The BFF V The BFRO Forums

[COGrizzly]

Hello all,

I see a lot of basically bashing on the BFF here. Not so much for the BFRO Forum. The BFRO seems to be much more out of reach, (as they say, and IMO)

Why?

Thanks in advance. And Enjoy the Day.
COGrizzly

[philkensebben]

BFRO is too silly for words?

[LTC8K6]

It's hard to bash what you aren't allowed to participate in?

That would be my guess. Sceptics are sort of allowed on BFF.

Not so much on BFRO.

I've never been a member of either, so I'm only guessing.

[Sonny2]

BFRO is even more culty than BFF, if possible. Totally censored with an iron hand. If you're not a footer, stay away.

At least the BFF tries to give an appearance of openness.

[Castro]

Originally Posted by COGrizzly

Hello all,

I see a lot of basically bashing on the BFF here. Not so much for the BFRO Forum. The BFRO seems to be much more out of reach, (as they say, and IMO)

Why?

Thanks in advance. And Enjoy the Day.
COGrizzly

Because there aren't any members/ex members of the BFRO forum posting here?

ETA:I don't see the bashing of the BFF as an important activity of the JREF, BTW. I guess it's a matter of perspective.

[mikeyx]

Originally Posted by COGrizzly

Hello all,

I see a lot of basically bashing on the BFF here. Not so much for the BFRO Forum. The BFRO seems to be much more out of reach, (as they say, and IMO)

Why?

Thanks in advance. And Enjoy the Day.
COGrizzly

BFRO: land of findinf bigfoot and owned and operated by Math Moneymaker. Disagree with the party line and bye bye.

BFF: run and operated by the church of bigfoot, strains, noll, etc. More loosely organized but essentially the same agenda.

[mikeyx]

Originally Posted by Sonny2

BFRO is even more culty than BFF, if possible. Totally censored with an iron hand. If you're not a footer, stay away.

At least the BFF tries to give an appearance of openness.

not an even handed one, the bleievers definately do abuse the report system etc, to bully their point of view.

[COGrizzly]

Cool. Thanks for the responses. Bashing wasn't the best term to use. I was just curious - and some good responses that make sense.

[RayG]

Meh, I've been a member of the BFF for nearly as long as I've been a member here, and have more posts there than I do here. Have I butted heads with the staff? Sure. The rules are pretty simple though, and as long as you abide by them you can continue to post and discuss skeptical points of view. I should know, I've been doing it for nearly a decade.

RayG

[jerrywayne]

Originally Posted by mikeyx

not an even handed one, the bleievers definately do abuse the report system etc, to bully their point of view.

I suspected such at BFF.

[RedRatSnake]

Originally Posted by jerrywayne

I suspected such at BFF.

It was happening to me hand over fist last time I was posting there, I finally gave up, I used to have no problem posting but soon as I turned non believer the game changed and RRS all the sudden was ~ One Of Them .

[StankApe]

I had a POE "bleever" account on the BFRO forums for awhile (I wish I could find my posts but they were all deleted, as my sighting story was hilarious). I never got in any trouble , until one day I pointed out that the Chillcutt "dermal ridges" could have just been casting artifacts, the mob turned on me and before you know it, I got a PM stating "you have banned from posting on this forum as we don't allow skeptical thinking in terms of Bigfoot's existence" or sumthin like that! lol

[tube]

Originally Posted by StankApe

I had a POE "bleever" account on the BFRO forums for awhile (I wish I could find my posts but they were all deleted, as my sighting story was hilarious). I never got in any trouble , until one day I pointed out that the Chillcutt "dermal ridges" could have just been casting artifacts, the mob turned on me and before you know it, I got a PM stating "you have banned from posting on this forum as we don't allow skeptical thinking in terms of Bigfoot's existence" or sumthin like that! lol

Yes, that subject seems to bring out the worst in some Bigfooters. I participated in Bigfoot Forums for some time, until falsely accused of federal crimes.

