School shooting: but don't mention guns! - Page 3

The Central Scrutinizer · 14th December 2012, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by GeeMack

Looks like they've found one of the shooter's parents, apparently murdered in their home in New Jersey this morning.

I wonder who did it?

GeeMack · 14th December 2012, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Biscuit

This is the dumbest thing any gun owner ever said. Of course guns kill people. That there are many ways of killing people does not negate the fact that guns are created for one purpose and one purpose only: TO KILL.

You should take that nonsense over to one of the gun control threads where it can be properly addressed. It's simply not true, a dishonest attempt to poison the well. This isn't the proper thread to be spreading your manure.

Agatha · 14th December 2012, 11:17 AM

The school's local paper has an editorial which ends

Originally Posted by Hartford Courant

Americans may argue about whether their country is dominated by a pro-gun culture. But this much is certain, attested to by the Newtown school shooting: It is far too easy in America for a sick mind to find a gun and use it.

Whatever a person's stand on guns and gun control, I think (and hope) that few would argue with the last sentence.

Currently it's reported that 27 are dead, 18 of them children. An entire class unaccounted for. It's so terribly sad.

MikeG · 14th December 2012, 11:18 AM

The BBC and Channel 4 here are saying there was just one gunman. Are you hearing something different over there? They are also saying 26 dead.

Mike

bonzombiekitty · 14th December 2012, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by IDB87

There is a reason why guns are used over any other instrument. The sooner we drop this "Well they could have used ANYTHING" argument, the sooner we can have an actual discussion.

As I've said elsewhere; Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Guns just make it a hell of a lot easier.

Verklagekasper · 14th December 2012, 11:20 AM

Horrible, horrible. My sympathy for the families.

bonzombiekitty · 14th December 2012, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by MikeG

The BBC and Channel 4 here are saying there was just one gunman. Are you hearing something different over there? They are also saying 26 dead.

Mike

The police took someone into custody. At first the news was reporting that person as a second shooter, but then changed it to saying the police detained someone and was investigating whether he was involved in the shooting or just happened to be walking into the school at the time.

The news feed I am listening to hasn't said anything else about this person, so I assume it was just someone who happened to be there.

LSSBB · 14th December 2012, 11:22 AM

Good list to peruse for some perspective.

My heart goes out to the victims and their families.

AdMan · 14th December 2012, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by GeeMack

Looks like they've found one of the shooter's parents, apparently murdered in their home in New Jersey this morning.

What's the source?

Redtail · 14th December 2012, 11:25 AM

Reports of 30 dead now.

ETA: & they think they've found his Facebook page.

The Central Scrutinizer · 14th December 2012, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by Redtail

Reports of 30 dead now.

ETA: & they think they've found his Facebook page.

I did too. Ryan Lanza. I guess it's too late to send a friend request.

He's like the 3rd one down if you search that name. Says his hometown is Newtown CT.

Stacko · 14th December 2012, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by LSSBB

Good list to peruse for some perspective.

My heart goes out to the victims and their families.

The CBC has compiled a similar list.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...shootings.html

fuelair · 14th December 2012, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by Mister Earl

I still can't believe it. What the heck...

Someone take the game out of the universal console and scrub the back of the disc with a brillo pad.

NOBODY WANTS TO PLAY EVER AGAIN.

Just wish that was correct*. There are crazies with us.

*For most of us it is - and if only we could i d the crazies early

Agatha · 14th December 2012, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by AdMan

What's the source?

The BBC says this is based on a CBS report.

Quad4_72 · 14th December 2012, 11:31 AM

I just don't know the answer to this type of tragedy. Do you ban guns completely, and punish the 50 million or so responsible gun owners out there because of the horrific actions of a few people? Do you make guns much harder to obtain because .01% of the gun population does the wrong thing? I don't think any of those things is the right answer, but I am not sure what is.

JoeTheJuggler · 14th December 2012, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler

Quote:

They haven't given any details about the shooter other than that he or she is dead;

I haven't heard, but I'd be willing to bet money the shooter had a Y chromosome.

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

Ryan Lanza.

Not a big surprise on the sex of the shooter anyway.

