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Tags Connecticut incidents , gun issues , Sandy Hook , school incidents , school shootings , shooting incidents

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Old 14th December 2012, 11:57 AM   #121
thaiboxerken
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
You know, I'd have thought that by now people on this forum were accustomed enough to your style of black irony to understand this post, but apparently not.

Rolfe.
The problem is, the gun nuts here use the exact same arguments with sincerity.
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Old 14th December 2012, 11:59 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler View Post
Why?
Two words: Reality TV.
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Old 14th December 2012, 11:59 AM   #123
thaiboxerken
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Originally Posted by Sabretooth View Post
I am pro-gun as well. However, actions such as this...where a man walks into a KIDS school and starts firing away...it isn't about the guns.

This guy wanted to go out in a demon-blaze and you'd be hard pressed to make me believe he wouldn't have found another weapon(s) to make sure it happened.
I have a hard time believing this guy would've killed people if he didn't have access to guns.
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Old 14th December 2012, 11:59 AM   #124
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BBC reporting Lanza's younger brother is being held in custody.
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Old 14th December 2012, 11:59 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
I did too. Ryan Lanza. I guess it's too late to send a friend request.

He's like the 3rd one down if you search that name. Says his hometown is Newtown CT.
Not any more. Many dopplegangers or whatever you call them already sprung up. The one reply post that's accessible:

Jonathan Russell "Look like you're about to buy an Ale, but then paint a picture of it... very mixed... all good, though. Kinda like if Solid Snake was wearing a Neo trenchcoat. This can only turn out awesome."
His pic has now been shared 14,133 times.
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:00 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
The problem is, the gun nuts here use the exact same arguments with sincerity.

Yes. That's why he does it. It's always perfectly clear if you read for comprehension. (And I speak as one who was utterly suckered by a very similar post of his in one of the Lockerbie threads and then had to come back and apologise for my rant.)

Rolfe.
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:03 PM   #127
thaiboxerken
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Some crazy guy went on a shooting spree local to my area at a mall 2 days ago. Only 3 people were shot, 2 died. But guns aren't the problem, guns are innocent, like bunnies.
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:06 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Quad4_72 View Post
I just don't know the answer to this type of tragedy. Do you ban guns completely, and punish the 50 million or so responsible gun owners out there because of the horrific actions of a few people? Do you make guns much harder to obtain because .01% of the gun population does the wrong thing? I don't think any of those things is the right answer, but I am not sure what is.

Well, that's what we did after Dunblane. Even though guns were already much more difficult to obtain here at that time than they are in the USA.

It's hard to know for sure how much effect that has had, given the rarity of this sort of occurrence, but it's been over 16 years and it hasn't happened again - not in a school, to children.

Rolfe.
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:06 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
It puzzles me why anyone would read story after story on this or watch continuous updates on the news. A bunch of kids were slaughtered. Some deranged ******* did it. Why invite that kind of darkness into your heart?
I follow national news headlines pretty constantly.

I don't think staying informed about our country is the same thing as inviting darkness into my heart.

Is it noble to avoid bad news?
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:08 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Well, that's what we did after Dunblane. Even though guns were already much more difficult to obtain here at that time than they are in the USA.

It's hard to know for sure how much effect that has had, given the rarity of this sort of occurrence, but it's been over 16 years and it hasn't happened again - not in a school, to children.

Rolfe.
You don't have guys going on stabbing sprees in crowded areas?
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:09 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
I thought the mom was found dead at home?
They just said "a parent". We may assume from the other information that one was his father.
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:11 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
I did too. Ryan Lanza. I guess it's too late to send a friend request.

He's like the 3rd one down if you search that name. Says his hometown is Newtown CT.
I tried to click the "retroactively smite" button and discovered there still isn't one, despite my repeated troubletickets to the facebook tech support team.
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:12 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Well, that's what we did after Dunblane. Even though guns were already much more difficult to obtain here at that time than they are in the USA.

It's hard to know for sure how much effect that has had, given the rarity of this sort of occurrence, but it's been over 16 years and it hasn't happened again - not in a school, to children.

