School shooting: but don't mention guns! - Page 4

thaiboxerken · 14th December 2012, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Rolfe

You know, I'd have thought that by now people on this forum were accustomed enough to your style of black irony to understand this post, but apparently not.

Rolfe.

The problem is, the gun nuts here use the exact same arguments with sincerity.

timhau · 14th December 2012, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler

Why?

Two words: Reality TV.

thaiboxerken · 14th December 2012, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by Sabretooth

I am pro-gun as well. However, actions such as this...where a man walks into a KIDS school and starts firing away...it isn't about the guns.

This guy wanted to go out in a demon-blaze and you'd be hard pressed to make me believe he wouldn't have found another weapon(s) to make sure it happened.

I have a hard time believing this guy would've killed people if he didn't have access to guns.

Delscottio · 14th December 2012, 11:59 AM

BBC reporting Lanza's younger brother is being held in custody.

UNLoVedRebel · 14th December 2012, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

I did too. Ryan Lanza. I guess it's too late to send a friend request.

He's like the 3rd one down if you search that name. Says his hometown is Newtown CT.

Not any more. Many dopplegangers or whatever you call them already sprung up. The one reply post that's accessible:

Jonathan Russell "Look like you're about to buy an Ale, but then paint a picture of it... very mixed... all good, though. Kinda like if Solid Snake was wearing a Neo trenchcoat. This can only turn out awesome."

His pic has now been shared 14,133 times.

Rolfe · 14th December 2012, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

The problem is, the gun nuts here use the exact same arguments with sincerity.

Yes. That's why he does it. It's always perfectly clear if you read for comprehension. (And I speak as one who was utterly suckered by a very similar post of his in one of the Lockerbie threads and then had to come back and apologise for my rant.)

Rolfe.

thaiboxerken · 14th December 2012, 12:03 PM

Some crazy guy went on a shooting spree local to my area at a mall 2 days ago. Only 3 people were shot, 2 died. But guns aren't the problem, guns are innocent, like bunnies.

Rolfe · 14th December 2012, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Quad4_72

I just don't know the answer to this type of tragedy. Do you ban guns completely, and punish the 50 million or so responsible gun owners out there because of the horrific actions of a few people? Do you make guns much harder to obtain because .01% of the gun population does the wrong thing? I don't think any of those things is the right answer, but I am not sure what is.

Well, that's what we did after Dunblane. Even though guns were already much more difficult to obtain here at that time than they are in the USA.

It's hard to know for sure how much effect that has had, given the rarity of this sort of occurrence, but it's been over 16 years and it hasn't happened again - not in a school, to children.

Rolfe.

JoeTheJuggler · 14th December 2012, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Cain

It puzzles me why anyone would read story after story on this or watch continuous updates on the news. A bunch of kids were slaughtered. Some deranged ******* did it. Why invite that kind of darkness into your heart?

I follow national news headlines pretty constantly.

I don't think staying informed about our country is the same thing as inviting darkness into my heart.

Is it noble to avoid bad news?

thaiboxerken · 14th December 2012, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Rolfe

Well, that's what we did after Dunblane. Even though guns were already much more difficult to obtain here at that time than they are in the USA.

It's hard to know for sure how much effect that has had, given the rarity of this sort of occurrence, but it's been over 16 years and it hasn't happened again - not in a school, to children.

Rolfe.

You don't have guys going on stabbing sprees in crowded areas?

fuelair · 14th December 2012, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

I thought the mom was found dead at home?

They just said "a parent". We may assume from the other information that one was his father.

Mister Earl · 14th December 2012, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

I did too. Ryan Lanza. I guess it's too late to send a friend request.

He's like the 3rd one down if you search that name. Says his hometown is Newtown CT.

I tried to click the "retroactively smite" button and discovered there still isn't one, despite my repeated troubletickets to the facebook tech support team.

Rat · 14th December 2012, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by Rolfe

Well, that's what we did after Dunblane. Even though guns were already much more difficult to obtain here at that time than they are in the USA.

