Why so much attention to the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[John Mekki]

I was wondering, why so much attention to the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case?

Post your reply.

[RoseMontague]

Originally Posted by John Mekki

I was wondering, why so much attention to the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case?

Post your reply.

There is not a choice for all of the above and then some, or a Planet X option. If you get a chance see if you can track down my series, History of The Groundhog Day Massacre in Six Shots. If not, I am planning another series for Groundhog Day 2013.

[UNLoVedRebel]

People masturbate to Amanda Knox.

[RoseMontague]

The actual posts in the threads including humor, FC, and FMF total in the neighborhood of 100,000 with more than 2 million views. I don't know that the AK is Hot reason really covers that much attention. Perhaps it is because Raffaele is cute. These options are missing from the poll as well.

[Rolfe]

People enjoy puzzles, and a puzzle where the (original) officially-sanctioned answer was obviously wrong is a red rag to a bull.

Rolfe.

[joesixpack]

I don't actually have any more than a vague idea as to who these people are and the crime they were accused of. I can draw no meaningful distinction between myself and those who are very interested in the case other than that. I'm not certain why it would be interesting, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be, only that it doesn't interest me.

I answered the survey because it was in the sidebar on the forum homepage (I answered "other")

[Ryokan]

Originally Posted by UNLoVedRebel

People masturbate to Amanda Knox.

I was surprised to see this, or rather something similar, wasn't an option. It's because she's a rather good looking girl.

[CaptBang]

It's been said already and bears repeating: people want to bang Amanda Knox, hence, their fascination. Besides sex, what else motivate most people who are not on bath salts to do anything?

Admit it—you would, or one of the other main actors.

[Darth Rotor]

The standard answer used to be: because she's hot, is dear little Foxy Knoxy.

Sadly, you don't have that as a choice on the poll.

The case began in 2007, and for me was quite close to home as at the time my daughter was about to go to college and was considering programs that might lead to foreign study.

What happened to Meredith, and for that matter Amanda, is a parent's nightmare.

[Strawberry]

Cases where there is a controversy about guilt or innocence will always garner more attention than cases where most agree about the issue.

Come to think of it, any thread about any subject on which there is disagreement and firmly entrenched views on either side will rage on and on, while threads where there is broad agreement rarely go over two or three pages.

[Bill Williams]

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

The standard answer used to be: because she's hot, is dear little Foxy Knoxy.

Sadly, you don't have that as a choice on the poll.

The case began in 2007, and for me was quite close to home as at the time my daughter was about to go to college and was considering programs that might lead to foreign study.

What happened to Meredith, and for that matter Amanda, is a parent's nightmare.

I go with this one. The Kerchers rank a little above the Knox/Mellas's on this... but it has been an unimaginable nightmare for both, not to mention the principals at trial.

In seriousness, wrongful convictions are a huge problem.

[Skeptical Greg]

Blood, murder, sex, romance. mystery, overly ambitious if not corrupt judicial system.. All the elements of a juicy story with much controversy and everyone choosing sides...

If the forums had been around during the OJ trial, the threads would still be active today..

Oh, and did anyone mention that Amanda Knox is hot ?

[Kestrel]

Originally Posted by Rolfe

People enjoy puzzles, and a puzzle where the (original) officially-sanctioned answer was obviously wrong is a red rag to a bull.

Rolfe.

The Knox case also touches on many areas where public belief conflicts with actual science. False confessions, the reliability of DNA evidence, determining guilt from facial expressions or behavioral clues, reliability of eyewitness accounts. These make it a wonderful case for skeptical discussion.

[halides1]

I agree with Rolfe, Kestrel, and Darth Rotor. I am sometimes in a position of discussing students' plans to study abroad, and this case, along with the Dartmouth student in Spain, figure into those conversations. The Lindy Chamberlain case started out as a family who tragically lost an infant to a wild animal, yet from what I can gather, it became national news in Australia. The Duke lacrosse case started out as an ill-judged party, but the New York Times had over one hundred articles on it. Why some cases catch the public's imagination and not others is hard for me to say.

I chose option one because skeptics here and elsewhere found fault with the case where fault truly lay. I hope the next case like it runs to one thousand pages also, if that's what it takes to ferret out a false conviction.

[Rolfe]

Originally Posted by halides1

I hope the next case like it runs to one thousand pages also, if that's what it takes to ferret out a false conviction.

Well, the Lockerbie threads are currently pretty quiet, despite dynamite revelations and unfinished research into the SCCRC report (among other things). Principally due to a lack of critical mass of posters contributing.

Just sayin'....

Rolfe.