Redtail · 14th December 2012, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

I did too. Ryan Lanza. I guess it's too late to send a friend request.

He's like the 3rd one down if you search that name. Says his hometown is Newtown CT.

Most likely it's him, but since I share my name with a guy my age, from my home town, I can't help but feel bad for him on the off chance it's a coincidence.

GeeMack · 14th December 2012, 11:35 AM

Now it's being reported that the shooter's mother was an employee at the school.

ETA: Apparently the shooter's mother was shot at the school.

fuelair · 14th December 2012, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

I did too. Ryan Lanza. I guess it's too late to send a friend request.

He's like the 3rd one down if you search that name. Says his hometown is Newtown CT.

On the other hand, a nice "Burn in Hell forever you dog*******mother raping piece of fecal matter" would be quite appropriate.

Biscuit · 14th December 2012, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by GeeMack

You should take that nonsense over to one of the gun control threads where it can be properly addressed. It's simply not true, a dishonest attempt to poison the well. This isn't the proper thread to be spreading your manure.

We can't talk here? What other purpose are guns designed for?

Remember I am not some pacifist hippie but an armed citizen that enjoys his guns. I don't have any problem with people owning guns, I have a problem with gun owners that try and deny the purpose, power, and capability of their fire arms.

ETA: You want to talk about poisoning the well you can thank the gun lobby for that.

AdMan · 14th December 2012, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Agatha

The BBC says this is based on a CBS report.

Thanks.

bonzombiekitty · 14th December 2012, 11:37 AM

oh geez. He killed his mom in her classroom. Her kindergarten classroom. That implies most of the kids that got killed were kindergarteners.

The Central Scrutinizer · 14th December 2012, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by Quad4_72

I just don't know the answer to this type of tragedy. Do you ban guns completely, and punish the 50 million or so responsible gun owners out there because of the horrific actions of a few people? Do you make guns much harder to obtain because .01% of the gun population does the wrong thing? I don't think any of those things is the right answer, but I am not sure what is.

Same here.

Biscuit · 14th December 2012, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by Quad4_72

I just don't know the answer to this type of tragedy. Do you ban guns completely, and punish the 50 million or so responsible gun owners out there because of the horrific actions of a few people? Do you make guns much harder to obtain because .01% of the gun population does the wrong thing? I don't think any of those things is the right answer, but I am not sure what is.

You start by having an actual honest discussion about what it means to live a an armed society. Talk about the realities and responsibilities that the 2nd amendment creates.

The Central Scrutinizer · 14th December 2012, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty

oh geez. He killed his mom in her classroom. Her kindergarten classroom. That implies most of the kids that got killed were kindergarteners.

I thought the mom was found dead at home?

timhau · 14th December 2012, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty

oh geez. He killed his mom in her classroom. Her kindergarten classroom. That implies most of the kids that got killed were kindergarteners.

Holy

. Too bad the bastard is unavailable for the good old "hanged, drawn, and quartered" routine.

deadrose · 14th December 2012, 11:41 AM

No, the father was found dead at the home.

bonzombiekitty · 14th December 2012, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

I thought the mom was found dead at home?

That was his dad.

JoeTheJuggler · 14th December 2012, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Quad4_72

I just don't know the answer to this type of tragedy. Do you ban guns completely, and punish the 50 million or so responsible gun owners out there because of the horrific actions of a few people? Do you make guns much harder to obtain because .01% of the gun population does the wrong thing? I don't think any of those things is the right answer, but I am not sure what is.

I don't think anyone believes we should ban all guns. As for banning some types of guns or making guns significantly harder to get because .01% of the gun population (how is the "gun population" defined, and where did you come up with that statistic?) does the wrong thing, I think yes, we do.

It's the same reason we ban individual ownership of other very dangerous arms (chemical, biological and nuclear weapons): because public safety interests outweigh the individual right.

I think equating the gun debate with incidents like this is wrong though. If you're saying we shouldn't pass laws only with an eye to making incidents like this one impossible, I agree. That would be like making driving laws and enforcement such that no fatal motor vehicle accidents happen.

Actually it would be worse than that because it would ignore that the single biggest category of gun deaths are suicides. (Annually, just over 50% of gun-deaths in the U.S. are suicides. A fairly small percentage of them are accidents, and the remaining 40-something percent are homicides--or rather non-suicide homicides.)

