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Old 1st December 2012, 12:44 PM   #1
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Corporate Profits At All Time High:

Corporate Profits After Tax (CP)



Waiting for the trickle down to start. Any day now that money has to start making it's way down to the rest of us. That is how it works right?
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Old 1st December 2012, 12:47 PM   #2
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Then there is the stock market.

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I wonder if they'd think I'd flipped.
If I went to LA, via Omaha.
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Old 1st December 2012, 12:50 PM   #3
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Corporate profits are up. Stock market is up. Is there anyone out there that does not get why the "job creators" are so damn upset at Obama?
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Old 1st December 2012, 12:55 PM   #4
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Obamacare yet undefined, EPA out of control, "You didn't build that", etc.

What would make you believe it's a good time to hire more staff or even expand production?
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Old 1st December 2012, 12:59 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by AlBell View Post
Obamacare yet undefined, EPA out of control, "You didn't build that", etc.
First off, these are all assertions and I think thoroughly debunked. But for the purpose of this discussion I'll take the null hypothesis. Citation please? (I reject your premises as fatuous right-wing rhetoric and I find them laughable but I'll give you a chance to make your case).

Quote:
What would make you believe it's a good time to hire more staff or even expand production?
So let me see, supply side economics is so fragile just about anything can disrupt the apple cart, right? Dude there will ALWAYS be uncertainty. By your logic supply side economics cannot work because we can never remove uncertainty from the equation.
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Old 1st December 2012, 01:02 PM   #6
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BTW:

Originally Posted by AlBell View Post
"You didn't build that", etc.
What the sam hell is this supposed to mean? Did you really so easily drink the kool-aid? That was thoroughly debunked.
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Old 1st December 2012, 01:19 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by AlBell View Post
Obamacare yet undefined, EPA out of control, "You didn't build that", etc.

What would make you believe it's a good time to hire more staff or even expand production?
Well if the EPA is out of control it sounds like an excelent time to get involved in the waste management industry.
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Old 1st December 2012, 01:41 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by geni View Post
Originally Posted by AlBell
EPA out of control
Well if the EPA is out of control it sounds like an excelent time to get involved in the waste management industry.
If the EPA is "out of control" how is it that corporate profits and the stock market are up? Sounds like ad hoc rationalization to me. It also sounds like poisoning the well for debates about climate change.
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Old 1st December 2012, 01:44 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
Corporate profits are up. Stock market is up. Is there anyone out there that does not get why the "job creators" are so damn upset at Obama?
I was going to ask the same question. Why would the people who are doing so well financially believe they would do better with someone else as Pres?

Did they tell their lies so often they truly believe them?

Are they really that greedy they just want more?

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Old 1st December 2012, 01:45 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by AlBell View Post
Obamacare yet undefined, EPA out of control, "You didn't build that", etc.

What would make you believe it's a good time to hire more staff or even expand production?
So, chalk one up to "believes the lies".
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Old 1st December 2012, 01:52 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
Corporate Profits After Tax (CP)

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1...ateprofits.png

Waiting for the trickle down to start. Any day now that money has to start making it's way down to the rest of us. That is how it works right?
Let's see... The economy is improving, unemployment is going down... What did you expect "trickle down" to look like? A fat check in your Christmas stocking, in the value of "your share of corporate profits", countersigned by The Corporations?

Or is it now that the election is over, suddenly it's safe to say the economy hasn't really improved that much, and Obama should have done more to convince corporations to Do Their Part?
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Old 1st December 2012, 02:04 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Let's see... The economy is improving, unemployment is going down... What did you expect "trickle down" to look like? A fat check in your Christmas stocking, in the value of "your share of corporate profits", countersigned by The Corporations?
What should it look like?

Quote:
Or is it now that the election is over, suddenly it's safe to say the economy hasn't really improved that much, and Obama should have done more to convince corporations to Do Their Part?
Who is saying ANYTHING differently now than before the election? Sure as hell isn't me. What is safe to say is that there is very little correlation between increased profits of corporations and an increase in the stock market and increased wealth for the lower classes. When the rich get richer it means just that and not much more.



I'm happy for you to show me how I'm wrong. But let's be clear here, you are not going to win the day with rhetorical questions. Could you pony your belly up to the bar and make an argument backed by empirical data?
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Old 1st December 2012, 02:43 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
Could you pony your belly up to the bar and make an argument backed by empirical data?
Good luck with that.

Like I said in another thread. There don't seem to be any intellectually honest Republicans/conservatives left at JREF any more.
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Old 1st December 2012, 03:12 PM   #14
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Clearly all of those lazy deadbeats in the lower income brackets need to get off the sofa and form muti-billion dollar corporations. Duh.
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Old 1st December 2012, 03:20 PM   #15
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Attention, please!

If anyone actually believes in the old trickle-down theory of economics made very popular through misleading propaganda from Ronald Reagan and his handlers, step forward, please.

None? Didn't think so.

