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Old 24th November 2012, 11:57 AM   #1
StankApe
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The "I DETEST PHILOSOPHY" Thread

I hate philosophy. I think it's a waste of brain cells. it's long winded ,self important, pseudo-scientific postulating.

There is nothing more annoying to me than when some 23 yr old grad student starts rambling on about stuff in such an arcane and boring manner that it would put coffee to sleep.

I think it serves no purpose and it's sole existence is just to perpetuate more Philosophy Professors and hence, more philosophy students.

Those who can do science, do science, those who can't do science do the humanities, those who can't do the humanities do philosophy (and it makes them feel self important and smart! "look I just wrote a 300 page paper on my toes!") those who can't do philosophy are in comas.


bahh humbug.
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Old 24th November 2012, 12:02 PM   #2
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So, your philosophy of life is biased towards the hard sciences?
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Old 24th November 2012, 12:07 PM   #3
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I guess I should restructure what i wrote a bit.

I think people have a personal philosophy of life. I think that writing endless papers about them, and claiming they offer any insight into the physical world is claptrap.

I also detest the semantical wrangling and tentacular text that you read a paragraph 14 times in a row thinking that somehow you have had a stroke mid sentence only to realize "no, my wits are still dear, this just makes no sense whatsoever"

I dunno, when i read a thread where somebody starts trying to pass of some metaphysical mumbo jumbo or spirituality nonsense off as some scientific truth it rubs me the wrong way and I want to smite them.
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Old 24th November 2012, 12:23 PM   #4
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I pretty much agree. When someone starts going on and on about "consciousness" or "existence" etc etc etc. I want to slap them. It's a waste of time.

Funny too, I belong to a humanities group, (also I don't say if you can't do science you do humanities, but more if you don't like science as an academic pursuit you do humanities) anyways, the members go on and on and on at our traditional gatherings in a local Indian Restaurant, the owner walks by periodically grumbling how easy it is to have a discussion about the "human condition in the world' whilst sitting there with fat stuffed stomachs.

It's posturing. IMO
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Old 24th November 2012, 12:24 PM   #5
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Old 24th November 2012, 12:35 PM   #6
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Have you read any of these papers? Some of them are pretty good.

(edited to add an example: http://bjps.oxfordjournals.org/content/61/1/27.full )

Last edited by marplots; 24th November 2012 at 12:54 PM.
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Old 24th November 2012, 12:37 PM   #7
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A lot of philosophy is useless crap. But not all of it.

The scientific method and logic are products of philosophy. Aristotle was the guy who first started classifying logical fallacies.

No philosophy means no critical thinking. It is important not to throw the baby out with the bath water here. There is still work to be done in terms ethics and other branches of philosophy.

There are those here who attempt to separate out things like logic and reason. But they are a part of the whole. To make them separate from philosophy requires redefining philosophy into something different based on what is found objectionable about it.

Easier just to recognize that most of what comes out of it now is crap and that a lot of those pursuing it are wasting time and resources on BS like postmodernism rather than trying to solve actual problems. But even the crap needs some study or it will be repeated as if it were something new.
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Old 24th November 2012, 12:56 PM   #8
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I like philosophy, but not when you're talking to someone that is philosophy student. They try and make simple stuff sound complex.
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Old 24th November 2012, 12:57 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Edx View Post
I like philosophy, but not when you're talking to someone that is philosophy student. They try and make simple stuff sound complex.
I'm not sure which is more painful -- bad philosophy or bad physics.
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Old 24th November 2012, 01:34 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by StankApe View Post
I hate philosophy. I think it's a waste of brain cells. it's long winded ,self important, pseudo-scientific postulating.

There is nothing more annoying to me than when some 23 yr old grad student starts rambling on about stuff in such an arcane and boring manner that it would put coffee to sleep.

I think it serves no purpose and it's sole existence is just to perpetuate more Philosophy Professors and hence, more philosophy students.

Those who can do science, do science, those who can't do science do the humanities, those who can't do the humanities do philosophy (and it makes them feel self important and smart! "look I just wrote a 300 page paper on my toes!") those who can't do philosophy are in comas.


bahh humbug.
Though I repeat myself from many other threads here, Philosophy is essentially playing with words - assigning them meanings they do not really have in any provable way and then manipulating those words into a structure that looks (to many) powerful, but has no actual effect on anything in the real/physical world. Using logical steps initially based in philosophy has certainly helped in describing the real world but the real world is still there if no one is around to philosophize or theorize about it.
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Old 24th November 2012, 01:59 PM   #11
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Perhaps what I am actually saying is that I loathe philosophizing.

