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scarlettinlondon · 14th December 2012, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

I think a maniac who wanted to kill a bunch of kids would have just done something else if he couldn't use a gun.

A car is even easier to get, and you can mow down a lot of people with one, if you're crazy, or elderly...

A bomb is not that hard to make, especially if you're crazy and have time to plot and have internet access...

I just hate the idea of making a law based on what crazy people do or might do...

We had an "assault weapons" ban already, which did absolutely nothing,
except make it harder to get the exact rifle I wanted...didn't really ban anything capable of a massacre...

Somehow the way a rifle looks, makes it more deadly in some states still...
Or having to change a mag after 10 rounds somehow makes the gun safer...

I hope whatever law they come up with makes some sense, but I know it probably won't...

We will prob get a reissue of the Clinton "assault weapons" ban.

No. It's easier to kill a lot of people quickly with a gun than it is with a car. Or a bomb. Otherwise there would be more mass car murder sprees.

dudalb · 14th December 2012, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Polaris

So you ban everything that isn't on Maslow's Heirarchy?

I just cannot understand

A.The idea that because a few people misuse something that something should be taken away for everybody.

B.The whole mentality where people seem endlessly ready to give up individual liberty because of some utopian social ideal.

Skeptic Ginger · 14th December 2012, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by NoahFence

His hometown was listed as the place of the shooting, and he lives in Jersey, and he's in his early 20s. It's a coincidence of monumental proportion if that isn't him. Even money says it's his brother updating his facebook page, not him.

You mean the dead brother?

I feel for the guy and I see no reason to believe he's speaking from the grave. Lanza is a common name and so is Ryan.

erlando · 14th December 2012, 12:58 PM

You don't want to give up your constitutional right to own a gun? Fine. Then just make it HARD (and I mean really hard) to qualify for owning a gun. None of this 21 day waiting period ********. Obligatory hands-on training for every gun type owned. Obligatory re-qualification every 2 years.

And tax the hell out of the bullets.

ehcks · 14th December 2012, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

I think a maniac who wanted to kill a bunch of kids would have just done something else if he couldn't use a gun.

http://brobrubel.files.wordpress.com...res-copy-2.jpg

"Yes, yes, I know. He would have killed those people with something else. Lawn furniture, maybe."

Skeptic Ginger · 14th December 2012, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by erlando

You don't want to give up your constitutional right to own a gun? Fine. Then just make it HARD (and I mean really hard) to qualify for owning a gun. None of this 21 day waiting period ********. Obligatory hands-on training for every gun type owned. Obligatory re-qualification every 2 years.

And tax the hell out of the bullets.

I love that $5,000 bullet suggestion Chris Rock made.

Polaris · 14th December 2012, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by erlando

You don't want to give up your constitutional right to own a gun? Fine. Then just make it HARD (and I mean really hard) to qualify for owning a gun. None of this 21 day waiting period ********. Obligatory hands-on training for every gun type owned. Obligatory re-qualification every 2 years.

And tax the hell out of the bullets.

So only the rich can enjoy the shooting sports?

dudalb · 14th December 2012, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by scarlettinlondon

I think you should give up that right. I think you should voluntarily and with glee give up that right. I don't think your right to have a gun outweighs the rights of those children to life.

Before you say it, I know you didn't kill them. I am sure you are responsible.

Someone else wasn't. You sound to me like a child saying it wasn't my stone that broke the window, therefore mummy shouldn't have come and stopped me from throwing stones around the garden

God,your self righteouness is sickening.
And we AMericans are wierd:We are extremly reluctant to give up individual rights.
And we AMericans also resent being told what to do by citizens of a foreign country.

scarlettinlondon · 14th December 2012, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by ehcks

I like hunting. I like venison. As long as we keep being dumb about wolves we have to hunt deer anyway.

So I'd like to at least keep hunting rifles and shotguns.

Fine. In the UK you can get a gun and a gun licence for shooting and legitimate hunting. We have no problem with that. Farmers keep guns for shooting predators and stray dogs etc. We allow guns for legitimate purposes

We don't allow civilians to own or carry guns as it's not neccesary.

