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Old 28th December 2012, 12:22 PM   #201
Aepervius
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Talking

Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
How many One True Churches are there? Has anyone been keeping count?
Zero or one.

If you are an atheist or not into "church" then it is zero.

If you belong to a religion it is one, very very very accidentally, the one you are in .
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Old 28th December 2012, 12:27 PM   #202
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Lightbulb

I have always been a Christian, was raised an Anglican, fellowshipped with the Salvation Army. Assisted with the Billy Graham Crusades at the young age of eleven. Married in the Anglican Church. At home with my first child as a three month old baby, a knock came to my door. Though not knowing who was there, when the knock came, I was overwhelmed with a desire to open the door. Two young men stood there. I had no knowledge of them or why they were there, but the desire to speak with them was overwhelming. I had never before that even heard of the Book of Mormon, Latter-day Saints or the LDS Church. I was asked to read the first few chapters and to pray to Jesus Christ and enquire as to whether it was true. On doing so, a burning within and a flood of knowledge overcame my being, there was no denying the truthfulness of The Book of Mormon and the message the LDS Missionaries had delivered to my door personally to me from the Lord. I was told I was a "golden contact" and that the Missionaries, though not even in the area, had been inspired to travel specifically to my home.
Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
Well right. A simple question then.
What is it about LDS beliefs that makes them true as opposed to every single other religion on earth that claims the same?
How did YOU Janadele decide 'this one!'?
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Old 28th December 2012, 12:31 PM   #203
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Though not knowing who was there, when the knock came, I was overwhelmed with a desire to open the door.
I'm sorry. But that statement instantly makes me wonder if you were suicidally depressed? In such a state, anything that promises changes becomes a lifeline to be tightly grasped.
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Old 28th December 2012, 12:37 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
I'm sorry. But that statement instantly makes me wonder if you were suicidally depressed? In such a state, anything that promises changes becomes a lifeline to be tightly grasped.
When people knock my door I am always overcome by a desire to open it. No depression involved!
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Old 28th December 2012, 12:38 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
I have always been a Christian, was raised an Anglican, fellowshipped with the Salvation Army. Assisted with the Billy Graham Crusades at the young age of eleven. Married in the Anglican Church. At home with my first child as a three month old baby, a knock came to my door. Though not knowing who was there, when the knock came, I was overwhelmed with a desire to open the door. Two young men stood there. I had no knowledge of them or why they were there, but the desire to speak with them was overwhelming. I had never before that even heard of the Book of Mormon, Latter-day Saints or the LDS Church. I was asked to read the first few chapters and to pray to Jesus Christ and enquire as to whether it was true. On doing so, a burning within and a flood of knowledge overcame my being, there was no denying the truthfulness of The Book of Mormon and the message the LDS Missionaries had delivered to my door personally to me from the Lord. I was told I was a "golden contact" and that the Missionaries, though not even in the area, had been inspired to travel specifically to my home.
They certainly fooled you. The Book Of Mormon is full of mistakes. Why will you not address that issue? Forget the dubious anecdotes.
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Old 28th December 2012, 12:49 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
ShadowSot:
That the responsibility of the Priesthood was withheld from worthy males of Negro descent for a short period of time, was for a purpose known only to the Lord. It was His decision and His alone and not for mere mortals to question... nor is it their business how the Lord directs His Church.

Despite the hype and misreporting, nothing has changed in Latter-day Saint doctrine regarding same sex attraction, nor will it. The recent announcement was to assure the family of a person who may be struggling with this trial, and the individual themselves, that help is available and providing they do not act on such thoughts they are still welcome within the Church. This has always been the official LDS position.
We're at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia.
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Old 28th December 2012, 12:49 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
When people knock my door I am always overcome by a desire to open it. No depression involved!
She was a young wife with a three-month-old baby. Caution is advisable.

Thankfully, it was Mormon missionaries, not the Terminator. Or an Amway salesman.
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Old 28th December 2012, 12:52 PM   #208
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do the LDS get the magic underwear too?
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Old 28th December 2012, 12:53 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
Your blessed sister will have received her reward for her faithfulness. Rejoice in this knowledge and follow her path
Why do you follow a religion of hate and intolerance?

I would never be able to be a member of the LDS church for those reasons alone.
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Old 28th December 2012, 12:53 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
She was a young wife with a three-month-old baby. Caution is advisable.

Thankfully, it was Mormon missionaries, not the Terminator. Or an Amway salesman.
Postpartum depression is a very likely factor.