I'm a firm believer that if you can't say something in a paragraph you are talking out of you ass. There is no concept so complex that a cliff note version can't be expressed to a laymen in 4 or 5 sentences (give or take). Meandering mumbo jumbo drives me bonkers. (especially when it's used to attempt to turn physics or astronomy into Jesus )
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Old 24th November 2012, 02:03 PM   #12
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There is a lot of bad, obscurantist philosophy out there, but it's a mistake to call philosophy useless. Philosophy - done either by philosophers or scientists themselves - is fundamental for us to be able to ask the right questions and interpret the results we get in a logically consistent manner. For example, when we find differences between male and female brains, it's easy for people to jump to the conclusion that those are biological (as opposed to social) differences. What they fail to realize is that socially learned behavior is a function of the brain, and as such it has to manifest itself in physical structures. This error comes from the fact that many people still uphold a mind/body dichotomy, that they still believe in some sort of homunculus, even if they claim to be secular thinkers. Obviously, this is a very simple example - but without a history of philosophical thought, we'd have a very hard time realizing this.
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Old 24th November 2012, 03:05 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
I'm not sure which is more painful -- bad philosophy or bad physics.
When I was in college, majoring in psychology, I was taking a class during the summer. One of the townies taking the class and I were looking out at a beautiful, clear northern Illinois summer day. He turned to me and said "I feel the sky is blue."

At that point, I lost patience: "You feel good the sky is blue. You hate that the sky is blue because we need rain. Blue is your favorite color. The blue sky makes you look forward to going outside later today. You can feel a lot of things about the blue sky, but the physical fact is that the damned sky is blue."

His response: "Oh, you must be taking experimental psych..."
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Old 24th November 2012, 03:14 PM   #14
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Once again, Feynman FTW:

"Scientists are explorers. Philosophers are tourists."
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Old 24th November 2012, 03:47 PM   #15
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Philosophy has a place in our modern world. It should be the buffer between science and religion, helping both to better understand each other. It should be asking the hard questions about ethics and personal choice. It should be keeping pace with our fast paced technological development, helping the average man to understand their place in this rapidly changing world.

My frustration is not that philosophy has become useless. My frustration is that philosophers have made themselves useless and now the rest of us are having to pick up the slack.
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Old 24th November 2012, 04:19 PM   #16
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Maybe I have a skewed, overly broad idea of what constitutes "philosophy", but I have a hard time isolating science from it, or in fact anything else, including the notions expressed in the OP.

Also:
Originally Posted by Doubt
No philosophy means no critical thinking.
This.
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Old 24th November 2012, 04:20 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by SUSpilot View Post
When I was in college, majoring in psychology, I was taking a class during the summer. One of the townies taking the class and I were looking out at a beautiful, clear northern Illinois summer day. He turned to me and said "I feel the sky is blue."
Maybe he meant sad.
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Old 24th November 2012, 04:46 PM   #18
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I hate philosophy too:

Any series of events ending in death can be said to suck.
Life is a series of events ending in death.
∴ Life can be said to suck.

Oh great! Now life sucks! And all because of philosophy!!



P.S. Yes, I only got a C+ in Philosophy 101, what's that got to do with anything!
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Old 24th November 2012, 04:50 PM   #19
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Science, Rationalism, and Skepticism are philosophies.

There's a lot of muddled thinking that goes by the name philosophy too, but they're not the totality of it. I would say the biggest failing of modern philosophy is that it doesn't have any sort of policing. There's no requirement that the "theories" in the field to go through the sort of unsympathetic criticism and tearing apart that is necessary to prevent a field from becoming a breeding ground for crackpots with agendas.
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Old 24th November 2012, 04:57 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by StankApe View Post
Perhaps what I am actually saying is that I loathe philosophizing.

I'm a firm believer that if you can't say something in a paragraph you are talking out of you ass. There is no concept so complex that a cliff note version can't be expressed to a laymen in 4 or 5 sentences (give or take). Meandering mumbo jumbo drives me bonkers. (especially when it's used to attempt to turn physics or astronomy into Jesus )
Honestly I think you are blaming your lack of understanding on them writing in a way that is too sophisticated for you to understand.

I have a sneaking suspicion a post on this forum started it, and funny I read it aloud to hubby and we both understood it fine, even if the language was sophisticated. Dumbing down discussion is not a necessary part of "keeping it real."
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Old 24th November 2012, 05:09 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by truethat View Post
Honestly I think you are blaming your lack of understanding on them writing in a way that is too sophisticated for you to understand.