[RoseMontague]

Originally Posted by Rolfe

Well, the Lockerbie threads are currently pretty quiet, despite dynamite revelations and unfinished research into the SCCRC report (among other things). Principally due to a lack of critical mass of posters contributing.

Just sayin'....

Rolfe.

Reminds me of an old promise I made. Is there a resource of indexed documents and links available? Just send me a PM when you can.

[RoseMontague]

Originally Posted by halides1

I chose option one because skeptics here and elsewhere found fault with the case where fault truly lay. I hope the next case like it runs to one thousand pages also, if that's what it takes to ferret out a false conviction.

You convinced me, both on the case and now for my vote. Good on you.

[Antony]

Originally Posted by Rolfe

People enjoy puzzles, and a puzzle where the (original) officially-sanctioned answer was obviously wrong is a red rag to a bull.

Rolfe.

Added to that is indignation at an obviously wrong conviction; it is at least gratifying that there should be such a variety of people eager to add their voices to the blogosphere against an injustice.

What is more difficult to understand is that there should be a substantial group of people, with dedicated websites, clamouring to sustain the original guilty verdict, and that there should remain a core of them continuing to do so long after their case has completely collapsed.

[dudalb]

Originally Posted by Rolfe

People enjoy puzzles, and a puzzle where the (original) officially-sanctioned answer was obviously wrong is a red rag to a bull.

Rolfe.

People love to play Sherlock Holmes.

[Charlie Wilkes]

My assessment... it all began with The Narrative, as presented by Italian law enforcement and the tabloid media:

Meredith Kercher was a polite, serious British woman of impeccable character. "Foxy Knoxy" is a spoiled, selfish American with an unlimited sense of entitlement and no respect for others. "Foxy Knoxy" hated Meredith because Meredith was all the things "Foxy Knoxy" herself could never be. But the one thing "Foxy Knoxy" was really good at was using her sexuality to manipulate and control men. Therefore, she persuaded Raffaele Sollecito and Rudy Guede to collaborate with her on a brutal murder, partly out of spite, partly just for kicks. And she might have gotten away with it, if not for the keen insight of the Italian authorities, who represent the best of Europe's enlightened and humanistic governing institutions.

In 2007, The Narrative resonated with many Europeans. It also rang true for educated liberals in America. From both sides of the Atlantic, people came together on the Internet to form a social network built around The Narrative.

The Narrative does not, however, line up with facts. Amanda Knox is actually a friendly, kind-hearted person who never harbored the slightest ill will toward Meredith. To those who know her, the idea that she would commit murder is absurd. A careful examination of the evidence shows that the case against her and Raffaele was false and contrived. Meredith was killed by Rudy Guede, a disturbed young man who hung out on the periphery of the student scene in Perugia. Unfortunately, the authorities only figured this out after they had staked their pride and reputations to a public accusation against the wrong people.

Thus, for five years now, a fierce debate has raged, pitting those who cannot let go of The Narrative against those who understand what really happened.

A couple of factors have compounded the weight of the discussion on JREF.

First, the discussion brought in a wave of new people, including myself, who at first were suspected of being "woos," because we allege a complex conspiracy to hide the truth. Unlike the truthers or the anti-vaxers, however, we can point to countless cases where similar conspiracies have really unfolded and have been extensively documented - the Dreyfus Affair, Lindy Chamberlain, the Birmingham Six, Hernandez and Cruz, the West Memphis Three, the Norfolk Four, and hundreds of innocent people convicted of crimes that never happened during America's "satanic panic" in the 1980s.

Second, after Amanda and Raffaele were convicted in 2009, it became possible to share the extensive portfolio of forensic data compiled by the police and handed to the defense as part of the discovery process. All of this material was given to me along with permission to use it as I saw fit, and I saw fit to make any of it (except images of Meredith's body) available to anyone with a sincere interest in the case.

Among other things, this included hundreds of crime scene photos, several hours of crime scene video, a battery of DNA test results, and a map showing the location and identity of every fingerprint recovered from the cottage where the murder took place. It was a vast trove of primary source material in the hands of people who enjoy nothing more than to analyze it and discuss what it means.

[DallasDad]

The only thing I know about Amanda Knox is that her name has taken up way too much space in various venues, including JREF. My assumption is that she must be pretty, otherwise no one would really care. I have not bothered to try locating a photo in order to validate my guess.

[PhantomWolf]

Originally Posted by UNLoVedRebel

People masturbate to Amanda Knox.

Originally Posted by Ryokan

It's because she's a rather good looking girl.

Originally Posted by CaptBang

It's been said already and bears repeating: people want to bang Amanda Knox, hence, their fascination. Besides sex, what else motivate most people who are not on bath salts to do anything?

Admit it—you would, or one of the other main actors.

