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Old 24th January 2013, 04:09 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
PGF, Elbe Trackway, Bigfoot in a Cooler, Daisy in a Box, Justin Smeja Bigfoot Baggery, Melba Ketchup DNA Duplicity, Blueberry Bagel Bigfoot Breakfast, Kentucky Primate Pancake Proffering . . . Whether it's AD/HD or something else, I think they'll keep it up just fine; I think there is very little many of these folks won't buy into.
I know what your saying and I understand they will keep on coming for a long while yet, the difference with the TBRC is its on going, so I am wondering how long it will be before they have to change things, give up or get busted.

Tim
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Old 24th January 2013, 06:20 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by mustbeso View Post
I am in agreement with this basically but I think it best that we call it theater(of the absurd?). I think they are people playing a part with a few stooges who might actually think there are woodapes running around...


Yeah, it's a fantasy camp. These people know there's no wood apes scaring them. It's an open air ghost house ride. It's Bigfoot paintball. With helmets and stuff.
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Old 24th January 2013, 07:36 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by RedRatSnake View Post
I know what your saying and I understand they will keep on coming for a long while yet, the difference with the TBRC is its on going, so I am wondering how long it will be before they have to change things, give up or get busted.

Tim

They will probably attempt to carry it on as long as possible. It's not like they are staying in the area full time, or have anything to show for their "research and conservation" or whatever other ******** their statement says.

I love how they are claiming to have seen a wood ape. (specifically Brian Brown and Kathy Strain) When in reality all they claimed to have seen was furry blur apparently. Heck yes, we seen em!

I've seen Bipto make posts saying something to the effect of: "either we're lying or blah blah blah blah. Yep, you're a good story teller Brian. You can pull some leg with the best of em. Good job. *pats on back*

We all know how this is going to end. I have little faith that any of the "pros" out there really believe. Even Meldrum starts to look shady these days when he speaks. Maybe it comes from lying so much? You have to be a good liar to sell the bigfoot thing. Ask MM!
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Old 24th January 2013, 07:57 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by River View Post

We all know how this is going to end. I have little faith that any of the "pros" out there really believe. Even Meldrum starts to look shady these days when he speaks. Maybe it comes from lying so much? You have to be a good liar to sell the bigfoot thing. Ask MM!
I think at this point you are right about faith, these people are not stupid in any way, they latched onto a subject that can make a few $ bucks and help pay the bills.
I don't see it as any different than folks down my way selling stuff about the Pilgrims and how they landed on Plymouth Rock, they have a rock and everything but we know it is not true, in the summer its packed and little souvenir rocks are sold by the thousands, you have people that swear it went down that way cause they are relatives, you have native Indians still screaming about how the pilgrims treated them and protesting every thanksgiving.

It's no wonder we have crypto animals running a mock on this earth, when the humans that live here can't figure out most all of the stories we have as history are a myth.

Tim
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Old 25th January 2013, 03:48 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by River View Post
I love how they are claiming to have seen a wood ape. (specifically Brian Brown and Kathy Strain) When in reality all they claimed to have seen was furry blur apparently. Heck yes, we seen em!

I've seen Bipto make posts saying something to the effect of: "either we're lying or blah blah blah blah.
Brian Brown makes that comment, IIRC, to protest the idea they are victims of a third party hoax.

