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Old 28th December 2012, 07:13 AM   #1
Cylinder
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2013 Feinstein Assault Weapons Ban

Sen. Feinstein has publishedan overview of her proposal on her website. This thing has exactly 0% chance of passing the Senate. Hopefully it at least makes it to the floor so we can have a vote.


Bans the sale, transfer, importation, or manufacturing of:

o 120 specifically-named firearms

o Certain other semiautomatic rifles, handguns, shotguns that can accept a detachable magazine and have one military characteristic

o Semiautomatic rifles and handguns with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds

Strengthens the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban and various state bans by:

o Moving from a 2-characteristic test to a 1-characteristic test

o Eliminating the easy-to-remove bayonet mounts and flash suppressors from the characteristics test

o Banning firearms with “thumbhole stocks” and “bullet buttons” to address attempts to “work around” prior bans

Bans large-capacity ammunition feeding devices capable of accepting more than
10 rounds
.

Protects legitimate hunters and the rights of existing gun owners by:

o Grandfathering weapons legally possessed on the date of enactment

o Exempting over 900 specifically-named weapons used for hunting or sporting purposes and

o Exempting antique, manually-operated, and permanently disabled weapons

Requires that grandfathered weapons be registered under the National Firearms Act, to include:

o Background check of owner and any transferee;

o Type and serial number of the firearm;

o Positive identification, including photograph and fingerprint;

o Certification from local law enforcement of identity and that possession would not violate State or local law; and

o Dedicated funding for ATF to implement registration

This reads like the grandfathered weapons - now registered under NFA - would be non-transefferable.
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Old 28th December 2012, 08:07 AM   #2
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I would like to take this moment to, in spirit, spit a throat oyster in that fanatic scum-sucker's face.
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Old 28th December 2012, 08:34 AM   #3
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The NRA is claiming that the semi-auto firearms registered as NFA weapons will be non-transferable, but the NFA of 1934 allows the transfer of these firearms. We will not know until January when the actual bill is released.

If Feinstein wants to make semi-auto's transfer like machine guns, then her bill should allow transfer at any time with BATFE approval. Destroying these firearms upon the owners death is a definite infringement on the right to keep and bear arms.

I wonder what provisions the bill will contain to allow a person to keep their firearms pending registration? It currently takes at least six months for the BATFE to register a firearm. The bill also says we would have to submit the usual fingerprints and mugshots with the ATF form 4, what about firearms owned by trusts?

Will we have to obtain the local sheriff's signatures on the ATF form 4 to register the firearm? Unless the bill requires that the sheriff sign the application, the local sheriffs could prevent registration of any firearm they see fit and for any reason. They are not required to tell a person why the signature is withheld, so it could be for race or creed as far as we know. As far as I know only Tennessee requires that sheriffs sign the applications for those who are allowed to own guns.

Will the $200 tax have to be paid for each gun registered? I hope not. This would be a minimum of $4000 for me to pay. I have spent years educating people on safe and legal gun ownership and now Feinstein wants to increase my tax burden as thanks.

Ranb

Last edited by Ranb; 28th December 2012 at 08:43 AM.
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Old 28th December 2012, 08:47 AM   #4
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It would be a good start.
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Old 28th December 2012, 08:57 AM   #5
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It doesn't go nearly far enough.
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Old 28th December 2012, 08:57 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
It would be a good start.
It would be a pointless, knee-jerk, reactionary piece of garbage legislation that will prevent no crime at the expense of law-abiding people in the name of PR.

Any gun ban legislation needs to make it no further than somebody's shredding machine.

And any legislator who proposes it needs to gather their possessions in a box and be escorted out of their office on Capitol Hill. In Feinstein's case, with a dunce cap on her head.
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Old 28th December 2012, 09:05 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
It would be a pointless, knee-jerk, reactionary piece of garbage legislation that will prevent no crime at the expense of law-abiding people in the name of PR.

Any gun ban legislation needs to make it no further than somebody's shredding machine.

