Android 'Freedom' and the 'Apple Trap'...

SatansMaleVoiceChoir · 16th December 2012, 04:22 AM

Can somebody explain either of those to me please?

Whenever the subject of Android Vs Apple comes up, or even usually a smartphone discussion, these things are always - or very often - brought up by Android users.

Even in this forum I have seen both 'Freedom' and 'Apple Trap' mentioned, but with no explanation of either.

As far as freedom goes, I cannot think of a single thing that an Android device can do that I cannot do with my iPhone and would actually want to do(personally speaking).

Someone mentioned that I can't use an iPhone as portable storage, whereas you can with an Android device. My initial thought was "Oh, OK - fair point actually", but then I stopped and considered it carefully, and I cannot think of a single real-world instance where I have needed to do so in the past, or would actually EVER need to do so. Maybe it's just me and most of the people who I have ever met that own smartphones, but I see my iPhone as a phone/communication device, internet browser and media player - not a portable hard drive.

As for the 'Apple Trap', I am at a loss as to what that actually means.

Anyone?

Bram Kaandorp · 16th December 2012, 05:24 AM

I think freedom refers to software freedom, in the sense that Android is open source, but apple isn't.

Compare it to the discussions over Windows vs. Linux.

SatansMaleVoiceChoir · 16th December 2012, 05:25 AM

Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp

I think freedom refers to software freedom, in the sense that Android is open source, but apple isn't.

Compare it to the discussions over Windows vs. Linux.

So how is that advantageous?

Bram Kaandorp · 16th December 2012, 05:29 AM

Originally Posted by SatansMaleVoiceChoir

So how is that advantageous?

It's advantageous for anyone who would want to fix a bug they noticed.

In Apple, you'd have to wait for the bug to be repaired. In Android, you're allowed to do it yourself.

Also, in licensing. You are allowed to install Android as often and on as many devices as you'd want.

Try that with iOS.

SatansMaleVoiceChoir · 16th December 2012, 05:37 AM

Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp

It's advantageous for anyone who would want to fix a bug they noticed.

In Apple, you'd have to wait for the bug to be repaired. In Android, you're allowed to do it yourself.

OK... but that makes no odds to me or anybody I know who owns an iOS device (which is a lot), as none of us would know how to fix a bug anyway. I'd imagine that goes for a huge, vast, number of iOS users as well, so that's a bit of a non-'feature'.

Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp

Also, in licensing. You are allowed to install Android as often and on as many devices as you'd want.

Try that with iOS.

Why would I - or anyone - want to do that?

Bram Kaandorp · 16th December 2012, 05:50 AM

Originally Posted by SatansMaleVoiceChoir

OK... but that makes no odds to me or anybody I know who owns an iOS device (which is a lot), as none of us would know how to fix a bug anyway. I'd imagine that goes for a huge, vast, number of iOS users as well, so that's a bit of a non-'feature'.

It's like the right to same-sex marriage. Just because I am heterosexual doesn't mean someone else won't make use of it.

Quote:

Why would I - or anyone - want to do that?

If you were to do a complete reinstall of all of your android devices, but with a new version, would you rather buy 5 (1-use) licenses, or 1 license (which you don't even have to pay for) that you can use for al 5 devices and more?

SatansMaleVoiceChoir · 16th December 2012, 06:01 AM

Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp

It's like the right to same-sex marriage. Just because I am heterosexual doesn't mean someone else won't make use of it.

Yes, but to continue your analogy (

) I'm not interested in homosexuality and I couldn't do it if I tried, as with the vast majority of human beings, so same sex-marriage is hardly a reason to become homosexual for the heterosexual majority, is it? The fact that a tiny minority can benefit from a feature of an OS is hardly going to make the majority who can't use it rush out to get it, or clamour for it to be a part of their OS.

Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp

If you were to do a complete reinstall of all of your android devices, but with a new version, would you rather buy 5 (1-use) licenses, or 1 license (which you don't even have to pay for) that you can use for al 5 devices and more?

Right... but if I want to do a reinstall of all my iOS devices, it gives me the latest version for free, every single time for as long as my device can support the latest version.

Checkmite · 16th December 2012, 06:03 AM

Buying an Apple mobile device entitles you to free OS updates for the lifetime of the device.

TheL8Elvis · 16th December 2012, 07:09 AM

Originally Posted by SatansMaleVoiceChoir

Can somebody explain either of those to me please?

Whenever the subject of Android Vs Apple comes up, or even usually a smartphone discussion, these things are always - or very often - brought up by Android users.

Even in this forum I have seen both 'Freedom' and 'Apple Trap' mentioned, but with no explanation of either.

As far as freedom goes, I cannot think of a single thing that an Android device can do that I cannot do with my iPhone and would actually want to do(personally speaking).

Someone mentioned that I can't use an iPhone as portable storage, whereas you can with an Android device. My initial thought was "Oh, OK - fair point actually", but then I stopped and considered it carefully, and I cannot think of a single real-world instance where I have needed to do so in the past, or would actually EVER need to do so. Maybe it's just me and most of the people who I have ever met that own smartphones, but I see my iPhone as a phone/communication device, internet browser and media player - not a portable hard drive.

As for the 'Apple Trap', I am at a loss as to what that actually means.

Anyone?

The only poster I see using the term apple trap is Hungry81. And that poster clearly doesn't like apple, so you might just as well be better off simply asking him/her.

However, it could refer to the apple 'ecosystem'. Once you start buying apps from the app store, you become invested in it, and it might make you less likely to move to something like android because you would have to re-buy things. You also become used to using iTunes to manage your music, etc. So you keep buying apple products.

As for the freedom of Android ('freedom' to root your phone, sideload, widgets on your home screen, etc.) I suspect that < 1% of the users are making 99% of the noise about that :-)

SatansMaleVoiceChoir · 16th December 2012, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis

The only poster I see using the term apple trap is Hungry81. And that poster clearly doesn't like apple, so you might just as well be better off simply asking him/her.

I have seen the term used in other parts of the internet.

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis

However, it could refer to the apple 'ecosystem'. Once you start buying apps from the app store, you become invested in it, and it might make you less likely to move to something like android because you would have to re-buy things. You also become used to using iTunes to manage your music, etc. So you keep buying apple products.

