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Tags Connecticut incidents , gun issues , Sandy Hook , school incidents , school shootings , shooting incidents

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Old 14th December 2012, 12:57 PM   #201
scarlettinlondon
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
I think a maniac who wanted to kill a bunch of kids would have just done something else if he couldn't use a gun.

A car is even easier to get, and you can mow down a lot of people with one, if you're crazy, or elderly...

A bomb is not that hard to make, especially if you're crazy and have time to plot and have internet access...

I just hate the idea of making a law based on what crazy people do or might do...

We had an "assault weapons" ban already, which did absolutely nothing,
except make it harder to get the exact rifle I wanted...didn't really ban anything capable of a massacre...

Somehow the way a rifle looks, makes it more deadly in some states still...
Or having to change a mag after 10 rounds somehow makes the gun safer...

I hope whatever law they come up with makes some sense, but I know it probably won't...

We will prob get a reissue of the Clinton "assault weapons" ban.
No. It's easier to kill a lot of people quickly with a gun than it is with a car. Or a bomb. Otherwise there would be more mass car murder sprees.
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:57 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
So you ban everything that isn't on Maslow's Heirarchy?
I just cannot understand

A.The idea that because a few people misuse something that something should be taken away for everybody.

B.The whole mentality where people seem endlessly ready to give up individual liberty because of some utopian social ideal.
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:58 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
His hometown was listed as the place of the shooting, and he lives in Jersey, and he's in his early 20s. It's a coincidence of monumental proportion if that isn't him. Even money says it's his brother updating his facebook page, not him.
You mean the dead brother?

I feel for the guy and I see no reason to believe he's speaking from the grave. Lanza is a common name and so is Ryan.
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:58 PM   #204
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You don't want to give up your constitutional right to own a gun? Fine. Then just make it HARD (and I mean really hard) to qualify for owning a gun. None of this 21 day waiting period ********. Obligatory hands-on training for every gun type owned. Obligatory re-qualification every 2 years.

And tax the hell out of the bullets.
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Old 14th December 2012, 12:59 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
I think a maniac who wanted to kill a bunch of kids would have just done something else if he couldn't use a gun.
http://brobrubel.files.wordpress.com...res-copy-2.jpg

"Yes, yes, I know. He would have killed those people with something else. Lawn furniture, maybe."
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Old 14th December 2012, 01:00 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by erlando View Post
You don't want to give up your constitutional right to own a gun? Fine. Then just make it HARD (and I mean really hard) to qualify for owning a gun. None of this 21 day waiting period ********. Obligatory hands-on training for every gun type owned. Obligatory re-qualification every 2 years.

And tax the hell out of the bullets.
I love that $5,000 bullet suggestion Chris Rock made.
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Old 14th December 2012, 01:00 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by erlando View Post
You don't want to give up your constitutional right to own a gun? Fine. Then just make it HARD (and I mean really hard) to qualify for owning a gun. None of this 21 day waiting period ********. Obligatory hands-on training for every gun type owned. Obligatory re-qualification every 2 years.

And tax the hell out of the bullets.
So only the rich can enjoy the shooting sports?
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Old 14th December 2012, 01:01 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by scarlettinlondon View Post
I think you should give up that right. I think you should voluntarily and with glee give up that right. I don't think your right to have a gun outweighs the rights of those children to life.

Before you say it, I know you didn't kill them. I am sure you are responsible.

Someone else wasn't. You sound to me like a child saying it wasn't my stone that broke the window, therefore mummy shouldn't have come and stopped me from throwing stones around the garden
God,your self righteouness is sickening.
And we AMericans are wierd:We are extremly reluctant to give up individual rights.
And we AMericans also resent being told what to do by citizens of a foreign country.
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Old 14th December 2012, 01:01 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by ehcks View Post
I like hunting. I like venison. As long as we keep being dumb about wolves we have to hunt deer anyway.

So I'd like to at least keep hunting rifles and shotguns.
Fine. In the UK you can get a gun and a gun licence for shooting and legitimate hunting. We have no problem with that. Farmers keep guns for shooting predators and stray dogs etc. We allow guns for legitimate purposes

We don't allow civilians to own or carry guns as it's not neccesary.