Rolfe.
Dunblane itself was ten years or so after Michael Ryan. It was after Ryan that most automatics were banned.
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:13 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
I have a hard time believing this guy would've killed people if he didn't have access to guns.
They will always find a way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:15 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
You don't have guys going on stabbing sprees in crowded areas?
The one that just happened in an elementary school in China is quite the coincidence...not really, since it seems to be a trend there of late.

http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/...ed_816680.html
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:16 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler View Post
I follow national news headlines pretty constantly.

I don't think staying informed about our country is the same thing as inviting darkness into my heart.

Is it noble to avoid bad news?
I mean obsessing over details, especially when these early reports are invariably inaccurate. It's not making anyone more informed about anything than listening to my "friend" Amy drone on about how "this one Starbucks" messes up her order. These follow a familiar pattern: everyone wants to see a picture of the killer, the face of evil. They want to know why he did it. Then biographies of the victims pour in "Aidan, 5, though his mom says he'd insist he was "five and a half," loved to run and wanted to one day become a police officer." Then Obama, the griever-in-chief, will come in, meet with the families privately, and give a speech at the school gym. A year later we'll see retrospectives about how the community is coping and it will all be very public.
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:17 PM   #137
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I want to say this.

It is my view that gun ownership for civilians is AT LEAST partially responsible for this tragedy.

Any country that allows gun ownership for civilians is being wilfully blind to their part of the blame

English people feel no less free for not being allowed to carry/own guns

We don't have the freedom to carry guns

We don't have the freedom to fear this kind of tragedy

We don't have to train our children in schools what to do if there is a gunman in the building.

Ban guns. You won't regret it
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:17 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
The one that just happened in an elementary school in China is quite the coincidence...not really, since it seems to be a trend there of late.

http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/...ed_816680.html
Wow. How many died?
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:19 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
The one that just happened in an elementary school in China is quite the coincidence...not really, since it seems to be a trend there of late.

http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/...ed_816680.html
"hurts 22 kids" is better than "kills 22 kids" imo.

Anyway I don't think the issue of gun control is the only thing, a number of issues are mixed up in there with no easy answer.
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:20 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Wow. How many died?


none

which is the difference between a knife wielding maniac and a gun wielding maniac
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:20 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Wow. How many died?
I wasn't going to go there, but since you did...

Knives are already illegal in schools...China has recently cracked down on security in schools.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:20 PM   #142
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In his emotional address, President Obama implied that something will need to be done on gun control, "regardless of the politics."
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Last edited by AdMan; 14th December 2012 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:22 PM   #143
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Now they're reporting his girlfriend and another person are missing.
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:23 PM   #144
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http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-202_162-6650660.html

5 were killed in this earlier stabbing spree in China.

Quote:
In the space of two months, the country saw five major assaults against schoolchildren, leaving 17 dead and more than 50 wounded.
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:24 PM   #145
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"We are going to have to come together and take meaningful action to stop more incidents like these, regardless of the politics."

Please do. Please.
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:25 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by Delscottio View Post

Anyway I don't think the issue of gun control is the only thing, a number of issues are mixed up in there with no easy answer.
It's a bloody good place to start
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:25 PM   #147
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On one of the Dawkins posts' comments on this subject, someone asked a pertinent question:

(Paraphrasing) How do mentally ill people still have legal access to firearms? Wouldn't it make sense to have some kind of alarm bell that went off when someone who is on doctor-prescribed mood- or brain chemistry-altering medication was attempting to purchase a weapon?
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:26 PM   #148
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I'd say the central problem isn't that guns are available but that help for mental illness isn't. Not easily, anyway, and not cheaply. "Crazy person slaughters fifty with axe!" headline says to me "fix the crazies" not "destroy the axes".
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:26 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Which explains why we've had so many more bombings than shootings. This stuff is just so unbelievably dumb. Guns facilitate murder. If I recall correctly, the Columbine kids had pipe bombs... which killed no one. James Holmes' bomb killed approximately zero point zero people. Bombs are lot more difficult than guns. I'm reasonably confident that armed with a gun, I could kill or injure at least one person. Trying to make a bomb, I'd probably kill or injure myself. And then I'd have to move it, plant it, time it, and hope everything goes according to plan.

