White guy shoots (and kills) black teen over loud music

C_Felix · 27th November 2012, 03:17 PM

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,4320738.story

DreamingNaiad · 27th November 2012, 03:35 PM

I don't think race had anything to do with it. But on the face of it this seems quite similar to the Trayvon case. Idiot initiates situation then claims he was tewwified and had to start shooting.

All he had to do was drive away. Or keep his mouth shut in the first place.

mikedenk · 27th November 2012, 03:43 PM

I live near a moderately-traveled road. Late at night, like clockwork, the morons start driving by with their music turned up to window-shaking levels. I have to admit to more than a couple of occasions where I hoped to hear a screeching of brakes, a loud thud, then an explosion.

And get off my lawn.

But anyways... what is the point here? Is this guy a racist? Or is this another Trayvon debacle, where we find out that the poor innocent victim was actual in the midst of a vicious attack? We need Reverend Al and the other race hustlers to get down there and give us the real story.

Modified · 27th November 2012, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by mikedenk

I live near a moderately-traveled road. Late at night, like clockwork, the morons start driving by with their music turned up to window-shaking levels.

If it makes you feel any better, most of those morons will be nearly deaf by the time they're 50.

WildCat · 27th November 2012, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by DreamingNaiad

I don't think race had anything to do with it. But on the face of it this seems quite similar to the Trayvon case.

No, it has almost no similarities to the Trayvon Martin case.

DreamingNaiad · 27th November 2012, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by WildCat

No, it has almost no similarities to the Trayvon Martin case.

I meant superficially. A grown man confronts teens, gets spooked (I don't know how since it doesn't say they were armed or that they left the car) and shoots.

I'm sure that when more details come out it will seem very different. I just hope it doesn't start any race nonsense. Al Sharpton ****** me off more than any man alive.

fuelair · 27th November 2012, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by DreamingNaiad

I meant superficially. A grown man confronts teens, gets spooked (I don't know how since it doesn't say they were armed or that they left the car) and shoots.

I'm sure that when more details come out it will seem very different. I just hope it doesn't start any race nonsense. Al Sharpton ****** me off more than any man alive.

My first thought every time I hear that name is Tawana Brawley.

For those who don't know Al except from his recent stuff: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawana_...pe_allegations

Mudcat · 27th November 2012, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by Rashmi

I'm black. I Farkin' hate Rap Music.

That said, I enjoy a nice merlot with an aged cheese.

Also, I do fancy oatmeal with peanut butter and raspberry jam.....nom, nom.

I'm not black and I detest rap music, that aside I don't see how anyone can listen to any kind of music at the volumes that they do. Don't they miss out on a lot of the nuisances by doing so? Doesn't that hurt to be sitting so close to a source of sound at that volume? Don't they care at all about going deaf before they reach fifty?

anglolawyer · 27th November 2012, 06:00 PM

Not racist? LOL

Hey! Great idea. Give Americans more guns!

GrouchoMarxist · 27th November 2012, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by Rashmi

I'm black. I Farkin' hate Rap Music.

That said, I enjoy a nice merlot with an aged cheese.

Also, I do fancy oatmeal with peanut butter and raspberry jam.....nom, nom.

I didn't see anything in the article about what kind of music they were listening to.

triforcharity · 27th November 2012, 06:15 PM

Sounds like a case of cold blooded murder to me.

He left the scene, then left town. This stinks of murder.

IF self defense, he should have stayed at the scene, and called the police.

triforcharity · 27th November 2012, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by anglolawyer

Not racist? LOL

Hey! Great idea. Give Americans more guns!

Yepo! Don't like it? Don't come here, or do your best to legally come take mine.

FenerFan · 27th November 2012, 06:23 PM

"Please not Florida again.....Damn!"

applecorped · 27th November 2012, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by DreamingNaiad

I don't think race had anything to do with it. But .........

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Cainkane1 · 27th November 2012, 06:45 PM

Some years ago a man white guy shot a white teen for walking on his yard. People get mad and sometimes the anger is lethal.

anglolawyer · 27th November 2012, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by triforcharity

Yepo! Don't like it? Don't come here, or do your best to legally come take mine.

Don't get me wrong. I wish I had a gun, just so long as no one else did.

FenerFan · 27th November 2012, 07:06 PM

http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/state/j...usic-complaint

Dunn is claiming self-defense. He stated that he saw a gun barrel and was verbally threatened. Also, he fled the scene because he feared that those he shot at were gang members and other gang members would show up. Dunn and his girlfriend then spent the night at a local hotel. He was later arrested at his home.

