Proof of Life After Death!!

Robin1 · 26th November 2012, 04:14 AM

For all those seeking the "Truth " about life after death as well as the possibility of communicating with those who have crossed over please read about my experience with psychic medium John Edward. You must ALSO read all the comments to get more details and the full picture. Just google "Proof of life after death Yorktown" or here is the direct link:
yorktown-somers.patch.com/blog.../proof-of-life-after-death

dafydd · 26th November 2012, 04:15 AM

We all know the truth already.

Garrette · 26th November 2012, 04:18 AM

I suspect a drive-by spamming, but just in case:

No, thanks. I will read your links after you sufficiently summarize and discuss it here and read the resources we will provide you to describe confirmation bias, the tricks of mediums like John Edward, and other effects that mislead the unsuspecting into erroneous belief. I also ask that you explain how you, personally, distinguish between fake psychics (I assume you acknowledge that some exist) and the allegedly real psychics like John Edward.

Otherwise, not interested, thanks.

Robin1 · 26th November 2012, 04:22 AM

Considering the rapidity of your response I must guess you did not actually read the blog or any of the comments. The truth is... a completely closed-mind is a very dangerous mindset.

Robin1 · 26th November 2012, 04:33 AM

Wow, another completely closed-mind! "Not interested" in even reading my link? How does anyone expect to learn ANYTHING without being open to a new opinion and experience?

Resume · 26th November 2012, 04:34 AM

Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch

Considering the rapidity of your response I must guess you did not actually read the blog or any of the comments. The truth is... a completely closed-mind is a very dangerous mindset.

Have you ever heard of cold/hot reading? If I provide you links will you be open-minded enough to read them?

Garrette · 26th November 2012, 04:35 AM

I will say it again in a different way: If you wish to discuss your experience here, then discuss it here. If, after hearing your discussion I feel your argument may have merit, I will go to your link, but not before.

Or perhaps I could just post links to the Skeptic's Dictionary. Will your open mind read all of those before we discuss anything?

Garrette · 26th November 2012, 04:37 AM

Or to put it still another way:

This is a discussion forum, not a go-to-this-link-before-I-even-talk-about-the-specifics forum. And I will happily engage you in the proper definition of open vs. closed minded and whether you or I fit that definition more closely.

Jack by the hedge · 26th November 2012, 04:39 AM

Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch

How does anyone expect to learn ANYTHING without being open to a new opinion and experience?

Whatever made you imagine your opinion or experience was new?

I think you might benefit from doing a bit more reading around here before you criticize others for failing to read whatever material it was you linked to.

DallasDad · 26th November 2012, 04:40 AM

Here's the correct link: http://yorktown-somers.patch.com/blo...fe-after-death

No proofs at all there; not even anything resembling propositions and conclusions. "Evidence" is anecdotal, and shows an appalling ignorance of cold/hot reading techniques (not to mention all of physics).

Resume · 26th November 2012, 04:44 AM

Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch

Wow, another completely closed-mind! "Not interested" in even reading my link? How does anyone expect to learn ANYTHING without being open to a new opinion and experience?

Cold reading/ mentalism isn't exactly a novel technique.

Robin1 · 26th November 2012, 04:47 AM

Actually my MLS degree and experience working as a librarian the past 23 years is a good indicator that perhaps I already have done a lot of research about fake mediums and the ways they try to trick people. But then again if you had read my link and all the comments you would already know that. But listen I don't have time to beg anyone to read my link I just mistakenly thought the people on this site were seeking knowledge. Obviously I was wrong.

Sledge · 26th November 2012, 04:52 AM

Actually, we're seeking discussion. Got anything you'd like to discuss?

dafydd · 26th November 2012, 04:52 AM

Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch

Considering the rapidity of your response I must guess you did not actually read the blog or any of the comments. The truth is... a completely closed-mind is a very dangerous mindset.

We've read it all before. A short summary of your case will help. I have no desire to trawl through yet another woo blog.

Slowvehicle · 26th November 2012, 04:52 AM

Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch

Actually my MLS degree and experience working as a librarian the past 23 years is a good indicator that perhaps I already have done a lot of research about fake mediums and the ways they try to trick people. But then again if you had read my link and all the comments you would already know that. But listen I don't have time to beg anyone to read my link I just mistakenly thought the people on this site were seeking knowledge. Obviously I was wrong.

So,what is it about your new and novel experience that prevents you form explaining it here?
What is it that makes you convinced that this time, out of all of history, is the one time that parlor tricks are evidence of something unique, and supernatural?

