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Old 25th December 2012, 05:42 PM   #41
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Naah, it's not a joke, it's the same old "Amerikkka, love it or leave it, or we'll throw you out the door at 20,000 feet" routine we've seen over and over lately.

Morgan isn't the best journalist in town, but "throw him out of the country" is both unconstitutional and verging on threatening retaliation for political speech. Come to think of it, that's really "in" right now, they might try it.
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Old 25th December 2012, 05:49 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Well, maybe I worded it badly, but the point I meant was that there is no explicit right to free speech. Rather the First Amendment merely forbade Congress from infringing it and later the Supreme Court argued that the Fourteenth Amendment made it applicable to all lawmaking bodies at state level, superseding the original restriction which was only at a federal level. This "incorporation doctrine" has been assumed to follow from this bit in the 14th:



I guess that if we assume Piers Morgan is a person,
then he would get equal protection to a citizen.
That's a pretty big assumption to make.
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Old 25th December 2012, 05:56 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
I find 60000 a lot , true it is only 1 out of 5000 american... But that is stilla lot.
60,000 makes me think even if it started as a joke it ceased to be that 59,000+ signatures ago.
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Old 25th December 2012, 06:38 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Well, maybe I worded it badly, but the point I meant was that there is no explicit right to free speech. Rather the First Amendment merely forbade Congress from infringing it and later the Supreme Court argued that the Fourteenth Amendment made it applicable to all lawmaking bodies at state level, superseding the original restriction which was only at a federal level. This "incorporation doctrine" has been assumed to follow from this bit in the 14th:
And?

Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I guess that if we assume Piers Morgan is a person, then he would get equal protection to a citizen.
Nope, not when it comes to certain things and certainly not wrt deportation. He could be deported, for example, merely for getting busted with a small amount of cocaine. This page has the relevant law: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1227

I'm assuming he's not a US citizen, I'm not certain that's the case.

Last edited by WildCat; 25th December 2012 at 06:40 PM.
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Old 25th December 2012, 06:41 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
60,000 makes me think even if it started as a joke it ceased to be that 59,000+ signatures ago.
Judging by the responses in this thread I think your threshold should be somewhere north of 120 million.
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Old 25th December 2012, 06:41 PM   #46
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Old 25th December 2012, 06:42 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
Judging by the responses in this thread I think your threshold should be somewhere north of 120 million.
I've no idea what that means. Sorry.
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Old 25th December 2012, 07:16 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
And?


Nope, not when it comes to certain things and certainly not wrt deportation. He could be deported, for example, merely for getting busted with a small amount of cocaine. This page has the relevant law: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1227

I'm assuming he's not a US citizen, I'm not certain that's the case.
No, I meant equal protection in terms of free speech etc...
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Old 25th December 2012, 07:16 PM   #49
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People are saying he is ignorant based on that interview.

What did he get wrong? I watched that interview and while I think Piers Morgan is a bit too soft on the gun lobby I didn't see him get anything wrong.

I'm just curious.
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Old 25th December 2012, 08:16 PM   #50
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Shouldn't we get Piers Morgan deported just for being Piers Morgan?
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Old 25th December 2012, 08:34 PM   #51
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My take on this is that the petition was drawn up and supported by far right wing gun nuts who possess a level of ignorance of the Constitution that is so shocking that debating them is a waste of time.

What did Morgan say during the debate that was inaccurate? He was right, I agreed with all the points he made, and for speaking out, the gun nuts are going crazy.

Many of the far right gun nuts are also Christian fundamentalists, and their ignorance of the Constitution oddly reflects the same rigidity and ignorance they have about the Bible. Their reaction of critisism is the same; threats of violence and utter stupidity.
Piers Morgan is normally a tool, but this time he was right
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Old 25th December 2012, 08:40 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Titanic Explorer View Post
My take on this is that the petition was drawn up and supported by far right wing gun nuts who possess a level of ignorance of the Constitution that is so shocking that debating them is a waste of time.

What did Morgan say during the debate that was inaccurate? He was right, I agreed with all the points he made, and for speaking out, the gun nuts are going crazy.

Many of the far right gun nuts are also Christian fundamentalists, and their ignorance of the Constitution oddly reflects the same rigidity and ignorance they have about the Bible. Their reaction of critisism is the same; threats of violence and utter stupidity.
Piers Morgan is normally a tool, but this time he was right
A fact often forgotten by folks on the right.
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Old 25th December 2012, 08:41 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
I've no idea what that means. Sorry.
Lots of people in this thread joking about either deporting him from here or preventing him from returning to the UK. Extrapolate that to 300 million.

Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
No, I meant equal protection in terms of free speech etc...
Of course.
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Old 25th December 2012, 08:42 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
Lots of people in this thread joking about either deporting him from here or preventing him from returning to the UK. Extrapolate that to 300 million.
Okay.
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Old 25th December 2012, 09:02 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Alareth View Post
The White House petition site while started with noble intent, has devolved into just another canvas for budding internet comedians to ply their craft just like craigslist and Amazon product reviews.
Spot on. Witness those 50 petitions to withdraw from the USA. It's a good idea in theory. In practice, not so much.
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Old 27th December 2012, 11:00 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Why call them bigots - the hypocrite label I can understand but not the bigot label. I am sure some of them are bigots but this reaction seems to be based on something he has actually said/done and his personal characteristics so not really how we usually use the label bigot?
The irony is that calling that pig Pratt a stupid person was totally spot on. Wayne La Pierre seems progressive and rational by comparison.
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Old 28th December 2012, 06:00 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by jj View Post
Naah, it's not a joke,
A petition to deport Piers Morgan because of his role on America's Got Talent is a joke. This is not.
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Old 28th December 2012, 07:00 AM   #58
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Old 28th December 2012, 07:21 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Titanic Explorer View Post
My take on this is that the petition was drawn up and supported by far right wing gun nuts who possess a level of ignorance of the Constitution that is so shocking that debating them is a waste of time.

What did Morgan say during the debate that was inaccurate? He was right, I agreed with all the points he made, and for speaking out, the gun nuts are going crazy.

Many of the far right gun nuts are also Christian fundamentalists, and their ignorance of the Constitution oddly reflects the same rigidity and ignorance they have about the Bible. Their reaction of critisism is the same; threats of violence and utter stupidity.
Piers Morgan is normally a tool, but this time he was right

Spot-on.

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Old 28th December 2012, 12:37 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by jerrywayne View Post
Morgan replaced Larry King on CNN as an interviewer of celebs. I personally think he is the best interviewer of such that I have heard in a long time. Don't know about his other endeavors.

The gun people here are paranoid and angry and unbending and their lobby, the NRA, is borderline treasonous (fantasist dreaming of armed rebellion against "repressive" U.S. government.)

Should the White House shut down its public petition initiative? Well, the Enraged Right, with its list of imagined grievances, has hi-jacked the petition initiative with stupid statement-making, such as the petition to deport Morgan or the one to (name the state) secede from the United States.
When you say "here", are you referring to the forum or the US in general? Because not a lot of the gun people on the forum are big fans of the NRA.
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Old 28th December 2012, 12:48 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Fixed that for you.

And please, please Americans your 1st amendment most be upheld, you must not allow him to be deported for expressing his opinion, that would be a terrible stain on America's reputation and a win for Them!!!
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Old 28th December 2012, 12:49 PM   #62
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Regardless of what people in the UK feel about his journalism, the very fact that Piers Morgan is willing to ever ask an interviewee a question they didn't want to be asked makes his above average in the US.
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Old 28th December 2012, 02:31 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
Lots of people in this thread joking about either deporting him from here or preventing him from returning to the UK. Extrapolate that to 300 million.
I'm sure that a similar petition to run the Rushblob out of the country would garner as many signitures, and probably several countries warning that it would be causus belli to drive him to their jurisdiction.
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Old 28th December 2012, 02:38 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
When you say "here", are you referring to the forum or the US in general? Because not a lot of the gun people on the forum are big fans of the NRA.
Larry Pratt, of course, is head of a rival group who think the NRA is too liberal. SPLA suggests that there may be ties between GOA and white nationalist groups.

Cenk Uyger and Pratt got into it over the Martin murder. (Pratt thinks Z should never have been arrested or charged.) Cenk reached the same conclusion as Piers regarding Pratt's mental status.

I probably have more firearms than Pratt has ever had coherent thoughts.
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Old 28th December 2012, 02:45 PM   #65
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What is it that people don't get about the importance of free speech? Seriously. It's not because it's a nice thing to do. It's not that freedoms are nice things to have. It's important because a national discussion and debate are crucial to democracy.

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Piers didn't attack a private citizen. He didn't make racialy disparaging remarks. He didn't slander anyone. He expressed an opinion. That's a good thing even if you disagree with it.

There's nothing wrong with being offended or outraged by what other people say. Good. We should be offended and outraged from time to time. But that is not a good reason to act on our censorial instinct. It's a reason to speak up and speak out to challenge the opinion.

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Old 6th January 2013, 08:42 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
What is it that people don't get about the importance of free speech? Seriously. It's not because it's a nice thing to do. It's not that freedoms are nice things to have. It's important because a national discussion and debate are crucial to democracy.

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it
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Piers didn't attack a private citizen. He didn't make racialy disparaging remarks. He didn't slander anyone. He expressed an opinion. That's a good thing even if you disagree with it.