BStrong · 27th November 2012, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by triforcharity

Sounds like a case of cold blooded murder to me.

He left the scene, then left town. This stinks of murder.

IF self defense, he should have stayed at the scene, and called the police.

I don't know anymore about this incident than anybody else that has read the news reports, but from my training and experience there can be individual incidents involving the use of force by a civilian where leaving the scene of a shooting incident and immediately contacting LE may be the best idea from the standpoint of de escalating a situation that has already turned lethal.

This incident and the behavior of the shooter as reported doesn't fit into that narrow parameter.

RedRatSnake · 27th November 2012, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by GrouchoMarxist

I didn't see anything in the article about what kind of music they were listening to.

Well he is Black. So I say most likely ~ RATT or Quiet Riot, Maybe! kinda? ~ Ok Rap with some Thumpin is most likely it.

kerikiwi · 27th November 2012, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by Mudcat

Don't they miss out on a lot of the nuisances by doing so?

Miss out on the nuisances? They are the nuisances.

(I know, I know, you meant nuances, but some typos are very apt)

zeggman · 27th November 2012, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by FenerFan

"Please not Florida again.....Damn!"

It's like South Carolina, only more South.

johnny karate · 27th November 2012, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by mikedenk

But anyways... what is the point here? Is this guy a racist?

Yes:

Originally Posted by WPTV

Lemonidis said her client and his girlfriend left the scene after the shooting, fearing that they had encountered gang members and that more would follow.

Originally Posted by mikedenk

Or is this another Trayvon debacle, where we find out that the poor innocent victim was actual in the midst of a vicious attack?

You should probably read up on that case. Outside of the word of an accused murderer, no evidence of a "vicious attack" exists.

And the most insane part:

Originally Posted by WPTV

Eight or nine shots were fired at the teens' car, the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office statement added.

There were no guns found inside the teens' car, the statement said.

I'm now sure how any reasonable person can say with a straight face that firing eight times at an unarmed kid sitting in a car is an act of self-defense.

Ferguson · 27th November 2012, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by Mudcat

I'm not black and I detest rap music, that aside I don't see how anyone can listen to any kind of music at the volumes that they do. Don't they miss out on a lot of the nuisances by doing so? Doesn't that hurt to be sitting so close to a source of sound at that volume? Don't they care at all about going deaf before they reach fifty?

It's not about enjoyment, it's about showing off how loud (and by implication, how expensive) your audio system is.

WildCat · 27th November 2012, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by FenerFan

http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/state/j...usic-complaint

Dunn is claiming self-defense. He stated that he saw a gun barrel and was verbally threatened. Also, he fled the scene because he feared that those he shot at were gang members and other gang members would show up. Dunn and his girlfriend then spent the night at a local hotel. He was later arrested at his home.

Uh, yeah, I guess he just forgot to call the police.

Ferguson · 27th November 2012, 09:08 PM

Looks pretty damning for Dunn.
Not much detail, though. A few paraphrased sentences from a police statement and no witnesses quoted. It's annoying that there's no quotes or information from the other teenagers that were in the car with the victim, or the witnesses that reported the shooting, as to how the confrontation unfolded.

Giz · 27th November 2012, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by WildCat

Uh, yeah, I guess he just forgot to call the police.

Yeah, flee the scene AND not call police... not a very puzzling whodunnit

FenerFan · 27th November 2012, 10:07 PM

Here's a link to a extended news report from a local Jacksonville station. It has a few details that weren't mentioned in the other linked articles. The gun Dunn claimed to have seen was a shotgun. Also, Dunn's lawyer said he didn't call the police because, "His understanding was that he had only shot at the vehicle, not at anybody and that he was also concerned with leaving the area immediately because he didn't know if these were gang members..." according to his lawyer Robin Lemonidis.
Also, she claims that Dunn was "in the process of turning himself in," when he was arrested at his home. The distance from Jacksonville to his hometown of Satellite Beach is about 175 miles.
It's a pretty complete report as things stand now.

http://www.news4jax.com/news/Lawyer-...w/-/index.html

What do you think about his lawyer? To me, she does not come across very well at all. Not a good idea to mention her client has used and owned since he was in the third grade, in my opinion. She stressed his knowledge of guns, maybe to bolster the claim that he saw a shotgun. On the other hand, some would see him as a over-reactive gun nut.
It doesn't seem good for Dunn as no shotgun or other weapon has been found. Also, it seems ridiculous to me that someone would claim they didn't call the police because ,"Hey, I only shot at a car...with people in it...not at the people, just the car." I can see being scared and wanting to get out of the area because maybe of possible gang involvement. Fine, you feel safe in another location and now you can call the cops. A knowledgable gun owner (as apparently Dunn is, according to his attorney) would have to know the seriousness of shooting 8 or 9 times at a vehicle in a gas station parking lot.