Garrette · 26th November 2012, 04:53 AM

Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch

Actually my MLS degree and experience working as a librarian the past 23 years is a good indicator that perhaps I already have done a lot of research about fake mediums and the ways they try to trick people. But then again if you had read my link and all the comments you would already know that. But listen I don't have time to beg anyone to read my link I just mistakenly thought the people on this site were seeking knowledge. Obviously I was wrong.

No, you are not wrong, but you are mistaken in assuming that we haven't run across such things many, many times before or that there aren't people, like me, who used to believe as you do, or that we haven't studied the techniques of frauds like John Edward to the nth degree. And I call him a fraud intentionally. I've studied him enough, and other mediums enough, and other psychics enough, and other claims enough to know that he has done exactly nothing to prove his claims. I also know it, as do many others here, from our own performing experiences. There are magicians and mentalists on this forum; I am one (albeit an amateur), and convincing people I am psychic is easy.

You imply we are arrogant, but let me ask you this question: I assume you believe there are fake psychics out there; I further assume that you know those fake psychics have a lot of believers who are as adamant as you that the fake psychics are in fact legitimate. Why are they wrong and you are right? Is it merely that you are smart enough to tell the difference while they are not?

Roger Ramjets · 26th November 2012, 04:55 AM

Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch

Just google "Proof of life after death Yorktown"

OK...
Famed Psychic Medium Author John Edward Talks New Book, Supernatural and Family

Quote:

Robin Stettnisch
0 Fans
03:38 PM on 10/01/2012
Totally the real deal! Google......Proof of Life After Death Yorktown....to read about my experience with John Edward.

Oh no, stuck in a recursive loop!

Quote:

or here is the direct link:
yorktown-somers.patch.com/blog.../proof-of-life-after-death

Page Not Found

Sorry, we could not find the page you requested. Please check the URL and try again. Thanks!

Resume · 26th November 2012, 04:57 AM

Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch

Actually my MLS degree and experience working as a librarian the past 23 years is a good indicator that perhaps I already have done a lot of research about fake mediums and the ways they try to trick people. But then again if you had read my link and all the comments you would already know that. But listen I don't have time to beg anyone to read my link I just mistakenly thought the people on this site were seeking knowledge. Obviously I was wrong.

In the course of acquiring your education and vast experience did you ever run into the concept that though something may seem new and exciting to you, others before you have had the same experiences, but have done the appropriate research (with open minds) and through elimination of confirmation/affirmation biases, cognitive errors, etc., come to a quite different conclusion than yours?

These conclusions are provisional of course pending further data. Do you have any? How about a summary because your link is slow to load?

Jack by the hedge · 26th November 2012, 04:58 AM

OK. I read the link now. I think you let yourself be tricked.

And, by the way, I'm sorry for your loss.

Garrette · 26th November 2012, 05:02 AM

Since DallasDad posted it, I caved and clicked on the link. I got to the actual page, unlike Roger (sorry about that; not sure why it doesn't work for you).

DallasDad is correct. There is nothing at all convincing. I read the entire blog piece, which is short, and 30 or 40 of the comments; there are far too many comments to read them all without better reason to. Interestingly enough, many of the comments are by a skeptic (maybe two) pointing out how the blog isn't convincing. Robin's comments try to stick to the point, but a few other believer comments bring up the canards of not-using-our-whole-brain, and scientists-don't-know-everything.

Robin's two main points seem to be that JE knew that she had just bought a refrigerator and that JE mentioned a connection between her brother and Valerie Harper (the brother had tickets to that night's Broadway show starring Valerie Harper).

No transcript. No text of what JE actually said. A dismissal in the comments section of the skeptics who point out that finding things out about the sitter is easy and fast. And an admission in the comments section by Robin that she and her brother made the Valerie Harper connection after the show themselves; the significance apparently being missed.

Not convincing at all, I'm afraid.

Cainkane1 · 26th November 2012, 05:05 AM

Wheres Harry Houdini when you need him?

Resume · 26th November 2012, 05:09 AM

I just read your link and I am sorry for your loss. I think your memories of your father are far more valuable than the ones you allowed Edward to manufacture.

wollery · 26th November 2012, 05:10 AM

Let's see if I've got this straight.

Your father was standing next to John Edward telling him intimate details, and the best John Edward could offer was, "his name has an ST sound", which isn't a hit, because Salvatore doesn't have an ST sound, a new refrigerator, a brain problem, a Valerie Harper connection and a Pearl Harbour day connection.

If your father were actually standing there telling him things he wouldn't have offered things as "connections". He would have told you your time, date and place of birth, the make of new refrigerator, the row and seat your brother had for the show, and your father's full name and social security number.