It's hard to know for sure how much effect that has had, given the rarity of this sort of occurrence, but it's been over 16 years and it hasn't happened again - not in a school, to children.

Rolfe.

Dunblane itself was ten years or so after Michael Ryan. It was after Ryan that most automatics were banned.

LTC8K6 · 14th December 2012, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

I have a hard time believing this guy would've killed people if he didn't have access to guns.

They will always find a way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

LTC8K6 · 14th December 2012, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

You don't have guys going on stabbing sprees in crowded areas?

The one that just happened in an elementary school in China is quite the coincidence...not really, since it seems to be a trend there of late.

http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/...ed_816680.html

Cain · 14th December 2012, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler

I follow national news headlines pretty constantly.

I don't think staying informed about our country is the same thing as inviting darkness into my heart.

Is it noble to avoid bad news?

I mean obsessing over details, especially when these early reports are invariably inaccurate. It's not making anyone more informed about anything than listening to my "friend" Amy drone on about how "this one Starbucks" messes up her order. These follow a familiar pattern: everyone wants to see a picture of the killer, the face of evil. They want to know why he did it. Then biographies of the victims pour in "Aidan, 5, though his mom says he'd insist he was "five and a half," loved to run and wanted to one day become a police officer." Then Obama, the griever-in-chief, will come in, meet with the families privately, and give a speech at the school gym. A year later we'll see retrospectives about how the community is coping and it will all be very public.

scarlettinlondon · 14th December 2012, 12:17 PM

I want to say this.

It is my view that gun ownership for civilians is AT LEAST partially responsible for this tragedy.

Any country that allows gun ownership for civilians is being wilfully blind to their part of the blame

English people feel no less free for not being allowed to carry/own guns

We don't have the freedom to carry guns

We don't have the freedom to fear this kind of tragedy

We don't have to train our children in schools what to do if there is a gunman in the building.

Ban guns. You won't regret it

thaiboxerken · 14th December 2012, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

The one that just happened in an elementary school in China is quite the coincidence...not really, since it seems to be a trend there of late.

http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/...ed_816680.html

Wow. How many died?

Delscottio · 14th December 2012, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

The one that just happened in an elementary school in China is quite the coincidence...not really, since it seems to be a trend there of late.

http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/...ed_816680.html

"hurts 22 kids" is better than "kills 22 kids" imo.

Anyway I don't think the issue of gun control is the only thing, a number of issues are mixed up in there with no easy answer.

scarlettinlondon · 14th December 2012, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

Wow. How many died?

none

which is the difference between a knife wielding maniac and a gun wielding maniac

LTC8K6 · 14th December 2012, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

Wow. How many died?

I wasn't going to go there, but since you did...

Knives are already illegal in schools...China has recently cracked down on security in schools.

AdMan · 14th December 2012, 12:20 PM

In his emotional address, President Obama implied that something will need to be done on gun control, "regardless of the politics."

deadrose · 14th December 2012, 12:22 PM

Now they're reporting his girlfriend and another person are missing.

LTC8K6 · 14th December 2012, 12:23 PM

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-202_162-6650660.html

5 were killed in this earlier stabbing spree in China.

Quote:

In the space of two months, the country saw five major assaults against schoolchildren, leaving 17 dead and more than 50 wounded.

erlando · 14th December 2012, 12:24 PM

"We are going to have to come together and take meaningful action to stop more incidents like these, regardless of the politics."

Please do. Please.

scarlettinlondon · 14th December 2012, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Delscottio

Anyway I don't think the issue of gun control is the only thing, a number of issues are mixed up in there with no easy answer.

It's a bloody good place to start

Polaris · 14th December 2012, 12:25 PM

On one of the Dawkins posts' comments on this subject, someone asked a pertinent question:

(Paraphrasing) How do mentally ill people still have legal access to firearms? Wouldn't it make sense to have some kind of alarm bell that went off when someone who is on doctor-prescribed mood- or brain chemistry-altering medication was attempting to purchase a weapon?

