The BFF V The BFRO Forums

[StankApe]

Originally Posted by Jodie

Let me ask you guys something, if the mythical bigfoot stepped out of the underbrush onto a trail you happened to be hiking, and you got a really good look at him from head to toe standing six feet away from you, would you tell anyone?

I would tell him jokes, and when he went to applaud I'd knock him the head with a big stick!!!

[Sonny2]

Jokes? All you'd need is that football. He'd be all yours.

And Santa hat, of course.

(Has Sweaty Yeti analyzed your avatar yet?)

[StankApe]

and a bottle of Stank Ape hormones!!!

[Sonny2]

That's going too far...I'm sure he'd run...

[Jodie]

I guess I was being one of those fake skeptics for begging the question and not discussing science and truth. I'll remember that criteria the next time the authentic skeptics start one upping each other with the kindergarten banter.

Personally, I think I would just walk away if I saw a big hairy ape man and not bother to mention it to anyone knowing what I know now. I'm not overly concerned about the negative, it would be the positive reinforcement from the die hard footers that would put me off.

[StankApe]

Originally Posted by Jodie

I guess I was being one of those fake skeptics for begging the question and not discussing science and truth. I'll remember that criteria the next time the authentic skeptics start one upping each other with the kindergarten banter.

Personally, I think I would just walk away if I saw a big hairy ape man and not bother to mention it to anyone knowing what I know now. I'm not overly concerned about the negative, it would be the positive reinforcement from the die hard footers that would put me off.

Oh don't be sour..... We are just having a little fun with it, cuz we know there is no giant man ape to see.

It's akin to saying "what would you do if you won the lottery?" it's so not happening, so any answer is really just silly by default

[Jodie]

Originally Posted by StankApe

Oh don't be sour..... We are just having a little fun with it, cuz we know there is no giant man ape to see.

It's akin to saying "what would you do if you won the lottery?" it's so not happening, so any answer is really just silly by default

Yep, silly seems to bother some a lot more than others so I'll just keep on poking the bear with it.

[Sonny2]

Jode, some people just take life too serious. Just ignore and be happy.

[AttorneyTom]

Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot

This.

Every one of them pretends to be "balanced" by generating straw men positions skeptics do not have, playing dumb, selective attention, begging the question, etc: using logical fallacies at the same time they are pretending to "show" skeptics how to be TRULY skeptical. You can see the smirk on their faces as they're typing.

It would be one thing were it reasonable differences people have, but one of the gifts in this kind of acting is staking out a completely absurd position with a straight face and pretending people disagreeing with it are unreasonable. What, who me? No, honestly I really think two plus two can be five, for sufficiently large values of two.

The default position of the wildest bigfoot proponent is that he is the balanced, open-minded skeptic and the people following the scientific method are closed-minded, biased jerks. Every new phony skeptic here thinks he's come up with the "new idea" of posing himself as the fair-and-balanced skeptic saying a thousand years of history is not enough to determine whether elephants are roaming wild in Central Park.

For a lot of them that come here discussion is not about science and truth. It's just a fun game they're playing, and faking a position is way more fun than honest discussion. Chain-yanking. That is what I react to most strongly - that kind of deceit. I've tried to do it by going on their forums and faking a position but it bothers me too much to maintain a lie.

But boy, they sure can. They know exactly how deceitful they are being while they are doing it, which is where the fun is for them: everyone else being so stupid as to buy into their deception. Not their false argument - but making you believe that they are sincere in that argument.

You can see it being turned on and off like a light switch. Day and night. One minute looking up sources and sounding reasonable and the next minute saying the moon is made of green cheese.

Yes, there is no denying that these sort of folks have been on here. Over and over to the point of frustration ! You can see it AB in the above replys that tend to ignore your thoughts and observations ..

"What would you do if a BF jumped onto the trail 6 ft in front of you ?"

No place like home. Yikes ! Making up made up scenarios of a mythical creature that does not exist still ? Good Grief. It seems to me that some of those that have "escaped" from the bff or bfro still like to believe in the subject and really have not gotten over that issue.

There is obviously no such thing as bf... unless that is the guy dating your daughter.

[AttorneyTom]

bf is a drug.. a sedative or a stimulant.. or at the very least a comfort food for some people.

Depending on how in they are to the myth. Interesting to watch. It appears some were bought in childhood with the PGF at your local theatre. Others became addicted later in life through cable tv.

[RedRatSnake]

Originally Posted by AttorneyTom

"What would you do if a BF jumped onto the trail 6 ft in front of you ?"

No place like home. Yikes ! Making up made up scenarios of a mythical creature that does not exist still ? Good Grief. It seems to me that some of those that have "escaped" from the bff or bfro still like to believe in the subject and really have not gotten over that issue.