I take him at his word. He and Kathy Strain are liars/hoaxers/storytellers, etc.
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Old 25th January 2013, 05:06 PM   #206
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I'm not sure you folks realize you're just playing into all the BS by also using the stupid term Wood Ape. Wood Ape? Really? WTF is a Wood Ape? Bigfoot? Almost Bigfoot? Approximately Bigfoot, but more woody and apey? A new term for an old beast so the recycling of all the old Bigfoot lore doesn't seem so suspicious? "Yes, but this was a Wood Ape." "Oh, well, since it was a Wood Ape, nevermind." And please don't respond saying 'that's the term they use blah blah blah.' If you do, you're an idiot.
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Old 25th January 2013, 05:13 PM   #207
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Thank you for pointing out how stupid we are.
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Old 25th January 2013, 05:35 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by HarryHenderson View Post
I'm not sure you folks realize you're just playing into all the BS by also using the stupid term Wood Ape. Wood Ape? Really? WTF is a Wood Ape? Bigfoot? Almost Bigfoot? Approximately Bigfoot, but more woody and apey? A new term for an old beast so the recycling of all the old Bigfoot lore doesn't seem so suspicious? "Yes, but this was a Wood Ape." "Oh, well, since it was a Wood Ape, nevermind." And please don't respond saying 'that's the term they use blah blah blah.' If you do, you're an idiot.
Guilty as charged. I like "Wood Ape." It brings out the enchantment, the romance, of the mystery. Hell, that's what mystery mongering BS is good for.
Reminds me of how I felt when I was a kid huddled up with old Ivan T. as he wrote about the Ruby Creek incident or the Crew tracks.

For some reason, and I do not know why, I just can't get angry about Ivan T. or ole Roger Patterson or Dahinden, and etc. They seriously misled me, for sure. But thinking back on them, I tend to catch myself smiling. They are forgiven.

So, shoot me.
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Old 25th January 2013, 05:58 PM   #209
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I thought they used the term to justify shooting what they consider to be an animal since about half of the footers consider "bigfoot" to be in the human family.

I suppose it's the same reason that a monkey's appendages are referred to as paws, same difference, other than the fact that monkeys happen to be real.
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Old 25th January 2013, 06:00 PM   #210
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IMHO ~ I think by changing it to WA, it sent up more red flags because it is an obvious dodge away from the norm, not only that but, now there is yet another description of the creature that has not followed the basic formula of a chunky Patty, so many different Bigfoot's, so little to support any of them.

Tim
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Old 25th January 2013, 06:04 PM   #211
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Wood Ape sounds more legit than Bigfoot; too legit to quit.

I say we call 'em Woody.
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Old 25th January 2013, 06:40 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Wood Ape sounds more legit than Bigfoot; too legit to quit.

I say we call 'em Woody.


heh heh, yeah "wood" apes. he said wood beavis! heh heh heh heh. The apes got wood!
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Old 26th January 2013, 05:00 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Wood Ape sounds more legit than Bigfoot; too legit to quit.

I say we call 'em Woody.
Surf's Up!!

I bought a '30 Ford wagon and we call it a woody
Surf City, here we come
You know it's not very cherry, it's an oldie but a goodie
Surf City, here we come
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Old 26th January 2013, 06:19 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
Surf's Up!!

I bought a '30 Ford wagon and we call it a woody
Surf City, here we come
You know it's not very cherry, it's an oldie but a goodie
Surf City, here we come
Woody driving a Woody. Now that's a t-shirt.
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Old 26th January 2013, 07:42 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
I thought they used the term to justify shooting what they consider to be an animal since about half of the footers consider "bigfoot" to be in the human family.

I suppose it's the same reason that a monkey's appendages are referred to as paws, same difference, other than the fact that monkeys happen to be real.
Interesting point. I know that some advocates, like Green or Meldrum, do not like "Bigfoot." It does have its plural problem: Bigfoot, Bigfoots, Bigfeet. A little known fact: when odd, human-like tracks surfaced in a big media way in Northern California in the late 1950's, locals had no idea what to make of them. Some thought they belonged to a virtually giant Indian lad who had previously been chained up by his parents (he was alleged to be mentally impaired). Some thought the prints were made by a young fellow, who when he was young, wondered off from a local CCC camp and never was seen again. The kid was 6ft. 7in. and growing. Others thought the tracks were made by Lemurians, a race of advanced giants said to live underground. It was Green who visited the site and proclaimed the tracks those of apes.

"Saquatch" is generally preferred, Green migrated the term in popularity south of the border down states way, but it is a word made up by Burns back in the 20's, for an alleged tribe of giant Indians (coming full circle to Paulides and Ketchum).