Janadele,

How does your husband feel about your conversion?
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Old 28th December 2012, 12:57 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
I have always been a Christian, was raised an Anglican, fellowshipped with the Salvation Army. Assisted with the Billy Graham Crusades at the young age of eleven. Married in the Anglican Church. At home with my first child as a three month old baby, a knock came to my door. Though not knowing who was there, when the knock came, I was overwhelmed with a desire to open the door. Two young men stood there. I had no knowledge of them or why they were there, but the desire to speak with them was overwhelming. I had never before that even heard of the Book of Mormon, Latter-day Saints or the LDS Church. I was asked to read the first few chapters and to pray to Jesus Christ and enquire as to whether it was true. On doing so, a burning within and a flood of knowledge overcame my being, there was no denying the truthfulness of The Book of Mormon and the message the LDS Missionaries had delivered to my door personally to me from the Lord. I was told I was a "golden contact" and that the Missionaries, though not even in the area, had been inspired to travel specifically to my home.
Did these young men explain why this supposedly omnipotent god gives children cancer?
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Old 28th December 2012, 01:04 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
...
Keep to one single topic at a time
...
Sockpuppet of Robert Prey?
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Old 28th December 2012, 01:06 PM   #213
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Lightbulb

How perceptive of you and you are right. It is the pureness of heart and wholesomeness of their world. The light of Christ from within. Yes, I have been to Utah many times and spent much time there. It is wonderful to be in an LDS community and see this example in everyday living. Such a blessing.

Inspirational also how a desert wilderness has been transformed through faith and effort into a garden and modern day oasis for a happy family oriented lifestyle.
Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
Janadele (and other Mormons who feel qualified), I have a question for YOU. The answer is subjective, and requires YOUR opinion. I'm sure it's not going to be found in the scriptures, or the official church doctrine. It's also possible that as you live in Australia, and may have never been to Salt Lake City, that you have no idea what I'm talking about. If that's the case, I understand completely.

Question: Why do so many LDS members appear to "glow"?

I swear, the vast majority of those born and raised in the LDS church shine. They have something peculiar to their complexions. I kinda noticed it several times with regard to various individuals when I attended the University of Utah. But when I attended an LDS church service, I looked out over the congregation and was suddenly struck by the idea that if we turned out the lights the whole group would glow in the dark.

I've been all around the country. As a result of being in dozens of foster homes, I've attended all kinds of churches. I've lived with health nuts, booze hounds, and everyone between. I've seen groups of people with alll kinds of common denominators. But the LDS folks are the only ones I've ever seen that shine like they're carrying lightbulbs in their garments.

I welcome your opinion(s).
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Old 28th December 2012, 01:09 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
I have always been a Christian, was raised an Anglican, fellowshipped with the Salvation Army. Assisted with the Billy Graham Crusades at the young age of eleven. Married in the Anglican Church. At home with my first child as a three month old baby, a knock came to my door. Though not knowing who was there, when the knock came, I was overwhelmed with a desire to open the door. Two young men stood there. I had no knowledge of them or why they were there, but the desire to speak with them was overwhelming. I had never before that even heard of the Book of Mormon, Latter-day Saints or the LDS Church. I was asked to read the first few chapters and to pray to Jesus Christ and enquire as to whether it was true. On doing so, a burning within and a flood of knowledge overcame my being, there was no denying the truthfulness of The Book of Mormon and the message the LDS Missionaries had delivered to my door personally to me from the Lord. I was told I was a "golden contact" and that the Missionaries, though not even in the area, had been inspired to travel specifically to my home.
But here's the problem: People report such revelatory conversions to virtually every religion. I personally grew up around Assemblies of God evangelicals who reported revelations of truth every bit as powerful as yours, and they were absolutely convinced that Mormonism is a Satanically inspired false religion. I've met another former Christian man who felt a revelation from God that caused him to immediately see the truth, so he converted to Islam.

Given that these revelations lead people to many different and contradictory truths, is it not more likely that such experiences are simply artifacts of human psychology?
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Old 28th December 2012, 01:09 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
How perceptive of you and you are right. It is the pureness of heart and wholesomeness of their world. The light of Christ from within. Yes, I have been to Utah many times and spent much time there. It is wonderful to be in an LDS community and see this example in everyday living. Such a blessing.