Cayvmann · 26th November 2012, 05:12 AM

Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch

Actually my MLS degree and experience working as a librarian the past 23 years is a good indicator that perhaps I already have done a lot of research about fake mediums and the ways they try to trick people.

How exactly does having an MLS degree imply that you have studied any subject other than library science? There are many subjects in libraries. Are you saying that you have studied them all? Appeal to authority... And not a very good one

Jim_MDP · 26th November 2012, 05:15 AM

Originally Posted by Cainkane1

Wheres Harry Houdini when you need him?

Still dead I believe.

Garrette · 26th November 2012, 05:18 AM

I could be wrong, and I hope I am, but I suspect we will see little more of Robin. I suspect this is another case of a believer deciding that her perception of skeptics as bitter and nasty people with small intellects has been confirmed.

Slowvehicle · 26th November 2012, 05:22 AM

Originally Posted by Jim_MDP

Still dead I believe.

Ninnjaed! (darn it)

BNRT · 26th November 2012, 05:24 AM

Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch

Wow, another completely closed-mind! "Not interested" in even reading my link? How does anyone expect to learn ANYTHING without being open to a new opinion and experience?

Imagine it like this: let's say I have a housemate whi is a bit quirky. One day, he comes into my room, very excited, and says: "Quick, BNRT, come outside! The sky has turned green!" Of course, I don't believe him, as everything Iknow about the world tells me that the sky can't just turn green. But I keep an open mind and accompany my housemate outside, just in case he may be right. Naturally, the sky is as blue as ever.

Then a couple of days later, he is there again and very excited about the green sky. Still keeping an open mind, I again follow him outside, just in case he is right this time. But of course, the sky is still not green.

Now, if my housemate keeps declaring that the sky is green time after time, I might go outside with him one or two more times. After a while, though, it is clear that the sky never becomes green. Would it be close minded to one day say: "Look, you made this claim so often and were never right. Not a single time. I'm not going to waste any more time going outside with you to check if the sky is green. Next time, get me some evidence, like photo.

Agatha · 26th November 2012, 05:26 AM

Knowledge, yes. More evidence that John Edward is a fraud, not so much - most people already know that.

It would be interesting to see a transcript of this reading, rather than rely on your memory. It's always the case that when transcripts are available that it can be seen that the subject is providing information, not the so-called medium. The medium starts with guesses and uses cold reading techniques to refine the guess into something that the subject accepts as a hit. Sometimes the medium uses hot reading: googling people's names, talking with other mediums about repeat customers, even checking through rubbish bins. Those techniques need to be conclusively ruled out before anything supernatural is considered as an explanation.

Under what circumstances was this reading held? Was it a private reading, or at a show?

Nothing you've posted on your blog rules out cold or hot reading. For example, John Edward apparently told you that your father had a ST sound in his name (funny how these people only come up with sounds, do the spirits forget their own names), which you've counted as a hit, but in point of fact your father had both an S and a T in his name but not a ST sound. If your father's spirit was really in touch with John Edward, wouldn't he have just said "my name is Salvatore"? What JE was doing was trying to cover many names with the "ST sound" and then refining it as soon as you or someone else in the audience showed (even unconsciously) that this could apply to you.

I am sorry for the loss of your father. But I urge you not to waste your precious time and money on fake psychics. Your father lives on in your memory, and nobody can take that away. All this talk of refrigerators and theatre tickets is not the memory or the spirit of your father, it's the work of a well-organised, well-resourced conman who will use every trick in the book and then some to get people to keep coming to his shows.

Robin1 · 26th November 2012, 05:34 AM

Being that I know just as much if not more about the tricks fake mediums use the reason you should seriously examine (and you do need to read ALL the comments for the full picture) my experience with John Edward is the fact that I ACTUALLY had a reading with him whereas I'm guessing most here have not. I have the knowledge of what to look for in a fake medium AND all my experiences with mediums(lots... including James Van Praagh) and in my opinion they were all fake. Except for John Edward. You have the knowledge minus the actual personal experience with John Edward which makes me a more qualified judge.

TeapotCavalry · 26th November 2012, 05:35 AM

Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch

For all those seeking the "Truth " about life after death...

I find the use of scare quotes and capital T in 'truth' fittingly appropriate in this context.

Sledge · 26th November 2012, 05:40 AM

Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch

Being that I know just as much if not more about the tricks fake mediums use the reason you should seriously examine (and you do need to read ALL the comments for the full picture) my experience with John Edward is the fact that I ACTUALLY had a reading with him whereas I'm guessing most here have not. I have the knowledge of what to look for in a fake medium AND all my experiences with mediums(lots... including James Van Praagh) and in my opinion they were all fake. Except for John Edward. You have the knowledge minus the actual personal experience with John Edward which makes me a more qualified judge.