Foolmewunz · 27th November 2012, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by FenerFan

http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/state/j...usic-complaint

Dunn is claiming self-defense. He stated that he saw a gun barrel and was verbally threatened. Also, he fled the scene because he feared that those he shot at were gang members and other gang members would show up. Dunn and his girlfriend then spent the night at a local hotel. He was later arrested at his home.

Speaking of "nuances"....

I don't think it was your intention to make it look worse, but you make it sound like they holed up in a hotel for safety. They stayed in the hotel because that's where they were staying. They were in Jacksonville for his son's wedding. He's not local.

Now, that doesn't improve the story. It might make it worse. When they say he was "later arrested at home", they leave out that home was 200 miles away. He and the girlfriend went back to their hotel and stayed the evening and then he drove 200 miles to Satellite Beach. So, he drove away to avoid gang retaliation, stayed overnight in a local hotel and was no retaliatified, then drove 200 miles during which he was also not retaliated against, and then "was arrested".... e.g. he did not turn himself in.

I'd like to know more of the other side of this story. How'd they catch him? What do the eyewitnesses say? When was he intending to come forward? Did he, perhaps, come forward? All I can find on this is two articles from Florida newspapers - that have been repeated around the country. Looking forward to better/fuller versions of the story.

FenerFan · 27th November 2012, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

Speaking of "nuances"....

I don't think it was your intention to make it look worse, but you make it sound like they holed up in a hotel for safety. They stayed in the hotel because that's where they were staying. They were in Jacksonville for his son's wedding. He's not local.

Now, that doesn't improve the story. It might make it worse. When they say he was "later arrested at home", they leave out that home was 200 miles away. He and the girlfriend went back to their hotel and stayed the evening and then he drove 200 miles to Satellite Beach. So, he drove away to avoid gang retaliation, stayed overnight in a local hotel and was no retaliatified, then drove 200 miles during which he was also not retaliated against, and then "was arrested".... e.g. he did not turn himself in.

I'd like to know more of the other side of this story. How'd they catch him? What do the eyewitnesses say? When was he intending to come forward? Did he, perhaps, come forward? All I can find on this is two articles from Florida newspapers - that have been repeated around the country. Looking forward to better/fuller versions of the story.

You are correct, it does come across as if I was saying they scurried off and hid away in a hotel. That was not my intention at all.

GrouchoMarxist · 27th November 2012, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by Slocie's

Well he is Black. So I say most likely ~ RATT or Quiet Riot,~ Ok Rap with some Thumpin is most likely it.

Quote:

Florida Statute 782.02 Justifiable use of deadly force.—The use of deadly force is justifiable when a person is resisting any attempt to murder such person or to commit any felony upon him or her or upon or in any dwelling house in which such person shall be.

If it was Ratt, he walks.

3point14 · 28th November 2012, 05:08 AM

Originally Posted by Mudcat

I'm not black and I detest rap music, that aside I don't see how anyone can listen to any kind of music at the volumes that they do. Don't they miss out on a lot of the nuisances by doing so? Doesn't that hurt to be sitting so close to a source of sound at that volume? Don't they care at all about going deaf before they reach fifty?

I remember a television programme a few years ago on UK TV.

They took a teenager with umpteen thousand watts pumping through his car stereo and gave him a hearing test.

Afterwards, the very serious hearing test lady (what are they called?) patiently pointed out on the graph at which frequencies his hearing had already deteriorated. His response was something along the lines of 'So, what you're saying is that I need to boost the amplification at those frequencies so I can hear them properly?' Her face was a picture.

Originally Posted by anglolawyer

Not racist? LOL

Hey! Great idea. Give Americans more guns!

I think giving Americans more guns is going to make bugger all difference. There's already more than two each and they can only hold, at most two at once (although, I'm open to correction on that front).

If you provide more guns, the only real effect might be to cut down on reloading time.

Aepervius · 28th November 2012, 05:41 AM

I will avoid judging or anything since all those snippet are incompelte without looking at the complete police report or evidence , but it comes off as downright suspect that at no point while arriving in the hotel room at the evening, at waking up in the morning, at going away back home, he even *tried* to call, say, 911 for example, while at the same time seemingly pretending he feared gang member coming after him. That beggars belief or something.