And any legislator who proposes it needs to gather their possessions in a box and be escorted out of their office on Capitol Hill. In Feinstein's case, with a dunce cap on her head.
Will it result in at least one less gun out there? Will it result in guns that shoot fewer bullets before needing to be reloaded? What, specifically, do you think is wrong with the law that makes it ineffective, and how would you word a better law that reduces the obscene number of guns and reduces the firepower of them?
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Old 28th December 2012, 09:14 AM   #8
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The NRA sure is correct about the gun banners being incrementalists.
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Old 28th December 2012, 09:15 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
Will it result in at least one less gun out there? Will it result in guns that shoot fewer bullets before needing to be reloaded? What, specifically, do you think is wrong with the law that makes it ineffective, and how would you word a better law that reduces the obscene number of guns and reduces the firepower of them?
I don't see a problem with the weapons addressed by the ban. They are rarely used in crimes, especially when compared relatively with their ownership. They are a boogeyman raised to score cheap political points by lazy politicians. If those politicians were actually serious about dealing with gun violence they would concentrate on handguns, not large, expensive rifles.

I don't want to reduce the firepower of weapons. If it was me writing the law, I would require a federal registration of all firearms, similar to automobile registration, and mandate storage requirements. Possibly even storing military-style weapons at specific ranges just to put the irrational fear of these weapons to bed for good.

I would not ban them. Doing so is smoke and mirrors. It's operating based solely on emotion.
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Old 28th December 2012, 09:30 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
Will it result in at least one less gun out there? Will it result in guns that shoot fewer bullets before needing to be reloaded? What, specifically, do you think is wrong with the law that makes it ineffective, and how would you word a better law that reduces the obscene number of guns and reduces the firepower of them?
So one less gun owned by a law abiding person is worth this expense? That is crazy thinking. Gun registration on the scale they are proposing is very expensive. They want to waste money that could be spent on methods of keeping guns out of the hands of dangerous people, but instead they will waste it on a registration scheme that will do little or nothing to keep guns out of the hands of potential criminals.

Theoretically it does not lower the number of assault weapons in the USA at all. It grandfathers them in like the last AWB and requires that they be registered. If a person doesn't want to register them they can legally sell them to a person who is willing to just prior to the ban going into effect.

It is a waste of time effort and money to punish law abiding owners instead of improving the way we could keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill and criminals.

Ranb

Last edited by Ranb; 28th December 2012 at 09:31 AM.
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Old 28th December 2012, 09:40 AM   #11
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Can anyone tell me how this AWB if passed into law a year ago could have prevented the tragedy at Sandy Hook? As far as I know it doesn't contain any provision for safe storage of guns. The perp most likely murdered the lawful owner of the guns before taking them out of the house. Nothing in this bill would have prevented the legal owner from possessing the AR-15 and the pistols used at the shooting.

So what good is this law going to do at all? The guns will still be there. It seems it only exists to punish law abiding gun owners.

Ranb

Last edited by Ranb; 28th December 2012 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 28th December 2012, 09:41 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
So one less gun owned by a law abiding person is worth this expense? That is crazy thinking. Gun registration on the scale they are proposing is very expensive. They want to waste money that could be spent on methods of keeping guns out of the hands of dangerous people, but instead they will waste it on a registration scheme that will do little or nothing to keep guns out of the hands of potential criminals.

Theoretically it does not lower the number of assault weapons in the USA at all. It grandfathers them in like the last AWB and requires that they be registered. If a person doesn't want to register them they can legally sell them to a person who is willing to just prior to the ban going into effect.

It is a waste of time effort and money to punish law abiding owners instead of improving the way we could keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill and criminals.

Ranb
Adam Lanza and his mom were law abiding, responsible gun owners until he murdered her along with 20 children.
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Old 28th December 2012, 09:41 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Can anyone tell me how this AWB if passed into law a year ago could have prevented the tragedy as Sandy Hook? As far as I know it doesn't contain any provision for safe storage of guns. The perp most likely murdered the lawful owner of the guns before taking them away. Nothing in this bill would have prevented the legal owner from possessing the AR-15 and the pistols used at the shooting. So what good is this law going to do at all?

Ranb
It'll make Diane Feinstein feel like she's accomplished something good - that's pretty much it.
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Old 28th December 2012, 09:44 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
Adam Lanza and his mom were law abiding, responsible gun owners until he murdered her along with 20 children.
He also murdered several adult faculty at the school. Are the children the only ones who matter?
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Old 28th December 2012, 09:45 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
Adam Lanza and his mom were law abiding, responsible gun owners until he murdered her along with 20 children.
.
Adam Lanza was not a gun owner, he was a gun thief before he became a murder. Why not tell the truth here instead?