You shatter the credibility of the expert of the moment, and you will bring out the liars, sociopaths, and groupies who bring their own self-promotional agenda as part of a response. The moderation of Bigfoot Forums is a complete joke if you are allowed to make criminally libelous accusations against other members.

For some time I harbored a belief that somehow Bigfootery was different from other kinds of woo, but it's obviously not. It's not uncommon for skeptics with more notoriety than myself to get actual death threats.

[RedRatSnake]

Originally Posted by StankApe

I had a POE "bleever" account on the BFRO forums for awhile (I wish I could find my posts but they were all deleted, as my sighting story was hilarious). I never got in any trouble , until one day I pointed out that the Chillcutt "dermal ridges" could have just been casting artifacts, the mob turned on me and before you know it, I got a PM stating "you have banned from posting on this forum as we don't allow skeptical thinking in terms of Bigfoot's existence" or sumthin like that! lol

I was a member there when the Jacobs photos first came out, I lasted all of about 7 posts after I suggested the possibility of it being a bear.

[RedRatSnake]

Originally Posted by tube

Yes, that subject seems to bring out the worst in some Bigfooters. I participated in Bigfoot Forums for some time, until falsely accused of federal crimes.

.

I remember that. It's another reason that made me think about what is going on with the footers and the length they will go to keep this sick hoax alive, I say sick cause that is what it has become. There was a time it was fun and interesting but that's all gone now.

[Sonny2]

I've read posts on thre that were irrationally attacking others and the attackers seemed quite capable of doing nefarious deeds, at least by the tones of their posts, it seemed quite possible. Whether or not they would, I don't know, but I do recall when Kitikaze was being stalked.

[RedRatSnake]

Originally Posted by Sonny2

I've read posts on thre that were irrationally attacking others and the attackers seemed quite capable of doing nefarious deeds, at least by the tones of their posts, it seemed quite possible. Whether or not they would, I don't know, but I do recall when Kitikaze was being stalked.

Threats made on a forum are just about the lowest coward act one can do, I have seen it and I am still amazed folks even worry about it. As far as BF goes it's like give a BF believing redneck a gun and all the sudden he is a green beret coming to get ya if you don't agree with what he says.

The world is a lot bigger than the trailer park and not everyone has the brain capacity of Jethro Bodine.

[River]

BFRO = tow the company line or be banned. There is no toleration for skeptical arguments presented. (unless its by management! then you can e-rage like a masta!) Because of that, there is no real interesting discussions. Only a lot of delusional, and quite frankly weird, posts suggesting the existence of bigfoot in all sorts of rural and non rural areas.

MM is entertaining for his banter, even online when he explodes predictably at any opposition. He tends to not participate elsewhere due to his controlling nature, but when he does, often times it ends up with a ban for e-rage+empty legal threats.

[mikeyx]

Originally Posted by Sonny2

I've read posts on thre that were irrationally attacking others and the attackers seemed quite capable of doing nefarious deeds, at least by the tones of their posts, it seemed quite possible. Whether or not they would, I don't know, but I do recall when Kitikaze was being stalked.

he very likely was btw.

[Sonny2]

He talked about going to the police, so I took him to be very serious.

There are some real "committed" people in the BF world. And some that should be.

This is why it reminds me of a religion. If we were talking some undiscovered butterfly species that a number of people had sworn they'd seen (or like Shrike's example of the maybe extinct bird) you would never see this extreme reaction.

[RedRatSnake]

bobby o from the BFF threatened me with physical harm once, I did point it out to the mods but since it was against "me" a non beelever they shook it off and the post was removed.

Never got far enough into the BFRO to get threatened, I got banned way before any of them got mad enough at me ~ lol

[RayG]

Maybe that was before the current group of Mods?

RayG

[Jodie]

I don't feel too sorry for Kit, though, because either he is oblivious, or he has let by gones be by gones and has reconciled with those that had a hand in covering up who threatened him.