I think the TBRC see themselves as mavericks and reset the clock, so to speak, with a new coinage. Remember, too, they have encountered the Apes of Oklahoma and it turns out they were right about the Wood Ape name. Funny how that worked out for them.
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Old 26th January 2013, 03:20 PM   #216
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That and Brian is a PR person by trade, I believe, I'm sure the conotations for "Wood Ape" and the goal of the TBRC didn't escape his notice.
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Old 26th January 2013, 03:22 PM   #217
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Brian Brown - Owner of the digital marketing agency Ideapark, TBRC Marketing Director, TBRC Board of Directors, TBRC Field Investigator.

http://www.slideshare.net/Silverpop/...-email-sharing
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Old 26th January 2013, 05:33 PM   #218
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LOLOL....well I wasn't far off, on the slide for 8 noteworthy "something or other" it mentions tapping into your tribal base....that about sums up participation on the BFF even if it isn't e-mail per say, it is "sharing". But I think he needs to re-evaluate why it gives his group validity (mirror, mirror on the wall pic).
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Old 27th January 2013, 12:28 AM   #219
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<SHOT HIM>

Just as a little courtesy reminder for everyone who missed class last week due to their attendance at the Greater Downtown Dubuque 51st Annual WOOD APE Symposium, the 'phenomenon' is about an IMAGINARY BEAST.

So anyway, why not Peanut Butter and Jelly Ape? Better yet, Carbon Fiber Ape? Enchanting Ape? Whoops, just remembered, most people that hallucinate, daydream or otherwise fantasize about seeing MAN-APES - for some reason or another - do it with a regular reference to the WOODS. Yes, got it, WOOD APE, makes sense now. How could I be so obtuse! While we're at it, maybe we should come up with a new name for the Unicorn too? Freshen up its image? Make it more 'fun' to say? Unicorn isn't so plural friendly either. When I finally see a herd of them, I'll want to refer to them properly, right?! Say something a little more 'horsey'? What about an ironic name like Pokey? Or, I got it, Hendersons Horny Horse. I mean, it does look like a horse.

Maybe I'm being 'thrown' by how much value/credence so many of you appear to give to the iterations and credibility of these Bigfoot Fantasy Folks™ (BFFs). Mention Matt Moneymaker, many of you probably say "Eh, but I like the show". Yet mention Tom Biscardi and a likely instantaneous explosion of outrage and righteousness follows. As if Biscardi has done even a fraction of a fraction of a percentage of Moneymaker's Bigfoot misdeeds. Yeah wow, he held a few phoney news conferences. "He lied to us." What an evil sum *****. But Moneymaker, who has an internationally distributed network ******* TV show about FINDING BIGFOOT that's on every week almost gets a pass. How does that work exactly?

As if nowadays it's all just a big, friendly, politically correct game still called Popular Bigfooting, but where the notion of 'winning or losing' was thrown out with last year's election. Too win-ee and lose-ee. "C'mon guys, it's so simple. Maybe you need a refresher course. It's all about ball bearings nowadays." It's about making everybody equal and not deliberately offending anyone whilst dancing around the keyboard creepily memorizing the names, places, affiliations and Kryptonite™ ratings of such established and up & coming Go-To™ Bigfoot players who claim anything more than a casual affiliation with an actual beast?

Maybe there's a whole lot more fantasizing about Bigfoot's genuine existence going on with the folks HERE than I've realized. Seriously. I thought the 'problem' was the Muldur and Sweaty types.

I understand more now why a 10 million dollar Bigfoot bounty doesn't interest anyone here (like it should). Yet criticism of the simple term 'wood ape' elicits an almost righteous indignation. Hey I understand, 10 million dollars would totally **** up the precious Bigfoot world's equilibrium. Mum's the word.