So you agree that this bill will not reduce crime?

Ranb

Last edited by Ranb; 28th December 2012 at 09:47 AM.
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Old 28th December 2012, 09:59 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
Adam Lanza and his mom were law abiding, responsible gun owners until he murdered her along with 20 children.
Adam Lanza wasn't old enough to legally own any of those firearms.
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Old 28th December 2012, 10:33 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
It would be a good start.
I assume you are refering to Polaris's post
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Old 28th December 2012, 10:38 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
Adam Lanza wasn't old enough to legally own any of those firearms.
Really?

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...8115128AAMm0Pc

Quote:
Ok I am a Connecticut gun owner and possess a license to carry.

This is how it goes.

If you are 18 Yrs old with no record you can purchase any rifle or shotgun that is legal in CT. You need to pay your dealer and then wait 14 days while a background check is completed. Then you can pick up your rifle or shotgun.

To purchase a pistol, revolver or handgun, you need a state permit to carry pistols and revolver, and you must be 21 yrs of age without a criminal record that would prohibit you from owing a firearm.

To get the permit you must apply at your local police department, complete a safety course, be finger printed and pass a state and federal background check.

If you do in a few weeks to several months you will be issued a state permit.

That permit allows you to purchase any firearm that is legal to own in CT with no waiting period using the instant check system.

Hope this helps.
The Bushmaster would have been legal at 20, would it not? Besides, Nancy was the legal owner, and she let her kids shoot her guns (legally). Then he used it to shoot her and the school. Up until that moment, no laws were broken, were they?
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Old 28th December 2012, 10:39 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
He also murdered several adult faculty at the school. Are the children the only ones who matter?
Right, that's what I meant. Thanks for clearing that up. Only children matter.
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Old 28th December 2012, 10:41 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
Really?

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...8115128AAMm0Pc



The Bushmaster would have been legal at 20, would it not? Besides, Nancy was the legal owner, and she let her kids shoot her guns (legally). Then he used it to shoot her and the school. Up until that moment, no laws were broken, were they?
Yup, they were law abiding gun owners, just like those on this forum, no different. Wait, there is a difference now, they are both dead from bullets from their guns.*


*All of that is based on currently known information.
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Last edited by DavidJames; 28th December 2012 at 10:43 AM.
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Old 28th December 2012, 10:48 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
Yup, they were law abiding gun owners, just like those on this forum, no different. Wait, there is a difference now, they are both dead from bullets from their guns.*


*All of that is based on currently known information.
The guns didn't belong to Adam Lanza. He stole them. Also, there's that difference of shooting up an elementary school. Nobody on the forum has done that.
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Old 28th December 2012, 10:49 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
The guns didn't belong to Adam Lanza. He stole them. Also, there's that difference of shooting up an elementary school. Nobody on the forum has done that.
I honestly don't know if Lanza owned the guns (and neither do you) but it really doesn't matter. He also didn't shoot up an elementary school.....until he did.
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Last edited by DavidJames; 28th December 2012 at 10:52 AM.
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Old 28th December 2012, 10:50 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
Right, that's what I meant. Thanks for clearing that up. Only children matter.
I was only being a little bit facetious. I get the inkling that if Lanza had murdered 26 adults instead of 20 children and 6 adults there wouldn't be the amount of emotion.
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Old 28th December 2012, 10:52 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
I honestly don't know if Lanza owned the guns but it really doesn't matter. He also didn't shoot up an elementary school.....until he did.
However, the mental illness that drove him to shoot up the school was present beforehand. Considering that handgun owners need to be 21 legally, the only way he could have owned the handgun he used on himself was illegally.
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Old 28th December 2012, 10:55 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
Really?

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...8115128AAMm0Pc



The Bushmaster would have been legal at 20, would it not? Besides, Nancy was the legal owner, and she let her kids shoot her guns (legally). Then he used it to shoot her and the school. Up until that moment, no laws were broken, were they?
No, just a law against common sense for having guns in the house where a mentally ill person also lives. But Feinstein's bill doesn't address that at all.