Incidents like this are pretty far outside the norm of the high gun-death problem our country faces.

deadrose · 14th December 2012, 11:43 AM

Apparently police are now checking other locations for possible additional victims.

JoeTheJuggler · 14th December 2012, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by timhau

Holy

. Too bad the bastard is unavailable for the good old "hanged, drawn, and quartered" routine.

Why?

This kind of violence isn't likely to decrease due to deterrence. And I think there's credible evidence that the more state-sanctioned violence there is, the more violent crime you get.

Lust for revenge will have to go unrequited, as it should.

SumDood · 14th December 2012, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

I thought the mom was found dead at home?

Yeah, can we start posting links to breaking info?

Caper · 14th December 2012, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by Travis

Well that was actually what I was hoping to ironically highlight at the time. Now I think that is overshadowed by events. See below.

When I started this thread they were reporting that only the shooter was dead, likely at the hands of police. My biggest indignation at the time was really the statement that elementary schools don't have bullying.

I go, rake leaves out of the gutter then come back to watch what is up and see maybe twenty kids are dead. And this is a K-4 school.

Now I'm ashamed at starting this all off the way I did.

Granted we will have to deal with the social situation questions one day. We need to be able to have an adult sit down and talk about where we really want our society to lead. Do we really want to keep tolerating these tragedies in order to protect what might be an outmoded concept of individual rights? Can we consider massacres like this a tragedy of the commons only properly addressed by giving up some of those rights?

One day we will have to really and earnestly tackle those questions. We can't avoid them forever. For the moment we have innocent lives to mourn and children to bury.

Your first post wasn't good. This post was VERY good.

deadrose · 14th December 2012, 11:48 AM

I'm getting my info from the live reuters feed here: http://live.reuters.com/Event/Newtown_School_Shooting

GeeMack · 14th December 2012, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by Biscuit

We can't talk here? What other purpose are guns designed for?

Really? You'd ask that and claim to be a gun owner? Pardon me while I compose myself...

Now how about you take it to a gun control thread.

Ian · 14th December 2012, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by Quad4_72

Unfathomable. Are people born with that kind of evil, or is it something they learned through their upbringing? I have an elementary school aged child, and I can't even imagine...

No one is born with that. A person must undergo a process to become a violent criminal, and each individual who does so has chosen to be a violent criminal. Lonnie Athens is a good resource on this topic.

The Central Scrutinizer · 14th December 2012, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty

oh geez. He killed his mom in her classroom. Her kindergarten classroom. That implies most of the kids that got killed were kindergarteners.

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

I thought the mom was found dead at home?

Originally Posted by deadrose

No, the father was found dead at the home.

Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty

That was his dad.

OK, I think I'm starting to figure this thing out. The mom killed the dad, then the son went to seek revenge?

thaiboxerken · 14th December 2012, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Cain

Guns don't kill people; people kill people.

Guns just make it so much easier.

Cain · 14th December 2012, 11:56 AM

It puzzles me why anyone would read story after story on this or watch continuous updates on the news. A bunch of kids were slaughtered. Some deranged ******* did it. Why invite that kind of darkness into your heart?

The Central Scrutinizer

Quote:

I guess it's too late to send a friend request.

14th December 2012, 11:16 AM	#81
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Pither Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,270	Originally Posted by GeeMack Looks like they've found one of the shooter's parents, apparently murdered in their home in New Jersey this morning. I wonder who did it?
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

14th December 2012, 11:17 AM	#83
Agatha Winking at the Moon Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: UK Posts: 4,216	The school's local paper has an editorial which ends Originally Posted by Hartford Courant Americans may argue about whether their country is dominated by a pro-gun culture. But this much is certain, attested to by the Newtown school shooting: It is far too easy in America for a sick mind to find a gun and use it. Whatever a person's stand on guns and gun control, I think (and hope) that few would argue with the last sentence. Currently it's reported that 27 are dead, 18 of them children. An entire class unaccounted for. It's so terribly sad.
	__________________ People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... timey wimey... stuff.