There's nothing wrong with being offended or outraged by what other people say. Good. We should be offended and outraged from time to time. But that is not a good reason to act on our censorial instinct. It's a reason to speak up and speak out to challenge the opinion.

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Well said Sir. Just a shame that Piers was right for once
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Old 7th January 2013, 08:43 PM   #67
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I have no idea if the government can legally deport a foreign national for making outrageous statements, but it sure as hell doesn't fit in the spirit of the Constitution.
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Old 7th January 2013, 11:46 PM   #68
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Anti-gun nut Piers "Maoist" Morgan has a discussion with sober analyst and level-headed firearm advocate Alex Jones:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013...an-gun-control

Ooh, seems the whole thing is here:

Part 1

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Part 2

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Last edited by angrysoba; 7th January 2013 at 11:48 PM.
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Old 8th January 2013, 06:05 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Anti-gun nut Piers "Maoist" Morgan has a discussion with sober analyst and level-headed firearm advocate Alex Jones:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013...an-gun-control

Ooh, seems the whole thing is here:

Part 1

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I AGREE


Part 2

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I AGREE
Just watched this on my lunch break. Hilarious. If you still need to hate on Piers (who comes off well by comparison, almost unsuprisingly) then this article does it well: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ti...or-gun-owners/

I have watched a fair few bits of Alex Jones on youtube, and was wondering - it seems to me he is getting more and more aggressive and unhinged, or am I just imagining it? It wouldn't surprise me if he has some sort of breakdown and possibly hurts people....
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Old 8th January 2013, 06:45 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by DreadNiK View Post
Just watched this on my lunch break. Hilarious. If you still need to hate on Piers (who comes off well by comparison, almost unsuprisingly) then this article does it well: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ti...or-gun-owners/

I have watched a fair few bits of Alex Jones on youtube, and was wondering - it seems to me he is getting more and more aggressive and unhinged, or am I just imagining it? It wouldn't surprise me if he has some sort of breakdown and possibly hurts people....
I caught a bit of that while channel-surfing last night and was wondering the same thing initially. However, I suspect it's the necessity of having to amp his act just to maintain his cadre of wooish followers. I suspect while they're in commercial breaks, he's actually semi-human. However, I reserve the right to be wrong.

Fitz
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Old 8th January 2013, 11:57 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by fitzgibbon View Post
I caught a bit of that while channel-surfing last night and was wondering the same thing initially. However, I suspect it's the necessity of having to amp his act just to maintain his cadre of wooish followers. I suspect while they're in commercial breaks, he's actually semi-human. However, I reserve the right to be wrong.

Fitz
good reserving:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/alex-jon...ducer-cry.html

unless he is flat out lying to 'amp his act' (not that unlikely, but maybe he mistook tears of laughter, as it is clearly impossible for someone who produces Piers Morgan's show to have such a delicate soul as to cry due to 'the fact that the showdown became so out of control and off-script ') then he's also proud of making a woman cry.

"After the second segment, Morgan told Jones, “You’re done,” to which Jones responded by accusing Morgan of chickening out of the confrontation.
“We will defeat you,” Jones told Morgan, to which Morgan responded by snickering."

Lol. Nothing to do with the incredible rudeness of him mocking Piers' accent by imitating it (badly) while finally actually answering some questions for quite a while at the end of the second segment.

I really hope he's some sort of supertroll and will eventually come out as a deliberate fraud and destroy his followers' minds with incredible cognitive dissonance. It could make for an interesting study too, you could adjust the level of impact by leaking credible evidence of his fraud to some of them ahead of time, leak evidence of him being 'subverted' to lead them to resolve it that way in their heads, see if certain types of people attempt to resolve the dissonance in certain ways, etc etc

unfortunately I know he's for real (such as it is)
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Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate
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Old 8th January 2013, 12:29 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by DreadNiK View Post
I really hope he's some sort of supertroll and will eventually come out as a deliberate fraud and destroy his followers' minds with incredible cognitive dissonance. It could make for an interesting study too, you could adjust the level of impact by leaking credible evidence of his fraud to some of them ahead of time, leak evidence of him being 'subverted' to lead them to resolve it that way in their heads, see if certain types of people attempt to resolve the dissonance in certain ways, etc etc

unfortunately I know he's for real (such as it is)
I think it's isn't so simple. I think much of it is real. But he has learned that he makes money from controversy. So he gins it up. He could be a rabid ideologue who believes everything he says but I suspect the polemics are exaggerated to feather his nest.
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Old 8th January 2013, 12:39 PM   #73
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I am cynical enough to point out that Morgan is milking this for every ounce of free press he can.
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Old 8th January 2013, 12:56 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by DreadNiK View Post
Hilarious. If you still need to hate on Piers (who comes off well by comparison, almost unsuprisingly) then this article does it well: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ti...or-gun-owners/
The guy who wrote that article is one of the idiots who predicted a Mitt Romney victory.