ETA: if you fear gang banger will come for you, you don't sleep in an hotel room, you call 911, and you wait for them to come. that makes no sense whatsoever to me. And 8 to 9 shots. Woot. How long does it takes to shoot so many ? Did he have a semi automatic ?

anglolawyer · 28th November 2012, 05:45 AM

Originally Posted by Aepervius

I will avoid judging or anything since all those snippet are incompelte without looking at the complete police report or evidence , but it comes off as downright suspect that at no point while arriving in the hotel room at the evening, at waking up in the morning, at going away back home, he even *tried* to call, say, 911 for example, while at the same time seemingly pretending he feared gang member coming after him. That beggars belief or something.

ETA: if you fear gang banger will come for you, you don't sleep in an hotel room, you call 911, and you wait for them to come. that makes no sense whatsoever to me. And 8 to 9 shots. Woot. How long does it takes to shoot so many ? Did he have a semi automatic ?

Do you think you succeeded in avoiding judging?

FenerFan · 28th November 2012, 05:46 AM

Here is link to gun data in the US.

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states

Estimate is 270 million guns.
Population is about 310 million.
Not really close to one for each hand, but still a heck of a lot.

sarge · 28th November 2012, 05:50 AM

Frankly, I think it is unjustifiable to shoot someone that plays their music so loud that it annoys others, unless it is clear that the person playing the music is doing it with the intent to annoy.

If the person that is playing the music so loud it annoys is doing it intentionally AND is wearing their pants so low that the bottom of their ass shows, it is justifiable to set them on fire (the person, not the pants).

CORed · 28th November 2012, 05:55 AM

Originally Posted by Ferguson

It's not about enjoyment, it's about showing off how loud (and by implication, how expensive) your audio system is.

Based on what I usually hear, I would have guessed that they were showing off how badly their audio system distorts the bass.

aggle-rithm · 28th November 2012, 06:01 AM

Originally Posted by Modified

If it makes you feel any better, most of those morons will be nearly deaf by the time they're 50.

At which time they will unfortunately have to turn up the volume even more.

3point14 · 28th November 2012, 06:14 AM

Originally Posted by FenerFan

Here is link to gun data in the US.

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states

Estimate is 270 million guns.
Population is about 310 million.
Not really close to one for each hand, but still a heck of a lot.

Damn, I was guessing.

timhau · 28th November 2012, 06:26 AM

Originally Posted by sarge

If the person that is playing the music so loud it annoys is doing it intentionally AND is wearing their pants so low that the bottom of their ass shows, it is justifiable to set them on fire (the person, not the pants).

Why not pants? What's so special about them?

sarge · 28th November 2012, 06:33 AM

Originally Posted by timhau

Why not pants? What's so special about them?

The pants are not to blame for the manner in which they are worn. Im this case, it ain't the arrow, it's the Indian.

27th November 2012, 03:17 PM	#1
C_Felix Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Right outside Raleigh, NC Posts: 1,041	White guy shoots (and kills) black teen over loud music http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,4320738.story
	__________________ No, his mind is not for rent To any god or government. Always hopeful, yet discontent, He knows changes aren't permanent, But change is.

27th November 2012, 04:50 PM	#6
DreamingNaiad Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: The forgotten sweet abyss Posts: 465	Originally Posted by WildCat No, it has almost no similarities to the Trayvon Martin case. I meant superficially. A grown man confronts teens, gets spooked (I don't know how since it doesn't say they were armed or that they left the car) and shoots. I'm sure that when more details come out it will seem very different. I just hope it doesn't start any race nonsense. Al Sharpton ****** me off more than any man alive.
	Last edited by DreamingNaiad; 27th November 2012 at 04:51 PM. Reason: can't spell

27th November 2012, 05:44 PM	#7
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,957	Originally Posted by DreamingNaiad I meant superficially. A grown man confronts teens, gets spooked (I don't know how since it doesn't say they were armed or that they left the car) and shoots. I'm sure that when more details come out it will seem very different. I just hope it doesn't start any race nonsense. Al Sharpton ****** me off more than any man alive. My first thought every time I hear that name is Tawana Brawley. For those who don't know Al except from his recent stuff: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawana_...pe_allegations
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,957	__________________ There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed. Wash this space! We fight for the Lady Babylon!!!

27th November 2012, 05:45 PM	#8
Mudcat Man of a Thousand Memes Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 3,685	Originally Posted by Rashmi I'm black. I Farkin' hate Rap Music. That said, I enjoy a nice merlot with an aged cheese. Also, I do fancy oatmeal with peanut butter and raspberry jam.....nom, nom. I'm not black and I detest rap music, that aside I don't see how anyone can listen to any kind of music at the volumes that they do. Don't they miss out on a lot of the nuisances by doing so? Doesn't that hurt to be sitting so close to a source of sound at that volume? Don't they care at all about going deaf before they reach fifty?
	__________________ The major problem with Ocham's Razor is that while the simplest answer may be the best answer that doesn't make it the only answer or the right one. Kopji: A perfect utopia where everyone follows the rules is more like a hell than a heaven.