So, the more you use it (because you like it?), the more you rely on it (because you like it?).

"Damn, I wish I could swap to another OS where I can get viruses and stuff, and have the opportunity to change the source code (even though I don't know how), but I've enjoyed using iOS for so long I'd have to buy all these Apps and songs I loved so much all over again!"... Yeah, that's some trap alright!

It's almost like if you bought an Android device, you're never able to use your iOS device again to play music or Apps.. Oh, wait - no it isn't.

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis

As for the freedom of Android ('freedom' to root your phone, sideload, widgets on your home screen, etc.) I suspect that < 1% of the users are making 99% of the noise about that :-)

Sorry, I wasn't just referring to here on the JREF; this mysterious 'freedom' is something that many Android users bring up all over the net.

RecoveringYuppy · 16th December 2012, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis

As for the freedom of Android ('freedom' to root your phone, sideload, widgets on your home screen, etc.) I suspect that < 1% of the users are making 99% of the noise about that :-)

If that 1% is the developer community (and who else would it be?) then that could make a big difference to everyone who uses the devices. The number of apps for Android tied the number for apps of iPhone fairly quickly. Arguably, this could be a reason why. It will be interesting to see how Microsoft fares in that regard.

Anecdotally, I've got three apps on my Android phone/tablets that I wrote myself, at least one other that I didn't obtain through anyones Android Marketplace, maybe a 100 people using apps I wrote that I didn't distribute through a marketplace, and developers where I work are distributing an app outside of a marketplace. So it appears to have made a difference to me.

TheL8Elvis · 16th December 2012, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by SatansMaleVoiceChoir

Sorry, I wasn't just referring to here on the JREF; this mysterious 'freedom' is something that many Android users bring up all over the net.

Oh, I wasn't just referring to JREF either. I think the 'freedom' crown is a very vocal minority.

SatansMaleVoiceChoir · 16th December 2012, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

If that 1% is the developer community (and who else would it be?) then that could make a big difference to everyone who uses the devices. The number of apps for Android tied the number for apps of iPhone fairly quickly. Arguably, this could be a reason why. It will be interesting to see how Microsoft fares in that regard.

Anecdotally, I've got three apps on my Android phone/tablets that I wrote myself, at least one other that I didn't obtain through anyones Android Marketplace, maybe a 100 people using apps I wrote that I didn't distribute through a marketplace, and developers where I work are distributing an app outside of a marketplace. So it appears to have made a difference to me.

Indeed, but how many people do you think buy an Android device because being able to code your own App is a deal-breaker for them? I'd suggest you are in a minority when compared to number of devices sold to number of people who can - and do - take advantage of being able to make their own Apps.

Of the (admittedly few) Android owners I have met, or know, none of them would even know what:

10 PRINT "ANDROID"
20 GOTO 10

Would mean or does, let alone code their own apps.

SatansMaleVoiceChoir · 16th December 2012, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis

Oh, I wasn't just referring to JREF either. I think the 'freedom' crown is a very vocal minority.

Relatively speaking, I suppose so. What I was thinking of is that when I was regularly search for iPhone 5 news, whenever I checked out the comments on an article, there were always one or two like that on each site.

Obviously, I know this doesn't mean ALL Android users felt the same...

RecoveringYuppy · 16th December 2012, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by SatansMaleVoiceChoir

Indeed, but how many people do you think buy an Android device because being able to code your own App is a deal-breaker for them? I'd suggest you are in a minority when compared to number of devices sold to number of people who can - and do - take advantage of being able to make their own Apps.

Yeah, but a lot of people in the majority care that developers develop apps for the device. That was my point. If developers aren't attracted to it then that's going to impact all the other users.

SatansMaleVoiceChoir · 16th December 2012, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

Yeah, but a lot of people in the majority care that developers develop apps for the device. That was my point. If developers aren't attracted to it then that's going to impact all the other users.

Fair enough, but I don't think that's what people are bragging about when they lecture Apple users about 'lack of freedom'; "Ha Ha! We have lots of people developing Apps for our devices! Suck on that, Apple users!"

Ryokan · 16th December 2012, 09:42 AM

I love my Android tablet. I can put whatever I want on it, unlike the iPad. When I'm out travelling, I put movies, books and comics on micro sd cards to bring with me. Can't do that on the iPad.

SatansMaleVoiceChoir · 16th December 2012, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by Ryokan

I love my Android tablet. I can put whatever I want on it, unlike the iPad. When I'm out travelling, I put movies, books and comics on micro sd cards to bring with me. Can't do that on the iPad.

Quite. I cant use a micro SD card - I just use iCloud to access any of my 20 feature films or 32 books or 1570 songs. I just keep some of the old favourites in local storage.

Captain_Swoop · 16th December 2012, 11:55 AM

I load stuff on and off my Ipad from an SD card.
I use a camera/card adapter I got from ebay for £4.50
plug it in and away I go.

SatansMaleVoiceChoir · 16th December 2012, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

I load stuff on and off my Ipad from an SD card.
I use a camera/card adapter I got from ebay for £4.50
plug it in and away I go.

Wasn't aware you can do that!

Like I say - I've never needed SD cards before anyway.

Bram Kaandorp · 16th December 2012, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by Checkmite

Buying an Apple mobile device entitles you to free OS updates for the lifetime of the device.

Didn't know that. Good policy.

Ferguson · 16th December 2012, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp

If you were to do a complete reinstall of all of your android devices, but with a new version, would you rather buy 5 (1-use) licenses, or 1 license (which you don't even have to pay for) that you can use for al 5 devices and more?

Huh? Is it even possible to "buy" an android or iOS license?

WildCat · 16th December 2012, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by SatansMaleVoiceChoir

Quite. I cant use a micro SD card - I just use iCloud to access any of my 20 feature films or 32 books or 1570 songs. I just keep some of the old favourites in local storage.

Not when you don't have acess to the iCloud.

Ever travel?

Giraffe107 · 16th December 2012, 06:27 PM

What I don't like about my iphone is I can't put whatever I want on it. For example I listen to podcasts- but you can only copy the five most recent podcasts onto your phone (not any 5 either, which would be ok, but only the 5 most recent). This is a problem because I listen at work or while out and about so I don't have access to my home network- I don't have mobile data on, and 3G is patchy at best where I live anyway.