[RedRatSnake]

Haven't been there in a year or so ~ Ray ~ I have always had respect for you and I am sure things are different with you on the team, At least I hope so ~ LOL

Tim

RedRatSnake

[Jodie]

Originally Posted by RayG

Maybe that was before the current group of Mods?

RayG

No, maybe it it is related to your ex-cheif admin, your director, and one of the current steering committee members. Try innocently asking about it sometime RayG see what happens to you.

[Jodie]

Originally Posted by Slocie's

Haven't been there in a year or so ~ Ray ~ I have always had respect for you and I am sure things are different with you on the team, At least I hope so ~ LOL

Tim

I think it was an EOE move, token staff member that happens to be a skeptic.

[RedRatSnake]

Any move toward a level playing field should be taken as a good move, only time will tell what effect it has. One good thing about the BFF is they have not gone into stealth mode like the BFRO did, you can still read general stuff without being a member.

[RayG]

Token staff member? How so? As long as the rules are adhered to, discussion is allowed to ensue.

It's my understanding that one of the reasons I was approached is because of the way I deal with people, not because/in spite of my beliefs.

It's none of my concern why former mods or amins aren't there anymore. I really don't care whether they walked away or were told to pack their bags, it has no bearing on my present position.

RayG

[RedRatSnake]

Originally Posted by RayG

Token staff member? How so? As long as the rules are adhered to, discussion is allowed to ensue.

First order of Bizz ~ Help change this from a guideline to a rule.


"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. On the BFF we accept very little at face value. We may have a tendency to over-analyze claims and be more skeptical than some other forums dedicated to this topic, but we think that is preferable to the alternative."

It's my understanding that one of the reasons I was approached is because of the way I deal with people, not because/in spite of my beliefs.

Keep your eye's peeled on that

It's none of my concern why former mods or amins aren't there anymore. I really don't care whether they walked away or were told to pack their bags, it has no bearing on my present position.

Way to go

RayG

Good luck Ray

[Jodie]

Originally Posted by RayG

Token staff member? How so? As long as the rules are adhered to, discussion is allowed to ensue.

It's my understanding that one of the reasons I was approached is because of the way I deal with people, not because/in spite of my beliefs.

It's none of my concern why former mods or amins aren't there anymore. I really don't care whether they walked away or were told to pack their bags, it has no bearing on my present position.

RayG

Ray, they always try to have at least one die hard skeptic on staff so that they don't look biased in decision making, usually its just one for looks.

Gee, that was exactly the same thing they said to me too when they asked me to be a moderator. Think about it Ray, do you really have a gift for how you deal with folks on a forum? You aren't bad, I always enjoyed your posts but I would never accuse you of being tactful or diplomatic. Not everyone is a straight shooter like you are.

It's none of your business? I assumed you cared or you wouldn't have asked the question. Sorry if you didn't like the answer but it is what it is.

[RayG]

Now you done it... you've fizzled my shizzle. I thought I was the first die-hard skeptic to reach such a lofty height. I'm racking my brain, but can't recall any card-carrying skeptic holding a similar position there. Certainly wasn't obvious or memorable to me, and I've been a member there from almost the moment it was hatched. Don't keep me in suspense any longer, who was it?

A gift? Hardly. I just think bigfoot can be discussed without things getting personal. I had my fun holding Beckjord's feet in the fire, but now that he's gone, I've mellowed significantly.

Maybe you're right Jodie, and I'm only in there because they want a token skeptic. I don't see how that would serve any useful purpose, but I haven't tried to over-analyze it.

RayG

[COGrizzly]

Just my opinion here, but I think RayG being on staff is because he has displayed over a significant amount of time that he can make calm, rational decisions. He seems to separate emotion from the situation - which is kinda hard to find anymore. Not b/c he is a "skeptic". Could be wrong, I have been many a time.