27th November 2012, 06:05 PM	#10
GrouchoMarxist Cowardly insulter of Buddhism Join Date: May 2008 Location: Surly Bonds correctional facility Posts: 939	Originally Posted by Rashmi I'm black. I Farkin' hate Rap Music. That said, I enjoy a nice merlot with an aged cheese. Also, I do fancy oatmeal with peanut butter and raspberry jam.....nom, nom. I didn't see anything in the article about what kind of music they were listening to.
	__________________ I can't believe that having said what I said was interpreted as having been what I said when I said it, because I said it where I said it, when I said it, and who I said it to. Only in America!

27th November 2012, 03:35 PM	#2
DreamingNaiad Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: The forgotten sweet abyss Posts: 465	I don't think race had anything to do with it. But on the face of it this seems quite similar to the Trayvon case. Idiot initiates situation then claims he was tewwified and had to start shooting. All he had to do was drive away. Or keep his mouth shut in the first place.

27th November 2012, 03:43 PM	#3
mikedenk Muse Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Midsouth, USA Posts: 792	I live near a moderately-traveled road. Late at night, like clockwork, the morons start driving by with their music turned up to window-shaking levels. I have to admit to more than a couple of occasions where I hoped to hear a screeching of brakes, a loud thud, then an explosion. And get off my lawn. But anyways... what is the point here? Is this guy a racist? Or is this another Trayvon debacle, where we find out that the poor innocent victim was actual in the midst of a vicious attack? We need Reverend Al and the other race hustlers to get down there and give us the real story.

27th November 2012, 04:25 PM	#4
Modified Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: SW Florida Posts: 4,062	Originally Posted by mikedenk I live near a moderately-traveled road. Late at night, like clockwork, the morons start driving by with their music turned up to window-shaking levels. If it makes you feel any better, most of those morons will be nearly deaf by the time they're 50.

27th November 2012, 04:34 PM	#5
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,095	Originally Posted by DreamingNaiad I don't think race had anything to do with it. But on the face of it this seems quite similar to the Trayvon case. No, it has almost no similarities to the Trayvon Martin case.

27th November 2012, 06:00 PM	#9
anglolawyer Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: surrey, england Posts: 3,284	Not racist? LOL Hey! Great idea. Give Americans more guns!

27th November 2012, 06:15 PM	#11
triforcharity Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: The South! Posts: 12,203	Sounds like a case of cold blooded murder to me. He left the scene, then left town. This stinks of murder. IF self defense, he should have stayed at the scene, and called the police.
	__________________ "The horse has been led to the water, the horse is in fact standing up to its knees in the water, but the horse is telling you in a loud voice that there's no water to be had....he's still so very thirsty!" ~alienentity

27th November 2012, 06:17 PM	#12
triforcharity Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: The South! Posts: 12,203	Originally Posted by anglolawyer Not racist? LOL Hey! Great idea. Give Americans more guns! Yepo! Don't like it? Don't come here, or do your best to legally come take mine.
	__________________ "The horse has been led to the water, the horse is in fact standing up to its knees in the water, but the horse is telling you in a loud voice that there's no water to be had....he's still so very thirsty!" ~alienentity

27th November 2012, 06:23 PM	#13
FenerFan Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Istanbul...again Posts: 1,593	"Please not Florida again.....Damn!"
	__________________ From there to here From here to there Funny things are everywhere - Dr. Seuss Everything that can happen, does. - Garrett Lisi

27th November 2012, 06:45 PM	#15
Cainkane1 Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The great American southeast Posts: 7,198	Some years ago a man white guy shot a white teen for walking on his yard. People get mad and sometimes the anger is lethal.
	__________________ If at first you don't succeed try try again. Then if you fail to succeed to Hell with that. Try something else.

27th November 2012, 06:50 PM	#16
anglolawyer Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: surrey, england Posts: 3,284	Originally Posted by triforcharity Yepo! Don't like it? Don't come here, or do your best to legally come take mine. Don't get me wrong. I wish I had a gun, just so long as no one else did.