My husband and I both have iphones- I still can't get icloud to work on my phone. I've reverted it back to factory settings about 3 times, still doesn't work. It can't handle two accounts it seems, I have lost a few apps that I've bought on my phone and then can't backup for some reasons, so when I've had bugs/crashes I've lost them completely.

As for getting free OS updates for life- the recent problems with the latest iOS don't make this all too appealing. About 50% of my friends with iphone 4/4s have lost all their contacts when they've upgraded to iOS6.

Checkmite · 16th December 2012, 06:33 PM

I'm able to download and keep any and as many episodes of any podcast that I want on my iPod, so long as there's disk space available. Any podcast episode you manually download will remain until you manually delete it, regardless of the auto download/delete settings.

WildCat · 16th December 2012, 09:27 PM

My Android OS was just upgraded to Jelly Bean for free.

SatansMaleVoiceChoir · 17th December 2012, 12:52 AM

Originally Posted by WildCat

Not when you don't have acess to the iCloud.

Ever travel?

Frequently. I suppose it would be an issue if I was going caving, or exploring the wilderness and had a sudden need to watch 'Krull' on my iPad. Given that all the hotels or places I stay at all have wifi then I'm pretty much covered. If I can't get wifi, then it's 3G. If I can't get 3G then I'd rely on internal storage until I could. Not that this has happened yet.

SatansMaleVoiceChoir · 17th December 2012, 01:02 AM

Originally Posted by Giraffe107

What I don't like about my iphone is I can't put whatever I want on it. For example I listen to podcasts- but you can only copy the five most recent podcasts onto your phone (not any 5 either, which would be ok, but only the 5 most recent). This is a problem because I listen at work or while out and about so I don't have access to my home network- I don't have mobile data on, and 3G is patchy at best where I live anyway.

I'm not sure what's happening there, but the only restriction on what you can store on your phone is storage space.

Originally Posted by Giraffe107

My husband and I both have iphones- I still can't get icloud to work on my phone. I've reverted it back to factory settings about 3 times, still doesn't work. It can't handle two accounts it seems, I have lost a few apps that I've bought on my phone and then can't backup for some reasons, so when I've had bugs/crashes I've lost them completely.

I'm not sure what you mean by "two accounts". Also "bugs/crashes"?

Originally Posted by Giraffe107

As for getting free OS updates for life- the recent problems with the latest iOS don't make this all too appealing. About 50% of my friends with iphone 4/4s have lost all their contacts when they've upgraded to iOS6.

I've never heard of problems like that when updating iOS. The biggest problem is usually the wait to get hold of it.

From everything you describe above, I think you should just cut your losses and get a Nokia 3310...

OnlyTellsTruths · 17th December 2012, 01:11 AM

Here's my attempt at answering the last time the OP asked this exact same question.

I literally can't believe no one has explained this yet in this thread:

Originally Posted by OnlyTellsTruths

Well it has nothing to do with Apple/Android at it's most basic level.

You can see that in the thread about the Microsoft Surface tablet.

The Surface with Win 8 RT is like Apple, you can only install what Microsoft approves into their App store.

The Surface with Win 8 Pro will on the other hand have freedom. You can install the large back catalog of Windows programs without having to wait for it to be "ported". Which includes just an insane amount of awesome freeware that has been created over the past 20 years. Developers can also release their own software, from their own website, without getting Microsoft's permission and/or getting it into some app store.

In other words, on Android you don't have to install stuff only from the Android store, you can install stuff from all over the web. AFAIK you would have to hack your iPhone to do that.

And then me getting all philosophical about it when the OP asked for clarification:

Originally Posted by OnlyTellsTruths

It could be similar to real freedom. It is impossible to know what freedom is unless you have had freedom AND not have had it.

I could use slavery as what I mean by not having freedom, or perhaps growing up in a totalitarian country the likes of which the world has never seen, but I will use prison. Not a cushy prison either. Absolute confinement. Only given what you need to stay alive. Period.

Basically, if you have lived your life never having lost freedom, you have no idea what freedom is.

If you lived your life never having freedom, you also have no idea what freedom is.

You have to have either A:

Lived a life of freedom and then lost it.

Or B:

Live a life without freedom and then gained it.

To know what freedom is.

There is no being told about it. There is no reading about it in a book. You would not truly know what freedom is by just learning about it.

Now obviously, it is a bit of a stretch to use real freedom in an analogy being used to compare tablet computers. But it might be the same time of thing.

In other words, you would have no idea how much more awesome the Surface running Win 8 Pro is compared to the Surface running Win 8 RT unless you spend time using both.

Personally, I would take more freedom over more security any day.

Same time next month?

SatansMaleVoiceChoir · 17th December 2012, 01:26 AM

Originally Posted by OnlyTellsTruths

Here's my attempt at answering the last time the OP asked this exact same question.

Yes, but your answer was rubbish, and I thought I'd open it to the floor.

Originally Posted by OnlyTellsTruths

In other words, on Android you don't have to install stuff only from the Android store, you can install stuff from all over the web. AFAIK you would have to hack your iPhone to do that.

Ah, well actually you make a fair point there. I'm sure many Apple users have sat staring forlornly at their device thinking "I really wish I could download stuff from the net. I simply haven't got enough stuff on my phone."

I enjoy using my iPhone 5, but it is seriously lacking in stuff - it's got all the apps, music, films and podcasts on it, or available to it, that I could possibly want, but it is just missing that vital ingredient - 'stuff'.

Um... What sort of 'stuff' am I missing out on by the way?

ETA: Forgot to mention, if by 'stuff' you're including web videos, then I can actually do that - there's an App for it. I forgot because it's something I don't do with any regularity.
ETA: Or, when you say 'stuff', do you mean 'pictures, photo's and GIFs', because I can do that as well.

Originally Posted by OnlyTellsTruths

And then me getting all philosophical about it when the OP asked for clarification:

Personally, I would take more freedom over more security any day.

Same time next month?

That's lovely. So what am I missing out on again? I know I'm not free to get viruses or malware, but I don't think I'm actually missing anything.

Captain_Swoop · 17th December 2012, 02:13 AM

When they say 'stuff' they mean Porn!

