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Old 8th December 2012, 06:39 AM   #1
phiwum
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Quick question: what's this about moors?

I notice that, when watching FMOTL videos on Youtube, other videos involving "moors" in court are suggested. Is this a related bit of legal woo which also happens to have a racial component or something?

In http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDLbZxZ301s, the legal woo guy actually asks the judge for her nationality (or was it race?) at some point, so evidently, ancestry matters for these people.

[ETA: I'm not sure whether the term "moor" ought to be capitalized in plain, normal, not legal-woo English. Some racial or ethnic terms seem to be capitalized, others not.]

Last edited by phiwum; 8th December 2012 at 06:42 AM. Reason: Capitalization?
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Old 8th December 2012, 07:18 AM   #2
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Try here, for starters
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Old 8th December 2012, 07:29 AM   #3
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So asking a judge about Moorish background is an offhand way of asking if they are Muslim?
How very tea-partyish.
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Old 8th December 2012, 07:56 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
So asking a judge about Moorish background is an offhand way of asking if they are Muslim?
How very tea-partyish.
No, in the video I was watching, the legal woo guy was African-American (Canadian?) and hence a Moor (in, apparently, the preferred terminology of these folk). He was asking the apparently white judge what her ethnicity or nationality (I can't recall which) was. She refused to answer, so I've no idea what the relevance was supposed to be.
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Old 8th December 2012, 08:21 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
No, in the video I was watching, the legal woo guy was African-American (Canadian?) and hence a Moor (in, apparently, the preferred terminology of these folk). He was asking the apparently white judge what her ethnicity or nationality (I can't recall which) was. She refused to answer, so I've no idea what the relevance was supposed to be.


There's a lot of history of the Moorish version of FoTL here:

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informe...eigns-in-black



Quote:
Central to their thesis is a rejection of the 14th Amendment, claiming it merely created a set of “artificial persons… . Black, Negro, Coloreds and African-Americans are not living people; these ‘tags’ are politically and lawfully ‘brands’ that have been put upon the Aboriginal Indigenous Moors of Morocco.” They refer instead to actual treaties made between the United States and Morocco (the traditional home of the Moors) in the late 18th century, which described a category of “Free Moor” who could not be enslaved or subjected to U.S. law, even as other Africans were being packed into ships and sent to the New World as chattel.

They advise Moors not to cooperate with the police or the courts. Government officials, he says, know they have no jurisdiction over Moors — and as long as Moors refuse to comply, there is nothing the courts can do.

Queen Renita Bey, a lecturer on Moorish nationality and sovereignty who is affiliated with a group called the Great Seal Moors, argues that as descendants of “visiting” Europeans who were never granted citizenship by the Moors, white people can never be sovereign in this land. “If they want to be sovereign, they’ve got to go home. They cannot be sovereign here,” she said in a 2008 lecture posted on YouTube. “If you walk into a courtroom and nobody else has the status to be there, automatically challenge the jurisdiction of the court. There’s nothing else that you need to state. There’s nothing else that needs to be said. Stand mute. Let them proceed, because, guess what, they cannot proceed.”
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Old 8th December 2012, 09:05 AM   #6
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The Moor has done his duty; the Moor can go.
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Old 8th December 2012, 09:24 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
The Moor has done his duty; the Moor can go.
Wouldn't FOTL be more of a Fiasco's Conspiracy rather than Fiesco's?
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Old 8th December 2012, 10:09 AM   #8
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It’s the natural cycle of anti-government woo.

Sovereign citizen theory proves a bust so the malcontents move on to the “natural persons are beyond the law” hypothesis. Then detax /tax protester theory rises to the top of the po(o)p charts. When anti-tax theory slides to the bottom of the slag heap of ideas, we see freemanism, become popular. But, now that the fmotl cult’s gurus have delivered too much failure and too many deceptive teachings, one part of the grumbling mob moves on too another steaming heap. . . .Moorish theory.

In the wake of Menard and Clifford’s slide one has to think it is a time for the growth of a new, broad based, theory.