Look at it this way. After leaving a cult it is going to take some time to readjust and sort out things, when making hard decisions some times there is a need to look over the reasons after the fact, one might still have to question the move by asking others about their experiences etc, I know cause it happened to me when I quit the BFF and took a year off to think.

Plus! Don't ever underestimate the power of sarcasm.

[AttorneyTom]

Originally Posted by Slocie's

Look at it this way. After leaving a cult it is going to take some time to readjust and sort out things, when making hard decisions some times there is a need to look over the reasons after the fact, one might still have to question the move by asking others about their experiences etc, I know cause it happened to me when I quit the BFF and took a year off to think.

Plus! Don't ever underestimate the power of sarcasm.

Hey.. I can appreciate that and understand it.

That said. Why do so many pop over here and do this..

I believe in bf or used to ( blah.. blah.. blah lame story), Oh.. maybe I dont.. ( blah blah etc.. ), I guess I dont think it exists... but then maybe I do.. If someone shows me a dead one ! Then when another BFRO'er shows up they stick up for them ?

bf is truly a cult. It is about self denial and should be listed in the Big Book ! Oh wait.. It is.. In many manifestations and diagnosis.

[Sonny2]

I was never a footer and when I posted on the BFF it was as a skeptic and I got a lot of crap for it. So, I post here and get a lot of crap for it. I never saw one single BF movie, not even the infamous Boggy Creek, and when I did discover that people thought this thing was real, I analyzed it and read the encounters and finally decided there was no way in hell it could exist.

Why does being a skeptic preclude having fun with a topic?

[AlaskaBushPilot]

There isn't a problem with having fun with a topic. It is having fun with people by acting deceptively and treating them as toys.

I am not imagining what I see with my own eyes. Tom and others mention it and really we are being called stupid or extremely gullible if we are asked to believe otherwise.

In debate classes people are actually encouraged to take positions opposite to their beliefs in order to train and become experts in dishonest exchange. It is a skill some admire, but I don't and believe it goes against the purposes established by James Randi. It comes down to honesty as a core value.

The cult analogy is a good one, with the Noble Lie as the core value instead.

It isn't the point for me that a person poses either as "for" or "against" bigfoot. It is rejection of the Noble Lie, of emotional manipulation, of deployment of logical fallacies, of turning critical thinking on and off at will depending on whether you like someone or not.

It really isn't saying much at all of your intellect if you reject this stupid myth. You can do that and still retain most or all of the nasty tricks you learned in the 'footer trade. "I can't prove a point, but I can get you angry." I can act obtuse just to be a pain in the butt. It's fun to give people the run-around.

[RedRatSnake]

Originally Posted by AttorneyTom

Hey.. I can appreciate that and understand it.

That said. Why do so many pop over here and do this..

I believe in bf or used to ( blah.. blah.. blah lame story), Oh.. maybe I dont.. ( blah blah etc.. ), I guess I dont think it exists... but then maybe I do.. If someone shows me a dead one ! Then when another BFRO'er shows up they stick up for them ?

bf is truly a cult. It is about self denial and should be listed in the Big Book ! Oh wait.. It is.. In many manifestations and diagnosis.

The BF enthusiasts that do the hit and run stuff most certainly fall in the space that you are talking about, the regulars that post here I think have spoke up ~ out & against the cult in many ways, an occasional positive BF tone post once in a while should be looked at but not necessarily a cause for alarm.
I think the folks that are posting here now do a good job at checking the facts and making sure things are as accurate as can be, lot's of work has to be done to verify the misleading way the footers publish the leaks.

[Jodie]

Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot

There isn't a problem with having fun with a topic. It is having fun with people by acting deceptively and treating them as toys.

I am not imagining what I see with my own eyes. Tom and others mention it and really we are being called stupid or extremely gullible if we are asked to believe otherwise.

In debate classes people are actually encouraged to take positions opposite to their beliefs in order to train and become experts in dishonest exchange. It is a skill some admire, but I don't and believe it goes against the purposes established by James Randi. It comes down to honesty as a core value.

The cult analogy is a good one, with the Noble Lie as the core value instead.

It isn't the point for me that a person poses either as "for" or "against" bigfoot. It is rejection of the Noble Lie, of emotional manipulation, of deployment of logical fallacies, of turning critical thinking on and off at will depending on whether you like someone or not.

It really isn't saying much at all of your intellect if you reject this stupid myth. You can do that and still retain most or all of the nasty tricks you learned in the 'footer trade. "I can't prove a point, but I can get you angry." I can act obtuse just to be a pain in the butt. It's fun to give people the run-around.

Usually what bothers one the most are characteristics that they themselves exhibit as a defense mechanism when they know they've lost the argument and can't come up with a better rebuttal than to be insulting or "poison the well" with whatever insight it is they think they might have from a post on a forum. Your impressions are probably just like bigfoot, living strictly in your imagination. Rather than be rude and assume there is some kind of hidden motive, why not just ask the person why they said what they said?