No.

Garrette · 26th November 2012, 05:44 AM

Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch

Being that I know just as much if not more about the tricks fake mediums use the reason you should seriously examine (and you do need to read ALL the comments for the full picture) my experience with John Edward is the fact that I ACTUALLY had a reading with him whereas I'm guessing most here have not. I have the knowledge of what to look for in a fake medium AND all my experiences with mediums(lots... including James Van Praagh) and in my opinion they were all fake. Except for John Edward. You have the knowledge minus the actual personal experience with John Edward which makes me a more qualified judge.

Then why are people wrong who believe in the mediums that you know are fake?
Are they simply less intelligent than you?

Further, if we find someone who actually had a John Edward reading and yet considers him a fraud, will that trump your belief? If not, why not?

Resume · 26th November 2012, 05:45 AM

Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch

Being that I know just as much if not more about the tricks fake mediums use the reason you should seriously examine (and you do need to read ALL the comments for the full picture) my experience with John Edward is the fact that I ACTUALLY had a reading with him whereas I'm guessing most here have not. I have the knowledge of what to look for in a fake medium AND all my experiences with mediums(lots... including James Van Praagh) and in my opinion they were all fake. Except for John Edward. You have the knowledge minus the actual personal experience with John Edward which makes me a more qualified judge.

That actually makes it worse given you're now invested in that reading being true. Each and every time you fail to apply critical thinking to the reading lends more credence to that event.

The fact that these folks make good livings leeching off the memories of passed loved ones makes monikers like "biggest douche in the universe" quite apt.

Octavo · 26th November 2012, 05:47 AM

Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch

Being that I know just as much if not more about the tricks fake mediums use the reason you should seriously examine (and you do need to read ALL the comments for the full picture) my experience with John Edward is the fact that I ACTUALLY had a reading with him whereas I'm guessing most here have not. I have the knowledge of what to look for in a fake medium AND all my experiences with mediums(lots... including James Van Praagh) and in my opinion they were all fake. Except for John Edward. You have the knowledge minus the actual personal experience with John Edward which makes me a more qualified judge.

Well, that changes things! You've absolutely convinced me. JE is the real deal. Randi better watch out.

Robin1 · 26th November 2012, 05:50 AM

Communicating with those who have crossed over is not the same as talking to someone on your iphone with a crystal clear connection...and that has been explained in more detail in the comment section of my blog...which is why I will respectfully ask you and all on this thread to ACTUALLY read my blog and ALL the comments because many if not all of your points have ALREADY been addressed there. Then perhaps we can discuss and cover some new ground.

Resume · 26th November 2012, 05:50 AM

Originally Posted by Garrette

Then why are people wrong who believe in the mediums that you know are fake?
Are they simply less intelligent than you?

Further, if we find someone who actually had a John Edward reading and yet considers him a fraud, will that trump your belief? If not, why not?

There's a good P&T BS episode about psychics; in one scene a man realizes that a reading he received about his lost mom from Rosemary Altea was, well, BS.

It's a good touch when Mark Edward points out the tricks in Altea's little schtick.

Garrette · 26th November 2012, 05:50 AM

My previous post is the one I would most like answered, but I am also interested to hear your expertise regarding the tricks of psychic frauds, Robin. What studies and experience have rendered you impervious to fake mediums?

Robin1 · 26th November 2012, 05:53 AM

If I am so personally invested and so then cannot use my critical thinking skills properly why then do I believe that ALL the other mediums I've been to are fakes?

Resume · 26th November 2012, 05:53 AM

Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch

Communicating with those who have crossed over is not the same as talking to someone on your iphone with a crystal clear connection...

How do you know? How does anyone know?

26th November 2012, 04:14 AM	#1
Robin1 Suspended Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 610	Proof of Life After Death!! For all those seeking the "Truth " about life after death as well as the possibility of communicating with those who have crossed over please read about my experience with psychic medium John Edward. You must ALSO read all the comments to get more details and the full picture. Just google "Proof of life after death Yorktown" or here is the direct link: yorktown-somers.patch.com/blog.../proof-of-life-after-death
Robin1 Suspended Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 610

26th November 2012, 04:15 AM	#2
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,441	We all know the truth already.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

26th November 2012, 04:18 AM	#3
Garrette Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 10,540	I suspect a drive-by spamming, but just in case: No, thanks. I will read your links after you sufficiently summarize and discuss it here and read the resources we will provide you to describe confirmation bias, the tricks of mediums like John Edward, and other effects that mislead the unsuspecting into erroneous belief. I also ask that you explain how you, personally, distinguish between fake psychics (I assume you acknowledge that some exist) and the allegedly real psychics like John Edward. Otherwise, not interested, thanks.
	__________________ My kids still love me.