It works fine. I think you should try it. I recommend it. After all, what do you really have to lose other than a right which seems very antiquated in this modern world.

AdMan · 14th December 2012, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by NoahFence

His hometown was listed as the place of the shooting, and he lives in Jersey, and he's in his early 20s. It's a coincidence of monumental proportion if that isn't him. Even money says it's his brother updating his facebook page, not him.

At least a couple of the networks are now saying the name may not be correct.

Rolfe · 14th December 2012, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

You don't have guys going on stabbing sprees in crowded areas?

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

The one that just happened in an elementary school in China is quite the coincidence...not really, since it seems to be a trend there of late.

http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/...ed_816680.html

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

Wow. How many died?

Actually, something similar happened in England, not long after Dunblane. The aggressor used a machete. The teacher was given an award for bravery afterwards. It's quite hard to trace accounts of the incident, but it was in Wolverhampton.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolverh...machete_attack

The reason the name isn't on everyone's lips is - nobody was killed.

Rolfe.

Ben Adams · 14th December 2012, 01:01 PM

Interesting how people cant wait to spread the BS, faster than a speeding bullet, BS graces the pages of the internet.
I heard the guy was a transgender evangelical with a bi-polar disorder who would have thunk it.

LTC8K6 · 14th December 2012, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

That's possibly true, but often when these things unfold it turns out the guns used were newly acquired.

We should be able to limit the availability of needlessly large clips and at least decrease the numbers of dead in some of these tragedies.

I'm still not sure how having to swap magazines would save anyone. It takes all of a second to do.

What you really want is fixed box magazines that have to be loaded from the top with stripper clips. They are pretty clumsy to use and slow to reload.

A broomhandle mauser is a classic example.

That would even slow me down.

Making a removable magazine smaller would not really slow me down if I were on a rampage.

Ben Adams · 14th December 2012, 01:03 PM

And if you guys want to change the constitution of the United States you should start with outlawing religion not guns...
Once religion is gone the guns will take care of themselves.....

scarlettinlondon · 14th December 2012, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

God,your self righteouness is sickening.
And we AMericans are wierd:We are extremly reluctant to give up individual rights.
And we AMericans also resent being told what to do by citizens of a foreign country.

This is the attitude that keeps these events happening. Sure, if you don't feel like it don't look at a system that doesn't have these problems and learn from it. Clearly I feel that I am right. Clearly you do.
I advise only

Skeptic Ginger · 14th December 2012, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

I think a maniac who wanted to kill a bunch of kids would have just done something else if he couldn't use a gun.

...

There's no doubt. Some guy in China just stabbed to death a couple dozen school kids today as well.

But the idea is we might be able to decrease the frequency and the head count with some restrictions.

Polaris · 14th December 2012, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

God,your self righteouness is sickening.
And we AMericans are wierd:We are extremly reluctant to give up individual rights.
And we AMericans also resent being told what to do by citizens of a foreign country.

Especially by the same people who waste no time telling Americans what ******** they are when they tell other countries what to do.

JoeTheJuggler · 14th December 2012, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by erlando

You don't want to give up your constitutional right to own a gun?

Just treat it as we do any other constitutional right: recognize that it's not unlimited and that sometimes public safety outweighs the right.

Again, though, the biggest problem with the gun debate is that it's always phrased in terms of good guys and bad guys (or even criminals as opposed to law-abiding people), ignoring the fact that more than half of all gun deaths are suicides.

We could make common sense laws that would not be overly burdensome on most gun owners while likely reducing the number of gun fatalities due to mental illness.

As for these other silly strawman arguments (like outlawing matches because arson can kill people, or outlawing knives because knives are sometimes used in homicides), no one is calling for prohibition of all gun ownership (or at least it's not part of any mainstream debate, and there will never be any such legislation or constitutional amendment passed, or even seriously debated).

And until the number of fatalities due to arson or stabbing gets somewhere close to the number of gun-related deaths, that analogy is false.

Rolfe · 14th December 2012, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by scarlettinlondon

I think you should give up that right. I think you should voluntarily and with glee give up that right.

This. I thought that in 1996, and I still think so.

Good luck convincing the colonials.