We could have some fun inventing one and depositing the pile on various forums and on YouTube.
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Old 8th December 2012, 10:13 AM   #9
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We in law enforcement have recently been getting intelligence findings about the Moorish Citizen movement, which is as noted above a subset of the Sovereign Citizen thing.

Most of these people might just be dismissed as anti-government whack-jobs, but there is a strong undercurrent of violent action against various agencies; they are especially down on any sort of federal law enforcement.
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Old 8th December 2012, 10:36 AM   #10
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Thanks for all the helpful replies.

Very interesting -- only persons of African descent (i.e., Moors) are really sovereign in the U.S., and all the Europeans who have historically appeared to have an inordinate amount of political power in this nation are in fact powerless to rule over these sovereigns.

It really is an even more sad and bitter fantasy than the traditional freeman crap.
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Old 8th December 2012, 12:02 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Thanks for all the helpful replies.

Very interesting -- only persons of African descent (i.e., Moors) are really sovereign in the U.S., and all the Europeans who have historically appeared to have an inordinate amount of political power in this nation are in fact powerless to rule over these sovereigns.

It really is an even more sad and bitter fantasy than the traditional freeman crap.
Fresh example here.
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Old 8th December 2012, 12:20 PM   #12
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They're very Moorish...
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Old 8th December 2012, 01:05 PM   #13
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Hmm. I would think claiming to be a moor would put you under admiralty law.
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Old 8th December 2012, 01:07 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
It’s the natural cycle of anti-government woo.
If we establish that this happens every 18 months, would it be Moor's Law?
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Old 8th December 2012, 01:39 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Sledge View Post
If we establish that this happens every 18 months, would it be Moor's Law?
I think the whole point is they're not subject to laws.
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Old 8th December 2012, 02:39 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Professor Yaffle View Post
They're very Moorish...
Los moros a las costas.
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Old 8th December 2012, 03:43 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by TjW View Post
Wouldn't FOTL be more of a Fiasco's Conspiracy rather than Fiesco's?
Very nice. You win ten internets.
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Old 9th December 2012, 08:01 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by TjW View Post
I think the whole point is they're not subject to laws.
Exactly. Each successive sov/freeman/detaxer/Moor theory goes the long way around the barn just to get to that same conclusion.

Like the misdirections and chatter in game of three card monte attempts to hide the card shark’s card palming, the pseudo legal babble of these movements is aimed at fooling fmotl/sov rubes into dismissing the certain, binding nature of law.
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Old 9th December 2012, 08:17 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by TjW View Post
I think the whole point is they're not subject to laws.
Well, they are subject to one law - the law that says they're not subject to any laws.

*sits back and watches the heads asplode*
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Old 9th December 2012, 10:37 AM   #20
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"YOU DARE TO BRING MOORS INTO THE ROYAL PRESENCE"?

The Alpha Hotel King Alfonso of Castile in "El Cid" when Charleton Heston brings Moorish allies against the fanatic Beni Youssuf in "El Cid".. Possibly the best epic film ever done.
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Old 10th December 2012, 05:48 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Exactly. Each successive sov/freeman/detaxer/Moor theory goes the long way around the barn just to get to that same conclusion.

Like the misdirections and chatter in game of three card monte attempts to hide the card shark’s card palming, the pseudo legal babble of these movements is aimed at fooling fmotl/sov rubes into dismissing the certain, binding nature of law.


Yes, I like how they take what are essentially the same claims and arguments, then re-apply them to completely different circumstances by just slapping a new coat of paint on the facade.

This is probably the most extreme version. They've taken the substance of the Sovereign Citizen movement, which was an out growth of the avowedly White Power militia movement, and applied it to a mythos that recasts it all as a Black Power movement. Absolutely brilliant in its stupidity.
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Old 10th December 2012, 04:22 PM   #22
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Hmmm, well I claim freeman status on the basis of Scottish Pict, Nac Mac Feegle edict of 417 A.D.
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Old 10th December 2012, 04:40 PM   #23
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Of course when dealing with Spanish History , "Moor" is the term used for the Moslems in Spain, since the original wave of the Islamic Invasion/Migratation came out of what is now Morroco. Actually the Islamic population of Spain came to include a great many ethnic groups, including many native Spaniards who converted,but the term Moor stuck.