TragicMonkey · 14th December 2012, 12:26 PM

I'd say the central problem isn't that guns are available but that help for mental illness isn't. Not easily, anyway, and not cheaply. "Crazy person slaughters fifty with axe!" headline says to me "fix the crazies" not "destroy the axes".

Cain · 14th December 2012, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

They will always find a way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

Which explains why we've had so many more bombings than shootings. This stuff is just so unbelievably dumb. Guns facilitate murder. If I recall correctly, the Columbine kids had pipe bombs... which killed no one. James Holmes' bomb killed approximately zero point zero people. Bombs are lot more difficult than guns. I'm reasonably confident that armed with a gun, I could kill or injure at least one person. Trying to make a bomb, I'd probably kill or injure myself. And then I'd have to move it, plant it, time it, and hope everything goes according to plan.

People are dumb. Especially criminals. It's impossible to stop violence, but we can create obstacles. In the case of bombs, we don't allow people to sell them on the open market. You can't go to the bomb store, and buy a competently made explosive disguised as a jewelry box.

Ziggurat · 14th December 2012, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by scarlettinlondon

Ban guns. You won't regret it

"After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military." - William Burroughs

Biscuit · 14th December 2012, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by GeeMack

Really? You'd ask that and claim to be a gun owner? Pardon me while I compose myself...

Now how about you take it to a gun control thread.

I see you have nothing.

remirol · 14th December 2012, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

I'd say the central problem isn't that guns are available but that help for mental illness isn't. Not easily, anyway, and not cheaply. "Crazy person slaughters fifty with axe!" headline says to me "fix the crazies" not "destroy the axes".

Lizzie Borden thanks you.

NoahFence · 14th December 2012, 12:27 PM

The thing I'm having a hard time with are all the requests for prayers. They're literally plastered all over my facebook wall. I want so badly to just grab these people and remind them that IF there was a God, and IF he was all-powerful, this

: stain would have been plastered on a 5th of Jack Daniels and he would have driven himself into a tree on the way to his shooting spree.

FFS. AAAARRGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!

I can't go there though. Their grief is real and their need to believe is too great. So I sit here and stew silently, waiting for 5PM so I can grab my own taste of Jack when i go home.

Ziggurat · 14th December 2012, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

I'd say the central problem isn't that guns are available but that help for mental illness isn't. Not easily, anyway, and not cheaply. "Crazy person slaughters fifty with axe!" headline says to me "fix the crazies" not "destroy the axes".

This ^^.

Ben Adams · 14th December 2012, 12:28 PM

If I had a dime for every person in America that got pissed enough at someone over the last month to want to kill them, I would be a rich man.

And a homeless one for every person that actually did it.

You people think so much of yourself and the sanctity of the human experience.

Oh 25 people oh no it's a tragedy lets take everybody guns THAT will fix it!

Too bad you cant fix the 10,000,000 people in Africa who are dead from aids because the pope doesn't like condoms....

Get a grip on yourselves, Jesus Christ.........
It aint the end of the world YET..............

You people should be PROUD that so many people own guns in this country and we STILL only have THIS FEW of incidents like this.

LTC8K6 · 14th December 2012, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by AdMan

In his emotional address, President Obama implied that something will need to be done on gun control, "regardless of the politics."

A handgun permit is already required to purchase any handgun in CT, and NJ has some of the strictest gun control laws in the country.

LTC8K6 · 14th December 2012, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by Cain

Which explains why we've had so many more bombings than shootings. This stuff is just so unbelievably dumb. Guns facilitate murder. If I recall correctly, the Columbine kids had pipe bombs... which killed no one. James Holmes' bomb killed approximately zero point zero people. Bombs are lot more difficult than guns. I'm reasonably confident that armed with a gun, I could kill or injure at least one person. Trying to make a bomb, I'd probably kill or injure myself. And then I'd have to move it, plant it, time it, and hope everything goes according to plan.