It works fine. I think you should try it. I recommend it. After all, what do you really have to lose other than a right which seems very antiquated in this modern world.
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Old 14th December 2012, 01:01 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
His hometown was listed as the place of the shooting, and he lives in Jersey, and he's in his early 20s. It's a coincidence of monumental proportion if that isn't him. Even money says it's his brother updating his facebook page, not him.

At least a couple of the networks are now saying the name may not be correct.
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Old 14th December 2012, 01:01 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
You don't have guys going on stabbing sprees in crowded areas?

Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
The one that just happened in an elementary school in China is quite the coincidence...not really, since it seems to be a trend there of late.

http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/...ed_816680.html

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Wow. How many died?

Actually, something similar happened in England, not long after Dunblane. The aggressor used a machete. The teacher was given an award for bravery afterwards. It's quite hard to trace accounts of the incident, but it was in Wolverhampton.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolverh...machete_attack

The reason the name isn't on everyone's lips is - nobody was killed.

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Old 14th December 2012, 01:01 PM   #212
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Interesting how people cant wait to spread the BS, faster than a speeding bullet, BS graces the pages of the internet.
I heard the guy was a transgender evangelical with a bi-polar disorder who would have thunk it.
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Old 14th December 2012, 01:02 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
That's possibly true, but often when these things unfold it turns out the guns used were newly acquired.

We should be able to limit the availability of needlessly large clips and at least decrease the numbers of dead in some of these tragedies.
I'm still not sure how having to swap magazines would save anyone. It takes all of a second to do.

What you really want is fixed box magazines that have to be loaded from the top with stripper clips. They are pretty clumsy to use and slow to reload.

A broomhandle mauser is a classic example.

That would even slow me down.

Making a removable magazine smaller would not really slow me down if I were on a rampage.
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Old 14th December 2012, 01:03 PM   #214
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And if you guys want to change the constitution of the United States you should start with outlawing religion not guns...
Once religion is gone the guns will take care of themselves.....
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Old 14th December 2012, 01:03 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
God,your self righteouness is sickening.
And we AMericans are wierd:We are extremly reluctant to give up individual rights.
And we AMericans also resent being told what to do by citizens of a foreign country.
This is the attitude that keeps these events happening. Sure, if you don't feel like it don't look at a system that doesn't have these problems and learn from it. Clearly I feel that I am right. Clearly you do.
I advise only
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Old 14th December 2012, 01:04 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
I think a maniac who wanted to kill a bunch of kids would have just done something else if he couldn't use a gun.

...
There's no doubt. Some guy in China just stabbed to death a couple dozen school kids today as well.

But the idea is we might be able to decrease the frequency and the head count with some restrictions.
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Old 14th December 2012, 01:04 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
God,your self righteouness is sickening.
And we AMericans are wierd:We are extremly reluctant to give up individual rights.
And we AMericans also resent being told what to do by citizens of a foreign country.
Especially by the same people who waste no time telling Americans what ******** they are when they tell other countries what to do.
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Old 14th December 2012, 01:04 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by erlando View Post
You don't want to give up your constitutional right to own a gun?
Just treat it as we do any other constitutional right: recognize that it's not unlimited and that sometimes public safety outweighs the right.

Again, though, the biggest problem with the gun debate is that it's always phrased in terms of good guys and bad guys (or even criminals as opposed to law-abiding people), ignoring the fact that more than half of all gun deaths are suicides.

We could make common sense laws that would not be overly burdensome on most gun owners while likely reducing the number of gun fatalities due to mental illness.

As for these other silly strawman arguments (like outlawing matches because arson can kill people, or outlawing knives because knives are sometimes used in homicides), no one is calling for prohibition of all gun ownership (or at least it's not part of any mainstream debate, and there will never be any such legislation or constitutional amendment passed, or even seriously debated).

And until the number of fatalities due to arson or stabbing gets somewhere close to the number of gun-related deaths, that analogy is false.
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Old 14th December 2012, 01:04 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by scarlettinlondon View Post
I think you should give up that right. I think you should voluntarily and with glee give up that right.