I have a sneaking suspicion a post on this forum started it, and funny I read it aloud to hubby and we both understood it fine, even if the language was sophisticated. Dumbing down discussion is not a necessary part of "keeping it real."
So what do you think he should do, then?
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Old 24th November 2012, 05:14 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by truethat View Post
Honestly I think you are blaming your lack of understanding on them writing in a way that is too sophisticated for you to understand.

I have a sneaking suspicion a post on this forum started it, and funny I read it aloud to hubby and we both understood it fine, even if the language was sophisticated. Dumbing down discussion is not a necessary part of "keeping it real."
Which post? I want to give it a read.
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Old 24th November 2012, 05:25 PM   #23
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Hard science can't figure out ethical and moral values, yet I'd claim that those are just as important as hard science. Anyone who just handwaves away the entirety of philosophy is not worth listening to.
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Old 24th November 2012, 05:29 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Weak Kitten View Post
Philosophy has a place in our modern world. It should be the buffer between science and religion, helping both to better understand each other. It should be asking the hard questions about ethics and personal choice. It should be keeping pace with our fast paced technological development, helping the average man to understand their place in this rapidly changing world.

My frustration is not that philosophy has become useless. My frustration is that philosophers have made themselves useless and now the rest of us are having to pick up the slack.
How about giving answers to the hard questions.
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Old 24th November 2012, 05:34 PM   #25
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To be fair, I think that its not only philosophers who undertake empty, pointless investigations. Sometimes scientists do it too. Does anyone know what possible benefits can there be in finding the highest prime number? I know prime numbers are used in cryptography. But I can't see why there is a need to get the highest one known. According to Wiki, that number has 13 million digits! Is anyone using it?

It is very possible that I'm mistaken, that there is some important work that needs that enormously long number. Does any JREFer know what that could be?
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Old 24th November 2012, 05:34 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by truethat View Post
Honestly I think you are blaming your lack of understanding on them writing in a way that is too sophisticated for you to understand.

I have a sneaking suspicion a post on this forum started it, and funny I read it aloud to hubby and we both understood it fine, even if the language was sophisticated. Dumbing down discussion is not a necessary part of "keeping it real."


LOL, I'm smarter than 99.9% of everyone in the world (well more intelligent, I'm a lazy drunk ,so maybe smart isn't the right word).

If one cannot formulate a concept with just a few sentences then I believe there is obscuration at work. (yes I just made that word up) .

I see the ramblings of philosophy to be people who aren't very bright trying to show everybody else how smart they are. Real smart people don't have to do that. (we are too busy drinking ourselves to death because we know that life is fleeting and empty).

Yes I'm an arrogant jerk. and no I don't care what you think of it. But don't talk down to me sister. You don't have a tower that high.
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Old 24th November 2012, 05:36 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
Hard science can't figure out ethical and moral values, yet I'd claim that those are just as important as hard science. Anyone who just handwaves away the entirety of philosophy is not worth listening to.
Feel free to explain to us how philosophy figures out ethical and moral values.
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Old 24th November 2012, 05:41 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by StankApe View Post
I hate philosophy. I think it's a waste of brain cells. it's long winded ,self important, pseudo-scientific postulating.
And why, pray tell is what you "think" important?

Originally Posted by StankApe View Post
I guess I should restructure what i wrote a bit.
That's where philosophy starts.

Originally Posted by truethat View Post
I pretty much agree. When someone starts going on and on about "consciousness" or "existence" etc etc etc. I want to slap them. It's a waste of time.
Yeah, what could be less interesting than consciousness or existence? Or so-called "consciousness" or "existence"? That's of no interest to anyone, right?

Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Philosophy is essentially playing with words - assigning them meanings they do not really have in any provable way and then manipulating those words into a structure that looks (to many) powerful, but has no actual effect on anything in the real/physical world.
I think you just made that up. Ironically.