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

The standard answer used to be: because she's hot, is dear little Foxy Knoxy.

Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg

Oh, and did anyone mention that Amanda Knox is hot ?

All I can say is that certain peoiple obviously have very low standards.

[Bill Williams]

Originally Posted by Antony

Added to that is indignation at an obviously wrong conviction; it is at least gratifying that there should be such a variety of people eager to add their voices to the blogosphere against an injustice.

What is more difficult to understand is that there should be a substantial group of people, with dedicated websites, clamouring to sustain the original guilty verdict, and that there should remain a core of them continuing to do so long after their case has completely collapsed.

Correct me if I am wrong, but those websites grew as catalogues of the prosecution's case - often relayed from the courtroom on the very day some lurid factoid was addressed by the prosecution.

It led to a critical mass of outrage - which might have been appropriate outrage if there'd been a sliver of truth to what the prosecution was claiming.

I don't want to take this discussion off topic.... but this is one of the continuing fascinations for me. Discussing this case with folk from those websites is like being in a timewarp.... there is unquestioned loyalty to the prosecution case, without so much as a nod to the defence or to the decisions at not one, but two fact-finding trials.

If there were no such repositories of information that harkens back to 2008 - 2009, I'm not sure I'd follow this. The attention I pay to it is perhaps more suspect that most - I cannot explain how some people can be at this for so long and not know that there's been a defence case, a decision to convict, an appeal, a new DNA analysis, the collapse of the prosecution's case, and a thoroughly convincing acquittal.

The Hellmann motivation's report is a complete trashing of the court which convicted.... but even the court which convicted trashed major elements of the prosecution's case (motive, mixed blood, psychopathology (or lack of same) of the two students).

Yet there are some stragglers who insist on going on as if psychopathology belongs to this, as if mixed blood is a given, as if there is any motive whatsoever for the two students to have been involved.

It's amazing.

[John Mekki]

I am seeing that the option "As it is a very important topic of discussion, which deserves 1000+ pages of talk " is not getting much replies..

[UNLoVedRebel]

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

What happened to Meredith, and for that matter Amanda, is a parent's nightmare.

How about the world finding out that your daughter's a whore? That's gotta be a parent's nightmare.

[UNLoVedRebel]

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf

All I can say is that certain peoiple obviously have very low standards.

Oh whatever. She's a cute girl albeit trashly once you acquire the information. The still pics show she was clearly attractive at the time of the murders.

[anglolawyer]

Murder, sex and justice/injustice are all compelling. I confess to a voyeuristic interest. I vote for the first three buttons in the poll.

[halides1]

Originally Posted by UNLoVedRebel

How about the world finding out that your daughter's a whore? That's gotta be a parent's nightmare.

If you think that the clear majority of young people in college are celibate the whole time they are students, I suggest you think twice (I teach at a university). The Italian authorities with the conscious or unwitting help of the media portrayed Ms. Knox as a woman of loose morals, but they had to resort to falsehoods and subterfuge in order to do it. In reality all four flatmates were sexually active, drank lightly, smoke marijuana--in other words acted like normal 20 something young women. One of the great fascinations for me in this case was learning that misogyny is alive, well, and still quite damaging in the twenty-first century.

[Charlie Wilkes]

Originally Posted by UNLoVedRebel

Oh whatever. She's a cute girl albeit trashly once you acquire the information. The still pics show she was clearly attractive at the time of the murders.

I have gotten to know her, and I have become friends with her mother and stepfather. She is a delightful person, she is respected and dearly loved by her family and friends, and there is nothing trashy about her.

[PhantomWolf]

Originally Posted by UNLoVedRebel

Oh whatever. She's a cute girl albeit trashly once you acquire the information. The still pics show she was clearly attractive at the time of the murders.

While I would say she's not unattractive, and perhaps cute in the girl next door, sort of cute, she wouldn't make it onto the list of the world's million hottest women, so I really can't see why some people are supposedly so gaga over her looks. Presonally I think she's fairly plain in the looks department.

Though to be honest it usually seems to be used a bunt force ad hominen used again anyone that supported her innocence, in the idea that people only supported her in the hopes of getting laid by the supposed bombshell.

In reality she isn't that pretty. She has lightbrown/blondish hair, and breasts, and isn't overly ugly. So, as I said, some people obviously have very low standards.

[halides1]

Originally Posted by DallasDad

The only thing I know about Amanda Knox is that her name has taken up way too much space in various venues, including JREF. My assumption is that she must be pretty, otherwise no one would really care. I have not bothered to try locating a photo in order to validate my guess.