SatansMaleVoiceChoir · 17th December 2012, 02:22 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

When they say 'stuff' they mean Porn!

Ah!

Trust me - I'm not missing out on that by owning an Apple product!

Alan · 17th December 2012, 02:24 AM

About freedom of customisation.

What about Tasker? It's an app for Android that lets you automate things. Like, if you're at a certain location you set, it automatically sets your phone to be silent (work? cinema?). Or automatically turns off GPS when you get home (to save battery). Or only turn wifi/other data on when you open an app that uses it. Pretty much anything someone can think of, and those are just things I can think of, and I just bought it today.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...LnRhc2tlcm0iXQ..

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

What others have thought of:
http://lifehacker.com/5601133/push-y...-tasker-setups
http://tasker.wikidot.com/profile-index
http://androidforums.com/tasker/1582...-profiles.html

And there are lots of different interfaces for Android.
Here's one released recently:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

And different keyboard types, like this new one:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

or swiping ones like Swiftkey Flow

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

SatansMaleVoiceChoir · 17th December 2012, 03:18 AM

Originally Posted by Alan

About freedom of customisation.

What about Tasker? It's an app for Android that lets you automate things. Like, if you're at a certain location you set, it automatically sets your phone to be silent (work? cinema?). Or automatically turns off GPS when you get home (to save battery). Or only turn wifi/other data on when you open an app that uses it. Pretty much anything someone can think of, and those are just things I can think of, and I just bought it today.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...LnRhc2tlcm0iXQ..

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

OK, so that's something you have to pay £3.99 for though, so it's not a built-in feature of Android. Rather than pay £3.99 for that, I'd just tell Siri to remind me to switch off my phone when I got to a certain location, and leave it as a permanent reminder. Free.

I tend to keep my phone on silent at all times anyway, and use the vibrate function.

My phone automatically defaults to wifi when I'm near a known network.

Originally Posted by Alan

What others have thought of:
http://lifehacker.com/5601133/push-y...-tasker-setups
http://tasker.wikidot.com/profile-index
http://androidforums.com/tasker/1582...-profiles.html

Wow... OK; here's an example of how to set up the £3.99 App to read your messages while driving, on Android:

Quote:

Note: This won't, unfortunately, work for those using Google Voice as their only SMS app. Here's how to set it up:

Context: Event -> Phone -> Received SMS. Leave both fields blank, unless you want to specify a particular sender as the only SMS worth reading.

Context 2: Application -> Car Home (if two appear, choose the second/lower).

Task: Misc -> Say. Enter the following, or something like it, into the Text field, making sure to keep capitalization and the percentage marks:

SMS from %SMSRF: %SMSRB

%SMSRF is the sender variable, and %SMSRB is the body of the SMS. You can also customize the "Stream" this text is read on, i.e. the volume level it will obey.

Alternatives: In place of the Car Home application, you add contexts from the "State" menu like "Docked," "Bluetooth Connected," or "USB Plugged" to set up the conditions for when you're actually in your car.

On my iPhone I just hold down the home button, wait for the 'beep' and say "Read my messages". That's free.

Originally Posted by Alan

And there are lots of different interfaces for Android.
Here's one released recently:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

That's nice, but it's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Since owning an iPhone I have never once thought "My life would be so much EASIER if I could just open my Apps within ONE SECOND!!!". I have all my favourite apps right on my home screen. Admittedly, this is just me we're talking about, but I have never heard any of the many people I know complain about not being able to launch an App quickly enough!

ETA: And if I had so many Apps I couldn't remember where one was, I'd simply hold the home button, wait for the 'beep' and say "Open 'TheNameOfThatAppICan'tFind'".

Originally Posted by Alan

And different keyboard types, like this new one:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

That was a bad example; that keyboard is a monstrosity. Once again, a solution to a problem that does not exist. Why would I want to change from a standard keyboard that is second nature to me? I have never once thought - and none have my friends have ever said - "I wish someone would totally redesign the concept of a keyboard!" Besides, the iPad keyboard can be split in half to enable the user to type with their thumbs.

Originally Posted by Alan

or swiping ones like Swiftkey Flow

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

I had one similar as a free App on my first-gen iPhone. Once the novelty wore off, I stopped using it and went back to typing. To be fair, I don't think it's available anymore on iOS. However, once again, a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

Bram Kaandorp · 17th December 2012, 04:37 AM

Originally Posted by Ferguson

Huh? Is it even possible to "buy" an android or iOS license?

If you buy an Apple product, that includes a license to have Mac installed. It's the standard way of doing things in proprietary software.

That's one of the differences between it and free/open source software.

SatansMaleVoiceChoir · 17th December 2012, 04:51 AM

Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp

If you buy an Apple product, that includes a license to have Mac installed. It's the standard way of doing things in proprietary software.

That's one of the differences between it and free/open source software.

So what are we saying here? If I bought a device running an Android OS, this entitles me to download it onto any other device, like a Windows phone, or an iPhone?

Alan · 17th December 2012, 05:24 AM

That keyboard wasn't for you, but it is a perfect example of the customisability of Android. As with the others. And voice control is a feature on Android as well. And a complaint about a couple of dollars in a criticism of Android and a boast about iOS is strange.

erlando · 17th December 2012, 05:25 AM

Originally Posted by Giraffe107

What I don't like about my iphone is I can't put whatever I want on it. For example I listen to podcasts- but you can only copy the five most recent podcasts onto your phone (not any 5 either, which would be ok, but only the 5 most recent). This is a problem because I listen at work or while out and about so I don't have access to my home network- I don't have mobile data on, and 3G is patchy at best where I live anyway.

That's factually wrong. I have my iOS devices loaded with 20+ podcasts. Check your settings in iTunes. There is an option to transfer "recent", "checked" or "all".

SatansMaleVoiceChoir · 17th December 2012, 05:30 AM

Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp

If you buy an Apple product, that includes a license to have Mac installed. It's the standard way of doing things in proprietary software.

That's one of the differences between it and free/open source software.

So what are we saying here? If I bought a device running an Android OS, this entitles me to download it onto any other device, like a Windows phone, or an iPhone?

SatansMaleVoiceChoir · 17th December 2012, 05:40 AM

Originally Posted by Alan

That keyboard wasn't for you, but it is a perfect example of the customisability of Android. As with the others. And voice control is a feature on Android as well.