26th November 2012, 04:22 AM	#4
Robin1 Suspended Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 610	Considering the rapidity of your response I must guess you did not actually read the blog or any of the comments. The truth is... a completely closed-mind is a very dangerous mindset.
Robin1 Suspended Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 610

26th November 2012, 04:33 AM	#5
Robin1 Suspended Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 610	Wow, another completely closed-mind! "Not interested" in even reading my link? How does anyone expect to learn ANYTHING without being open to a new opinion and experience?
Robin1 Suspended Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 610

26th November 2012, 04:34 AM	#6
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,012	Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch Considering the rapidity of your response I must guess you did not actually read the blog or any of the comments. The truth is... a completely closed-mind is a very dangerous mindset. Have you ever heard of cold/hot reading? If I provide you links will you be open-minded enough to read them?
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,012

26th November 2012, 04:35 AM	#7
Garrette Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 10,540	I will say it again in a different way: If you wish to discuss your experience here, then discuss it here. If, after hearing your discussion I feel your argument may have merit, I will go to your link, but not before. Or perhaps I could just post links to the Skeptic's Dictionary. Will your open mind read all of those before we discuss anything?
	__________________ My kids still love me. Last edited by Garrette; 26th November 2012 at 04:36 AM. Reason: To remove comments that were misdirected because I missed the post before mine.

26th November 2012, 04:37 AM	#8
Garrette Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 10,540	Or to put it still another way: This is a discussion forum, not a go-to-this-link-before-I-even-talk-about-the-specifics forum. And I will happily engage you in the proper definition of open vs. closed minded and whether you or I fit that definition more closely.
	__________________ My kids still love me.

26th November 2012, 04:39 AM	#9
Jack by the hedge Safely Ignored Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5,402	Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch How does anyone expect to learn ANYTHING without being open to a new opinion and experience? Whatever made you imagine your opinion or experience was new? I think you might benefit from doing a bit more reading around here before you criticize others for failing to read whatever material it was you linked to.

26th November 2012, 04:40 AM	#10
DallasDad Muse Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 688	Here's the correct link: http://yorktown-somers.patch.com/blo...fe-after-death No proofs at all there; not even anything resembling propositions and conclusions. "Evidence" is anecdotal, and shows an appalling ignorance of cold/hot reading techniques (not to mention all of physics).
DallasDad Muse Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 688	Last edited by DallasDad; 26th November 2012 at 04:41 AM.

26th November 2012, 04:44 AM	#11
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,012	Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch Wow, another completely closed-mind! "Not interested" in even reading my link? How does anyone expect to learn ANYTHING without being open to a new opinion and experience? Cold reading/ mentalism isn't exactly a novel technique.
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,012

26th November 2012, 04:47 AM	#12
Robin1 Suspended Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 610	Actually my MLS degree and experience working as a librarian the past 23 years is a good indicator that perhaps I already have done a lot of research about fake mediums and the ways they try to trick people. But then again if you had read my link and all the comments you would already know that. But listen I don't have time to beg anyone to read my link I just mistakenly thought the people on this site were seeking knowledge. Obviously I was wrong.
Robin1 Suspended Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 610

26th November 2012, 04:52 AM	#13
Sledge Grammaton Cleric Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Swingin' on a star Posts: 7,123	Actually, we're seeking discussion. Got anything you'd like to discuss?
	__________________ "The perfect haiku would have just two syllables: Airwolf" ~ Ernest Cline "Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop" ~ Dara O'Briain.

26th November 2012, 04:52 AM	#15
Slowvehicle Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: ...not where I seemed, nor was calculated to be...but no-one need worry... Posts: 2,123	Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch Actually my MLS degree and experience working as a librarian the past 23 years is a good indicator that perhaps I already have done a lot of research about fake mediums and the ways they try to trick people. But then again if you had read my link and all the comments you would already know that. But listen I don't have time to beg anyone to read my link I just mistakenly thought the people on this site were seeking knowledge. Obviously I was wrong. So,what is it about your new and novel experience that prevents you form explaining it here? What is it that makes you convinced that this time, out of all of history, is the one time that parlor tricks are evidence of something unique, and supernatural?
	__________________ "Science is a wall against which we crash all of our ideas. The ones that survive are the ones we keep, but they are still subjected to periodic crash tests." -Foster Zygote "And in science the default is that you're wrong. EVERYONE is wrong. You only can be not wrong if you have evidence to back up your claim." -Dinwar "That is not my circus; those are not my monkeys." -Howard Tayler