Nice charts in the thread. Gotta love charts.
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Old 1st December 2012, 03:22 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
Corporate profits are up. Stock market is up. Is there anyone out there that does not get why the "job creators" are so damn upset at Obama?
Could it be because they care what happens to their stock holders? Is profit wrong?
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Old 1st December 2012, 03:31 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
Could it be because they care what happens to their stock holders?
I'm not sure I know what this means or its relevance. Could you explain?

Quote:
Is profit wrong?
Did I say that profit was wrong?
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Old 1st December 2012, 03:40 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
I'm not sure I know what this means or its relevance. Could you explain?

Did I say that profit was wrong?
I would love to, if you could explain the point of this thread? Are you claiming Obamas policies have brought on these profits?
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Old 1st December 2012, 04:01 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
...

Waiting for the trickle down to start. Any day now that money has to start making it's way down to the rest of us. That is how it works right?
What part of the trickle down are you entitled to, and why ?
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Old 1st December 2012, 04:11 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
I would love to, if you could explain the point of this thread? Are you claiming Obamas policies have brought on these profits?
I'm claiming that there is little or no correlation between increased wealth at the top of the economic ladder with increased wealth at the bottom of the economic ladder. My point is that supply side economics is, as far as I can tell, without any evidence in fact.
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If I went to LA, via Omaha.
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Old 1st December 2012, 04:13 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
What part of the trickle down are you entitled to, and why ?
I'm not sure I understand (unless you are being tongue-in-cheek then I get it). If not then I don't think I'm entitled to anything. I've just never seen any evidence think it works.
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I think I'll reroute my trip
I wonder if they'd think I'd flipped.
If I went to LA, via Omaha.
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Old 1st December 2012, 04:19 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
I'm claiming that there is little or no correlation between increased wealth at the top of the economic ladder with increased wealth at the bottom of the economic ladder. My point is that supply side economics is, as far as I can tell, without any evidence in fact.
So what? What would this have to do with the current administration? Why did you bring it up?
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Old 1st December 2012, 04:19 PM   #23
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Rand, just curious: don't you think this thread belongs in the ecnomics sub forum?

As to profits being up, those companies the did not get felled by the recession in the past few years seem to have found novel ways to cut costs or pick up assets at fire sale prices. That may contribute to some of the profit increases.

Or it may not be that simple, when you look at the numbers you posted at the macro / aggregate level, which you have done.

Did your sources break it down by sector and industry?
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Old 1st December 2012, 04:28 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
So what?
"So"? So, I wanted to point out the facts and discuss them. Is that against my membership agreement?

Quote:
What would this have to do with the current administration?
Absolutely nothing. Why do you ask?

Quote:
Why did you bring it up?
Let me make this simple for you. I bring up things I wish to discuss (I wish to discuss this). If you are not interested then please to ignore this thread. Why does this thread interest you or, why does it bother you?
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I think I'll reroute my trip
I wonder if they'd think I'd flipped.
If I went to LA, via Omaha.

Last edited by RandFan; 1st December 2012 at 04:29 PM.
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Old 1st December 2012, 04:35 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
Rand, just curious: don't you think this thread belongs in the ecnomics sub forum?
Probably.

Quote:
As to profits being up, those companies the did not get felled by the recession in the past few years seem to have found novel ways to cut costs or pick up assets at fire sale prices. That may contribute to some of the profit increases.

Or it may not be that simple, when you look at the numbers you posted at the macro / aggregate level, which you have done.

Did your sources break it down by sector and industry?
Could you point me to the part of the hypothesis of supply side economics that stipulates that it only works for some industries?

Again, let me keep this simple, I don't think there is any evidence of a correlation between increased wealth at the top of the economic ladder with increased wealth at the bottom. Sure the hypothesis (supply side economics) could be viable and I could be ignoring some key variable. I honestly don't know. I know it's one more example of there being no correlation.
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I think I'll reroute my trip
I wonder if they'd think I'd flipped.
If I went to LA, via Omaha.
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Old 1st December 2012, 04:36 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
I'm not sure I understand (unless you are being tongue-in-cheek then I get it). If not then I don't think I'm entitled to anything. I've just never seen any evidence think it works.
You said you were waiting for the trickle down to start.

Why are you waiting for that to happen ?


By the way, did your sources indicate whether profit margins were up ?
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Old 1st December 2012, 04:38 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
Corporate profits are up. Stock market is up. Is there anyone out there that does not get why the "job creators" are so damn upset at Obama?

Originally Posted by DGM View Post
What would this have to do with the current administration?
The thread isn't about Obama. I added this post as an afterthought. I think the outrage directed at Obama is absurd given the facts.
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I think I'll reroute my trip
I wonder if they'd think I'd flipped.
If I went to LA, via Omaha.
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Old 1st December 2012, 04:43 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
"So"? So, I wanted to point out the facts and discuss them. Is that against my membership agreement?
It doesn't, I wonder why you bring it up.

Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
Let me make this simple for you. I bring up things I wish to discuss (I wish to discuss this). If you are not interested then please to ignore this thread. Why does this thread interest you or, why does it bother you?
I wonder why you made this comment if it has nothing to do with the current administration:

Quote:
Corporate profits are up. Stock market is up. Is there anyone out there that does not get why the "job creators" are so damn upset at Obama?
Were you venting or just hoping for fan support?
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Old 1st December 2012, 04:46 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
You said you were waiting for the trickle down to start.

Why are you waiting for that to happen ?
It's called a rhetorical device. You can find out more about them at wiki.

Quote:
By the way, did your sources indicate whether profit margins were up ?
I honestly don't know. Is it claimed by the proponents of supply side economics that it only works when profit margins are high? Do you have some reason to believe that profit margins are down given the austerity of the past 5-6 years of downsizing and reducing corporate debt? Do you have some data showing that supply side economics is correlated with higher revenue at the bottom rung of the economic ladder when profit margins are high?
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I wonder if they'd think I'd flipped.
If I went to LA, via Omaha.
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Old 1st December 2012, 04:49 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
I wonder why you bring it up.
And I explained it to you.

Quote:
Were you venting or just hoping for fan support?
See post #27

So, I've answered your questions and you've not at all contributed. If you continue in this vain I will report you as being OT. Fair enough?
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I think I'll reroute my trip
I wonder if they'd think I'd flipped.
If I went to LA, via Omaha.

Last edited by RandFan; 1st December 2012 at 04:51 PM.
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Old 1st December 2012, 04:50 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
The thread isn't about Obama. I added this post as an afterthought. I think the outrage directed at Obama is absurd given the facts.
What facts would that be? Are you telling me Obamas policy are pro corporate profits?
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Old 1st December 2012, 04:52 PM   #32
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Quote:
Do you have some data showing that supply side economics is correlated with higher revenue at the bottom rung of the economic ladder when profit margins are high?

I'm not making any claims about the benefits of supply side economics.. You'll have to wait till someone shows up, who is.

I'm also not the one throwing out data and suggesting it means something.

Do you understand the significance of profit margins in relation to total profits?
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Old 1st December 2012, 04:53 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
What facts would that be?
  • Corporate profits are up.
  • The stock market is up.
Quote:
Are you telling me Obamas policy are pro corporate profits?
I'm telling you that corporate profits are up in-spite of or because of Obama.
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I wonder if they'd think I'd flipped.
If I went to LA, via Omaha.
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Old 1st December 2012, 04:57 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Do you understand the significance of profit margins in relation to total profits?
I wrote and maintained accounting software for over 40 years and I still have a few clients. I was also an auditor for 7-8 years. I know how to calculate profit margins and I understand the relationship of profit margins to totals profits.
  • I've answered your questions.
  • You have ignored mine.
I won't answer anymore of your questions if you are going to bear me the contempt of simply ignoring that which you find uncomfortable. Fair enough?
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Old 1st December 2012, 04:59 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
  • Corporate profits are up.
  • The stock market is up.
I'm telling you that corporate profits are up in-spite of or because of Obama.
So you really have no point to discuss. You're just stating fact.

What do you want to talk about?
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Old 1st December 2012, 04:59 PM   #36
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Let's try this again.

Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
  1. Is it claimed by the proponents of supply side economics that it only works when profit margins are high?
  2. Do you have some reason to believe that profit margins are down given the austerity of the past 5-6 years of downsizing and reducing corporate debt?
  3. Do you have some data showing that supply side economics is correlated with higher revenue at the bottom rung of the economic ladder when profit margins are high?
Here's hoping for mutual respect in our discussion.
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I wonder if they'd think I'd flipped.
If I went to LA, via Omaha.
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Old 1st December 2012, 04:59 PM   #37
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Personal and Corporate Taxes need to be reset



Personal and corporate tax rates need to be reset to what they were under
President Eisenhower, the last fiscal conservative we had in the USA.
The $32 Trillion that has been hidden in illegal offshore accounts since
1971 (the end of the gold standard) needs to be repatriated to the
USA.

What they are currently arguing about on Capitol Hill is small change.

It may take a revolution to fix what is wrong in the USA today.

Last edited by StuartSymington; 1st December 2012 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 1st December 2012, 05:01 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by StuartSymington View Post


Personal and corporate tax rates need to be rest to what they were under
President Eisenhower. The last Fiscal conservative we had in the USA.
The $32 Trillion that has been hidden in illegal offshore accounts since
1971 (the end of the gold standard) needs to be repatriated to the
USA.

What they are currently arguing about on Capitol Hill is small change.

It may take a revolution to fix what is wrong in the USA today.
Welcome and wrong thread (sub-forum).
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Old 1st December 2012, 05:02 PM   #39
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More fuel for this futile discussion.
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Old 1st December 2012, 05:04 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
Here's hoping for mutual respect in our discussion.
Why are you posting this in current events? I'm asking for it to be moved.
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