27th November 2012, 07:06 PM	#17
FenerFan Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Istanbul...again Posts: 1,593	http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/state/j...usic-complaint Dunn is claiming self-defense. He stated that he saw a gun barrel and was verbally threatened. Also, he fled the scene because he feared that those he shot at were gang members and other gang members would show up. Dunn and his girlfriend then spent the night at a local hotel. He was later arrested at his home.
	__________________ From there to here From here to there Funny things are everywhere - Dr. Seuss Everything that can happen, does. - Garrett Lisi Last edited by FenerFan; 27th November 2012 at 07:13 PM.

27th November 2012, 07:20 PM	#18
BStrong Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: California Posts: 3,816	Originally Posted by triforcharity Sounds like a case of cold blooded murder to me. He left the scene, then left town. This stinks of murder. IF self defense, he should have stayed at the scene, and called the police. I don't know anymore about this incident than anybody else that has read the news reports, but from my training and experience there can be individual incidents involving the use of force by a civilian where leaving the scene of a shooting incident and immediately contacting LE may be the best idea from the standpoint of de escalating a situation that has already turned lethal. This incident and the behavior of the shooter as reported doesn't fit into that narrow parameter.

27th November 2012, 07:50 PM	#19
RedRatSnake Slithering Through life Join Date: May 2008 Location: Southie, Massachusetts. Posts: 1,625	Originally Posted by GrouchoMarxist I didn't see anything in the article about what kind of music they were listening to. Well he is Black. So I say most likely ~ RATT or Quiet Riot, Maybe! kinda? ~ Ok Rap with some Thumpin is most likely it.

27th November 2012, 08:13 PM	#20
kerikiwi Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Bay of Islands NZ Posts: 5,846	Originally Posted by Mudcat Don't they miss out on a lot of the nuisances by doing so? Miss out on the nuisances? They are the nuisances. (I know, I know, you meant nuances, but some typos are very apt)

27th November 2012, 08:24 PM	#21
zeggman Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,768	Originally Posted by FenerFan "Please not Florida again.....Damn!" It's like South Carolina, only more South.
zeggman Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,768

27th November 2012, 08:41 PM	#22
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 7,830	Originally Posted by mikedenk But anyways... what is the point here? Is this guy a racist? Yes: Originally Posted by WPTV Lemonidis said her client and his girlfriend left the scene after the shooting, fearing that they had encountered gang members and that more would follow. Originally Posted by mikedenk Or is this another Trayvon debacle, where we find out that the poor innocent victim was actual in the midst of a vicious attack? You should probably read up on that case. Outside of the word of an accused murderer, no evidence of a "vicious attack" exists. And the most insane part: Originally Posted by WPTV Eight or nine shots were fired at the teens' car, the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office statement added. There were no guns found inside the teens' car, the statement said. I'm now sure how any reasonable person can say with a straight face that firing eight times at an unarmed kid sitting in a car is an act of self-defense.
	__________________ Lost your faith in humanity? Click here to have it restored. Or here. Last edited by johnny karate; 27th November 2012 at 09:58 PM.

27th November 2012, 08:44 PM	#23
Ferguson Muse Join Date: May 2009 Location: Lansing, MI Posts: 835	Originally Posted by Mudcat I'm not black and I detest rap music, that aside I don't see how anyone can listen to any kind of music at the volumes that they do. Don't they miss out on a lot of the nuisances by doing so? Doesn't that hurt to be sitting so close to a source of sound at that volume? Don't they care at all about going deaf before they reach fifty? It's not about enjoyment, it's about showing off how loud (and by implication, how expensive) your audio system is.

27th November 2012, 08:48 PM	#24
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,095	Originally Posted by FenerFan http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/state/j...usic-complaint Dunn is claiming self-defense. He stated that he saw a gun barrel and was verbally threatened. Also, he fled the scene because he feared that those he shot at were gang members and other gang members would show up. Dunn and his girlfriend then spent the night at a local hotel. He was later arrested at his home. Uh, yeah, I guess he just forgot to call the police.

27th November 2012, 09:08 PM	#25
Ferguson Muse Join Date: May 2009 Location: Lansing, MI Posts: 835	Looks pretty damning for Dunn. Not much detail, though. A few paraphrased sentences from a police statement and no witnesses quoted. It's annoying that there's no quotes or information from the other teenagers that were in the car with the victim, or the witnesses that reported the shooting, as to how the confrontation unfolded.