People are dumb. Especially criminals. It's impossible to stop violence, but we can create obstacles. In the case of bombs, we don't allow people to sell them on the open market. You can't go to the bomb store, and buy a competently made explosive disguised as a jewelry box.
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:27 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by scarlettinlondon View Post
Ban guns. You won't regret it
"After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military." - William Burroughs
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:27 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by GeeMack View Post
Really? You'd ask that and claim to be a gun owner? Pardon me while I compose myself...

Now how about you take it to a gun control thread.
I see you have nothing.
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:27 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I'd say the central problem isn't that guns are available but that help for mental illness isn't. Not easily, anyway, and not cheaply. "Crazy person slaughters fifty with axe!" headline says to me "fix the crazies" not "destroy the axes".
Lizzie Borden thanks you.
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:27 PM   #153
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The thing I'm having a hard time with are all the requests for prayers. They're literally plastered all over my facebook wall. I want so badly to just grab these people and remind them that IF there was a God, and IF he was all-powerful, this : stain would have been plastered on a 5th of Jack Daniels and he would have driven himself into a tree on the way to his shooting spree.

FFS. AAAARRGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!

I can't go there though. Their grief is real and their need to believe is too great. So I sit here and stew silently, waiting for 5PM so I can grab my own taste of Jack when i go home.
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:28 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I'd say the central problem isn't that guns are available but that help for mental illness isn't. Not easily, anyway, and not cheaply. "Crazy person slaughters fifty with axe!" headline says to me "fix the crazies" not "destroy the axes".
This ^^.
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:28 PM   #155
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If I had a dime for every person in America that got pissed enough at someone over the last month to want to kill them, I would be a rich man.

And a homeless one for every person that actually did it.

You people think so much of yourself and the sanctity of the human experience.

Oh 25 people oh no it's a tragedy lets take everybody guns THAT will fix it!

Too bad you cant fix the 10,000,000 people in Africa who are dead from aids because the pope doesn't like condoms....

Get a grip on yourselves, Jesus Christ.........
It aint the end of the world YET..............

You people should be PROUD that so many people own guns in this country and we STILL only have THIS FEW of incidents like this.
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:28 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by AdMan View Post
In his emotional address, President Obama implied that something will need to be done on gun control, "regardless of the politics."
A handgun permit is already required to purchase any handgun in CT, and NJ has some of the strictest gun control laws in the country.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:30 PM   #157
LTC8K6
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Which explains why we've had so many more bombings than shootings. This stuff is just so unbelievably dumb. Guns facilitate murder. If I recall correctly, the Columbine kids had pipe bombs... which killed no one. James Holmes' bomb killed approximately zero point zero people. Bombs are lot more difficult than guns. I'm reasonably confident that armed with a gun, I could kill or injure at least one person. Trying to make a bomb, I'd probably kill or injure myself. And then I'd have to move it, plant it, time it, and hope everything goes according to plan.

People are dumb. Especially criminals. It's impossible to stop violence, but we can create obstacles. In the case of bombs, we don't allow people to sell them on the open market. You can't go to the bomb store, and buy a competently made explosive disguised as a jewelry box.
We can get guns. If we couldn't get guns...

We can buy blackpowder by the pound... among other items...
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

Last edited by LTC8K6; 14th December 2012 at 12:31 PM.
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:31 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
I have a hard time believing this guy would've killed people if he didn't have access to guns.
Or if as a society we treated guns as more of a responsibility and less of right. If we could just admit that guns do kill people.
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:31 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by scarlettinlondon View Post
It's a bloody good place to start
Too far gone with the number of guns out there.

I should had I am from the UK and am more than happy with our approach, but I am not sure if any restriction could be effectively policed in the US.
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:31 PM   #160
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Quote:
You people should be PROUD that so many people own guns in this country and we STILL only have THIS FEW of incidents like this.
Interesting use of the language. Are you unfamiliar with what "few" means?
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