It's a perfect example of a solution without a problem. Again, this is just me, but I cannot ever imagine a time I would want to use a keyboard like that. How is offering me loads of redundant features the same as 'freedom'?

Originally Posted by Alan

And a complaint about a couple of dollars in a criticism of Android and a boast about iOS is strange.

It's not the money - it's the idea that Android is supposedly better than iOS because it gives you the 'freedom' to pay for and download something that allows you to do pretty much what I can already do on iOS, baked-in.

Looking at those links, it looks like 'Android Freedom' means "I can fiddle around typing codes into the guts of the OS, or buy an App that lets me fiddle around typing codes in, all so I can make some minor functionality changes (all of which are probably do-able in iOS anyway), which are only really superficial anyway."

16th December 2012, 04:22 AM	#1
SatansMaleVoiceChoir Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,300	Android 'Freedom' and the 'Apple Trap'... Can somebody explain either of those to me please? Whenever the subject of Android Vs Apple comes up, or even usually a smartphone discussion, these things are always - or very often - brought up by Android users. Even in this forum I have seen both 'Freedom' and 'Apple Trap' mentioned, but with no explanation of either. As far as freedom goes, I cannot think of a single thing that an Android device can do that I cannot do with my iPhone and would actually want to do(personally speaking). Someone mentioned that I can't use an iPhone as portable storage, whereas you can with an Android device. My initial thought was "Oh, OK - fair point actually", but then I stopped and considered it carefully, and I cannot think of a single real-world instance where I have needed to do so in the past, or would actually EVER need to do so. Maybe it's just me and most of the people who I have ever met that own smartphones, but I see my iPhone as a phone/communication device, internet browser and media player - not a portable hard drive. As for the 'Apple Trap', I am at a loss as to what that actually means. Anyone?
	__________________ The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. - Joseph Joubert Do not believe hastily. - Ovid There is no worse lie than a truth misunderstood by those who hear it. - William James Last edited by SatansMaleVoiceChoir; 16th December 2012 at 04:24 AM.

16th December 2012, 05:24 AM	#2
Bram Kaandorp Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Netherlands Posts: 2,240	I think freedom refers to software freedom, in the sense that Android is open source, but apple isn't. Compare it to the discussions over Windows vs. Linux.
	__________________ If autism is a "living death", does that make me a zombie? If so, that'd be great. Just don't get your brain in my general vicinity.

16th December 2012, 05:25 AM	#3
SatansMaleVoiceChoir Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,300	Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp I think freedom refers to software freedom, in the sense that Android is open source, but apple isn't. Compare it to the discussions over Windows vs. Linux. So how is that advantageous?
	__________________ The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. - Joseph Joubert Do not believe hastily. - Ovid There is no worse lie than a truth misunderstood by those who hear it. - William James

16th December 2012, 05:29 AM	#4
Bram Kaandorp Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Netherlands Posts: 2,240	Originally Posted by SatansMaleVoiceChoir So how is that advantageous? It's advantageous for anyone who would want to fix a bug they noticed. In Apple, you'd have to wait for the bug to be repaired. In Android, you're allowed to do it yourself. Also, in licensing. You are allowed to install Android as often and on as many devices as you'd want. Try that with iOS.
	__________________ If autism is a "living death", does that make me a zombie? If so, that'd be great. Just don't get your brain in my general vicinity.

16th December 2012, 05:37 AM	#5
SatansMaleVoiceChoir Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,300	Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp It's advantageous for anyone who would want to fix a bug they noticed. In Apple, you'd have to wait for the bug to be repaired. In Android, you're allowed to do it yourself. OK... but that makes no odds to me or anybody I know who owns an iOS device (which is a lot), as none of us would know how to fix a bug anyway. I'd imagine that goes for a huge, vast, number of iOS users as well, so that's a bit of a non-'feature'. Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp Also, in licensing. You are allowed to install Android as often and on as many devices as you'd want. Try that with iOS. Why would I - or anyone - want to do that?
	__________________ The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. - Joseph Joubert Do not believe hastily. - Ovid There is no worse lie than a truth misunderstood by those who hear it. - William James

16th December 2012, 05:50 AM	#6
Bram Kaandorp Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Netherlands Posts: 2,240	Originally Posted by SatansMaleVoiceChoir OK... but that makes no odds to me or anybody I know who owns an iOS device (which is a lot), as none of us would know how to fix a bug anyway. I'd imagine that goes for a huge, vast, number of iOS users as well, so that's a bit of a non-'feature'. It's like the right to same-sex marriage. Just because I am heterosexual doesn't mean someone else won't make use of it. Quote: Why would I - or anyone - want to do that? If you were to do a complete reinstall of all of your android devices, but with a new version, would you rather buy 5 (1-use) licenses, or 1 license (which you don't even have to pay for) that you can use for al 5 devices and more?
	__________________ If autism is a "living death", does that make me a zombie? If so, that'd be great. Just don't get your brain in my general vicinity.

16th December 2012, 06:01 AM	#7
SatansMaleVoiceChoir Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,300	Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp It's like the right to same-sex marriage. Just because I am heterosexual doesn't mean someone else won't make use of it. Yes, but to continue your analogy () I'm not interested in homosexuality and I couldn't do it if I tried, as with the vast majority of human beings, so same sex-marriage is hardly a reason to become homosexual for the heterosexual majority, is it? The fact that a tiny minority can benefit from a feature of an OS is hardly going to make the majority who can't use it rush out to get it, or clamour for it to be a part of their OS. Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp If you were to do a complete reinstall of all of your android devices, but with a new version, would you rather buy 5 (1-use) licenses, or 1 license (which you don't even have to pay for) that you can use for al 5 devices and more? Right... but if I want to do a reinstall of all my iOS devices, it gives me the latest version for free, every single time for as long as my device can support the latest version.
	__________________ The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. - Joseph Joubert Do not believe hastily. - Ovid There is no worse lie than a truth misunderstood by those who hear it. - William James

16th December 2012, 06:03 AM	#8
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Third in line Posts: 14,879	Buying an Apple mobile device entitles you to free OS updates for the lifetime of the device.
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002 Last edited by Checkmite; 16th December 2012 at 06:04 AM.