Rolfe.

scarlettinlondon · 14th December 2012, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by ehcks

http://brobrubel.files.wordpress.com...res-copy-2.jpg

"yes, yes, i know. He would have killed those people with something else. Lawn furniture, maybe."

this

Skeptic Ginger · 14th December 2012, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

I'm still not sure how having to swap magazines would save anyone. It takes all of a second to do.

What you really want is fixed box magazines that have to be loaded from the top with stripper clips. They are pretty clumsy to use and slow to reload.

A broomhandle mauser is a classic example.

That would even slow me down.

Making a removable magazine smaller would not really slow me down if I were on a rampage.

More than one of these shooters were stopped while reloading.

Giz · 14th December 2012, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

I just cannot understand

A.The idea that because a few people misuse something that something should be taken away for everybody.

B.The whole mentality where people seem endlessly ready to give up individual liberty because of some utopian social ideal.

Fear

lobosrul · 14th December 2012, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by scarlettinlondon

Fine. In the UK you can get a gun and a gun licence for shooting and legitimate hunting. We have no problem with that. Farmers keep guns for shooting predators and stray dogs etc. We allow guns for legitimate purposes

We don't allow civilians to own or carry guns as it's not neccesary.

It works fine. I think you should try it. I recommend it. After all, what do you really have to lose other than a right which seems very antiquated in this modern world.

I don't consider shooting stray dogs legitimate unless its attacking, or clearly about to attack someone. And I'm a pro-gun 'merican.

scarlettinlondon · 14th December 2012, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

There's no doubt. Some guy in China just stabbed to death a couple dozen school kids today as well.

But the idea is we might be able to decrease the frequency and the head count with some restrictions.

It's my understanding that 22 children were stabbed. They all lived. Willing to be corrected

LTC8K6 · 14th December 2012, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by scarlettinlondon

No. It's easier to kill a lot of people quickly with a gun than it is with a car. Or a bomb. Otherwise there would be more mass car murder sprees.

I think we don't have very many mass murder sprees in any case.

I would guess that serial killer type sprees are more common.

Rolfe · 14th December 2012, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

There's no doubt. Some guy in China just stabbed ~~to death~~ a couple dozen school kids today as well.

But the idea is we might be able to decrease the frequency and the head count with some restrictions.

Nobody was killed in China today, at least not in that incident. Just as nobody was killed in Wolverhampton.

It's really hard to commit mass murder with a knife.

Rolfe.

Sabretooth · 14th December 2012, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by scarlettinlondon

I think you should give up that right. I think you should voluntarily and with glee give up that right. I don't think your right to have a gun outweighs the rights of those children to life.

Before you say it, I know you didn't kill them. I am sure you are responsible.

Someone else wasn't. You sound to me like a child saying it wasn't my stone that broke the window, therefore mummy shouldn't have come and stopped me from throwing stones around the garden

Huh?

Well, let's see. What else should I give up? Cars kill, so those should go. Knives. Tobacco. Alcohol. Baseball Bats. Hockey Sticks. Skateboards. Bricks....

C'mon. That argument is silly at best. Why not propose we all just live in isolated padded rooms so no one hurts each other?

Based on the known info at this point, it's easy to imagine a scenario where a large knife (or two) would help this lunatic do exactly what he did today.

I mean, FFS, this guy attacked a classroom full of helpless children! Whether he had a knife, gun, or bare fists, this event is a tragedy in every sense.

LTC8K6 · 14th December 2012, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by scarlettinlondon

It's my understanding that 22 children were stabbed. They all lived. Willing to be corrected

The stabbing sprees have been going on in China for a while now. Many have been killed, apart from the most recent incident.

scarlettinlondon · 14th December 2012, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by lobosrul

I don't consider shooting stray dogs legitimate unless its attacking, or clearly about to attack someone. And I'm a pro-gun 'merican.

sheep worriers is what I meant. not Spot the jack russel out taking himself for a walk

LTC8K6 · 14th December 2012, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by ehcks

http://brobrubel.files.wordpress.com...res-copy-2.jpg

"Yes, yes, I know. He would have killed those people with something else. Lawn furniture, maybe."

Pushed them out of 5th floor windows, I think.

Imagine the chaos...

