Decapitation-the answer

prettygirlsmakegrave · 14th March 2003, 04:24 PM

I have decided that we could discover all the answers if we were only to decapitate people and see what they said after their head was removed. The idea is simple, everyone is placed on earth with knowledge and we just have to uncover it. So after the head is removed they move their lips in order to speak, however no sound is heard because the vocal chords are still with the body. So all we have to do it video tape a lot of people being decapitated and read their lips.

Beleth · 14th March 2003, 04:43 PM

We could start with this guy.

WARNING: The topic is decapitation. The Web site I referenced has photos. But at least they're not on the first screenful.

Julia · 14th March 2003, 04:43 PM

What???

billydkid · 14th March 2003, 06:00 PM

Tell me if I have this right - you cut someone's head head off so they are dead (or as good as) and then we read their lips to discover what they have found on the other side? Is that the idea? Wow, cool idea! They'll be lining up for that. "let me go first!!!" "No, me! I want to go first!" It's interesting, they did all sorts of interesting things with severed head during the french revolution. I'm sure they did some lip reading back then.

billydkid · 14th March 2003, 06:02 PM

have to learn to proof read before posting. Obviously I only meant one head.

14th March 2003, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by billydkid
have to learn to proof read before posting. Obviously I only meant one head.

I never noticed you had put "head" twice. This is not however surprising. Explicable in terms of the psychology of perception you see.

By the way, we have people who have undergone appropriately deep "near death experiences" to tell us what resides "on the other side". People who can still move their lips are not dead.

Cecil · 14th March 2003, 06:31 PM

WARNING: Remember that the topic is decapitation and this is a movie file. Don't look at this unless you have a strong stomach.

movies.ogrish.com/chechclear.asf (You'll have to copy/paste it into the address bar)

14th March 2003, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cecil
WARNING: Remember that the topic is decapitation and this is a movie file. Don't look at this unless you have a strong stomach.

movies.ogrish.com/chechclear.asf (You'll have to copy/paste it into the address bar)

Nope I don't have a strong stomach. So I won't bother.

shemp · 15th March 2003, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by billydkid
have to learn to proof read before posting. Obviously I only meant one head.

Everyone knows two heads are better than one.

rustypouch · 15th March 2003, 05:30 PM

There have been these types of experiments done before: http://www.dolphin.soton.ac.uk/Feb2003/expert.html

15th March 2003, 07:12 PM

Why not just go to the airport, and ask people at the check-in counter:

"Have you ever been to (destination) before?"

When they answer "No.", ask them what it's like there.

It's just the whole NDE thing with an extra macabre little twist.

"What's it like being dead?"
(Mouths: "I'm decapitated, not deaf.")
"What's it like being dead?"
(Mouths: "I'm not dead, yet.")
"What's it like being dead?"
"What's it like being dead?"
"What's it like being dead?"
"Oh darn. He appears to be dead."

15th March 2003, 07:40 PM

didn'ta ya hear about the guy in africa that cut off his head to
impress the chicks?

Scott

Underemployed · 16th March 2003, 12:16 AM

From the New Scientist:

"A particularly detailed report comes from Dr Beaurieux who, under perfect circumstances, experimented with the head of the murderer Languille, guillotined at 5.30 am on 28 June, 1905. (From A History of the Guillotine by Alister Kershaw. His source is Archives d'Anthropologie Criminelle, 1905):

"Here, then, is what I was able to note immediately after the decapitation: the eyelids and lips of the guillotined man worked in irregularly rhythmic contractions for about five or six seconds . . . I waited for several seconds. The spasmodic movements ceased. The face relaxed, the lids half closed on the eyeballs, leaving only the white of the conjunctiva visible, exactly as in the dying whom we have occasion to see every day in the exercise of our profession, or as in those just dead. It was then that I called in a strong, sharp voice: 'Languille!' I saw the eyelids slowly lift up, without any spasmodic contractions . . . Next Languille's eyes very definitely fixed themselves on mine and the pupils focused themselves . . . After several seconds, the eyelids closed again, slowly and evenly, and the head took on the same appearance as it had had before I called out.

"It was at that point that I called out again and, once more, without any spasm, slowly, the eyelids lifted and undeniably living eyes fixed themselves on mine with perhaps even more penetration than the first time. Then there was a further closing of the eyelids, but now less complete. I attempted the effect of a third call; there was no further movement and the eyes took on the glazed look which they have in the dead.

"I have just recounted to you with rigorous exactness what I was able to observe. The whole thing had lasted twenty-five to thirty seconds."