16th December 2012, 07:09 AM	#9
TheL8Elvis Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,516	Originally Posted by SatansMaleVoiceChoir Can somebody explain either of those to me please? Whenever the subject of Android Vs Apple comes up, or even usually a smartphone discussion, these things are always - or very often - brought up by Android users. Even in this forum I have seen both 'Freedom' and 'Apple Trap' mentioned, but with no explanation of either. As far as freedom goes, I cannot think of a single thing that an Android device can do that I cannot do with my iPhone and would actually want to do(personally speaking). Someone mentioned that I can't use an iPhone as portable storage, whereas you can with an Android device. My initial thought was "Oh, OK - fair point actually", but then I stopped and considered it carefully, and I cannot think of a single real-world instance where I have needed to do so in the past, or would actually EVER need to do so. Maybe it's just me and most of the people who I have ever met that own smartphones, but I see my iPhone as a phone/communication device, internet browser and media player - not a portable hard drive. As for the 'Apple Trap', I am at a loss as to what that actually means. Anyone? The only poster I see using the term apple trap is Hungry81. And that poster clearly doesn't like apple, so you might just as well be better off simply asking him/her. However, it could refer to the apple 'ecosystem'. Once you start buying apps from the app store, you become invested in it, and it might make you less likely to move to something like android because you would have to re-buy things. You also become used to using iTunes to manage your music, etc. So you keep buying apple products. As for the freedom of Android ('freedom' to root your phone, sideload, widgets on your home screen, etc.) I suspect that < 1% of the users are making 99% of the noise about that :-)
TheL8Elvis Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,516

16th December 2012, 08:03 AM	#10
SatansMaleVoiceChoir Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,300	Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis The only poster I see using the term apple trap is Hungry81. And that poster clearly doesn't like apple, so you might just as well be better off simply asking him/her. I have seen the term used in other parts of the internet. Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis However, it could refer to the apple 'ecosystem'. Once you start buying apps from the app store, you become invested in it, and it might make you less likely to move to something like android because you would have to re-buy things. You also become used to using iTunes to manage your music, etc. So you keep buying apple products. So, the more you use it (because you like it?), the more you rely on it (because you like it?). "Damn, I wish I could swap to another OS where I can get viruses and stuff, and have the opportunity to change the source code (even though I don't know how), but I've enjoyed using iOS for so long I'd have to buy all these Apps and songs I loved so much all over again!"... Yeah, that's some trap alright! It's almost like if you bought an Android device, you're never able to use your iOS device again to play music or Apps.. Oh, wait - no it isn't. Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis As for the freedom of Android ('freedom' to root your phone, sideload, widgets on your home screen, etc.) I suspect that < 1% of the users are making 99% of the noise about that :-) Sorry, I wasn't just referring to here on the JREF; this mysterious 'freedom' is something that many Android users bring up all over the net.
	__________________ The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. - Joseph Joubert Do not believe hastily. - Ovid There is no worse lie than a truth misunderstood by those who hear it. - William James

16th December 2012, 08:22 AM	#11
RecoveringYuppy Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,848	Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis As for the freedom of Android ('freedom' to root your phone, sideload, widgets on your home screen, etc.) I suspect that < 1% of the users are making 99% of the noise about that :-) If that 1% is the developer community (and who else would it be?) then that could make a big difference to everyone who uses the devices. The number of apps for Android tied the number for apps of iPhone fairly quickly. Arguably, this could be a reason why. It will be interesting to see how Microsoft fares in that regard. Anecdotally, I've got three apps on my Android phone/tablets that I wrote myself, at least one other that I didn't obtain through anyones Android Marketplace, maybe a 100 people using apps I wrote that I didn't distribute through a marketplace, and developers where I work are distributing an app outside of a marketplace. So it appears to have made a difference to me.
	__________________ REJ (Robert E Jones) posting anonymously under my real name for 30 years. Make a fire for a man and you keep him warm for a day. Set him on fire and you keep him warm for the rest of his life.

16th December 2012, 08:54 AM	#12
TheL8Elvis Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,516	Originally Posted by SatansMaleVoiceChoir Sorry, I wasn't just referring to here on the JREF; this mysterious 'freedom' is something that many Android users bring up all over the net. Oh, I wasn't just referring to JREF either. I think the 'freedom' crown is a very vocal minority.
TheL8Elvis Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,516

16th December 2012, 08:55 AM	#13
SatansMaleVoiceChoir Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,300	Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy If that 1% is the developer community (and who else would it be?) then that could make a big difference to everyone who uses the devices. The number of apps for Android tied the number for apps of iPhone fairly quickly. Arguably, this could be a reason why. It will be interesting to see how Microsoft fares in that regard. Anecdotally, I've got three apps on my Android phone/tablets that I wrote myself, at least one other that I didn't obtain through anyones Android Marketplace, maybe a 100 people using apps I wrote that I didn't distribute through a marketplace, and developers where I work are distributing an app outside of a marketplace. So it appears to have made a difference to me. Indeed, but how many people do you think buy an Android device because being able to code your own App is a deal-breaker for them? I'd suggest you are in a minority when compared to number of devices sold to number of people who can - and do - take advantage of being able to make their own Apps. Of the (admittedly few) Android owners I have met, or know, none of them would even know what: 10 PRINT "ANDROID" 20 GOTO 10 Would mean or does, let alone code their own apps.
	__________________ The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. - Joseph Joubert Do not believe hastily. - Ovid There is no worse lie than a truth misunderstood by those who hear it. - William James

16th December 2012, 08:58 AM	#14
SatansMaleVoiceChoir Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,300	Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis Oh, I wasn't just referring to JREF either. I think the 'freedom' crown is a very vocal minority. Relatively speaking, I suppose so. What I was thinking of is that when I was regularly search for iPhone 5 news, whenever I checked out the comments on an article, there were always one or two like that on each site. Obviously, I know this doesn't mean ALL Android users felt the same...
	__________________ The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. - Joseph Joubert Do not believe hastily. - Ovid There is no worse lie than a truth misunderstood by those who hear it. - William James

16th December 2012, 09:33 AM	#15
RecoveringYuppy Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,848	Originally Posted by SatansMaleVoiceChoir Indeed, but how many people do you think buy an Android device because being able to code your own App is a deal-breaker for them? I'd suggest you are in a minority when compared to number of devices sold to number of people who can - and do - take advantage of being able to make their own Apps. Yeah, but a lot of people in the majority care that developers develop apps for the device. That was my point. If developers aren't attracted to it then that's going to impact all the other users.
	__________________ REJ (Robert E Jones) posting anonymously under my real name for 30 years. Make a fire for a man and you keep him warm for a day. Set him on fire and you keep him warm for the rest of his life.