14th December 2012, 11:22 AM	#88
LSSBB Devilish Dictionarian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: An elusive house at Bachelor's Grove Cemetery Posts: 4,492	Good list to peruse for some perspective. My heart goes out to the victims and their families.
	__________________ "Things that never happened before happen all the time." (Scott Sagan, 1993) "Put down the Wite-Out and step away from the dictionary." (000063, 2012) "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof." (John Kenneth Galbraith, 1971)

14th December 2012, 11:23 AM	#89
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,173	Originally Posted by GeeMack Looks like they've found one of the shooter's parents, apparently murdered in their home in New Jersey this morning. What's the source?
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,173	__________________ It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

14th December 2012, 11:25 AM	#90
Redtail Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 9,304	Reports of 30 dead now. ETA: & they think they've found his Facebook page.
Redtail Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 9,304	__________________ AVENGERS!!!.. Turn off the dark!

14th December 2012, 11:17 AM	#82
GeeMack Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Not Bandiagara Posts: 7,175	Originally Posted by Biscuit This is the dumbest thing any gun owner ever said. Of course guns kill people. That there are many ways of killing people does not negate the fact that guns are created for one purpose and one purpose only: TO KILL. You should take that nonsense over to one of the gun control threads where it can be properly addressed. It's simply not true, a dishonest attempt to poison the well. This isn't the proper thread to be spreading your manure.

14th December 2012, 11:18 AM	#84
MikeG Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: UK Posts: 1,546	The BBC and Channel 4 here are saying there was just one gunman. Are you hearing something different over there? They are also saying 26 dead. Mike

14th December 2012, 11:18 AM	#85
bonzombiekitty Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 419	Originally Posted by IDB87 There is a reason why guns are used over any other instrument. The sooner we drop this "Well they could have used ANYTHING" argument, the sooner we can have an actual discussion. As I've said elsewhere; Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Guns just make it a hell of a lot easier.

14th December 2012, 11:20 AM	#86
Verklagekasper Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 365	Horrible, horrible. My sympathy for the families.

14th December 2012, 11:21 AM	#87
bonzombiekitty Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 419	Originally Posted by MikeG The BBC and Channel 4 here are saying there was just one gunman. Are you hearing something different over there? They are also saying 26 dead. Mike The police took someone into custody. At first the news was reporting that person as a second shooter, but then changed it to saying the police detained someone and was investigating whether he was involved in the shooting or just happened to be walking into the school at the time. The news feed I am listening to hasn't said anything else about this person, so I assume it was just someone who happened to be there.

14th December 2012, 11:27 AM	#91
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Pither Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,270	Originally Posted by Redtail Reports of 30 dead now. ETA: & they think they've found his Facebook page. I did too. Ryan Lanza. I guess it's too late to send a friend request. He's like the 3rd one down if you search that name. Says his hometown is Newtown CT.
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

14th December 2012, 11:28 AM	#92
Stacko Muse Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 794	Originally Posted by LSSBB Good list to peruse for some perspective. My heart goes out to the victims and their families. The CBC has compiled a similar list. http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...shootings.html
Stacko Muse Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 794

14th December 2012, 11:29 AM	#93
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,928	Originally Posted by Mister Earl I still can't believe it. What the heck... Someone take the game out of the universal console and scrub the back of the disc with a brillo pad. NOBODY WANTS TO PLAY EVER AGAIN. Just wish that was correct. There are crazies with us. For most of us it is - and if only we could i d the crazies early
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,928	__________________ There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed. Wash this space! We fight for the Lady Babylon!!!

14th December 2012, 11:29 AM	#94
Agatha Winking at the Moon Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: UK Posts: 4,216	Originally Posted by AdMan What's the source? The BBC says this is based on a CBS report.
	__________________ People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... timey wimey... stuff.