Inspirational also how a desert wilderness has been transformed through faith and effort into a garden and modern day oasis for a happy family oriented lifestyle.
Will you please stop posting meaningless platitudes and answer questions? Why does god give children cancer? Why are you here?
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Old 28th December 2012, 01:10 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
I have always been a Christian, was raised an Anglican, fellowshipped with the Salvation Army. Assisted with the Billy Graham Crusades at the young age of eleven. Married in the Anglican Church. At home with my first child as a three month old baby, a knock came to my door. Though not knowing who was there, when the knock came, I was overwhelmed with a desire to open the door. Two young men stood there. I had no knowledge of them or why they were there, but the desire to speak with them was overwhelming. I had never before that even heard of the Book of Mormon, Latter-day Saints or the LDS Church. I was asked to read the first few chapters and to pray to Jesus Christ and enquire as to whether it was true. On doing so, a burning within and a flood of knowledge overcame my being, there was no denying the truthfulness of The Book of Mormon and the message the LDS Missionaries had delivered to my door personally to me from the Lord. I was told I was a "golden contact" and that the Missionaries, though not even in the area, had been inspired to travel specifically to my home.
Been there done that. As a missionary I had many such experiences. People in other religions have similar experiences. The details are a bit different but for all intents and purposes they are the same.

It's all understandable from a psychological perspective. There is a parsimonious explanation that does not require supernatural entities with unexplainable (magical) abilities.

It's entirely understood and explainable. See temporal Lobes of god.
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I think I'll reroute my trip
I wonder if they'd think I'd flipped.
If I went to LA, via Omaha.
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Old 28th December 2012, 01:10 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
She was a young wife with a three-month-old baby. Caution is advisable.

Thankfully, it was Mormon missionaries, not the Terminator. Or an Amway salesman.
I'm not at all convinced that an Amway salesman would have been worse than Mormon missionaries, except possibly that with the Mormon missionaries, you don't end up with a garage full of crap you can't sell.
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Old 28th December 2012, 01:10 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
No. This idea is not taught in Latter-day Saint Scripture, nor is it a doctrine of the LDS Church.
Quote:
"Then will they become Gods...they will never cease to increase and to multiply, worlds without end. When they receive their crowns, their dominions, they then will be prepared to frame earths like unto ours and to people them in the same manner as we have been brought forth by our parents, by our Father and God” Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 17:143
However, this only applies to men, so Janadele is correct, according to LDS doctrine, she will not get her own world.
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Old 28th December 2012, 01:11 PM   #219
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Quote:
"...A man and his wife when glorified will have spirit children who eventually will go on an earth like this one we are on and pass through the same kind of experiences, being subject to mortal conditions, and if faithful, then they also will receive the fullness of exaltation and partake of the same blessings."

Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 2:48
Quote:
"They will receive everything our Father in Heaven has and will become like Him. They will even be able to have spirit children and make new worlds for them to live on, and do all the things our Father in Heaven has done."

Gospel Fundamentals [2001], 201
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Old 28th December 2012, 01:11 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
I have always been a Christian, was raised an Anglican, fellowshipped with the Salvation Army. Assisted with the Billy Graham Crusades at the young age of eleven. Married in the Anglican Church. At home with my first child as a three month old baby, a knock came to my door. Though not knowing who was there, when the knock came, I was overwhelmed with a desire to open the door. Two young men stood there. I had no knowledge of them or why they were there, but the desire to speak with them was overwhelming. I had never before that even heard of the Book of Mormon, Latter-day Saints or the LDS Church. I was asked to read the first few chapters and to pray to Jesus Christ and enquire as to whether it was true. On doing so, a burning within and a flood of knowledge overcame my being, there was no denying the truthfulness of The Book of Mormon and the message the LDS Missionaries had delivered to my door personally to me from the Lord. I was told I was a "golden contact" and that the Missionaries, though not even in the area, had been inspired to travel specifically to my home.

What's a golden contact? Is that something specific or a bit of sweet-talk?

Also, how did you receive independent confirmation of the truth of the Book of Mormon?
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Old 28th December 2012, 01:19 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
Inspirational also how a desert wilderness has been transformed through faith and effort into a garden and modern day oasis for a happy family oriented lifestyle.
Not really, because the irrigation needed to water the Mormon lands decimated the crops and livelihoods of native tribes. When you look at the human cost of Mormon settlement of Utah, you see yet another case of an invading population displacing, starving and killing a native people.

Mark Twain has a wonderful essay in which he compares and contrasts these two populations in the form of speeches given by the leaders. The Mormon leader brags about converting the wasteland into a paradise. The Native American leader talks about tier paradise being parched into a wasteland. The essay was about unforeseen consequences, and how even good intentions can have evil results.