16th December 2012, 09:42 AM	#16
SatansMaleVoiceChoir Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,300	Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy Yeah, but a lot of people in the majority care that developers develop apps for the device. That was my point. If developers aren't attracted to it then that's going to impact all the other users. Fair enough, but I don't think that's what people are bragging about when they lecture Apple users about 'lack of freedom'; "Ha Ha! We have lots of people developing Apps for our devices! Suck on that, Apple users!"
	__________________ The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. - Joseph Joubert Do not believe hastily. - Ovid There is no worse lie than a truth misunderstood by those who hear it. - William James

16th December 2012, 09:42 AM	#17
Ryokan Insert something funny here Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 8,177	I love my Android tablet. I can put whatever I want on it, unlike the iPad. When I'm out travelling, I put movies, books and comics on micro sd cards to bring with me. Can't do that on the iPad.

16th December 2012, 09:53 AM	#18
SatansMaleVoiceChoir Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,300	Originally Posted by Ryokan I love my Android tablet. I can put whatever I want on it, unlike the iPad. When I'm out travelling, I put movies, books and comics on micro sd cards to bring with me. Can't do that on the iPad. Quite. I cant use a micro SD card - I just use iCloud to access any of my 20 feature films or 32 books or 1570 songs. I just keep some of the old favourites in local storage.
	__________________ The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. - Joseph Joubert Do not believe hastily. - Ovid There is no worse lie than a truth misunderstood by those who hear it. - William James

16th December 2012, 11:55 AM	#19
Captain_Swoop Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 3,909	I load stuff on and off my Ipad from an SD card. I use a camera/card adapter I got from ebay for £4.50 plug it in and away I go.

16th December 2012, 12:27 PM	#20
SatansMaleVoiceChoir Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,300	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop I load stuff on and off my Ipad from an SD card. I use a camera/card adapter I got from ebay for £4.50 plug it in and away I go. Wasn't aware you can do that! Like I say - I've never needed SD cards before anyway.
	__________________ The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. - Joseph Joubert Do not believe hastily. - Ovid There is no worse lie than a truth misunderstood by those who hear it. - William James

16th December 2012, 02:59 PM	#21
Bram Kaandorp Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Netherlands Posts: 2,240	Originally Posted by Checkmite Buying an Apple mobile device entitles you to free OS updates for the lifetime of the device. Didn't know that. Good policy.
	__________________ If autism is a "living death", does that make me a zombie? If so, that'd be great. Just don't get your brain in my general vicinity.

16th December 2012, 03:45 PM	#22
Ferguson Muse Join Date: May 2009 Location: Lansing, MI Posts: 830	Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp If you were to do a complete reinstall of all of your android devices, but with a new version, would you rather buy 5 (1-use) licenses, or 1 license (which you don't even have to pay for) that you can use for al 5 devices and more? Huh? Is it even possible to "buy" an android or iOS license?

16th December 2012, 05:35 PM	#23
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,000	Originally Posted by SatansMaleVoiceChoir Quite. I cant use a micro SD card - I just use iCloud to access any of my 20 feature films or 32 books or 1570 songs. I just keep some of the old favourites in local storage. Not when you don't have acess to the iCloud. Ever travel?

16th December 2012, 06:27 PM	#24
Giraffe107 Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 1,336	What I don't like about my iphone is I can't put whatever I want on it. For example I listen to podcasts- but you can only copy the five most recent podcasts onto your phone (not any 5 either, which would be ok, but only the 5 most recent). This is a problem because I listen at work or while out and about so I don't have access to my home network- I don't have mobile data on, and 3G is patchy at best where I live anyway. My husband and I both have iphones- I still can't get icloud to work on my phone. I've reverted it back to factory settings about 3 times, still doesn't work. It can't handle two accounts it seems, I have lost a few apps that I've bought on my phone and then can't backup for some reasons, so when I've had bugs/crashes I've lost them completely. As for getting free OS updates for life- the recent problems with the latest iOS don't make this all too appealing. About 50% of my friends with iphone 4/4s have lost all their contacts when they've upgraded to iOS6.
	__________________ Love is a snowmobile racing across the icy tundra that suddenly flips over, trapping you beneath. At night the ice weasels come. - Matt Groening

16th December 2012, 06:33 PM	#25
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Third in line Posts: 14,879	I'm able to download and keep any and as many episodes of any podcast that I want on my iPod, so long as there's disk space available. Any podcast episode you manually download will remain until you manually delete it, regardless of the auto download/delete settings.
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002

16th December 2012, 09:27 PM	#26
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,000	My Android OS was just upgraded to Jelly Bean for free.

17th December 2012, 12:52 AM	#27
SatansMaleVoiceChoir Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,300	Originally Posted by WildCat Not when you don't have acess to the iCloud. Ever travel? Frequently. I suppose it would be an issue if I was going caving, or exploring the wilderness and had a sudden need to watch 'Krull' on my iPad. Given that all the hotels or places I stay at all have wifi then I'm pretty much covered. If I can't get wifi, then it's 3G. If I can't get 3G then I'd rely on internal storage until I could. Not that this has happened yet.
	__________________ The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. - Joseph Joubert Do not believe hastily. - Ovid There is no worse lie than a truth misunderstood by those who hear it. - William James