For further details see www.metaphor.dk/guillotine"

And there you have it.

kourama · 17th March 2003, 08:59 AM

What if the person is deaf an communicates using sign language? Would we chop them off at the breast?

This thread is icky.

c4ts · 19th March 2003, 09:07 AM

How is someone supposed to be able to move their lips with a severed spine? Whatever movement there is is probably caused by automatic relaxation of the jaw muscles.

Akots · 19th March 2003, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by c4ts
How is someone supposed to be able to move their lips with a severed spine? Whatever movement there is is probably caused by automatic relaxation of the jaw muscles.

Are jaw muscles connected to the part of the nervous system above or below the spine? If that section of the spine is above the neck, you'd be okay for chattin'. Anything on hte portion of the spine stil conencted to thebrain would work fine, right?

Well, y'know, except for all the bleeding and massive physical trauma and all.

c4ts · 19th March 2003, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Akots

Are jaw muscles connected to the part of the nervous system above or below the spine? If that section of the spine is above the neck, you'd be okay for chattin'. Anything on hte portion of the spine stil conencted to thebrain would work fine, right?

Well, y'know, except for all the bleeding and massive physical trauma and all.

I thought that it worked like the nervous system, where nerve signals on parts covering the head traveled all the way down the spine and then back up. At least this can be said to be true for tongue movement, because the whole tongue extends beyond the head (not just the part you taste with), and would be severed if you cut the neck off.

prettygirlsmakegrave · 19th March 2003, 12:28 PM

well then what is instead of decapitation, the people where killed some other way so that the death took about 10 minutes and the persons spinal cord could still function as such

Akots · 19th March 2003, 12:33 PM

Well, that's the thing... it doesn't matter if your killed instantly or slowly; your alive... your alive... your alive... your dead.

To quote Will Wright, "...he looked at me and said 'no, I mean they arent going to die of natural causes.' I said 'they're going to get hit by a train; naturally, they're going to die.'"

c4ts · 19th March 2003, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by prettygirlsmakegrave
well then what is instead of decapitation, the people where killed some other way so that the death took about 10 minutes and the persons spinal cord could still function as such

Lethal injection, maybe?

Doctor X · 19th March 2003, 04:03 PM

Sorry . . . heard this was a thread to get head. . . .

[Right, stop that!!--Ed.]

--J.D.

Kimpatsu · 19th March 2003, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shemp
Everyone knows two heads are better than one.

Well, my girlfriend and I both like head...

Kimpatsu · 19th March 2003, 05:38 PM

Decapitation? It's the only way to get a head in life.

Kimpatsu · 19th March 2003, 05:44 PM

Heads I win, tails you lose...

prettygirlsmakegrave · 19th March 2003, 06:08 PM

i dont really know what lethal injection would accomplish except a drug induced stupur (sp?). and i sincerely doubt that a guy on an extreme drug high or low would hold the answers to the universe!

kittynh · 19th March 2003, 06:15 PM

OK, it doesn't work. Massive blood loss, shock. Sure the lips move. when you cut the head off a chicken it'll run around the yard a bit too. It's amusing, but makes a mess.

19th March 2003, 09:18 PM

You still have the problem of: "If they can answer, they're NOT dead!"

I recommend that regardless of method of death, they're alive, dying, or dead.

The act of dying is not equivalent to being dead, any more than the simple daily act of getting dressed is equivalent to having your arm torn off by an enraged gorilla.

Kimpatsu · 19th March 2003, 11:24 PM

I think the problem we have here is that participants are using two different definitions of death: brain death and heart death. If the heart has stopped beating, many people assume death, but in the case of the decapitated head, brain death may not occur for two or three minutes, until hypoxia sets in, so although the heart has stopped and the body has stopped twitching, the mind is still active (though not for long). What Evil Dave is proposing is brain death, in that once the brain has died, no intentional lip movements can possibly take place.
Best,

Questioninggeller · 20th March 2003, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by prettygirlsmakegrave
we could discover all the answers

?????????What, please explain.

kittynh · 21st March 2003, 04:54 PM

There is a film of a French decapitation. It was secretly filmed, and it really quite interesting. the head comes off, the body rolls into the coffin. quite fast and neat.

prettygirlsmakegrave · 21st March 2003, 05:41 PM

kitty, where did you find that?

kittynh · 21st March 2003, 06:24 PM

well, I saw it at the National Archives in DC, but I've been told it has even been shown on tv (it isn't a close up). It was filmed in black and white, from an upper story window looking down on the execution. As soon as the head left the body it rolled right into a waiting coffin, the platform the body was on tilted. Should be able to find it on a google search.