Last edited by dudalb; 10th December 2012 at 04:44 PM.
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Old 10th December 2012, 04:45 PM   #24
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they are not "Moors," they are "Moops."
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Old 10th December 2012, 06:01 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Alferd_Packer View Post
they are not "Moors," they are "Moops."
Do you live in a bubble?
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Old 11th December 2012, 08:03 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
Hmmm, well I claim freeman status on the basis of Scottish Pict, Nac Mac Feegle edict of 417 A.D.
That's actually quite brilliant. Since your religious beliefs are that you're already dead, and it would be silly to have laws apply to dead people, you're home free!
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Old 12th December 2012, 07:03 AM   #27
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Fools. It is well known that only we of Belgian descent are subject to no laws.
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Old 11th January 2013, 03:02 PM   #28
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How dare you,we are moors not sovereigns !

Quote:
Couple considered sovereign citizens claim harassment.
Posted: Jan 09, 2013 4:58 AM Updated: Jan 09, 2013 6:10 PM
LITTLE ROCK (KATV) – A Little Rock couple claims they were mislabeled and mistreated during a 2012 traffic stop in which authorities reported them as being "sovereign citizens."

On April 7, 2012 Marco McCormick was pulled over on his way home for displaying only a custom made Moorish-American license plate on his vehicle. When asked to provide a driver's license, McCormick said he did not need to provide it because he was traveling, according to deputies and McCormick's own account.

He identified himself as a Moorish-American to the responding officer, who then called for backup on Arch Street that morning under the impression he claimed to be a sovereign citizen.

Edited by Locknar:  SNIPed, breach of rule 4.


The couple plans to use the video at their next court date, where they are appealing their threatening convictions.
Source: http://www.katv.com/story/20538763/c...ice-harassment

Last edited by Locknar; 12th January 2013 at 09:10 AM. Reason: Corrected rule reference.
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Old 11th January 2013, 04:21 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by mikeyman View Post
On April 7, 2012 Marco McCormick was pulled over on his way home for displaying only a custom made Moorish-American license plate on his vehicle.

[snip]

[His wife] claims to be a normal law-abiding resident...
These two statements are not mutually compatible.
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Old 11th January 2013, 08:22 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
Hmmm, well I claim freeman status on the basis of Scottish Pict, Nac Mac Feegle edict of 417 A.D.
Crivens!!!
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Old 11th January 2013, 11:02 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by mikeyman View Post
"We're not sovereign citizens," said Bey. "We're Moors. Moors are the natives to this land. That's been a hidden fact for a long time."


This is one of the most interesting things about this whole SovCit/FoTL/Moorish thing. They each have their own particular "origin myth" that explains why they are immune to statute law, but despite these apparent differences, they all end up at the same place, using the same sorts of arguments ("I'm not 'driving', I'm traveling!" and the like).

It's quite amusing seeing the SovCit movement (which was quite explicitly a White Power racist movement) being co-opted by the Moorish movement, which is fundamentally a Black Power movement. One has to wonder how many of the Moors actually know exactly how much of their crap was outright stolen from the SovCit's crap.
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Old 12th January 2013, 12:01 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
"YOU DARE TO BRING MOORS INTO THE ROYAL PRESENCE"?

The Alpha Hotel King Alfonso of Castile in "El Cid" when Charleton Heston brings Moorish allies against the fanatic Beni Youssuf in "El Cid".. Possibly the best epic film ever done.
Sofia Loren was divine, simply divine in that film.

But any mention of Moors gives me an opportunity to post up:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


It is, of course, the finale to the first act, not the third as labeled in the clip.
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Old 12th January 2013, 07:06 AM   #33
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Is there a Moor's Law that the idiocy doubles every 18 months?
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