Still <shaking head>
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Old 27th January 2013, 06:01 AM   #220
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I agree with you, but I'm second guessing mostivations based on the subject's presumed belief and the ulterior motive of profit rather than real discovery, because they know it doesn't exist. Why should I invest money to win 10 million to seek a creature that doesn't exist?

You also have to consider the fact that most of the ones we discuss are members here whether they ever post or not, they are certainly here reading every word we write.

Why? So they can hit the report button every time anyone gets a smidge close to the truth. Why do you think the threads are all on moderation right now? It isn't because we are reporting each other, I can assure you.
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Old 27th January 2013, 06:23 AM   #221
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I'll never understand the anger.

I do not think Bigfoot/Wood Ape/Sasquatch/Yeti/Yowie/Abominable Snowman or any living man-ape exist.

I do not reduce this issue to one motivated by financial gain. I do not reduce this issue to one of mental impairment.

This issue is far more complicated and nuanced. There is no simple resolution.

I'll never understand the anger.
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Old 27th January 2013, 12:06 PM   #222
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I don't understand it either. If someone told me they didn't like chocolate ice cream, I'ld be amazed, but not angry. That's how I would view it, but these people get majorly pissed off because you don't like their chocolate ice cream.
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Old 27th January 2013, 12:11 PM   #223
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It's because, secretly, deep down, they know their little fairy tale is just that: make believe.

and nobody likes facing the reality of that
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Old 27th January 2013, 01:50 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by StankApe View Post
It's because, secretly, deep down, they know their little fairy tale is just that: make believe.

and nobody likes facing the reality of that
My point was directed more to my fellow skeptics who reduce Bigfoot phenomena to lying, craziness, or money grabs, and seem to get angry if anyone doesn't toe the line and thinks the issue is more complex.
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Old 27th January 2013, 03:10 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by jerrywayne View Post
My point was directed more to my fellow skeptics who reduce Bigfoot phenomena to lying, craziness, or money grabs, and seem to get angry if anyone doesn't toe the line and thinks the issue is more complex.
Perhaps you might expound on some of these complexities.
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Old 27th January 2013, 03:10 PM   #226
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It is a complex issue, if you look at the history of just females involved in bigfoot world you tend to notice that most have a pattern of some kind of abuse in their history. That percentage is much higher than it ought to be when compared to statistics I'm familiar with, but I can't seem to make a connection as to why that would predispose someone to the topic. I can make the connection with the abuse one can endure from the community in general as that pattern tends to repeat itself.
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Old 27th January 2013, 03:19 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by jerrywayne View Post
My point was directed more to my fellow skeptics who reduce Bigfoot phenomena to lying, craziness, or money grabs, and seem to get angry if anyone doesn't toe the line and thinks the issue is more complex.
I could care less what folks believe as long as they don't throw a complete crazy fit when I point out some of the flaws in their theories....
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Old 27th January 2013, 03:50 PM   #228
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No matter where you go in life, you will find rational people who can reasonably discuss most subjects. However, they may have blind spots in certain areas where rationality just flies out of the window. When it comes to one of these specific subjects, then it's a complete waste of time to attempt to remedy that with debate. You simply can't replace what either evolution, or the creator of choice, depending on the person's preference, left out.
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Old 27th January 2013, 04:02 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by jerrywayne View Post
My point was directed more to my fellow skeptics who reduce Bigfoot phenomena to lying, craziness, or money grabs, and seem to get angry if anyone doesn't toe the line and thinks the issue is more complex.
Sasfooty is either crazy or lying or both. There is no nuance about it.

If you read the pinned thread at BFF it seems fairly obvious Brian Brown is making the **** up as he goes. It is, in his words, a total lie.

Ketchum it is now obvious was a scam from the beginnning, bilking a fool out of hundres of G's.

The BF world is rife with hoaxes and money plays.

Just what is so complex about the world of BF?
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Old 27th January 2013, 04:54 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by clayflingythingy View Post
Sasfooty is either crazy or lying or both. There is no nuance about it.

If you read the pinned thread at BFF it seems fairly obvious Brian Brown is making the **** up as he goes. It is, in his words, a total lie.