14th March 2003, 04:24 PM	#1
prettygirlsmakegrave Scholar Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 50	Decapitation-the answer I have decided that we could discover all the answers if we were only to decapitate people and see what they said after their head was removed. The idea is simple, everyone is placed on earth with knowledge and we just have to uncover it. So after the head is removed they move their lips in order to speak, however no sound is heard because the vocal chords are still with the body. So all we have to do it video tape a lot of people being decapitated and read their lips.

14th March 2003, 04:43 PM	#2
Beleth FAQ Creator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Not in a cave Posts: 4,134	We could start with this guy. WARNING: The topic is decapitation. The Web site I referenced has photos. But at least they're not on the first screenful.
	__________________ Administrator and Head Moderator, The Skeptic's Guide to the Universe Forum Big Fan, Stop Sylvia Browne I will come back only after the words "Hi, Nyarl!" are returned to the post http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php...5&postcount=14 .

14th March 2003, 04:43 PM	#3
Julia Muse Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 519	What???
Julia Muse Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 519	__________________ Julia

14th March 2003, 06:00 PM	#4
billydkid Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Blanchester, OH Posts: 4,930	Wow! I think I understand! Tell me if I have this right - you cut someone's head head off so they are dead (or as good as) and then we read their lips to discover what they have found on the other side? Is that the idea? Wow, cool idea! They'll be lining up for that. "let me go first!!!" "No, me! I want to go first!" It's interesting, they did all sorts of interesting things with severed head during the french revolution. I'm sure they did some lip reading back then.

14th March 2003, 06:02 PM	#5
billydkid Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Blanchester, OH Posts: 4,930	"head" not "head head" have to learn to proof read before posting. Obviously I only meant one head.

14th March 2003, 06:17 PM	#6
Interesting Ian Guest Posts: n/a	Re: "head" not "head head" Quote: Originally posted by billydkid have to learn to proof read before posting. Obviously I only meant one head. I never noticed you had put "head" twice. This is not however surprising. Explicable in terms of the psychology of perception you see. By the way, we have people who have undergone appropriately deep "near death experiences" to tell us what resides "on the other side". People who can still move their lips are not dead.
Interesting Ian Guest Posts: n/a

14th March 2003, 06:31 PM	#7
Cecil Muse Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Vancouver Posts: 991	WARNING: Remember that the topic is decapitation and this is a movie file. Don't look at this unless you have a strong stomach. movies.ogrish.com/chechclear.asf (You'll have to copy/paste it into the address bar)
	__________________ "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." --Albert Einstein "The common man marvels at the uncommon; the wise man marvels at the commonplace." --Confucious "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." --Bertrand Russell

14th March 2003, 06:32 PM	#8
Interesting Ian Guest Posts: n/a	Quote: Originally posted by Cecil WARNING: Remember that the topic is decapitation and this is a movie file. Don't look at this unless you have a strong stomach. movies.ogrish.com/chechclear.asf (You'll have to copy/paste it into the address bar) Nope I don't have a strong stomach. So I won't bother.
Interesting Ian Guest Posts: n/a

15th March 2003, 06:37 AM	#9
shemp Timothy, Timothy, where on earth did you go? Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: trapped in a cave-in with Joe Posts: 12,884	Re: "head" not "head head" Quote: Originally posted by billydkid have to learn to proof read before posting. Obviously I only meant one head. Everyone knows two heads are better than one.
	__________________ Church on Sunday, sleep and nod Tryin' to duck the wrath of God Preacher's fillin' us with fright Tryin' to tell us what he thinks is right He really got to be some kind of nut (I can't use it!) Tryin' to make it real - compared to what?

15th March 2003, 05:30 PM	#10
rustypouch Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Belfort Posts: 5,113	There have been these types of experiments done before: http://www.dolphin.soton.ac.uk/Feb2003/expert.html

15th March 2003, 07:12 PM	#11
evildave Guest Posts: n/a	Why not just go to the airport, and ask people at the check-in counter: "Have you ever been to (destination) before?" When they answer "No.", ask them what it's like there. It's just the whole NDE thing with an extra macabre little twist. "What's it like being dead?" (Mouths: "I'm decapitated, not deaf.") "What's it like being dead?" (Mouths: "I'm not dead, yet.") "What's it like being dead?" "What's it like being dead?" "What's it like being dead?" "Oh darn. He appears to be dead."
evildave Guest Posts: n/a

15th March 2003, 07:40 PM	#12
ScottDYelich Guest Posts: n/a	impress chicks didn'ta ya hear about the guy in africa that cut off his head to impress the chicks? Scott
ScottDYelich Guest Posts: n/a