26th November 2012, 04:53 AM	#16
Garrette Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 10,540	Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch Actually my MLS degree and experience working as a librarian the past 23 years is a good indicator that perhaps I already have done a lot of research about fake mediums and the ways they try to trick people. But then again if you had read my link and all the comments you would already know that. But listen I don't have time to beg anyone to read my link I just mistakenly thought the people on this site were seeking knowledge. Obviously I was wrong. No, you are not wrong, but you are mistaken in assuming that we haven't run across such things many, many times before or that there aren't people, like me, who used to believe as you do, or that we haven't studied the techniques of frauds like John Edward to the nth degree. And I call him a fraud intentionally. I've studied him enough, and other mediums enough, and other psychics enough, and other claims enough to know that he has done exactly nothing to prove his claims. I also know it, as do many others here, from our own performing experiences. There are magicians and mentalists on this forum; I am one (albeit an amateur), and convincing people I am psychic is easy. You imply we are arrogant, but let me ask you this question: I assume you believe there are fake psychics out there; I further assume that you know those fake psychics have a lot of believers who are as adamant as you that the fake psychics are in fact legitimate. Why are they wrong and you are right? Is it merely that you are smart enough to tell the difference while they are not?
	__________________ My kids still love me.

26th November 2012, 04:55 AM	#17
Roger Ramjets Muse Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 703	Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch Just google "Proof of life after death Yorktown" OK... Famed Psychic Medium Author John Edward Talks New Book, Supernatural and Family Quote: Robin Stettnisch 0 Fans 03:38 PM on 10/01/2012 Totally the real deal! Google......Proof of Life After Death Yorktown....to read about my experience with John Edward. Oh no, stuck in a recursive loop! Quote: or here is the direct link: yorktown-somers.patch.com/blog.../proof-of-life-after-death Page Not Found Sorry, we could not find the page you requested. Please check the URL and try again. Thanks!
Roger Ramjets Muse Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 703	__________________ We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good.

26th November 2012, 04:57 AM	#18
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,012	Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch Actually my MLS degree and experience working as a librarian the past 23 years is a good indicator that perhaps I already have done a lot of research about fake mediums and the ways they try to trick people. But then again if you had read my link and all the comments you would already know that. But listen I don't have time to beg anyone to read my link I just mistakenly thought the people on this site were seeking knowledge. Obviously I was wrong. In the course of acquiring your education and vast experience did you ever run into the concept that though something may seem new and exciting to you, others before you have had the same experiences, but have done the appropriate research (with open minds) and through elimination of confirmation/affirmation biases, cognitive errors, etc., come to a quite different conclusion than yours? These conclusions are provisional of course pending further data. Do you have any? How about a summary because your link is slow to load?
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,012	Last edited by Resume; 26th November 2012 at 04:58 AM.

26th November 2012, 04:58 AM	#19
Jack by the hedge Safely Ignored Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5,402	OK. I read the link now. I think you let yourself be tricked. And, by the way, I'm sorry for your loss.

26th November 2012, 05:02 AM	#20
Garrette Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 10,540	Since DallasDad posted it, I caved and clicked on the link. I got to the actual page, unlike Roger (sorry about that; not sure why it doesn't work for you). DallasDad is correct. There is nothing at all convincing. I read the entire blog piece, which is short, and 30 or 40 of the comments; there are far too many comments to read them all without better reason to. Interestingly enough, many of the comments are by a skeptic (maybe two) pointing out how the blog isn't convincing. Robin's comments try to stick to the point, but a few other believer comments bring up the canards of not-using-our-whole-brain, and scientists-don't-know-everything. Robin's two main points seem to be that JE knew that she had just bought a refrigerator and that JE mentioned a connection between her brother and Valerie Harper (the brother had tickets to that night's Broadway show starring Valerie Harper). No transcript. No text of what JE actually said. A dismissal in the comments section of the skeptics who point out that finding things out about the sitter is easy and fast. And an admission in the comments section by Robin that she and her brother made the Valerie Harper connection after the show themselves; the significance apparently being missed. Not convincing at all, I'm afraid.
	__________________ My kids still love me.

26th November 2012, 05:05 AM	#21
Cainkane1 Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The great American southeast Posts: 7,186	Wheres Harry Houdini when you need him?
	__________________ If at first you don't succeed try try again. Then if you fail to succeed to Hell with that. Try something else.