Ryokan · 14th December 2012, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Some guy in China just stabbed to death a couple dozen school kids today as well.

I think you need to read those news reports again.

ehcks · 14th December 2012, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by lobosrul

I don't consider shooting stray dogs legitimate unless its attacking, or clearly about to attack someone. And I'm a pro-gun 'merican.

Or if it's horribly injured and sure to die anyway.

I can't imagine just shooting any healthy stray animal.

scarlettinlondon · 14th December 2012, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

The stabbing sprees have been going on in China for a while now. Many have been killed, apart from the most recent incident.

Neither is great and I'm sure that most people would agree that both a knife and a gun is inappropriate anywhere near a child. Iwould judge though that there is a better chance of getting away from a knife wielding maniac than a gun wielding maniac

dudalb · 14th December 2012, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by Rolfe

This. I thought that in 1996, and I still think so.

Good luck convincing the colonials.

Rolfe.

Colonials.....thanks of confirming what I suspected you think of Americans anyway.
Makes me very glad we kicked out the Brits in 1781....

NoahFence · 14th December 2012, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by Polaris

So only the rich can enjoy the shooting sports?

Why not? They already have golf, sailing, polo and tennis. Us poor folks only get to beat the crap out of each other.

NoahFence · 14th December 2012, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by AdMan

At least a couple of the networks are now saying the name may not be correct.

Fog of Whaaa???

dudalb · 14th December 2012, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by Giz

Fear

Partly and partly misplaced idealism

One thing to remember:When somebody wants to take away your freedom, they always have Good Sounding Reasons for doing so.

I am not against some reasonable limits on gun ownership:Througough Background check;60 day waiting period, limits on how much ammo you can buy at a time. I even don't see the need to won an assault rifle.
But Total Bans..or restrictions so strict they amount to a de facto Ban..I am totally opposed to and will fight by any means necessary.

LTC8K6 · 14th December 2012, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

More than one of these shooters were stopped while reloading.

Link?

Reloading is unbelievably fast with a removable magazine and practice. I was in the US Army, and dropping an empty mag and inserting a full one takes all of one second, if that.

You would have the full mag in your hand already, if you were serious...

AdMan · 14th December 2012, 01:17 PM

AP is saying the shooter is Adam Lanza. Looks like Ryan is his older brother and is being questioned.

scarlettinlondon · 14th December 2012, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by Sabretooth

Huh?

Well, let's see. What else should I give up? Cars kill, so those should go. Knives. Tobacco. Alcohol. Baseball Bats. Hockey Sticks. Skateboards. Bricks....

C'mon. That argument is silly at best. Why not propose we all just live in isolated padded rooms so no one hurts each other?

Based on the known info at this point, it's easy to imagine a scenario where a large knife (or two) would help this lunatic do exactly what he did today.

I mean, FFS, this guy attacked a classroom full of helpless children! Whether he had a knife, gun, or bare fists, this event is a tragedy in every sense.

This argument is because you are pro gun rights. My argument is because I am anti gun rights. We both believe ourselves to be right. You will not convince me that citizens should have the right to bear arms. I probably won't convince you paricularly in view of your finding my argument silly at best.

I have looked at your argument. I think you are right. Removing all guns will not stop all murders.
It might reduce them and it will likely reduce the
mass murders like this.

What I don't understand is why you are not willing to try the gun free experiment seeing as you can see from other countries positions that we have some success. You have nothing to lose other than your right as a civilian to carry a gun. If you think that this right is more important than tryng to reduce these tragedies then I will not be able to convince you to try it.

And I am sorry for my failure as I think you would like it when you got used to it. I like it. And we are not so very different as countries.