People are dumb. Especially criminals. It's impossible to stop violence, but we can create obstacles. In the case of bombs, we don't allow people to sell them on the open market. You can't go to the bomb store, and buy a competently made explosive disguised as a jewelry box.

We can get guns. If we couldn't get guns...

We can buy blackpowder by the pound... among other items...

Biscuit · 14th December 2012, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

I have a hard time believing this guy would've killed people if he didn't have access to guns.

Or if as a society we treated guns as more of a responsibility and less of right. If we could just admit that guns do kill people.

Delscottio · 14th December 2012, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by scarlettinlondon

It's a bloody good place to start

Too far gone with the number of guns out there.

I should had I am from the UK and am more than happy with our approach, but I am not sure if any restriction could be effectively policed in the US.

NoahFence · 14th December 2012, 12:31 PM

Quote:

You people should be PROUD that so many people own guns in this country and we STILL only have THIS FEW of incidents like this.

Interesting use of the language. Are you unfamiliar with what "few" means?

14th December 2012, 11:57 AM	#121
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 20,947	Originally Posted by Rolfe You know, I'd have thought that by now people on this forum were accustomed enough to your style of black irony to understand this post, but apparently not. Rolfe. The problem is, the gun nuts here use the exact same arguments with sincerity.
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

14th December 2012, 11:59 AM	#122
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: East of Sweeden Posts: 9,648	Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler Why? Two words: Reality TV.
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

14th December 2012, 11:59 AM	#123
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 20,947	Originally Posted by Sabretooth I am pro-gun as well. However, actions such as this...where a man walks into a KIDS school and starts firing away...it isn't about the guns. This guy wanted to go out in a demon-blaze and you'd be hard pressed to make me believe he wouldn't have found another weapon(s) to make sure it happened. I have a hard time believing this guy would've killed people if he didn't have access to guns.
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

14th December 2012, 11:59 AM	#124
Delscottio Muse Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 808	BBC reporting Lanza's younger brother is being held in custody.
Delscottio Muse Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 808

14th December 2012, 11:59 AM	#125
UNLoVedRebel Hard Knocks Doctorate Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: School of Hard Knocks Posts: 5,507	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer I did too. Ryan Lanza. I guess it's too late to send a friend request. He's like the 3rd one down if you search that name. Says his hometown is Newtown CT. Not any more. Many dopplegangers or whatever you call them already sprung up. The one reply post that's accessible: Jonathan Russell "Look like you're about to buy an Ale, but then paint a picture of it... very mixed... all good, though. Kinda like if Solid Snake was wearing a Neo trenchcoat. This can only turn out awesome." His pic has now been shared 14,133 times.
	__________________ "All the Officialiers here typically have rancid alien avatars or else some kind of violent military-type avatar. Once again affirming my contention that 9/11 Officialiers are the most violent, murderous, group of people in the United States. Both statistically confirmed, but also anecdotally affirmed in almost every case of active pro-Officialers." - FloydGoethe

14th December 2012, 12:00 PM	#126
Rolfe Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 34,314	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken The problem is, the gun nuts here use the exact same arguments with sincerity. Yes. That's why he does it. It's always perfectly clear if you read for comprehension. (And I speak as one who was utterly suckered by a very similar post of his in one of the Lockerbie threads and then had to come back and apologise for my rant.) Rolfe.
	__________________ "The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.

14th December 2012, 12:03 PM	#127
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 20,947	Some crazy guy went on a shooting spree local to my area at a mall 2 days ago. Only 3 people were shot, 2 died. But guns aren't the problem, guns are innocent, like bunnies.
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

14th December 2012, 12:06 PM	#128
Rolfe Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 34,314	Originally Posted by Quad4_72 I just don't know the answer to this type of tragedy. Do you ban guns completely, and punish the 50 million or so responsible gun owners out there because of the horrific actions of a few people? Do you make guns much harder to obtain because .01% of the gun population does the wrong thing? I don't think any of those things is the right answer, but I am not sure what is. Well, that's what we did after Dunblane. Even though guns were already much more difficult to obtain here at that time than they are in the USA. It's hard to know for sure how much effect that has had, given the rarity of this sort of occurrence, but it's been over 16 years and it hasn't happened again - not in a school, to children. Rolfe.
	__________________ "The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.