It's hard to see pure beauty in a thing when you know of the death and human misery that was part of crafting it.
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Old 28th December 2012, 01:26 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by Ambrosia View Post
If you could distill that out of religion and dump all of the other baggage, I might sign up for that one.
Agreed. There is much I like about Mormonism and Mormons.

Originally Posted by Agatha View Post
Randfan, that's admirable. I'm in awe of how much work and soul-searching you must have done to critically examine your previous faith and seen it for the con-job it is.
Thank you. I can also tell you that there was a lot of pain and heartache. Family relations were strained. Some to the breaking point. But overall I'm better. I don't have the cognitive dissonance I once suffered from so terribly. In the Mormon church speaking your conscience can get you excommunicated. So I had to keep my thoughts about racism and the dishonesty of whitewashing the church's history to myself.
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I think I'll reroute my trip
I wonder if they'd think I'd flipped.
If I went to LA, via Omaha.
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Old 28th December 2012, 01:29 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
What's a golden contact? Is that something specific or a bit of sweet-talk?
Mormon missionary vernacular. It's used often to denote what PT Barnum might term... let's call it "a good customer", he, Barnum, wasn't so kind. There's lots of missionary esoterica.
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Ego, ain't it a bitch?

I think I'll reroute my trip
I wonder if they'd think I'd flipped.
If I went to LA, via Omaha.

Last edited by RandFan; 28th December 2012 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 28th December 2012, 01:29 PM   #224
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Quote:
How perceptive of you and you are right. It is the pureness of heart and wholesomeness of their world. The light of Christ from within. Yes, I have been to Utah many times and spent much time there. It is wonderful to be in an LDS community and see this example in everyday living. Such a blessing.

Inspirational also how a desert wilderness has been transformed through faith and effort into a garden and modern day oasis for a happy family oriented lifestyle.
Okay...what is 'pureness of heart', and why do you believe Mormons possess it? Do you think they have more of it then members of other religions? If so, why?

* DragonLady is Dragon. I know nothing of purity except 24k.
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Old 28th December 2012, 01:31 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
I have always been a Christian, was raised an Anglican, fellowshipped with the Salvation Army. Assisted with the Billy Graham Crusades at the young age of eleven. Married in the Anglican Church. At home with my first child as a three month old baby, a knock came to my door. Though not knowing who was there, when the knock came, I was overwhelmed with a desire to open the door. Two young men stood there. I had no knowledge of them or why they were there, but the desire to speak with them was overwhelming. I had never before that even heard of the Book of Mormon, Latter-day Saints or the LDS Church. I was asked to read the first few chapters and to pray to Jesus Christ and enquire as to whether it was true. On doing so, a burning within and a flood of knowledge overcame my being, there was no denying the truthfulness of The Book of Mormon and the message the LDS Missionaries had delivered to my door personally to me from the Lord. I was told I was a "golden contact" and that the Missionaries, though not even in the area, had been inspired to travel specifically to my home.
Thanks for the answer. I must admit that I've read the first few chapters of the book of mormon and found them, to put it mildly, boring and uninspired.
Only the geanologies in the OT were duller in my opinion.
Good for you to find your personal happiness there I guess.
However, since its a personal thing, its not convincing to me at all.
The sheer amount of errors in the book to me make it just as much a human construct as every other so called holy book.

Then again, I was raised agnostic and therefore never was told from birth that Jesus christ was actually divine.
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Old 28th December 2012, 01:31 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
Inspirational also how a desert wilderness has been transformed through faith and effort into a garden and modern day oasis for a happy family oriented lifestyle.
Sort of like Las Vegas. Only with worse fountains.
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Old 28th December 2012, 01:38 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
Inspirational also how a desert wilderness has been transformed through faith and effort into a garden and modern day oasis for a happy family oriented lifestyle.
Janadele, this is confirmation bias. You are simply looking for the good and ignoring the bad to find a reason to rationalize your belief. In fact, there are many societies with less crime, less mental pathology and overall higher rates of well-being.

Society without God: What the Least Religious Nations Can Tell Us About Contentment
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Ego, ain't it a bitch?