14th December 2012, 12:57 PM	#201
scarlettinlondon Thinker Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 205	Originally Posted by LTC8K6 I think a maniac who wanted to kill a bunch of kids would have just done something else if he couldn't use a gun. A car is even easier to get, and you can mow down a lot of people with one, if you're crazy, or elderly... A bomb is not that hard to make, especially if you're crazy and have time to plot and have internet access... I just hate the idea of making a law based on what crazy people do or might do... We had an "assault weapons" ban already, which did absolutely nothing, except make it harder to get the exact rifle I wanted...didn't really ban anything capable of a massacre... Somehow the way a rifle looks, makes it more deadly in some states still... Or having to change a mag after 10 rounds somehow makes the gun safer... I hope whatever law they come up with makes some sense, but I know it probably won't... We will prob get a reissue of the Clinton "assault weapons" ban. No. It's easier to kill a lot of people quickly with a gun than it is with a car. Or a bomb. Otherwise there would be more mass car murder sprees.
scarlettinlondon Thinker Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 205

14th December 2012, 12:58 PM	#203
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shifting through paradigms Posts: 40,799	Originally Posted by NoahFence His hometown was listed as the place of the shooting, and he lives in Jersey, and he's in his early 20s. It's a coincidence of monumental proportion if that isn't him. Even money says it's his brother updating his facebook page, not him. You mean the dead brother? I feel for the guy and I see no reason to believe he's speaking from the grave. Lanza is a common name and so is Ryan.
	__________________ (*Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.)

14th December 2012, 12:58 PM	#204
erlando Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Denmark Posts: 1,016	You don't want to give up your constitutional right to own a gun? Fine. Then just make it HARD (and I mean really hard) to qualify for owning a gun. None of this 21 day waiting period ********. Obligatory hands-on training for every gun type owned. Obligatory re-qualification every 2 years. And tax the hell out of the bullets.
	__________________ "If it can grow, it can evolve" - Eugenie Scott, Ph.D Creationism disproved? Evolution IS a blind watchmaker

14th December 2012, 12:59 PM	#205
ehcks Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,717	Originally Posted by LTC8K6 I think a maniac who wanted to kill a bunch of kids would have just done something else if he couldn't use a gun. http://brobrubel.files.wordpress.com...res-copy-2.jpg "Yes, yes, I know. He would have killed those people with something else. Lawn furniture, maybe."
ehcks Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,717	__________________ Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor

14th December 2012, 01:00 PM	#206
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shifting through paradigms Posts: 40,799	Originally Posted by erlando You don't want to give up your constitutional right to own a gun? Fine. Then just make it HARD (and I mean really hard) to qualify for owning a gun. None of this 21 day waiting period ********. Obligatory hands-on training for every gun type owned. Obligatory re-qualification every 2 years. And tax the hell out of the bullets. I love that $5,000 bullet suggestion Chris Rock made.
	__________________ (*Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.)

14th December 2012, 12:57 PM	#202
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 23,023	Originally Posted by Polaris So you ban everything that isn't on Maslow's Heirarchy? I just cannot understand A.The idea that because a few people misuse something that something should be taken away for everybody. B.The whole mentality where people seem endlessly ready to give up individual liberty because of some utopian social ideal.

14th December 2012, 01:00 PM	#207
Polaris Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,229	Originally Posted by erlando You don't want to give up your constitutional right to own a gun? Fine. Then just make it HARD (and I mean really hard) to qualify for owning a gun. None of this 21 day waiting period ******. Obligatory hands-on training for every gun type owned. Obligatory re-qualification every 2 years. And tax the hell out of the bullets.** So only the rich can enjoy the shooting sports?
Polaris Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,229	__________________ "There's vastly more truth to be found in rocks than in holy books. Rocks are far superior, in fact, because you can DEMONSTRATE the truth found in rocks. Plus, they're pretty. Holy books are just heavy." - Dinwar "Roy Moore of Alabama. The world would absolutely benefit by him being run over by any vehicle." - Lowpro

14th December 2012, 01:01 PM	#208
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 23,023	Originally Posted by scarlettinlondon I think you should give up that right. I think you should voluntarily and with glee give up that right. I don't think your right to have a gun outweighs the rights of those children to life. Before you say it, I know you didn't kill them. I am sure you are responsible. Someone else wasn't. You sound to me like a child saying it wasn't my stone that broke the window, therefore mummy shouldn't have come and stopped me from throwing stones around the garden God,your self righteouness is sickening. And we AMericans are wierd:We are extremly reluctant to give up individual rights. And we AMericans also resent being told what to do by citizens of a foreign country.