14th December 2012, 12:06 PM	#129
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 26,696	Originally Posted by Cain It puzzles me why anyone would read story after story on this or watch continuous updates on the news. A bunch of kids were slaughtered. Some deranged ******* did it. Why invite that kind of darkness into your heart? I follow national news headlines pretty constantly. I don't think staying informed about our country is the same thing as inviting darkness into my heart. Is it noble to avoid bad news?
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons

14th December 2012, 12:08 PM	#130
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 20,947	Originally Posted by Rolfe Well, that's what we did after Dunblane. Even though guns were already much more difficult to obtain here at that time than they are in the USA. It's hard to know for sure how much effect that has had, given the rarity of this sort of occurrence, but it's been over 16 years and it hasn't happened again - not in a school, to children. Rolfe. You don't have guys going on stabbing sprees in crowded areas?
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

14th December 2012, 12:09 PM	#131
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,881	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer I thought the mom was found dead at home? They just said "a parent". We may assume from the other information that one was his father.
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,881	__________________ There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed. Wash this space! We fight for the Lady Babylon!!!

14th December 2012, 12:11 PM	#132
Mister Earl Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 2,116	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer I did too. Ryan Lanza. I guess it's too late to send a friend request. He's like the 3rd one down if you search that name. Says his hometown is Newtown CT. I tried to click the "retroactively smite" button and discovered there still isn't one, despite my repeated troubletickets to the facebook tech support team.

14th December 2012, 12:12 PM	#133
Rat Not bored. Never bored. Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Leicester, UK Posts: 7,050	Originally Posted by Rolfe Well, that's what we did after Dunblane. Even though guns were already much more difficult to obtain here at that time than they are in the USA. It's hard to know for sure how much effect that has had, given the rarity of this sort of occurrence, but it's been over 16 years and it hasn't happened again - not in a school, to children. Rolfe. Dunblane itself was ten years or so after Michael Ryan. It was after Ryan that most automatics were banned.
	__________________ "Man muß den Menschen vor allem nach seinen Lastern beurteilen. Tugenden können vorgetäuscht sein. Laster sind echt." - Klaus Kinski UKLS 1988- Sitting on the fence throwing stones at both sides.

14th December 2012, 12:13 PM	#134
LTC8K6 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail Posts: 12,616	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken I have a hard time believing this guy would've killed people if he didn't have access to guns. They will always find a way. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster
	__________________ What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

14th December 2012, 12:15 PM	#135
LTC8K6 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail Posts: 12,616	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken You don't have guys going on stabbing sprees in crowded areas? The one that just happened in an elementary school in China is quite the coincidence...not really, since it seems to be a trend there of late. http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/...ed_816680.html
	__________________ What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

14th December 2012, 12:16 PM	#136
Cain Straussian Join Date: May 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,933	Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler I follow national news headlines pretty constantly. I don't think staying informed about our country is the same thing as inviting darkness into my heart. Is it noble to avoid bad news? I mean obsessing over details, especially when these early reports are invariably inaccurate. It's not making anyone more informed about anything than listening to my "friend" Amy drone on about how "this one Starbucks" messes up her order. These follow a familiar pattern: everyone wants to see a picture of the killer, the face of evil. They want to know why he did it. Then biographies of the victims pour in "Aidan, 5, though his mom says he'd insist he was "five and a half," loved to run and wanted to one day become a police officer." Then Obama, the griever-in-chief, will come in, meet with the families privately, and give a speech at the school gym. A year later we'll see retrospectives about how the community is coping and it will all be very public.
	__________________ *Arrested Development* is coming back! Michael (to GOB): Get rid of the Seaward. Lucille: I’ll leave when I’m good and ready.