We are all agreed that Amanda is attractive. In the universe of possibilities, this might explain why straight men and gay women would take an interest, but it falls on its face as an explanation for why gay men or straight women would. Other potentially wrongful accusations/convictions have become major stories without the issue of the attractiveness of the defendant's being raised as an issue. The West Memphis Three and the Duke lacrosse three come to mind in the U.S., but there are better examples from Great Britain, such as Barry George. I wrote much the same thing as my comments above almost two years ago in a thread in forum community, and I had hoped never to have to revisit the topic. I hoped in vain.

However, there are empirical reasons to reject Amanda's attractiveness as the prime mover here at JREFF, reasons that have become apparent since that long-ago FC thread. Bruce Fisher's site, Injustice in Perugia, changed its name to Injustice Anywhere. I suggest forum members pay it a visit. I have started threads on the Hank Skinner case, and Skinner is a balding, middle-aged, slightly pudgy man. RoseMontague has participated in the discussion of the Sabrina Misseri case; Sabrina, it must be ruefully admitted, is a woman; however, she is not especially attractive, if I may say so without intending to be ungentlemanly.

[Strawberry]

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf

While I would say she's not unattractive, and perhaps cute in the girl next door, sort of cute, she wouldn't make it onto the list of the world's million hottest women, so I really can't see why some people are supposedly so gaga over her looks. Presonally I think she's fairly plain in the looks department.

Though to be honest it usually seems to be used a bunt force ad hominen used again anyone that supported her innocence, in the idea that people only supported her in the hopes of getting laid by the supposed bombshell.

In reality she isn't that pretty. She has lightbrown/blondish hair, and breasts, and isn't overly ugly. So, as I said, some people obviously have very low standards.

The same thing happens in the WM3 case. If you're a supporter, the nons accuse you of worshipping Damien Echols/being a Damien groupie, etc. Its self defeating in the end, because people like that fall for their own mythology and end up weakening their own arguments. For example, so convinced that supporters would be terribly wounded by any derogatory comment against Echols, the nons wasted about 90% of their energy insulting him and planning parties for his execution night, instead of dealing with case facts.

[UNLoVedRebel]

Originally Posted by Charlie Wilkes

I have gotten to know her, and I have become friends with her mother and stepfather. She is a delightful person, she is respected and dearly loved by her family and friends, and there is nothing trashy about her.

I don't think you'd be saying that circa 2007.

[UNLoVedRebel]

Originally Posted by halides1

If you think that the clear majority of young people in college are celibate the whole time they are students, I suggest you think twice (I teach at a university). The the Italian authorities with the conscious or unwitting help of the media portrayed Ms. Knox as a woman of loose morals, but they had to resort to falsehoods and subterfuge in order to do it.

I am well aware of that. Even in the information age, most young women try to keep their ONS's on the DL.

[halides1]

Originally Posted by UNLoVedRebel

I don't think you'd be saying that circa 2007.

Why do you believe so?

[halides1]

Originally Posted by UNLoVedRebel

I am well aware of that. Even in the information age, most young women try to keep their ONS's on the DL.

Are you aware of the circumstances under which Amanda's list of lifetime intimate partners was written and became public?

[PhantomWolf]

Originally Posted by UNLoVedRebel

I don't think you'd be saying that circa 2007.

From what I know of her life in 2007, she wasn't really that much different to most Uni Students of the time.

[UNLoVedRebel]

Originally Posted by halides1

Are you aware of the circumstances under which Amanda's list of lifetime intimate partners was written and became public?

Yes

[UNLoVedRebel]

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf

From what I know of her life in 2007, she wasn't really that much different to most Uni Students of the time.

She seemed to have engaged in a lot of uncommitted sex with different number of partners in a short period of time. I'm not saying this is unusual or "different" but when a woman engages in this type of behavior and it becomes known, often she gets branded--especially by other women--as a "whore."

I'm not saying this is how I perceive her, I'm saying this is how the public likely does due to the information that's been released.

Also, pinning the blame for a murder on someone you know is innocent would be described as "different."

[UNLoVedRebel]

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf

While I would say she's not unattractive, and perhaps cute in the girl next door, sort of cute, she wouldn't make it onto the list of the world's million hottest women, so I really can't see why some people are supposedly so gaga over her looks. Presonally I think she's fairly plain in the looks department.

Though to be honest it usually seems to be used a bunt force ad hominen used again anyone that supported her innocence, in the idea that people only supported her in the hopes of getting laid by the supposed bombshell.

In reality she isn't that pretty. She has lightbrown/blondish hair, and breasts, and isn't overly ugly. So, as I said, some people obviously have very low standards.

I don't think she's been compared to celebrities or ever been deemed a "bombshell."

At the time of the murders, she did have the "girl next door" looks which often elicits sexual fantasies in men. (young & fertile, easy access, attainable/not much competition)