16th March 2003, 12:16 AM	#13
Underemployed Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 764	From the New Scientist: "A particularly detailed report comes from Dr Beaurieux who, under perfect circumstances, experimented with the head of the murderer Languille, guillotined at 5.30 am on 28 June, 1905. (From A History of the Guillotine by Alister Kershaw. His source is Archives d'Anthropologie Criminelle, 1905): "Here, then, is what I was able to note immediately after the decapitation: the eyelids and lips of the guillotined man worked in irregularly rhythmic contractions for about five or six seconds . . . I waited for several seconds. The spasmodic movements ceased. The face relaxed, the lids half closed on the eyeballs, leaving only the white of the conjunctiva visible, exactly as in the dying whom we have occasion to see every day in the exercise of our profession, or as in those just dead. It was then that I called in a strong, sharp voice: 'Languille!' I saw the eyelids slowly lift up, without any spasmodic contractions . . . Next Languille's eyes very definitely fixed themselves on mine and the pupils focused themselves . . . After several seconds, the eyelids closed again, slowly and evenly, and the head took on the same appearance as it had had before I called out. "It was at that point that I called out again and, once more, without any spasm, slowly, the eyelids lifted and undeniably living eyes fixed themselves on mine with perhaps even more penetration than the first time. Then there was a further closing of the eyelids, but now less complete. I attempted the effect of a third call; there was no further movement and the eyes took on the glazed look which they have in the dead. "I have just recounted to you with rigorous exactness what I was able to observe. The whole thing had lasted twenty-five to thirty seconds." For further details see www.metaphor.dk/guillotine" And there you have it.
Underemployed Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 764	__________________ There is no punchy, conclusive final sentence for this post.

17th March 2003, 08:59 AM	#14
kourama Thinker Join Date: May 2002 Location: canada Posts: 216	What if the person is deaf an communicates using sign language? Would we chop them off at the breast? This thread is icky.
	__________________ Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you. --Pericles (430 B.C.)

19th March 2003, 09:07 AM	#15
c4ts Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Your base Posts: 8,427	How is someone supposed to be able to move their lips with a severed spine? Whatever movement there is is probably caused by automatic relaxation of the jaw muscles.
	__________________ Ha ha ha ha.... Stupid signature size limit.

19th March 2003, 09:12 AM	#16
Akots Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 494	Quote: Originally posted by c4ts How is someone supposed to be able to move their lips with a severed spine? Whatever movement there is is probably caused by automatic relaxation of the jaw muscles. Are jaw muscles connected to the part of the nervous system above or below the spine? If that section of the spine is above the neck, you'd be okay for chattin'. Anything on hte portion of the spine stil conencted to thebrain would work fine, right? Well, y'know, except for all the bleeding and massive physical trauma and all.
Akots Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 494	__________________ I can't drink POSSIBLE beers! I need ACTUAL beers! Damn you, quantum mechanics!

19th March 2003, 09:23 AM	#17
c4ts Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Your base Posts: 8,427	Quote: Originally posted by Akots Are jaw muscles connected to the part of the nervous system above or below the spine? If that section of the spine is above the neck, you'd be okay for chattin'. Anything on hte portion of the spine stil conencted to thebrain would work fine, right? Well, y'know, except for all the bleeding and massive physical trauma and all. I thought that it worked like the nervous system, where nerve signals on parts covering the head traveled all the way down the spine and then back up. At least this can be said to be true for tongue movement, because the whole tongue extends beyond the head (not just the part you taste with), and would be severed if you cut the neck off.
	__________________ Ha ha ha ha.... Stupid signature size limit.

19th March 2003, 12:28 PM	#18
prettygirlsmakegrave Scholar Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 50	well then what is instead of decapitation, the people where killed some other way so that the death took about 10 minutes and the persons spinal cord could still function as such
	__________________ "Then there is the girl who wants to be femme but is scared of lipstick"

19th March 2003, 12:33 PM	#19
Akots Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 494	Well, that's the thing... it doesn't matter if your killed instantly or slowly; your alive... your alive... your alive... your dead. To quote Will Wright, "...he looked at me and said 'no, I mean they arent going to die of natural causes.' I said 'they're going to get hit by a train; naturally, they're going to die.'"
Akots Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 494	__________________ I can't drink POSSIBLE beers! I need ACTUAL beers! Damn you, quantum mechanics!

19th March 2003, 03:30 PM	#20
c4ts Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Your base Posts: 8,427	Quote: Originally posted by prettygirlsmakegrave well then what is instead of decapitation, the people where killed some other way so that the death took about 10 minutes and the persons spinal cord could still function as such Lethal injection, maybe?
	__________________ Ha ha ha ha.... Stupid signature size limit.