14th December 2012, 12:17 PM	#137
scarlettinlondon Thinker Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 193	I want to say this. It is my view that gun ownership for civilians is AT LEAST partially responsible for this tragedy. Any country that allows gun ownership for civilians is being wilfully blind to their part of the blame English people feel no less free for not being allowed to carry/own guns We don't have the freedom to carry guns We don't have the freedom to fear this kind of tragedy We don't have to train our children in schools what to do if there is a gunman in the building. Ban guns. You won't regret it
scarlettinlondon Thinker Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 193

14th December 2012, 12:17 PM	#138
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 20,947	Originally Posted by LTC8K6 The one that just happened in an elementary school in China is quite the coincidence...not really, since it seems to be a trend there of late. http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/...ed_816680.html Wow. How many died?
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

14th December 2012, 12:19 PM	#139
Delscottio Muse Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 808	Originally Posted by LTC8K6 The one that just happened in an elementary school in China is quite the coincidence...not really, since it seems to be a trend there of late. http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/...ed_816680.html "hurts 22 kids" is better than "kills 22 kids" imo. Anyway I don't think the issue of gun control is the only thing, a number of issues are mixed up in there with no easy answer.
Delscottio Muse Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 808

14th December 2012, 12:20 PM	#140
scarlettinlondon Thinker Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 193	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken Wow. How many died? none which is the difference between a knife wielding maniac and a gun wielding maniac
scarlettinlondon Thinker Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 193

14th December 2012, 12:20 PM	#141
LTC8K6 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail Posts: 12,616	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken Wow. How many died? I wasn't going to go there, but since you did... Knives are already illegal in schools...China has recently cracked down on security in schools.
	__________________ What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

14th December 2012, 12:20 PM	#142
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,160	In his emotional address, President Obama implied that something will need to be done on gun control, "regardless of the politics."
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,160	__________________ It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan Last edited by AdMan; 14th December 2012 at 12:22 PM.

14th December 2012, 12:22 PM	#143
deadrose Muse Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: the wet side of the mountains Posts: 816	Now they're reporting his girlfriend and another person are missing.

14th December 2012, 12:23 PM	#144
LTC8K6 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail Posts: 12,616	http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-202_162-6650660.html 5 were killed in this earlier stabbing spree in China. Quote: In the space of two months, the country saw five major assaults against schoolchildren, leaving 17 dead and more than 50 wounded.
	__________________ What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

14th December 2012, 12:24 PM	#145
erlando Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Denmark Posts: 1,006	"We are going to have to come together and take meaningful action to stop more incidents like these, regardless of the politics." Please do. Please.
	__________________ "If it can grow, it can evolve" - Eugenie Scott, Ph.D Creationism disproved? Evolution IS a blind watchmaker

14th December 2012, 12:25 PM	#146
scarlettinlondon Thinker Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 193	Originally Posted by Delscottio Anyway I don't think the issue of gun control is the only thing, a number of issues are mixed up in there with no easy answer. It's a bloody good place to start
scarlettinlondon Thinker Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 193

14th December 2012, 12:25 PM	#147
Polaris Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,167	On one of the Dawkins posts' comments on this subject, someone asked a pertinent question: (Paraphrasing) How do mentally ill people still have legal access to firearms? Wouldn't it make sense to have some kind of alarm bell that went off when someone who is on doctor-prescribed mood- or brain chemistry-altering medication was attempting to purchase a weapon?
Polaris Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,167	__________________ "There's vastly more truth to be found in rocks than in holy books. Rocks are far superior, in fact, because you can DEMONSTRATE the truth found in rocks. Plus, they're pretty. Holy books are just heavy." - Dinwar "Roy Moore of Alabama. The world would absolutely benefit by him being run over by any vehicle." - Lowpro

14th December 2012, 12:26 PM	#148
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Pither Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 30,059	I'd say the central problem isn't that guns are available but that help for mental illness isn't. Not easily, anyway, and not cheaply. "Crazy person slaughters fifty with axe!" headline says to me "fix the crazies" not "destroy the axes".
	__________________ One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.