[Jodie]

Well I just remember the discussions we had after we lost a bunch of mods and they were wanting a skeptic. HRP and the other admins said they wanted to have at least one to present a more balanced front. It matters so that the staff will be less likely to be accused of being biased towards proponents.

I liked MikeG because he was educated and a true skeptic so I suggested him before I left. The skeptics tend to put a "woah" on shenanigans historically so if you see anything going south, which I doubt you will now unless HRP returns, you are the designated whistle blower.

Either way, you will do a fine job Ray.

[SuperFly]

RayG, by all marks you have some of the most well thought out and educational posts on the BFF going way back. I think your selection as a mod was appropriate and by what I can see as a member your "mod statements" have been spot on and even handed.

Regarding whether skeptics should be represented on staff of the BFF... absolutely. From PM's with staff members it seems they do discuss individual cases and sometimes will hand off a case to someone else if they've "gone at it" in the threads with a particular member. Having a variety of points of view on staff is a good and balanced approach.

Regarding the BFRO, that was the first dedicated BF forum I joined. However, there isn't very much action (posts) over there and threads tend to be closed after a short while, so it is difficult to develop an ongoing discussion without it getting shut down. In this regard the BFF is hands down a leader as far as that goes, some of the threads (like the Ketchum thread) are extensive.

The BFF has a wide range of opinions and topics. The BFRO..... not so much. Okay, the BFRO forum sucks.

[Jodie]

Mulder, is that you? If so, I'm having a hard time picturing you in a 1970's pimp get up which is what your new screen name evokes to me......lolol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdmYIdw1_wo

[The Shrike]

I've never participated in a discussion at the BFRO but have been an active participant at the BFF for many years. Despite my obvious "there's no bigfoot" stance, I've been asked many times to serve as a moderator at the BFF - something I don't think would ever happen at the BFRO. It's one of the reasons that I continue to participate at the BFF: There is, at least, the opportunity for skeptical opinions to be expressed and while some of the members bristle when they read them, the mods have consistently allowed such comments from me to remain in those threads.

It is possible for a true fence-sitting newbie to visit the BFF, encounter some of my stuff (not just mine, of course), and come away with a better way to critically evaluate bigfooty claims. I think that's important because a naiive newbie interested in learning about bigfoot is going to find the BFF long before stumbling onto the JREF.

[Sonny2]

Shrike, I was a skeptic on BFF, though I didn't post much. I was in on the Parnassus and Bigfoot Bookstore guy fiasco, which eventually added to the crash of BFF1.

I read many of your posts, and even though I was already a skeptic, you helped me figure out stuff I couldn't connect until then. So, you are a big influence over there (and here, of course), and a much-needed voice of reason.

[The Shrike]

Thanks Sonny. Yes, the point is that there are and have been multiple prominent "voices of reason" over there. Here on the JREF, we tend to call out the abject woo nonsense that gets promoted there - and rightly so - but the place IS different than the other bigfoot woo-factories in that skeptics are to some degree tolerated.

[RedRatSnake]

Thing is ! How many times can one point out the flaws in the footer logic, the lack of prints around the Skookum cast, foot prints that all the sudden start and then lead to nowhere, Lack of bones, pictures, difference between how BF bends a tree and the wind, etc, etc. It just gets so boring day after day, same ole thread different name.
All along knowing that the animal is a Myth and a giant hoax, At least here we can dig for the truth about how these hoaxes are being manufactured not worrying about hurting the Monkey and the Money.

[GrouchoMarxist]

Originally Posted by Slocie's

Thing is ! How many times can one point out the flaws in the footer logic, the lack of prints around the Skookum cast, foot prints that all the sudden start and then lead to no wear, Lack of bones, pictures, difference between how BF bends a tree and the wind, etc, etc. It just gets so boring day after day, same ole thread different name.
All along knowing that the animal is a Myth and a giant hoax, At least here we can dig for the truth about how these hoaxes are being manufactured not worrying about hurting the Monkey and the Money.

That explains the lack of bigfoot sightings at Payless.