Originally Posted by StankApe View Post
Perhaps what I am actually saying...
That's ironic too. Third post and you're still not sure what you're saying.
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Old 24th November 2012, 05:43 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by StankApe View Post
I see the ramblings of philosophy to be people who aren't very bright trying to show everybody else how smart they are.
Physician, heal thyself!
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Old 24th November 2012, 05:44 PM   #30
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I think I hate bad philosophy (or the misuse of philosophy) we've all read a thread on here where someone tries to spend 47 pages telling us all how we are really not here or that the universe is an illusion only there when we perceive it...etc

while I'm in a terrible mood I might as well gripe about some more things like this.
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Old 24th November 2012, 05:46 PM   #31
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I notice that the less intelligent here feel the need to make this a personal attack on me. )i guess it's because you have no other recourse but to call me stupid or point out a semantical misstep so as to claim some self serving victory.... it's pathetic)
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Old 24th November 2012, 05:48 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
Feel free to explain to us how philosophy figures out ethical and moral values.
It is part of the definition of philosophy. Wikipedia says: Philosophy is the study of general and fundamental problems, such as those connected with reality, existence, knowledge, values, reason, mind, and language. Philosophy is distinguished from other ways of addressing such problems by its critical, generally systematic approach and its reliance on rational argument.

So there you have it. The answer to your question is: By critical, generally systematic approach and rational argument. It can't be found with a microscope or through mathematics, but must be arrived at by reason. And, unlike in science, the answers can never be true or final.

How else do we figure out ethical and moral values?
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Old 24th November 2012, 05:49 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by StankApe View Post
LOL, I'm smarter than 99.9% of everyone in the world.
"I am wiser than this man, for neither of us appears to know anything great and good; but he fancies he knows something, although he knows nothing; whereas I, as I do not know anything, so I do not fancy I do. In this trifling particular, then, I appear to be wiser than he, because I do not fancy I know what I do not know." -Plato

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Old 24th November 2012, 05:53 PM   #34
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I didn't say I know more than 99% of the population. But when somebody talks down to me and says a statement was "too sophisticated" pardon me for getting a little aggravated. (pissed off is the actual phrase I would use)

3 things I hate in this world: Bama, being pinched and being talked down to....

Plus, it's such a cliche' to say "oh you don't like it cuz you don't understand it" what a load of bollocks!!! I don't like Nickleback, and I think I've got a pretty good handle on what they are about.
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Old 24th November 2012, 05:55 PM   #35
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I understand what StankApe is saying. A lot of the "great philosophers" talk about meaningless stuff. I mean stuff like "I think, therefore I am," is just crap. If you were in doubt of your own existence, Rene, then you've got some serious mental problems.

But philosophy, at it's most basic is "thinking about thinking". Science is a philosophy that says "evidence is the best way of evaluating what is true," and that's a philosophy to which I subscribe. The mental masturbation parts of philosophy, I can do without, but trying to understand why people think the way they do and what sorts of logic they employ is useful. Maybe not for its own sake, but because it is a tool (like logic) that helps you evaluate other aspects of reality.
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Old 24th November 2012, 06:03 PM   #36
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Tricky get's it.

I think any time spent pondering things that cannot possibly amount to anything other than "personal enlightenment" is a waste of time.

at least art has aesthetic value, most philosophy textbooks have more potential energy in the pages they are written on than in the text itself.

Maybe I'm just grumpy,sober and lashing out cuz I'm a friggin psychopath..... that's always an option
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Old 24th November 2012, 06:03 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Tricky View Post
I understand what StankApe is saying. A lot of the "great philosophers" talk about meaningless stuff. I mean stuff like "I think, therefore I am," is just crap. If you were in doubt of your own existence, Rene, then you've got some serious mental problems.
The point of the methodological doubt was to discover what kind of knowledge was incorrigible. Given that most kinds of knowledge could be doubted, what was there that couldn't be doubted? Rene Descartes thought that the cogito was one example of that. He is sometimes accredited with having begun modern epistemology and skepticism which I would have thought was a Good Thing, no?
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Old 24th November 2012, 06:04 PM   #38
jerrywayne
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Stank,

You ole philistine. I recommend Sophie's World by Jostein Gaarder. A fun read about philosophy.

Last edited by jerrywayne; 24th November 2012 at 06:11 PM.
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Old 24th November 2012, 06:06 PM   #39
angrysoba
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Originally Posted by StankApe View Post
I think any time spent pondering things that cannot possibly amount to anything other than "personal enlightenment" is a waste of time.
If you find personal enlightenment a waste of time, then there's probably very little anyone can do to convince you otherwise. But if you really believed then why would you be trying to solicit the opinions of others on any subject?
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Old 24th November 2012, 06:08 PM   #40
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I really am a grumpy old curmudgeon at 39 "it's new , I don't like it, burn it before it spreads to the children"......

hard living and an awareness of how stupid people are will make you this way. and a knack for making horrible decisions.
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