Ketchum it is now obvious was a scam from the beginnning, bilking a fool out of hundres of G's.

The BF world is rife with hoaxes and money plays.

Just what is so complex about the world of BF?
I did not say such elements do not exist in Bigfootery. What I said is that you can not reduce the entire phenomena to lies, mental impairment, or money motivations. To do so is to "refute" it or "explain" it too easily.

I do not know Sasfooty but I do not think she is experiencing what she claims, or thinks, she is.

I have challenged Brian Brown at BFF myself. I know what he is claiming. If he is lying, then shame on him. Reading what he claims to have experienced in his own words, I am more inclined to believe he believes. He is a Believer, and that makes him blind to certain obvious explanations for what he is experiencing.

Likewise, Ketchum may be a scam artist, or another true believer who is blind to what the data tells her, and what hoaxers have shown her.

I would like to emphasise this: True Believers gravitate to what validates their beliefs. This is true of Bigfoot enthusiasts, devoutly religious people, political junkies (Fox News, anyone?) and so on and so on. This is one level of complexity that is ignored when you reduce the issue to lying, nuttiness, or money grabs.

Another level of complexity is the formation and continuance of folkloric beliefs. I used to think cryptozoology was valid and should be formally declared a branch of zoology. Now I see it as neo-folklore, a creation of a new bestiary to replace ancient beliefs in dragons, unicorns, and the like. If modern knowledge and understanding have not killed off fanciful bestiaries, then there may be an innate need to believe in monsters. This added complexity is not even entertained or considered if you reduce the issue to lying, nuttiness, or money grabs.

I think most Bigfooters are motivated by discovery. They think they are part of an intellectual and physical pursuit that will lead to advancing our knowledge of the world. They are fooled, I think, by the apparent grounding of the phenomena in the element of wild life and nature. As an imagined natural event, Bigfoot is almost palpable compared to ghosts, UFO's, and other more mystical things. One would get no sense of this part of the Bigfoot story if it is reduced to lies, nuttiness, and money grabs.

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Old 27th January 2013, 04:58 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by clayflingythingy View Post
Ketchum it is now obvious was a scam from the beginnning, bilking a fool out of hundres of G's.
I wonder if the National Examiner is paying her?

Tim
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Old 27th January 2013, 05:16 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by jerrywayne View Post
My point was directed more to my fellow skeptics who reduce Bigfoot phenomena to lying, craziness, or money grabs, and seem to get angry if anyone doesn't toe the line and thinks the issue is more complex.
More complex if you are into that sort of thing, I keep things simple and don't get into trying to figure out what's in people's minds, I just look at the street angle of what's going on and I see a lot of craziness and money grabbers, I also see a huge connection to religion and fantasy, but over all I suspect it's just the human need to find something you click with and go with it, Footers for the most part are pretty humble as long as you are on their side, so I can see how it can be an attraction away from life's daily grind, that would explain why they are so defensive when you rattle things around them.

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Old 27th January 2013, 07:43 PM   #233
clayflingythingy
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Originally Posted by jerrywayne View Post
I have challenged Brian Brown at BFF myself. I know what he is claiming. If he is lying, then shame on him. Reading what he claims to have experienced in his own words, I am more inclined to believe he believes. He is a Believer, and that makes him blind to certain obvious explanations for what he is experiencing.

Likewise, Ketchum may be a scam artist, or another true believer who is blind to what the data tells her, and what hoaxers have shown her.
Maybe I have grown more cynical over time. Some years back I think I would have been more open to the idea that Brian Brown was guilty of wishful thinking or that Ketchum was incompetent.

However, years of lurking the BFF, and watching bleevers post here has convinced me that when it comes to BF one must suspect lies and deception first and foremost.

Based on this I find it far more likely that Brian Brown and Kathy Strain are liars than the victims of a third party hoax.

Given the dollars the the fool has reportedly shelled out to ketchum it is equally obvious Ketchum was a scam artist from the get go.