17th December 2012, 01:02 AM	#28
SatansMaleVoiceChoir Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,300	Originally Posted by Giraffe107 What I don't like about my iphone is I can't put whatever I want on it. For example I listen to podcasts- but you can only copy the five most recent podcasts onto your phone (not any 5 either, which would be ok, but only the 5 most recent). This is a problem because I listen at work or while out and about so I don't have access to my home network- I don't have mobile data on, and 3G is patchy at best where I live anyway. I'm not sure what's happening there, but the only restriction on what you can store on your phone is storage space. Originally Posted by Giraffe107 My husband and I both have iphones- I still can't get icloud to work on my phone. I've reverted it back to factory settings about 3 times, still doesn't work. It can't handle two accounts it seems, I have lost a few apps that I've bought on my phone and then can't backup for some reasons, so when I've had bugs/crashes I've lost them completely. I'm not sure what you mean by "two accounts". Also "bugs/crashes"? Originally Posted by Giraffe107 As for getting free OS updates for life- the recent problems with the latest iOS don't make this all too appealing. About 50% of my friends with iphone 4/4s have lost all their contacts when they've upgraded to iOS6. I've never heard of problems like that when updating iOS. The biggest problem is usually the wait to get hold of it. From everything you describe above, I think you should just cut your losses and get a Nokia 3310...
	__________________ The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. - Joseph Joubert Do not believe hastily. - Ovid There is no worse lie than a truth misunderstood by those who hear it. - William James

17th December 2012, 01:11 AM	#29
OnlyTellsTruths Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 5,781	Here's my attempt at answering the last time the OP asked this exact same question. I literally can't believe no one has explained this yet in this thread: Originally Posted by OnlyTellsTruths Well it has nothing to do with Apple/Android at it's most basic level. You can see that in the thread about the Microsoft Surface tablet. The Surface with Win 8 RT is like Apple, you can only install what Microsoft approves into their App store. The Surface with Win 8 Pro will on the other hand have freedom. You can install the large back catalog of Windows programs without having to wait for it to be "ported". Which includes just an insane amount of awesome freeware that has been created over the past 20 years. Developers can also release their own software, from their own website, without getting Microsoft's permission and/or getting it into some app store. In other words, on Android you don't have to install stuff only from the Android store, you can install stuff from all over the web. AFAIK you would have to hack your iPhone to do that. And then me getting all philosophical about it when the OP asked for clarification: Originally Posted by OnlyTellsTruths It could be similar to real freedom. It is impossible to know what freedom is unless you have had freedom AND not have had it. I could use slavery as what I mean by not having freedom, or perhaps growing up in a totalitarian country the likes of which the world has never seen, but I will use prison. Not a cushy prison either. Absolute confinement. Only given what you need to stay alive. Period. Basically, if you have lived your life never having lost freedom, you have no idea what freedom is. If you lived your life never having freedom, you also have no idea what freedom is. You have to have either A: Lived a life of freedom and then lost it. Or B: Live a life without freedom and then gained it. To know what freedom is. There is no being told about it. There is no reading about it in a book. You would not truly know what freedom is by just learning about it. Now obviously, it is a bit of a stretch to use real freedom in an analogy being used to compare tablet computers. But it might be the same time of thing. In other words, you would have no idea how much more awesome the Surface running Win 8 Pro is compared to the Surface running Win 8 RT unless you spend time using both. Personally, I would take more freedom over more security any day. Same time next month?
OnlyTellsTruths Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 5,781	__________________ ________________________

17th December 2012, 01:26 AM	#30
SatansMaleVoiceChoir Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,300	Originally Posted by OnlyTellsTruths Here's my attempt at answering the last time the OP asked this exact same question. Yes, but your answer was rubbish, and I thought I'd open it to the floor. Originally Posted by OnlyTellsTruths In other words, on Android you don't have to install stuff only from the Android store, you can install stuff from all over the web. AFAIK you would have to hack your iPhone to do that. Ah, well actually you make a fair point there. I'm sure many Apple users have sat staring forlornly at their device thinking "I really wish I could download stuff from the net. I simply haven't got enough stuff on my phone." I enjoy using my iPhone 5, but it is seriously lacking in stuff - it's got all the apps, music, films and podcasts on it, or available to it, that I could possibly want, but it is just missing that vital ingredient - 'stuff'. Um... What sort of 'stuff' am I missing out on by the way? ETA: Forgot to mention, if by 'stuff' you're including web videos, then I can actually do that - there's an App for it. I forgot because it's something I don't do with any regularity. ETA: Or, when you say 'stuff', do you mean 'pictures, photo's and GIFs', because I can do that as well. Originally Posted by OnlyTellsTruths And then me getting all philosophical about it when the OP asked for clarification: Personally, I would take more freedom over more security any day. Same time next month? That's lovely. So what am I missing out on again? I know I'm not free to get viruses or malware, but I don't think I'm actually missing anything.
	__________________ The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. - Joseph Joubert Do not believe hastily. - Ovid There is no worse lie than a truth misunderstood by those who hear it. - William James Last edited by SatansMaleVoiceChoir; 17th December 2012 at 01:35 AM.

17th December 2012, 02:13 AM	#31
Captain_Swoop Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 3,909	When they say 'stuff' they mean Porn!

17th December 2012, 02:22 AM	#32
SatansMaleVoiceChoir Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,300	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop When they say 'stuff' they mean Porn! Ah! Trust me - I'm not missing out on that by owning an Apple product!
	__________________ The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. - Joseph Joubert Do not believe hastily. - Ovid There is no worse lie than a truth misunderstood by those who hear it. - William James

17th December 2012, 04:37 AM	#35
Bram Kaandorp Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Netherlands Posts: 2,240	Originally Posted by Ferguson Huh? Is it even possible to "buy" an android or iOS license? If you buy an Apple product, that includes a license to have Mac installed. It's the standard way of doing things in proprietary software. That's one of the differences between it and free/open source software.
	__________________ If autism is a "living death", does that make me a zombie? If so, that'd be great. Just don't get your brain in my general vicinity.

17th December 2012, 04:51 AM	#36
SatansMaleVoiceChoir Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,300	Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp If you buy an Apple product, that includes a license to have Mac installed. It's the standard way of doing things in proprietary software. That's one of the differences between it and free/open source software. So what are we saying here? If I bought a device running an Android OS, this entitles me to download it onto any other device, like a Windows phone, or an iPhone?
	__________________ The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. - Joseph Joubert Do not believe hastily. - Ovid There is no worse lie than a truth misunderstood by those who hear it. - William James

17th December 2012, 05:24 AM	#37
Alan Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 3,651	That keyboard wasn't for you, but it is a perfect example of the customisability of Android. As with the others. And voice control is a feature on Android as well. And a complaint about a couple of dollars in a criticism of Android and a boast about iOS is strange.