Nate Silver is partisan and wrong. The voters will decide Romney v Obama, not The New York Times

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ti...ew-york-times/
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Old 8th January 2013, 02:01 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Peephole View Post
The guy who wrote that article is one of the idiots who predicted a Mitt Romney victory.

Nate Silver is partisan and wrong. The voters will decide Romney v Obama, not The New York Times

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ti...ew-york-times/
and?

ETA: one hopes you have a valid and relevant reason for pointing out that information, but it unless I'm missing something obvious it'd probably have been helpful to give it explicitly...
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Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate

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Old 8th January 2013, 02:08 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
I think it's isn't so simple. I think much of it is real. But he has learned that he makes money from controversy. So he gins it up. He could be a rabid ideologue who believes everything he says but I suspect the polemics are exaggerated to feather his nest.
true. he just looks so genuinely angry at times though. on some things you can tell he isn't that passionate either way, and you can tell when even he knows he's just pulling nonsense out of thin air, but with things like this he really gets all het up.

also, one has to wonder whether it is, or to what degree, the exaggeration will be conscious, especially since he seems too stupid to be particularly self-aware, maybe it is more Pavlovian - 'when I rant like this, my ratings go up'. If that is the case, this will send him into overdrive as he's gone more viral than I can remember with this one.
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Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate
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Old 8th January 2013, 02:10 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I am cynical enough to point out that Morgan is milking this for every ounce of free press he can.
I'm not exactly aghast at the level of cynicism this demonstrates
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Old 8th January 2013, 02:42 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Why call them bigots - the hypocrite label I can understand but not the bigot label. I am sure some of them are bigots but this reaction seems to be based on something he has actually said/done and his personal characteristics so not really how we usually use the label bigot?
Claiming a foreign born person should go back to their own country is typically a bigoted point of view about foreigners.
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Old 8th January 2013, 02:57 PM   #79
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The forum is running slow so I'm going to make this a multi-reply post:

Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I am cynical enough to point out that Morgan is milking this for every ounce of free press he can.
That's his job, why shouldn't he?

Originally Posted by WildCat
Do people really not realize the petition is a joke?
I'm pretty sure it wasn't intended to be a joke, especially after hearing Alex Jones rant clips on the news today.

Originally Posted by jerrywayne
I personally think he is the best interviewer of such that I have heard in a long time.
I didn't like him at first, they hyped the show too much. Now I think a lot of the interviews I've seen are OK, but one or two times I've heard Morgan ask a ridiculous question.

@ fitzgibbon I'm pretty sure Alex Jones is as crazy as he sounds.
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Old 8th January 2013, 04:33 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by fitzgibbon View Post
I caught a bit of that while channel-surfing last night and was wondering the same thing initially. However, I suspect it's the necessity of having to amp his act just to maintain his cadre of wooish followers. I suspect while they're in commercial breaks, he's actually semi-human. However, I reserve the right to be wrong.

Fitz
Originally Posted by DreadNiK View Post
I really hope he's some sort of supertroll and will eventually come out as a deliberate fraud and destroy his followers' minds with incredible cognitive dissonance. It could make for an interesting study too, you could adjust the level of impact by leaking credible evidence of his fraud to some of them ahead of time, leak evidence of him being 'subverted' to lead them to resolve it that way in their heads, see if certain types of people attempt to resolve the dissonance in certain ways, etc etc

unfortunately I know he's for real (such as it is)
I expect it is a bit of both. I think some of his anger is genuine, such as about Ruby Ridge and Waco, which is how he started, but over time I think some of the more exaggerated episodes of nuttery have been good for his ratings. I think that by now even he probably couldn't tell the line between what he genuinely believes and how much is just BS for his audience.

Anyway, there are plenty of others on the conspiracy circuit who think that Jones is an NWO shill just trying to discredit the conspiracies with idiocy.

Interestingly enough, that op-ed writer in the Telegraph is complaining about the same sort of thing wailing that it's "no fair" that Morgan is getting Jones on to argue for gun control when they could have much more down-to-earth types like Ann Coulter.

Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I am cynical enough to point out that Morgan is milking this for every ounce of free press he can.
Oh, I am sure he is. Having said that, while the guy from the op-ed in the Telegraph was complaining that Jones is unrepresentative of the pro-gun side, in the interview itself it was suggested that Alex Jones was behind the petition. If that's the case then ratings or not, it is perfectly legitimate to bring him on to the show.
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