This. I thought that in 1996, and I still think so.

Good luck convincing the colonials.

Rolfe.
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Old 14th December 2012, 01:05 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by ehcks View Post
http://brobrubel.files.wordpress.com...res-copy-2.jpg

"yes, yes, i know. He would have killed those people with something else. Lawn furniture, maybe."
this
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Old 14th December 2012, 01:05 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
I'm still not sure how having to swap magazines would save anyone. It takes all of a second to do.

What you really want is fixed box magazines that have to be loaded from the top with stripper clips. They are pretty clumsy to use and slow to reload.

A broomhandle mauser is a classic example.

That would even slow me down.

Making a removable magazine smaller would not really slow me down if I were on a rampage.
More than one of these shooters were stopped while reloading.
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Old 14th December 2012, 01:05 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I just cannot understand

A.The idea that because a few people misuse something that something should be taken away for everybody.

B.The whole mentality where people seem endlessly ready to give up individual liberty because of some utopian social ideal.
Fear
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Old 14th December 2012, 01:06 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by scarlettinlondon View Post
Fine. In the UK you can get a gun and a gun licence for shooting and legitimate hunting. We have no problem with that. Farmers keep guns for shooting predators and stray dogs etc. We allow guns for legitimate purposes

We don't allow civilians to own or carry guns as it's not neccesary.

It works fine. I think you should try it. I recommend it. After all, what do you really have to lose other than a right which seems very antiquated in this modern world.
I don't consider shooting stray dogs legitimate unless its attacking, or clearly about to attack someone. And I'm a pro-gun 'merican.
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Old 14th December 2012, 01:06 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
There's no doubt. Some guy in China just stabbed to death a couple dozen school kids today as well.

But the idea is we might be able to decrease the frequency and the head count with some restrictions.

It's my understanding that 22 children were stabbed. They all lived. Willing to be corrected
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Old 14th December 2012, 01:06 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by scarlettinlondon View Post
No. It's easier to kill a lot of people quickly with a gun than it is with a car. Or a bomb. Otherwise there would be more mass car murder sprees.
I think we don't have very many mass murder sprees in any case.

I would guess that serial killer type sprees are more common.
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Old 14th December 2012, 01:07 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
There's no doubt. Some guy in China just stabbed to death a couple dozen school kids today as well.

But the idea is we might be able to decrease the frequency and the head count with some restrictions.

Nobody was killed in China today, at least not in that incident. Just as nobody was killed in Wolverhampton.

It's really hard to commit mass murder with a knife.

Rolfe.
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Old 14th December 2012, 01:07 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by scarlettinlondon View Post
I think you should give up that right. I think you should voluntarily and with glee give up that right. I don't think your right to have a gun outweighs the rights of those children to life.

Before you say it, I know you didn't kill them. I am sure you are responsible.

Someone else wasn't. You sound to me like a child saying it wasn't my stone that broke the window, therefore mummy shouldn't have come and stopped me from throwing stones around the garden
Huh?

Well, let's see. What else should I give up? Cars kill, so those should go. Knives. Tobacco. Alcohol. Baseball Bats. Hockey Sticks. Skateboards. Bricks....

C'mon. That argument is silly at best. Why not propose we all just live in isolated padded rooms so no one hurts each other?

Based on the known info at this point, it's easy to imagine a scenario where a large knife (or two) would help this lunatic do exactly what he did today.

I mean, FFS, this guy attacked a classroom full of helpless children! Whether he had a knife, gun, or bare fists, this event is a tragedy in every sense.
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Old 14th December 2012, 01:07 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by scarlettinlondon View Post
It's my understanding that 22 children were stabbed. They all lived. Willing to be corrected
The stabbing sprees have been going on in China for a while now. Many have been killed, apart from the most recent incident.
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Old 14th December 2012, 01:08 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by lobosrul View Post
I don't consider shooting stray dogs legitimate unless its attacking, or clearly about to attack someone. And I'm a pro-gun 'merican.
sheep worriers is what I meant. not Spot the jack russel out taking himself for a walk
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Old 14th December 2012, 01:09 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by ehcks View Post
http://brobrubel.files.wordpress.com...res-copy-2.jpg

"Yes, yes, I know. He would have killed those people with something else. Lawn furniture, maybe."
Pushed them out of 5th floor windows, I think.