14th December 2012, 01:01 PM	#209
scarlettinlondon Thinker Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 205	Originally Posted by ehcks I like hunting. I like venison. As long as we keep being dumb about wolves we have to hunt deer anyway. So I'd like to at least keep hunting rifles and shotguns. Fine. In the UK you can get a gun and a gun licence for shooting and legitimate hunting. We have no problem with that. Farmers keep guns for shooting predators and stray dogs etc. We allow guns for legitimate purposes We don't allow civilians to own or carry guns as it's not neccesary. It works fine. I think you should try it. I recommend it. After all, what do you really have to lose other than a right which seems very antiquated in this modern world.
scarlettinlondon Thinker Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 205

14th December 2012, 01:01 PM	#210
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,353	Originally Posted by NoahFence His hometown was listed as the place of the shooting, and he lives in Jersey, and he's in his early 20s. It's a coincidence of monumental proportion if that isn't him. Even money says it's his brother updating his facebook page, not him. At least a couple of the networks are now saying the name may not be correct.
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,353	__________________ It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

14th December 2012, 01:01 PM	#211
Rolfe Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 34,409	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken You don't have guys going on stabbing sprees in crowded areas? Originally Posted by LTC8K6 The one that just happened in an elementary school in China is quite the coincidence...not really, since it seems to be a trend there of late. http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/...ed_816680.html Originally Posted by thaiboxerken Wow. How many died? Actually, something similar happened in England, not long after Dunblane. The aggressor used a machete. The teacher was given an award for bravery afterwards. It's quite hard to trace accounts of the incident, but it was in Wolverhampton. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolverh...machete_attack The reason the name isn't on everyone's lips is - nobody was killed. Rolfe.
	__________________ "The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.

14th December 2012, 01:01 PM	#212
Ben Adams Banned Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Vieux Carré-Laissez les bons temps rouler! Posts: 692	Interesting how people cant wait to spread the BS, faster than a speeding bullet, BS graces the pages of the internet. I heard the guy was a transgender evangelical with a bi-polar disorder who would have thunk it.

14th December 2012, 01:02 PM	#213
LTC8K6 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail Posts: 12,756	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger That's possibly true, but often when these things unfold it turns out the guns used were newly acquired. We should be able to limit the availability of needlessly large clips and at least decrease the numbers of dead in some of these tragedies. I'm still not sure how having to swap magazines would save anyone. It takes all of a second to do. What you really want is fixed box magazines that have to be loaded from the top with stripper clips. They are pretty clumsy to use and slow to reload. A broomhandle mauser is a classic example. That would even slow me down. Making a removable magazine smaller would not really slow me down if I were on a rampage.
	__________________ What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

14th December 2012, 01:03 PM	#214
Ben Adams Banned Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Vieux Carré-Laissez les bons temps rouler! Posts: 692	And if you guys want to change the constitution of the United States you should start with outlawing religion not guns... Once religion is gone the guns will take care of themselves.....

14th December 2012, 01:03 PM	#215
scarlettinlondon Thinker Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 205	Originally Posted by dudalb God,your self righteouness is sickening. And we AMericans are wierd:We are extremly reluctant to give up individual rights. And we AMericans also resent being told what to do by citizens of a foreign country. This is the attitude that keeps these events happening. Sure, if you don't feel like it don't look at a system that doesn't have these problems and learn from it. Clearly I feel that I am right. Clearly you do. I advise only
scarlettinlondon Thinker Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 205

14th December 2012, 01:04 PM	#216
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shifting through paradigms Posts: 40,799	Originally Posted by LTC8K6 I think a maniac who wanted to kill a bunch of kids would have just done something else if he couldn't use a gun. ... There's no doubt. Some guy in China just stabbed to death a couple dozen school kids today as well. But the idea is we might be able to decrease the frequency and the head count with some restrictions.
	__________________ (*Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.)