27th November 2012, 09:31 PM	#26
Giz Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: UK/US Posts: 3,439	Originally Posted by WildCat Uh, yeah, I guess he just forgot to call the police. Yeah, flee the scene AND not call police... not a very puzzling whodunnit

27th November 2012, 10:07 PM	#27
FenerFan Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Istanbul...again Posts: 1,593	Here's a link to a extended news report from a local Jacksonville station. It has a few details that weren't mentioned in the other linked articles. The gun Dunn claimed to have seen was a shotgun. Also, Dunn's lawyer said he didn't call the police because, "His understanding was that he had only shot at the vehicle, not at anybody and that he was also concerned with leaving the area immediately because he didn't know if these were gang members..." according to his lawyer Robin Lemonidis. Also, she claims that Dunn was "in the process of turning himself in," when he was arrested at his home. The distance from Jacksonville to his hometown of Satellite Beach is about 175 miles. It's a pretty complete report as things stand now. http://www.news4jax.com/news/Lawyer-...w/-/index.html What do you think about his lawyer? To me, she does not come across very well at all. Not a good idea to mention her client has used and owned since he was in the third grade, in my opinion. She stressed his knowledge of guns, maybe to bolster the claim that he saw a shotgun. On the other hand, some would see him as a over-reactive gun nut. It doesn't seem good for Dunn as no shotgun or other weapon has been found. Also, it seems ridiculous to me that someone would claim they didn't call the police because ,"Hey, I only shot at a car...with people in it...not at the people, just the car." I can see being scared and wanting to get out of the area because maybe of possible gang involvement. Fine, you feel safe in another location and now you can call the cops. A knowledgable gun owner (as apparently Dunn is, according to his attorney) would have to know the seriousness of shooting 8 or 9 times at a vehicle in a gas station parking lot.
	__________________ From there to here From here to there Funny things are everywhere - Dr. Seuss Everything that can happen, does. - Garrett Lisi Last edited by FenerFan; 27th November 2012 at 10:32 PM.

27th November 2012, 10:22 PM	#28
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 20,520	Originally Posted by FenerFan http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/state/j...usic-complaint Dunn is claiming self-defense. He stated that he saw a gun barrel and was verbally threatened. Also, he fled the scene because he feared that those he shot at were gang members and other gang members would show up. Dunn and his girlfriend then spent the night at a local hotel. He was later arrested at his home. Speaking of "nuances".... I don't think it was your intention to make it look worse, but you make it sound like they holed up in a hotel for safety. They stayed in the hotel because that's where they were staying. They were in Jacksonville for his son's wedding. He's not local. Now, that doesn't improve the story. It might make it worse. When they say he was "later arrested at home", they leave out that home was 200 miles away. He and the girlfriend went back to their hotel and stayed the evening and then he drove 200 miles to Satellite Beach. So, he drove away to avoid gang retaliation, stayed overnight in a local hotel and was no retaliatified, then drove 200 miles during which he was also not retaliated against, and then "was arrested".... e.g. he did not turn himself in. I'd like to know more of the other side of this story. How'd they catch him? What do the eyewitnesses say? When was he intending to come forward? Did he, perhaps, come forward? All I can find on this is two articles from Florida newspapers - that have been repeated around the country. Looking forward to better/fuller versions of the story.
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele Don't you wish someone had slapped baby Hitler really really hard? [i] Dr. Buzzo 02/13 [i]

27th November 2012, 10:31 PM	#29
FenerFan Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Istanbul...again Posts: 1,593	Originally Posted by Foolmewunz Speaking of "nuances".... I don't think it was your intention to make it look worse, but you make it sound like they holed up in a hotel for safety. They stayed in the hotel because that's where they were staying. They were in Jacksonville for his son's wedding. He's not local. Now, that doesn't improve the story. It might make it worse. When they say he was "later arrested at home", they leave out that home was 200 miles away. He and the girlfriend went back to their hotel and stayed the evening and then he drove 200 miles to Satellite Beach. So, he drove away to avoid gang retaliation, stayed overnight in a local hotel and was no retaliatified, then drove 200 miles during which he was also not retaliated against, and then "was arrested".... e.g. he did not turn himself in. I'd like to know more of the other side of this story. How'd they catch him? What do the eyewitnesses say? When was he intending to come forward? Did he, perhaps, come forward? All I can find on this is two articles from Florida newspapers - that have been repeated around the country. Looking forward to better/fuller versions of the story. You are correct, it does come across as if I was saying they scurried off and hid away in a hotel. That was not my intention at all.
	__________________ From there to here From here to there Funny things are everywhere - Dr. Seuss Everything that can happen, does. - Garrett Lisi

27th November 2012, 10:58 PM	#30
GrouchoMarxist Cowardly insulter of Buddhism Join Date: May 2008 Location: Surly Bonds correctional facility Posts: 939	Originally Posted by Slocie's Well he is Black. So I say most likely ~ RATT or Quiet Riot,~ Ok Rap with some Thumpin is most likely it. Quote: Florida Statute 782.02 Justifiable use of deadly force.—The use of deadly force is justifiable when a person is resisting any attempt to murder such person or to commit any felony upon him or her or upon or in any dwelling house in which such person shall be. If it was Ratt, he walks.
	__________________ I can't believe that having said what I said was interpreted as having been what I said when I said it, because I said it where I said it, when I said it, and who I said it to. Only in America!