19th March 2003, 04:03 PM	#21
Doctor X Suspended Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 1,470	Sorry . . . heard this was a thread to get head. . . . [Right, stop that!!--Ed.] --J.D.
Doctor X Suspended Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 1,470

19th March 2003, 05:36 PM	#22
Kimpatsu Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Tokyo Posts: 3,145	Re: Re: "head" not "head head" Quote: Originally posted by shemp Everyone knows two heads are better than one. Well, my girlfriend and I both like head...
	__________________ Tony Kehoe "Most people, I believe, think that you need a God to explain the existence of the world, and especially the existence of life. They are wrong, but our education system is such that many people don't know it. "--Richard Dawkins

19th March 2003, 05:38 PM	#23
Kimpatsu Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Tokyo Posts: 3,145	Decapitation? It's the only way to get a head in life.
	__________________ Tony Kehoe "Most people, I believe, think that you need a God to explain the existence of the world, and especially the existence of life. They are wrong, but our education system is such that many people don't know it. "--Richard Dawkins

19th March 2003, 05:44 PM	#24
Kimpatsu Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Tokyo Posts: 3,145	Heads I win, tails you lose...
	__________________ Tony Kehoe "Most people, I believe, think that you need a God to explain the existence of the world, and especially the existence of life. They are wrong, but our education system is such that many people don't know it. "--Richard Dawkins

19th March 2003, 06:08 PM	#25
prettygirlsmakegrave Scholar Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 50	i dont really know what lethal injection would accomplish except a drug induced stupur (sp?). and i sincerely doubt that a guy on an extreme drug high or low would hold the answers to the universe!
	__________________ "Then there is the girl who wants to be femme but is scared of lipstick"

19th March 2003, 06:15 PM	#26
kittynh The Hupsu Detective auctioneer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: If I told the aliens could find me, and you know they read this forum Posts: 22,705	it doesn't work OK, it doesn't work. Massive blood loss, shock. Sure the lips move. when you cut the head off a chicken it'll run around the yard a bit too. It's amusing, but makes a mess.
	__________________ WWW.BADALIEN.ORG - not all the buttons work yet, and the science content is coming...but it's ALIVE!

19th March 2003, 09:18 PM	#27
evildave Guest Posts: n/a	You still have the problem of: "If they can answer, they're NOT dead!" I recommend that regardless of method of death, they're alive, dying, or dead. The act of dying is not equivalent to being dead, any more than the simple daily act of getting dressed is equivalent to having your arm torn off by an enraged gorilla.
evildave Guest Posts: n/a

19th March 2003, 11:24 PM	#28
Kimpatsu Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Tokyo Posts: 3,145	I think the problem we have here is that participants are using two different definitions of death: brain death and heart death. If the heart has stopped beating, many people assume death, but in the case of the decapitated head, brain death may not occur for two or three minutes, until hypoxia sets in, so although the heart has stopped and the body has stopped twitching, the mind is still active (though not for long). What Evil Dave is proposing is brain death, in that once the brain has died, no intentional lip movements can possibly take place. Best,
	__________________ Tony Kehoe "Most people, I believe, think that you need a God to explain the existence of the world, and especially the existence of life. They are wrong, but our education system is such that many people don't know it. "--Richard Dawkins

20th March 2003, 10:03 PM	#29
Questioninggeller Illuminator Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 3,030	Re: Decapitation-the answer Quote: Originally posted by prettygirlsmakegrave we could discover all the answers ?????????What, please explain.

21st March 2003, 04:54 PM	#30
kittynh The Hupsu Detective auctioneer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: If I told the aliens could find me, and you know they read this forum Posts: 22,705	how the French did it There is a film of a French decapitation. It was secretly filmed, and it really quite interesting. the head comes off, the body rolls into the coffin. quite fast and neat.
	__________________ WWW.BADALIEN.ORG - not all the buttons work yet, and the science content is coming...but it's ALIVE!

21st March 2003, 05:41 PM	#31
prettygirlsmakegrave Scholar Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 50	kitty, where did you find that?
	__________________ "Then there is the girl who wants to be femme but is scared of lipstick"

21st March 2003, 06:24 PM	#32
kittynh The Hupsu Detective auctioneer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: If I told the aliens could find me, and you know they read this forum Posts: 22,705	see film well, I saw it at the National Archives in DC, but I've been told it has even been shown on tv (it isn't a close up). It was filmed in black and white, from an upper story window looking down on the execution. As soon as the head left the body it rolled right into a waiting coffin, the platform the body was on tilted. Should be able to find it on a google search.
	__________________ WWW.BADALIEN.ORG - not all the buttons work yet, and the science content is coming...but it's ALIVE!