I think I'll reroute my trip
I wonder if they'd think I'd flipped.
If I went to LA, via Omaha.
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Old 28th December 2012, 01:39 PM   #228
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My late husband never joined, nor did he give his permission for me to be baptised. However he did not stop me from attending nor raising our six children LDS. One of our sons was on his mission in Colorado when his late father appeared to him and his companion and asked to be baptised. There was great excitement in the mission, and my son was baptised as proxy for his father in the Denver Temple.
Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post

Janadele,

How does your husband feel about your conversion?
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Old 28th December 2012, 01:41 PM   #229
DragonLady
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Quote:
One of our sons was on his mission in Colorado when his late father appeared to him and his companion and asked to be baptised.
Do you mean his father's ghost appeared to him? And of all the questions in the universe to ask or answer, his only thought was to become Mormon?
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Old 28th December 2012, 01:42 PM   #230
Mashuna
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
My late husband never joined, nor did he give his permission for me to be baptised. However he did not stop me from attending nor raising our six children LDS. One of our sons was on his mission in Colorado when his late father appeared to him and his companion and asked to be baptised. There was great excitement in the mission, and my son was baptised as proxy for his father in the Denver Temple.
Well, it's nice of your son to want to please his mother like that, but you can't really believe that your dead husband's ghost appeared and asked for a baptism, can you?
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Old 28th December 2012, 01:42 PM   #231
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Ambrosia said, "do onto others, as you'd want them to do onto you."

sackett said, "do all over others as you'd want them to do all over you."

I'm sorry, I'm sorry! I have no business playing the fool with somebody's honest typo!
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Old 28th December 2012, 01:52 PM   #232
Janadele
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Originally Posted by Mashuna View Post
Well, it's nice of your son to want to please his mother like that, but you can't really believe that your dead husband's ghost appeared and asked for a baptism, can you?
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Old 28th December 2012, 01:53 PM   #233
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'Kay, back to biziness. Joe Smith often makes me think of John Frum, with the difference that some people still (or anyway recently) living have or had actual memories of Frum. (J. Smiff is safely in the land of legend, and the Saints can make up and believe any damn thing about him.)

Why do I bring up this preposterous cargo cult?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Frum

Because it makes just as much sense as LDS -- or Catholicism or Islamism or Jainism or any of the depressingly numerous religions that humans trouble themselves with.

But Cargo is my fave living religion, and I drag it into discussions of this type whenever I can. Question for Janadele: What is the essential difference between Mormonism and John Frumism?
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Last edited by sackett; 28th December 2012 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 28th December 2012, 01:54 PM   #234
halleyscomet
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
My late husband never joined, nor did he give his permission for me to be baptised. However he did not stop me from attending nor raising our six children LDS. One of our sons was on his mission in Colorado when his late father appeared to him and his companion and asked to be baptised. There was great excitement in the mission, and my son was baptised as proxy for his father in the Denver Temple.
Extreme duress and anguish over the loss of a loved one can result in a variety of hallucinations. However, your second hand recounting of a hallucination is not compelling evidence. It is however touching that your son loved his father enough to have that kind of hallucination or loves you enough to lie about it.

Then again, he could just be terrified of you of be desperately seeking your approval or attention. I don't know what your family dynamic is like.

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Old 28th December 2012, 02:01 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
Yes, I can
You believe in ghosts?!?!?!?!
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Old 28th December 2012, 02:02 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
Yes, I can
It violates parsimony and makes a claim that cannot be verified.

When I was on my mission we had a prospective member who told us that she was visited by Jesus and told that the Mormon Church was of the Devil and to stop meeting with us. She was very upset and sorry.

Such claims can be explained though human psychology. There isn't a single major religion on earth that doesn't have millions of such anecdotes.
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Old 28th December 2012, 02:05 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
The glory of god is intelligence lemmings.

Janadele, enough with the rhetoric. Could you respond substantively?

I'm pretty sure we already know the answer to this question.

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Old 28th December 2012, 02:06 PM   #238
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Baptism by authority on this earth, either preferably in person while in mortality, or by proxy when deceased, is a requisite to enable progression in the eternities.

Baptism by authority is a requirement for every mortal who has ever lived on this earth... otherwise their progression is restricted and they cannot inherit eternal salvation.
Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
Do you mean his father's ghost appeared to him? And of all the questions in the universe to ask or answer, his only thought was to become Mormon?
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Old 28th December 2012, 02:08 PM   #239
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I posit the possibility her son made the claim to put her at ease about her husband's afterlife.
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Old 28th December 2012, 02:09 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
Baptism by authority on this earth, either preferably in person while in mortality, or by proxy when deceased, is a requisite to enable progression in the eternities.

Baptism by authority is a requirement for every mortal who has ever lived on this earth... otherwise their progression is restricted and they cannot inherit eternal salvation.
So, if God's children don't jump through the right hoop he cuts them off forever.
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