14th December 2012, 11:31 AM	#95
Quad4_72 AI-EE-YAH! Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: USA Posts: 5,830	I just don't know the answer to this type of tragedy. Do you ban guns completely, and punish the 50 million or so responsible gun owners out there because of the horrific actions of a few people? Do you make guns much harder to obtain because .01% of the gun population does the wrong thing? I don't think any of those things is the right answer, but I am not sure what is.
	__________________ Looks like the one on top has a magazine, thus needs less reloading. Also, the muzzle shroud makes it less likely for a spree killer to burn his hands. The pistol grip makes it more comfortable for the spree killer to shoot. thaiboxerken

14th December 2012, 11:34 AM	#96
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 26,748	Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler Quote: They haven't given any details about the shooter other than that he or she is dead; I haven't heard, but I'd be willing to bet money the shooter had a Y chromosome. Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer Ryan Lanza. Not a big surprise on the sex of the shooter anyway.
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons

14th December 2012, 11:35 AM	#98
GeeMack Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Not Bandiagara Posts: 7,175	Now it's being reported that the shooter's mother was an employee at the school. ETA: Apparently the shooter's mother was shot at the school.
	Last edited by GeeMack; 14th December 2012 at 11:38 AM.

14th December 2012, 11:35 AM	#100
Biscuit Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,767	Originally Posted by GeeMack You should take that nonsense over to one of the gun control threads where it can be properly addressed. It's simply not true, a dishonest attempt to poison the well. This isn't the proper thread to be spreading your manure. We can't talk here? What other purpose are guns designed for? Remember I am not some pacifist hippie but an armed citizen that enjoys his guns. I don't have any problem with people owning guns, I have a problem with gun owners that try and deny the purpose, power, and capability of their fire arms. ETA: You want to talk about poisoning the well you can thank the gun lobby for that.
Biscuit Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,767	__________________ “... there is no shame in not knowing. The problem arises when irrational thought and attendant behavior fill the vacuum left by ignorance.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson Last edited by Biscuit; 14th December 2012 at 11:39 AM.

14th December 2012, 11:36 AM	#101
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,173	Originally Posted by Agatha The BBC says this is based on a CBS report. Thanks.
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,173	__________________ It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

14th December 2012, 11:37 AM	#102
bonzombiekitty Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 419	oh geez. He killed his mom in her classroom. Her kindergarten classroom. That implies most of the kids that got killed were kindergarteners.

14th December 2012, 11:38 AM	#103
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Pither Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,270	Originally Posted by Quad4_72 I just don't know the answer to this type of tragedy. Do you ban guns completely, and punish the 50 million or so responsible gun owners out there because of the horrific actions of a few people? Do you make guns much harder to obtain because .01% of the gun population does the wrong thing? I don't think any of those things is the right answer, but I am not sure what is. Same here.
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

14th December 2012, 11:38 AM	#104
Biscuit Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,767	Originally Posted by Quad4_72 I just don't know the answer to this type of tragedy. Do you ban guns completely, and punish the 50 million or so responsible gun owners out there because of the horrific actions of a few people? Do you make guns much harder to obtain because .01% of the gun population does the wrong thing? I don't think any of those things is the right answer, but I am not sure what is. You start by having an actual honest discussion about what it means to live a an armed society. Talk about the realities and responsibilities that the 2nd amendment creates.
Biscuit Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,767	__________________ “... there is no shame in not knowing. The problem arises when irrational thought and attendant behavior fill the vacuum left by ignorance.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

14th December 2012, 11:39 AM	#105
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Pither Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,270	Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty oh geez. He killed his mom in her classroom. Her kindergarten classroom. That implies most of the kids that got killed were kindergarteners. I thought the mom was found dead at home?
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

14th December 2012, 11:40 AM	#106
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: East of Sweeden Posts: 9,659	Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty oh geez. He killed his mom in her classroom. Her kindergarten classroom. That implies most of the kids that got killed were kindergarteners. Holy . Too bad the bastard is unavailable for the good old "hanged, drawn, and quartered" routine.
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

14th December 2012, 11:41 AM	#107
deadrose Muse Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: the wet side of the mountains Posts: 816	No, the father was found dead at the home.

14th December 2012, 11:41 AM	#108
bonzombiekitty Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 419	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer I thought the mom was found dead at home? That was his dad.