Imagine the chaos...
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Old 14th December 2012, 01:09 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Some guy in China just stabbed to death a couple dozen school kids today as well.
I think you need to read those news reports again.
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Old 14th December 2012, 01:09 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by lobosrul View Post
I don't consider shooting stray dogs legitimate unless its attacking, or clearly about to attack someone. And I'm a pro-gun 'merican.
Or if it's horribly injured and sure to die anyway.

I can't imagine just shooting any healthy stray animal.
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Old 14th December 2012, 01:09 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
The stabbing sprees have been going on in China for a while now. Many have been killed, apart from the most recent incident.
Neither is great and I'm sure that most people would agree that both a knife and a gun is inappropriate anywhere near a child. Iwould judge though that there is a better chance of getting away from a knife wielding maniac than a gun wielding maniac
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Old 14th December 2012, 01:10 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
This. I thought that in 1996, and I still think so.

Good luck convincing the colonials.

Rolfe.
Colonials.....thanks of confirming what I suspected you think of Americans anyway.
Makes me very glad we kicked out the Brits in 1781....
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Old 14th December 2012, 01:10 PM   #235
NoahFence
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
So only the rich can enjoy the shooting sports?
Why not? They already have golf, sailing, polo and tennis. Us poor folks only get to beat the crap out of each other.
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Old 14th December 2012, 01:11 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by AdMan View Post
At least a couple of the networks are now saying the name may not be correct.
Fog of Whaaa???
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Old 14th December 2012, 01:14 PM   #237
dudalb
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
Fear
Partly and partly misplaced idealism

One thing to remember:When somebody wants to take away your freedom, they always have Good Sounding Reasons for doing so.

I am not against some reasonable limits on gun ownership:Througough Background check;60 day waiting period, limits on how much ammo you can buy at a time. I even don't see the need to won an assault rifle.
But Total Bans..or restrictions so strict they amount to a de facto Ban..I am totally opposed to and will fight by any means necessary.
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Old 14th December 2012, 01:14 PM   #238
LTC8K6
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
More than one of these shooters were stopped while reloading.
Link?

Reloading is unbelievably fast with a removable magazine and practice. I was in the US Army, and dropping an empty mag and inserting a full one takes all of one second, if that.

You would have the full mag in your hand already, if you were serious...
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 14th December 2012, 01:17 PM   #239
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AP is saying the shooter is Adam Lanza. Looks like Ryan is his older brother and is being questioned.
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Old 14th December 2012, 01:17 PM   #240
scarlettinlondon
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Originally Posted by Sabretooth View Post
Huh?

Well, let's see. What else should I give up? Cars kill, so those should go. Knives. Tobacco. Alcohol. Baseball Bats. Hockey Sticks. Skateboards. Bricks....

C'mon. That argument is silly at best. Why not propose we all just live in isolated padded rooms so no one hurts each other?

Based on the known info at this point, it's easy to imagine a scenario where a large knife (or two) would help this lunatic do exactly what he did today.

I mean, FFS, this guy attacked a classroom full of helpless children! Whether he had a knife, gun, or bare fists, this event is a tragedy in every sense.
This argument is because you are pro gun rights. My argument is because I am anti gun rights. We both believe ourselves to be right. You will not convince me that citizens should have the right to bear arms. I probably won't convince you paricularly in view of your finding my argument silly at best.

I have looked at your argument. I think you are right. Removing all guns will not stop all murders.
It might reduce them and it will likely reduce the
mass murders like this.

What I don't understand is why you are not willing to try the gun free experiment seeing as you can see from other countries positions that we have some success. You have nothing to lose other than your right as a civilian to carry a gun. If you think that this right is more important than tryng to reduce these tragedies then I will not be able to convince you to try it.

And I am sorry for my failure as I think you would like it when you got used to it. I like it. And we are not so very different as countries.
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