26th November 2012, 05:09 AM	#22
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,012	I just read your link and I am sorry for your loss. I think your memories of your father are far more valuable than the ones you allowed Edward to manufacture.
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,012

26th November 2012, 05:10 AM	#23
wollery Protected by Samurai Hedgehogs! TLA Winner Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Land of Eternal Hope Posts: 10,308	Let's see if I've got this straight. Your father was standing next to John Edward telling him intimate details, and the best John Edward could offer was, "his name has an ST sound", which isn't a hit, because Salvatore doesn't have an ST sound, a new refrigerator, a brain problem, a Valerie Harper connection and a Pearl Harbour day connection. If your father were actually standing there telling him things he wouldn't have offered things as "connections". He would have told you your time, date and place of birth, the make of new refrigerator, the row and seat your brother had for the show, and your father's full name and social security number.
	__________________ "You're a sick SOB. You know that, Wollery?" - Roadtoad "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin

26th November 2012, 05:12 AM	#24
Cayvmann Muse Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 578	Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch Actually my MLS degree and experience working as a librarian the past 23 years is a good indicator that perhaps I already have done a lot of research about fake mediums and the ways they try to trick people. How exactly does having an MLS degree imply that you have studied any subject other than library science? There are many subjects in libraries. Are you saying that you have studied them all? Appeal to authority... And not a very good one
Cayvmann Muse Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 578

26th November 2012, 05:15 AM	#25
Jim_MDP Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: On the road, if you see this RV... RUN! Posts: 2,562	Originally Posted by Cainkane1 Wheres Harry Houdini when you need him? Still dead I believe.
	__________________ ---------------------- "Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000.

26th November 2012, 05:18 AM	#26
Garrette Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 10,540	I could be wrong, and I hope I am, but I suspect we will see little more of Robin. I suspect this is another case of a believer deciding that her perception of skeptics as bitter and nasty people with small intellects has been confirmed.
	__________________ My kids still love me.

26th November 2012, 05:22 AM	#27
Slowvehicle Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: ...not where I seemed, nor was calculated to be...but no-one need worry... Posts: 2,123	Originally Posted by Jim_MDP Still dead I believe. Ninnjaed! (darn it)
	__________________ "Science is a wall against which we crash all of our ideas. The ones that survive are the ones we keep, but they are still subjected to periodic crash tests." -Foster Zygote "And in science the default is that you're wrong. EVERYONE is wrong. You only can be not wrong if you have evidence to back up your claim." -Dinwar "That is not my circus; those are not my monkeys." -Howard Tayler

26th November 2012, 05:24 AM	#28
BNRT Muse Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 548	Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch Wow, another completely closed-mind! "Not interested" in even reading my link? How does anyone expect to learn ANYTHING without being open to a new opinion and experience? Imagine it like this: let's say I have a housemate whi is a bit quirky. One day, he comes into my room, very excited, and says: "Quick, BNRT, come outside! The sky has turned green!" Of course, I don't believe him, as everything Iknow about the world tells me that the sky can't just turn green. But I keep an open mind and accompany my housemate outside, just in case he may be right. Naturally, the sky is as blue as ever. Then a couple of days later, he is there again and very excited about the green sky. Still keeping an open mind, I again follow him outside, just in case he is right this time. But of course, the sky is still not green. Now, if my housemate keeps declaring that the sky is green time after time, I might go outside with him one or two more times. After a while, though, it is clear that the sky never becomes green. Would it be close minded to one day say: "Look, you made this claim so often and were never right. Not a single time. I'm not going to waste any more time going outside with you to check if the sky is green. Next time, get me some evidence, like photo.

26th November 2012, 05:26 AM	#29
Agatha Winking at the Moon Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: UK Posts: 4,214	Knowledge, yes. More evidence that John Edward is a fraud, not so much - most people already know that. It would be interesting to see a transcript of this reading, rather than rely on your memory. It's always the case that when transcripts are available that it can be seen that the subject is providing information, not the so-called medium. The medium starts with guesses and uses cold reading techniques to refine the guess into something that the subject accepts as a hit. Sometimes the medium uses hot reading: googling people's names, talking with other mediums about repeat customers, even checking through rubbish bins. Those techniques need to be conclusively ruled out before anything supernatural is considered as an explanation. Under what circumstances was this reading held? Was it a private reading, or at a show? Nothing you've posted on your blog rules out cold or hot reading. For example, John Edward apparently told you that your father had a ST sound in his name (funny how these people only come up with sounds, do the spirits forget their own names), which you've counted as a hit, but in point of fact your father had both an S and a T in his name but not a ST sound. If your father's spirit was really in touch with John Edward, wouldn't he have just said "my name is Salvatore"? What JE was doing was trying to cover many names with the "ST sound" and then refining it as soon as you or someone else in the audience showed (even unconsciously) that this could apply to you. I am sorry for the loss of your father. But I urge you not to waste your precious time and money on fake psychics. Your father lives on in your memory, and nobody can take that away. All this talk of refrigerators and theatre tickets is not the memory or the spirit of your father, it's the work of a well-organised, well-resourced conman who will use every trick in the book and then some to get people to keep coming to his shows.
	__________________ People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... timey wimey... stuff.