14th December 2012, 01:04 PM	#217
Polaris Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,229	Originally Posted by dudalb God,your self righteouness is sickening. And we AMericans are wierd:We are extremly reluctant to give up individual rights. And we AMericans also resent being told what to do by citizens of a foreign country. Especially by the same people who waste no time telling Americans what ******** they are when they tell other countries what to do.
Polaris Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,229	__________________ "There's vastly more truth to be found in rocks than in holy books. Rocks are far superior, in fact, because you can DEMONSTRATE the truth found in rocks. Plus, they're pretty. Holy books are just heavy." - Dinwar "Roy Moore of Alabama. The world would absolutely benefit by him being run over by any vehicle." - Lowpro

14th December 2012, 01:04 PM	#218
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 27,173	Originally Posted by erlando You don't want to give up your constitutional right to own a gun? Just treat it as we do any other constitutional right: recognize that it's not unlimited and that sometimes public safety outweighs the right. Again, though, the biggest problem with the gun debate is that it's always phrased in terms of good guys and bad guys (or even criminals as opposed to law-abiding people), ignoring the fact that more than half of all gun deaths are suicides. We could make common sense laws that would not be overly burdensome on most gun owners while likely reducing the number of gun fatalities due to mental illness. As for these other silly strawman arguments (like outlawing matches because arson can kill people, or outlawing knives because knives are sometimes used in homicides), no one is calling for prohibition of all gun ownership (or at least it's not part of any mainstream debate, and there will never be any such legislation or constitutional amendment passed, or even seriously debated). And until the number of fatalities due to arson or stabbing gets somewhere close to the number of gun-related deaths, that analogy is false.
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons

14th December 2012, 01:04 PM	#219
Rolfe Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 34,409	Originally Posted by scarlettinlondon I think you should give up that right. I think you should voluntarily and with glee give up that right. This. I thought that in 1996, and I still think so. Good luck convincing the colonials. Rolfe.
	__________________ "The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.

14th December 2012, 01:05 PM	#220
scarlettinlondon Thinker Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 205	Originally Posted by ehcks http://brobrubel.files.wordpress.com...res-copy-2.jpg "yes, yes, i know. He would have killed those people with something else. Lawn furniture, maybe." this
scarlettinlondon Thinker Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 205

14th December 2012, 01:05 PM	#221
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shifting through paradigms Posts: 40,799	Originally Posted by LTC8K6 I'm still not sure how having to swap magazines would save anyone. It takes all of a second to do. What you really want is fixed box magazines that have to be loaded from the top with stripper clips. They are pretty clumsy to use and slow to reload. A broomhandle mauser is a classic example. That would even slow me down. Making a removable magazine smaller would not really slow me down if I were on a rampage. More than one of these shooters were stopped while reloading.
	__________________ (*Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.)

14th December 2012, 01:05 PM	#222
Giz Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: UK/US Posts: 3,526	Originally Posted by dudalb I just cannot understand A.The idea that because a few people misuse something that something should be taken away for everybody. B.The whole mentality where people seem endlessly ready to give up individual liberty because of some utopian social ideal. Fear

14th December 2012, 01:06 PM	#223
lobosrul Critical Thinker Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 333	Originally Posted by scarlettinlondon Fine. In the UK you can get a gun and a gun licence for shooting and legitimate hunting. We have no problem with that. Farmers keep guns for shooting predators and stray dogs etc. We allow guns for legitimate purposes We don't allow civilians to own or carry guns as it's not neccesary. It works fine. I think you should try it. I recommend it. After all, what do you really have to lose other than a right which seems very antiquated in this modern world. I don't consider shooting stray dogs legitimate unless its attacking, or clearly about to attack someone. And I'm a pro-gun 'merican.

14th December 2012, 01:06 PM	#224
scarlettinlondon Thinker Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 205	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger There's no doubt. Some guy in China just stabbed to death a couple dozen school kids today as well. But the idea is we might be able to decrease the frequency and the head count with some restrictions. It's my understanding that 22 children were stabbed. They all lived. Willing to be corrected
scarlettinlondon Thinker Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 205

14th December 2012, 01:06 PM	#225
LTC8K6 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail Posts: 12,756	Originally Posted by scarlettinlondon No. It's easier to kill a lot of people quickly with a gun than it is with a car. Or a bomb. Otherwise there would be more mass car murder sprees. I think we don't have very many mass murder sprees in any case. I would guess that serial killer type sprees are more common.
	__________________ What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

14th December 2012, 01:07 PM	#226
Rolfe Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 34,409	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger There's no doubt. Some guy in China just stabbed ~~to death~~ a couple dozen school kids today as well. But the idea is we might be able to decrease the frequency and the head count with some restrictions. Nobody was killed in China today, at least not in that incident. Just as nobody was killed in Wolverhampton. It's really hard to commit mass murder with a knife. Rolfe.
	__________________ "The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.