[MikeG]

Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot

...........I am not imagining what I see with my own eyes.........

Isn't this the very thing that you accuse "bleevers" of? Believing their own eyes, and not producing evidence? Sort of leaves you vulnerable to an accusation of hypocrisy, wouldn't you say?

Mike

[Steve001]

Originally Posted by Jodie

Let me ask you guys something, if the mythical bigfoot stepped out of the underbrush onto a trail you happened to be hiking, and you got a really good look at him from head to toe standing six feet away from you, would you tell anyone?

Yes, I would. After getting over my initial shock I'd zero in and scrutinize it from head too toe like Sherlock Holms. Then I'd use my cell phone's camera and take photos and look for hair samples etc.

[jerrywayne]

I'll confess to muddle-headedness. I see the world much more ambiguously than many seem to do. Bigfoot, I seriously doubt. Is it without a doubt an untrue myth? I cannot take that step.

Most people who believe in Bigfoot do so because the idea of the existence of a near-human thing in the hinterlands captures their imagination. Those that take it really seriously see themselves as singularly, potentially adding to the knowing of the world. The motive for belief is in the belief itself. It is cynical, to my mind, to reduce the whole affair to con-jobs and manipulation for profit. (Although Matt Moneymaker is a living, breathing counter-example to my view.)

[jerrywayne]

Originally Posted by Jodie

Let me ask you guys something, if the mythical bigfoot stepped out of the underbrush onto a trail you happened to be hiking, and you got a really good look at him from head to toe standing six feet away from you, would you tell anyone?

If I came to my skepticism due to my understanding of the issues, I would also have to accept this new information, if vivid and not ambiguous--- and I would talk my ass off.

[William Parcher]

Originally Posted by jerrywayne

If I came to my skepticism due to my understanding of the issues, I would also have to accept this new information, if vivid and not ambiguous--- and I would talk my ass off.

And I would expect that you would do the same if you saw a genuine unicorn, fairy, leprechaun or mermaid.

[Sonny2]

never mind...

[Beaver Hateman]

Originally Posted by William Parcher

And I would expect that you would do the same if you saw a genuine unicorn, fairy, leprechaun or mermaid.

I think I might hang around longer to investigate the reality of a fairy or a leprechaun than I would for a Bigfoot. You have to remember that the super-logical professor-type guy who scoffs at his own eyes and insists that the dragon cannot be real because dragons do not exist always ends up getting eaten by the dragon. It's in loads of films. And if we cannot learn from films, then we are doomed to an endless cycle of Police Academy sequels.

[Jodie]

LOLOL ... well then Beaver Hateman , I have just the link for you then. It should fulfill every requirement for any sightings involving any mythological creature you might have.

http://www.daily-times.com/farmingto...576?source=rss

[Sonny2]

Man, they have it all there on the Rez. The Navajo are very superstitious people. I was talking once to a Navajo guy about a local condo development called Coyote Fields and he was telling me his cousin worked there as a plumber and was always seeing these tall dark figures in the shadows and eventually got really sick. It was supposedly because of the coyote name (Coyote is the Trickster, a Navajo diety who can do bad things to people).

A prime example of how a superstitious mindset can mess up your life, IMO.

He then told me another story about riding on the Rez and coming to an Anasazi cliff dwelling and his friend's horse later throwing him and breaking his leg, all because they weren't supposed to be near the Ancient One's homes.

[Beaver Hateman]

Originally Posted by Jodie

LOLOL ... well then Beaver Hateman , I have just the link for you then. It should fulfill every requirement for any sightings involving any mythological creature you might have.

http://www.daily-times.com/farmingto...576?source=rss

I like the line ..

"Lately, an unusual number of people on the reservation also have spotted Centaurs,"

..which raises the question of what the usual number of people who spot centaurs is.

Also, halfway down is an advert showing the Pillsbury Dough boy, which I thought for a minute was an illustration of another claimed sighting.

The locals must be having fun with those two guys. "Tell him centaurs...he'll never go for that...bloody hell, he did"

[Darat]

Unfortunately too many of the participants in this thread are ignoring their Membership Agreement so the thread is being closed until such time as a moderator can do a clean-up. As is usual do not attempt to continue this discussion elsewhere on the Forum, you will have to wait until the thread is cleaned and then re-opened.

Posted By:Darat

[RedRatSnake]

Hey what other forums do some of you use to discuss Bigfoot or other topic's, the BFF and BFRO are way boring.

[jerrywayne]

Originally Posted by William Parcher

And I would expect that you would do the same if you saw a genuine unicorn, fairy, leprechaun or mermaid.

Of course, if I saw a genuine unicorn, fairy, etc.

Do you dislike hypotheticals in general, or just hypotheticals that premise the existence of Bigfoot?