28th November 2012, 05:08 AM	#31
3point14 Pi Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London ish Posts: 3,598	Originally Posted by Mudcat I'm not black and I detest rap music, that aside I don't see how anyone can listen to any kind of music at the volumes that they do. Don't they miss out on a lot of the nuisances by doing so? Doesn't that hurt to be sitting so close to a source of sound at that volume? Don't they care at all about going deaf before they reach fifty? I remember a television programme a few years ago on UK TV. They took a teenager with umpteen thousand watts pumping through his car stereo and gave him a hearing test. Afterwards, the very serious hearing test lady (what are they called?) patiently pointed out on the graph at which frequencies his hearing had already deteriorated. His response was something along the lines of 'So, what you're saying is that I need to boost the amplification at those frequencies so I can hear them properly?' Her face was a picture. Originally Posted by anglolawyer Not racist? LOL Hey! Great idea. Give Americans more guns! I think giving Americans more guns is going to make bugger all difference. There's already more than two each and they can only hold, at most two at once (although, I'm open to correction on that front). If you provide more guns, the only real effect might be to cut down on reloading time.
	__________________ Cull the delusional.

28th November 2012, 05:41 AM	#32
Aepervius Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Bierland. I mean , germany. Posts: 7,761	I will avoid judging or anything since all those snippet are incompelte without looking at the complete police report or evidence , but it comes off as downright suspect that at no point while arriving in the hotel room at the evening, at waking up in the morning, at going away back home, he even tried to call, say, 911 for example, while at the same time seemingly pretending he feared gang member coming after him. That beggars belief or something. ETA: if you fear gang banger will come for you, you don't sleep in an hotel room, you call 911, and you wait for them to come. that makes no sense whatsoever to me. And 8 to 9 shots. Woot. How long does it takes to shoot so many ? Did he have a semi automatic ?
	__________________ Omnes Blessant Ultima necat "I want, and this is my last and most dear wish, I want that the last of the king be strangled with the guts of the last priest" (Jean Meslier / 1664-1729 / Testament) A very early french atheist, a catholic priest in life. Last edited by Aepervius; 28th November 2012 at 05:43 AM.

28th November 2012, 05:45 AM	#33
anglolawyer Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: surrey, england Posts: 3,284	Originally Posted by Aepervius I will avoid judging or anything since all those snippet are incompelte without looking at the complete police report or evidence , but it comes off as downright suspect that at no point while arriving in the hotel room at the evening, at waking up in the morning, at going away back home, he even tried to call, say, 911 for example, while at the same time seemingly pretending he feared gang member coming after him. That beggars belief or something. ETA: if you fear gang banger will come for you, you don't sleep in an hotel room, you call 911, and you wait for them to come. that makes no sense whatsoever to me. And 8 to 9 shots. Woot. How long does it takes to shoot so many ? Did he have a semi automatic ? Do you think you succeeded in avoiding judging?

28th November 2012, 05:46 AM	#34
FenerFan Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Istanbul...again Posts: 1,593	Here is link to gun data in the US. http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states Estimate is 270 million guns. Population is about 310 million. Not really close to one for each hand, but still a heck of a lot.
	__________________ From there to here From here to there Funny things are everywhere - Dr. Seuss Everything that can happen, does. - Garrett Lisi

28th November 2012, 05:50 AM	#35
sarge Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Fayetteville, NC Posts: 2,344	Frankly, I think it is unjustifiable to shoot someone that plays their music so loud that it annoys others, unless it is clear that the person playing the music is doing it with the intent to annoy. If the person that is playing the music so loud it annoys is doing it intentionally AND is wearing their pants so low that the bottom of their ass shows, it is justifiable to set them on fire (the person, not the pants).
	__________________ I'm a not-so-strict constructionist, fiscally conservative, social liberal. Exactly which party represents me?

28th November 2012, 05:55 AM	#36
CORed Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 4,291	Originally Posted by Ferguson It's not about enjoyment, it's about showing off how loud (and by implication, how expensive) your audio system is. Based on what I usually hear, I would have guessed that they were showing off how badly their audio system distorts the bass.
CORed Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 4,291