I no longer give benefit of the doubt to anything related to BF.
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Old 27th January 2013, 10:46 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by jerrywayne View Post
<snip>
I have challenged Brian Brown at BFF myself. I know what he is claiming. If he is lying, then shame on him. Reading what he claims to have experienced in his own words, I am more inclined to believe he believes. He is a Believer, and that makes him blind to certain obvious explanations for what he is experiencing.
<snip>
Well, shame on Brian Brown because he is a liar.

jerrywayne...Do you actually believe the horsepucky regarding the DNA sample supposedly sent for analysis from the "blood" found sometime after the multiple shotgun blast fiasco?

The fact that he is obviously blatantly lying regarding the story surrounding the "attempted" DNA analysis is reason enough to brand the whole "Operation Persistence" a complete and utter lie.
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Old 28th January 2013, 05:24 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by jerrywayne View Post
I did not say such elements do not exist in Bigfootery. What I said is that you can not reduce the entire phenomena to lies, mental impairment, or money motivations. To do so is to "refute" it or "explain" it too easily.
Perpetuating the folklore are those that understand Barnum's maxim; beguiling the credulous for profit is a long-standing business model and many times the credules share part of the blame in this deception.

While it is true that not every enthusiast falls into the categories of deluded, hoaxer and liar, an awful lot do, and even those who seem to legitimately believe in what they or others have seen (and "know") are loathe to admit to the limits, foibles, and failures of human cognition.

"I know what I saw!"

Well, maybe not. Likely not.
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Old 28th January 2013, 06:01 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
It is a complex issue, if you look at the history of just females involved in bigfoot world you tend to notice that most have a pattern of some kind of abuse in their history.
I have a feeling we might all regret this, but . . . whaa? You've done some kind of a survey of female bigfooters, compared that incidence rates of abuse among the general population, and found a significantly higher rate of abuse history among the sample of women who like bigfoot stories?
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Old 28th January 2013, 04:12 PM   #237
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It was something Cervelo and I discussed once. We were talking about women well known in the bigfoot world. It seems that most have some kind of history of child or spousal abuse. Then as I got to know some of the female BFF members a little better it was something I noticed, most had a history of spousal abuse. It was a lot more common than general population statistics would indicate, yes.
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Old 28th January 2013, 08:16 PM   #238
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Some heavy stuff and something I never got notice of, I do think women are a minority in this BF thing so maybe they stand out more when they get involved, and the women that are into it seem to get that celebrity status a little quicker or again just stand out better, I haven't seen many women getting those key reports in or having any good encounters that last very long, basically IMHO women can write and come across better in some cases that the average male footer so they seem to have an elevated status, but all in all women aside from adding their opinion don't seem to have had the encounters that could explain past personal problems, like us all it's just curiosity in the subject and no more.

I guess me being me could say it's redneck trailer park spousal abuse in most cases, but I don't want to link that with having a BF fascination, my guess would be it's Nascar related ~ lol

Tim

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Old 28th January 2013, 08:21 PM   #239
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I have noticed that women are far and away the leaders when it comes to habituation claims.

What does this say? that women are more likely to create fantasy worlds for attention? Or that it's simply a coping mechanism for mental illness or past abuse?

Could be an interesting PHD thesis in psychology
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Old 29th January 2013, 06:11 AM   #240
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Originally Posted by StankApe View Post
I have noticed that women are far and away the leaders when it comes to habituation claims.

What does this say? that women are more likely to create fantasy worlds for attention? Or that it's simply a coping mechanism for mental illness or past abuse?

Could be an interesting PHD thesis in psychology
Interesting pathology no doubt.

What I find facinating is the spittle-flecked invective directed at skeptics and scientists that don't buy into the footer's boutique fantasy. Acceptance is but a specimen away and many in the community claim to know exactly where this primate lives; so . . . go and get a specimen.

Ask why this hasn't happened and excuses (and hilarity) ensue.
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