14th December 2012, 11:41 AM	#109
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 26,748	Originally Posted by Quad4_72 I just don't know the answer to this type of tragedy. Do you ban guns completely, and punish the 50 million or so responsible gun owners out there because of the horrific actions of a few people? Do you make guns much harder to obtain because .01% of the gun population does the wrong thing? I don't think any of those things is the right answer, but I am not sure what is. I don't think anyone believes we should ban all guns. As for banning some types of guns or making guns significantly harder to get because .01% of the gun population (how is the "gun population" defined, and where did you come up with that statistic?) does the wrong thing, I think yes, we do. It's the same reason we ban individual ownership of other very dangerous arms (chemical, biological and nuclear weapons): because public safety interests outweigh the individual right. I think equating the gun debate with incidents like this is wrong though. If you're saying we shouldn't pass laws only with an eye to making incidents like this one impossible, I agree. That would be like making driving laws and enforcement such that no fatal motor vehicle accidents happen. Actually it would be worse than that because it would ignore that the single biggest category of gun deaths are suicides. (Annually, just over 50% of gun-deaths in the U.S. are suicides. A fairly small percentage of them are accidents, and the remaining 40-something percent are homicides--or rather non-suicide homicides.) Incidents like this are pretty far outside the norm of the high gun-death problem our country faces.
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons

14th December 2012, 11:43 AM	#110
deadrose Muse Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: the wet side of the mountains Posts: 816	Apparently police are now checking other locations for possible additional victims.

14th December 2012, 11:45 AM	#111
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 26,748	Originally Posted by timhau Holy . Too bad the bastard is unavailable for the good old "hanged, drawn, and quartered" routine. Why? This kind of violence isn't likely to decrease due to deterrence. And I think there's credible evidence that the more state-sanctioned violence there is, the more violent crime you get. Lust for revenge will have to go unrequited, as it should.
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons

14th December 2012, 11:46 AM	#112
SumDood Muse Join Date: May 2008 Location: Alabama Posts: 706	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer I thought the mom was found dead at home? Yeah, can we start posting links to breaking info?
	__________________ All that is necessary for ignorance to triumph is for intelligent men to do nothing.

14th December 2012, 11:46 AM	#113
Caper Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,946	Originally Posted by Travis Well that was actually what I was hoping to ironically highlight at the time. Now I think that is overshadowed by events. See below. When I started this thread they were reporting that only the shooter was dead, likely at the hands of police. My biggest indignation at the time was really the statement that elementary schools don't have bullying. I go, rake leaves out of the gutter then come back to watch what is up and see maybe twenty kids are dead. And this is a K-4 school. Now I'm ashamed at starting this all off the way I did. Granted we will have to deal with the social situation questions one day. We need to be able to have an adult sit down and talk about where we really want our society to lead. Do we really want to keep tolerating these tragedies in order to protect what might be an outmoded concept of individual rights? Can we consider massacres like this a tragedy of the commons only properly addressed by giving up some of those rights? One day we will have to really and earnestly tackle those questions. We can't avoid them forever. For the moment we have innocent lives to mourn and children to bury. Your first post wasn't good. This post was VERY good.
Caper Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,946

14th December 2012, 11:48 AM	#114
deadrose Muse Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: the wet side of the mountains Posts: 816	I'm getting my info from the live reuters feed here: http://live.reuters.com/Event/Newtown_School_Shooting

14th December 2012, 11:51 AM	#115
GeeMack Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Not Bandiagara Posts: 7,175	Originally Posted by Biscuit We can't talk here? What other purpose are guns designed for? Really? You'd ask that and claim to be a gun owner? Pardon me while I compose myself... Now how about you take it to a gun control thread.

14th December 2012, 11:52 AM	#116
Ian Thinker Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 243	Originally Posted by Quad4_72 Unfathomable. Are people born with that kind of evil, or is it something they learned through their upbringing? I have an elementary school aged child, and I can't even imagine... No one is born with that. A person must undergo a process to become a violent criminal, and each individual who does so has chosen to be a violent criminal. Lonnie Athens is a good resource on this topic.
Ian Thinker Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 243

14th December 2012, 11:53 AM	#117
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Pither Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,270	Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty oh geez. He killed his mom in her classroom. Her kindergarten classroom. That implies most of the kids that got killed were kindergarteners. Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer I thought the mom was found dead at home? Originally Posted by deadrose No, the father was found dead at the home. Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty That was his dad. OK, I think I'm starting to figure this thing out. The mom killed the dad, then the son went to seek revenge?
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.