14th December 2012, 12:26 PM	#149
Cain Straussian Join Date: May 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,933	Originally Posted by LTC8K6 They will always find a way. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster Which explains why we've had so many more bombings than shootings. This stuff is just so unbelievably dumb. Guns facilitate murder. If I recall correctly, the Columbine kids had pipe bombs... which killed no one. James Holmes' bomb killed approximately zero point zero people. Bombs are lot more difficult than guns. I'm reasonably confident that armed with a gun, I could kill or injure at least one person. Trying to make a bomb, I'd probably kill or injure myself. And then I'd have to move it, plant it, time it, and hope everything goes according to plan. People are dumb. Especially criminals. It's impossible to stop violence, but we can create obstacles. In the case of bombs, we don't allow people to sell them on the open market. You can't go to the bomb store, and buy a competently made explosive disguised as a jewelry box.
	__________________ *Arrested Development* is coming back! Michael (to GOB): Get rid of the Seaward. Lucille: I’ll leave when I’m good and ready.

14th December 2012, 12:27 PM	#150
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 26,180	Originally Posted by scarlettinlondon Ban guns. You won't regret it "After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military." - William Burroughs
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

14th December 2012, 12:27 PM	#151
Biscuit Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,764	Originally Posted by GeeMack Really? You'd ask that and claim to be a gun owner? Pardon me while I compose myself... Now how about you take it to a gun control thread. I see you have nothing.
Biscuit Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,764	__________________ “... there is no shame in not knowing. The problem arises when irrational thought and attendant behavior fill the vacuum left by ignorance.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

14th December 2012, 12:27 PM	#152
remirol Senior Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Etlanna, Jawja Posts: 7,546	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey I'd say the central problem isn't that guns are available but that help for mental illness isn't. Not easily, anyway, and not cheaply. "Crazy person slaughters fifty with axe!" headline says to me "fix the crazies" not "destroy the axes". Lizzie Borden thanks you.
	__________________ Roguelike player? Info: http://sporkhack.com -- Public server: telnet://sporkhack.com -- The church is near but the road is icy; the bar is far away but I will walk carefully. -- old Russian proverb

14th December 2012, 12:27 PM	#153
NoahFence Psycho Kitty Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Patriot Nation Posts: 9,296	The thing I'm having a hard time with are all the requests for prayers. They're literally plastered all over my facebook wall. I want so badly to just grab these people and remind them that IF there was a God, and IF he was all-powerful, this : stain would have been plastered on a 5th of Jack Daniels and he would have driven himself into a tree on the way to his shooting spree. FFS. AAAARRGGHHHHHH!!!!!!! I can't go there though. Their grief is real and their need to believe is too great. So I sit here and stew silently, waiting for 5PM so I can grab my own taste of Jack when i go home.
	__________________ Our truest life is when we are in our dreams awake. -Henry David Thoreau

14th December 2012, 12:28 PM	#154
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 26,180	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey I'd say the central problem isn't that guns are available but that help for mental illness isn't. Not easily, anyway, and not cheaply. "Crazy person slaughters fifty with axe!" headline says to me "fix the crazies" not "destroy the axes". This ^^.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

14th December 2012, 12:28 PM	#155
Ben Adams Muse Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Vieux Carré-Laissez les bons temps rouler! Posts: 660	If I had a dime for every person in America that got pissed enough at someone over the last month to want to kill them, I would be a rich man. And a homeless one for every person that actually did it. You people think so much of yourself and the sanctity of the human experience. Oh 25 people oh no it's a tragedy lets take everybody guns THAT will fix it! Too bad you cant fix the 10,000,000 people in Africa who are dead from aids because the pope doesn't like condoms.... Get a grip on yourselves, Jesus Christ......... It aint the end of the world YET.............. You people should be PROUD that so many people own guns in this country and we STILL only have THIS FEW of incidents like this.
	__________________ EY_E ^B_RING TH EE B^ACON