14th December 2012, 01:07 PM	#227
Sabretooth No Ordinary Rabbit Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Wyoming, NY Posts: 6,233	Originally Posted by scarlettinlondon I think you should give up that right. I think you should voluntarily and with glee give up that right. I don't think your right to have a gun outweighs the rights of those children to life. Before you say it, I know you didn't kill them. I am sure you are responsible. Someone else wasn't. You sound to me like a child saying it wasn't my stone that broke the window, therefore mummy shouldn't have come and stopped me from throwing stones around the garden Huh? Well, let's see. What else should I give up? Cars kill, so those should go. Knives. Tobacco. Alcohol. Baseball Bats. Hockey Sticks. Skateboards. Bricks.... C'mon. That argument is silly at best. Why not propose we all just live in isolated padded rooms so no one hurts each other? Based on the known info at this point, it's easy to imagine a scenario where a large knife (or two) would help this lunatic do exactly what he did today. I mean, FFS, this guy attacked a classroom full of helpless children! Whether he had a knife, gun, or bare fists, this event is a tragedy in every sense.
	__________________ -------------------------------------- Stop asking me about that stupid fruity cereal...that's the OTHER rabbit!

14th December 2012, 01:07 PM	#228
LTC8K6 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail Posts: 12,756	Originally Posted by scarlettinlondon It's my understanding that 22 children were stabbed. They all lived. Willing to be corrected The stabbing sprees have been going on in China for a while now. Many have been killed, apart from the most recent incident.
	__________________ What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

14th December 2012, 01:08 PM	#229
scarlettinlondon Thinker Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 205	Originally Posted by lobosrul I don't consider shooting stray dogs legitimate unless its attacking, or clearly about to attack someone. And I'm a pro-gun 'merican. sheep worriers is what I meant. not Spot the jack russel out taking himself for a walk
scarlettinlondon Thinker Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 205

14th December 2012, 01:09 PM	#230
LTC8K6 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail Posts: 12,756	Originally Posted by ehcks http://brobrubel.files.wordpress.com...res-copy-2.jpg "Yes, yes, I know. He would have killed those people with something else. Lawn furniture, maybe." Pushed them out of 5th floor windows, I think. Imagine the chaos...
	__________________ What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

14th December 2012, 01:09 PM	#231
Ryokan Insert something funny here Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 8,288	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger Some guy in China just stabbed to death a couple dozen school kids today as well. I think you need to read those news reports again.

14th December 2012, 01:09 PM	#232
ehcks Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,717	Originally Posted by lobosrul I don't consider shooting stray dogs legitimate unless its attacking, or clearly about to attack someone. And I'm a pro-gun 'merican. Or if it's horribly injured and sure to die anyway. I can't imagine just shooting any healthy stray animal.
ehcks Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,717	__________________ Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor

14th December 2012, 01:09 PM	#233
scarlettinlondon Thinker Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 205	Originally Posted by LTC8K6 The stabbing sprees have been going on in China for a while now. Many have been killed, apart from the most recent incident. Neither is great and I'm sure that most people would agree that both a knife and a gun is inappropriate anywhere near a child. Iwould judge though that there is a better chance of getting away from a knife wielding maniac than a gun wielding maniac
scarlettinlondon Thinker Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 205

14th December 2012, 01:10 PM	#234
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 23,023	Originally Posted by Rolfe This. I thought that in 1996, and I still think so. Good luck convincing the colonials. Rolfe. Colonials.....thanks of confirming what I suspected you think of Americans anyway. Makes me very glad we kicked out the Brits in 1781....

14th December 2012, 01:10 PM	#235
NoahFence Psycho Kitty Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Patriot Nation Posts: 9,431	Originally Posted by Polaris So only the rich can enjoy the shooting sports? Why not? They already have golf, sailing, polo and tennis. Us poor folks only get to beat the crap out of each other.
	__________________ Our truest life is when we are in our dreams awake. -Henry David Thoreau