26th November 2012, 05:34 AM	#30
Robin1 Suspended Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 610	Being that I know just as much if not more about the tricks fake mediums use the reason you should seriously examine (and you do need to read ALL the comments for the full picture) my experience with John Edward is the fact that I ACTUALLY had a reading with him whereas I'm guessing most here have not. I have the knowledge of what to look for in a fake medium AND all my experiences with mediums(lots... including James Van Praagh) and in my opinion they were all fake. Except for John Edward. You have the knowledge minus the actual personal experience with John Edward which makes me a more qualified judge.
Robin1 Suspended Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 610

26th November 2012, 05:35 AM	#31
TeapotCavalry Thinker Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Estonia Posts: 211	Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch For all those seeking the "Truth " about life after death... I find the use of scare quotes and capital T in 'truth' fittingly appropriate in this context.
	__________________ "As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough."

26th November 2012, 05:40 AM	#32
Sledge Grammaton Cleric Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Swingin' on a star Posts: 7,123	Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch Being that I know just as much if not more about the tricks fake mediums use the reason you should seriously examine (and you do need to read ALL the comments for the full picture) my experience with John Edward is the fact that I ACTUALLY had a reading with him whereas I'm guessing most here have not. I have the knowledge of what to look for in a fake medium AND all my experiences with mediums(lots... including James Van Praagh) and in my opinion they were all fake. Except for John Edward. You have the knowledge minus the actual personal experience with John Edward which makes me a more qualified judge. No.
	__________________ "The perfect haiku would have just two syllables: Airwolf" ~ Ernest Cline "Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop" ~ Dara O'Briain.

26th November 2012, 05:44 AM	#33
Garrette Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 10,540	Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch Being that I know just as much if not more about the tricks fake mediums use the reason you should seriously examine (and you do need to read ALL the comments for the full picture) my experience with John Edward is the fact that I ACTUALLY had a reading with him whereas I'm guessing most here have not. I have the knowledge of what to look for in a fake medium AND all my experiences with mediums(lots... including James Van Praagh) and in my opinion they were all fake. Except for John Edward. You have the knowledge minus the actual personal experience with John Edward which makes me a more qualified judge. Then why are people wrong who believe in the mediums that you know are fake? Are they simply less intelligent than you? Further, if we find someone who actually had a John Edward reading and yet considers him a fraud, will that trump your belief? If not, why not?
	__________________ My kids still love me.

26th November 2012, 05:45 AM	#34
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,012	Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch Being that I know just as much if not more about the tricks fake mediums use the reason you should seriously examine (and you do need to read ALL the comments for the full picture) my experience with John Edward is the fact that I ACTUALLY had a reading with him whereas I'm guessing most here have not. I have the knowledge of what to look for in a fake medium AND all my experiences with mediums(lots... including James Van Praagh) and in my opinion they were all fake. Except for John Edward. You have the knowledge minus the actual personal experience with John Edward which makes me a more qualified judge. That actually makes it worse given you're now invested in that reading being true. Each and every time you fail to apply critical thinking to the reading lends more credence to that event. The fact that these folks make good livings leeching off the memories of passed loved ones makes monikers like "biggest douche in the universe" quite apt.
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,012

26th November 2012, 05:47 AM	#35
Octavo Available Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Cape Town Posts: 841	Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch Being that I know just as much if not more about the tricks fake mediums use the reason you should seriously examine (and you do need to read ALL the comments for the full picture) my experience with John Edward is the fact that I ACTUALLY had a reading with him whereas I'm guessing most here have not. I have the knowledge of what to look for in a fake medium AND all my experiences with mediums(lots... including James Van Praagh) and in my opinion they were all fake. Except for John Edward. You have the knowledge minus the actual personal experience with John Edward which makes me a more qualified judge. Well, that changes things! You've absolutely convinced me. JE is the real deal. Randi better watch out.

26th November 2012, 05:50 AM	#36
Robin1 Suspended Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 610	Communicating with those who have crossed over is not the same as talking to someone on your iphone with a crystal clear connection...and that has been explained in more detail in the comment section of my blog...which is why I will respectfully ask you and all on this thread to ACTUALLY read my blog and ALL the comments because many if not all of your points have ALREADY been addressed there. Then perhaps we can discuss and cover some new ground.
Robin1 Suspended Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 610