[AttorneyTom]

I was just wondering.. Has this thread been cleaned or is it still in quarantine status ? Just wondering..

[RedRatSnake]

For Christs sake there is no BF ~ hahaha.

Correct me if I am wrong but does it seem like the people from the BFF ( that includes a lot of us ) are way more aggressive on the net than people from the BFRO, I don't see BFRO people coming here and being so fighty.

[GT/CS]

That may be because people from here are not allowed to post at the BFRO so we don't have the opportunity to piss them off enough to come over here and embarrass themselves.

[RedRatSnake]

They must at least read the threads I am sure, wonder if they are forbidden to join or answer on this forum, something is going on if no one from there has never posted here.

[OntarioSquatch]

The BFF is like a church for us bleevers. Jk lol

[RedRatSnake]

More like an Asylum that culls the sheep of Sasquatchery. Jk

[captain koolaid]

Bigfootery as church? Yeah, maybe. Sort of. Used to think so, but now I'm not so sure. It certainly has that sort of look to it. But, I don't think the belief factor is as significant anymore, overall (if it ever was). Certainly not with the bigwigs and probably not with many, if not most of the followers. I think Footery is more like a floating campfire yarn circle slash tourist trap. They're not so much gullible, as liars. Colourful liars. It's a sort of an exclusive liars club. Complete with status and prestige. Grand poobah of liars... Exective officer of liars... Chief bottle washer of liars... that sort of thing. It's about telling scary stories and selling coffee mugs. Getting more wide eyed "kiddies" to sit enthralled by monster tales. It's fun and also profitable for some. I don't think they're all that stupid. Well, maybe initially. But I suspect that most know that's it's all fantasy and a jolly wheeze, after a while. But, they carry on the charade as the look on the face of the impressionable is kind of addictive. It's a grand and elaborate prank that isn't hampered by the bucks it generates, here and there. It started as a prank and I don't think it's changed all that much. Just expanded operations and diversified.

[Jodie]

Not a church per se, but I do think bigfootery has several secular cult like qualities.

1. Emotional response- Those that think they have seen bigfoot are often profoundly affected.
2. Because of the emotional investment it's easier to suspend critical thinking.
3. Dismissal and rebuke of dissenters.
4. Groupspeak or groupthink, veneration of certain ideas or leaders, pressure to conform.(JREF, BFRO, BFF)
5.Cult members like to reassure themselves in collective self-delusion that they are superior, even denouncing other groups as being cults and/or congratulating themselves on being rational and objective and even trumpeting their own non-cultism. ( JREF, BFRO, BFF)
6. Authoritarian leadership patterns. (MM)

[AttorneyTom]

In summary.. they make things up and become hysterical about their claims to prove themselves correct. The Cult of BF.. histrionics, self absorbed, definsive, narcassitic, low self esteem, poor judgment, and easily manipulatated.

Sad. No self thinking or understanding.

[River]

#1 Comparison between religion and bigfootery.

Russell's Teapot.

#2:



The "church" of BFF and BFRO, TBRC etc (tbrc are a tax exempt entity also) all have great stories and "experiences" to bring folks. Proof? Not so much. Even though they seem to find bigfoot wherever they go, they still have nothing to identify such a thing. Bigfoot must be a ghost. Real beings leave real stuff behind. Real beings perish. Everyone knows ghosts are real right. Bigfoot is a ghost. It's telekinesis and glowing eyes, it's ability to scare bored house wives and make grown men act a fool is contagious. It's fun! Entertaining... people still love werewolf and vampire movies. If I had to pick a guy that I would want to profit from something like "bigfoot"... it would be a guy like Patterson. I think even though he was not so great at paying bills or debts, he still had some close friends. (still does!) I think that is how the "mystery" lasted so long, and then after his death Gimlin needed to get paid to continue it. I'd bet that he had to sign some sort of NDA or waiver in order to get his percent.

Anyhow, the forums are a great way to weigh in on how bigfoot is sold to the public. The part that is troubling to me are the people that may spend their lives ridiculed or suffer some social and perhaps financial difficulties because of spending time and money looking for this mythical creature that they have been convinced is real by the liars and cons.

That is more how I see it. I think some people do truly believe, and may believe they have seen something. We here at the JREF know of cases where people have "seen things" like bigfoots and its been shown to be a delusional person, or just a plain old lie. The only thing that has never occured is one single story, footprint, hair, film or otherwise lead to the actual animal. (because there is none to be found, and yes I'd be happy to "eat crow" on that one proponents. Show me the actual monkey! lol) *crickets*


"I has a baseball"

[mikeyx]

Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch

The BFF is like a church for us bleevers. Jk lol

With blind devotion by some to the Melba/Meldrum (cough>mulder<cough), yes, it is church time. He and his will deny this, read it for yourself.