I thought it was like Illinois, where only rimfire (.22s basically) are allowed for those under 21.
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Old 28th December 2012, 10:56 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
However, the mental illness that drove him to shoot up the school was present beforehand.
Can you show me the paperwork indicating his mental illness and shooting up the school was a likely result.
Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
Considering that handgun owners need to be 21 legally, the only way he could have owned the handgun he used on himself was illegally.
Would it have made you happier if he was 21?
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Old 28th December 2012, 11:01 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
Can you show me the paperwork indicating his mental illness and shooting up the school was a likely result.
Would it have made you happier if he was 21?
His brother said everyone n the family knew Adam Lanza was mentally ill. Yet they kept all those guns in the house where he could get them.

And I'm open to the legal age being raised to 25, well after the age schizophrenia manifests itself.

At any rate, you don't advocate taking anyone's gun away or preventing anyone from acquiring a gun unless you have paperwork indicating that shooting up a school is the likely result?
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Old 28th December 2012, 11:03 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
Can you show me the paperwork indicating his mental illness and shooting up the school was a likely result.
Unaware if any such exists, and even if I did I'm pretty sure I'd be in violation of the law by releasing it. At any rate, I don't think it's an unreasonable assumption that executing kindergartners requires mental illness.

Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
Would it have made you happier if he was 21?
Of course not. However the point was that there was no way he could legally have owned that handgun, therefore existing laws did not deter him and additional ones would not have had any more effect. Murder is illegal too, after all - and that didn't stop him.
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Old 28th December 2012, 11:03 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
Right, that's what I meant. Thanks for clearing that up. Only children matter.
We noticed you didn't address the fact Adam was a gun thief, why's that? Tell us how these laws would have stopped this?
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Old 28th December 2012, 11:08 AM   #30
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If Feinstein really wanted to impact crime rate then her bill would have:
- mandated safe storage for all firearms
- imposed restrictions on handguns
- put all private sales through a licenced FFL dealer with appropriate background checks.
- mandating registration of all firearms (but would only be accessible by law enforcement agencies, with severe penalties for publication of such)
- repealing the NRA sponsored clauses on CDC funding and computerised registration
- States would be required to share mental health records with the FBI
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Old 28th December 2012, 11:14 AM   #31
Polaris
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Originally Posted by NWO Sentryman View Post
If Feinstein really wanted to impact crime rate then her bill would have:
- mandated safe storage for all firearms
- imposed restrictions on handguns
- put all private sales through a licenced FFL dealer with appropriate background checks.
- mandating registration of all firearms (but would only be accessible by law enforcement agencies, with severe penalties for publication of such)
- repealing the NRA sponsored clauses on CDC funding and computerised registration
- States would be required to share mental health records with the FBI
Hence my oyster comment. Feinstein has her head so far up her culo that her hair is tickling her brainstem on this issue. This AWB is nothing more than a legislative parlor trick, and the hypocrite knows it.
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Old 28th December 2012, 11:23 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
Unaware if any such exists, and even if I did I'm pretty sure I'd be in violation of the law by releasing it. At any rate, I don't think it's an unreasonable assumption that executing kindergartners requires mental illness.
I'm also not aware of any. I also agree that committing cold blooded murder mentally ill condition. My point is I'm not aware of any tests, much less reliable ones, which indicate someone would commit cold blooded murder. Hence my preference, at this point is to reduce if not eliminate the "means" of the "means and motive". Means being the #1 choice of cold blooded murderers.

Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
Of course not. However the point was that there was no way he could legally have owned that handgun, therefore existing laws did not deter him and additional ones would not have had any more effect. Murder is illegal too, after all - and that didn't stop him.
I agree with you. Laws are useless for those who choose to ignore them. That doesn't mean we eliminate the laws (at least that's what I think). Therefore see the last sentence of my previous comment.
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Old 28th December 2012, 11:29 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
Adam Lanza and his mom were law abiding, responsible gun owners until he murdered her along with 20 children.
We have to get guns away from law-abiding citizens!
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Old 28th December 2012, 11:32 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by zeggman View Post
We have to get guns away from law-abiding citizens!
Cars too. Way to dangerous.
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Old 28th December 2012, 11:41 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
Cars too. Way to dangerous.
Also, rubbing alcohol, and other flammable liquids. Somebody doused a homeless person and set her on fire the other night.
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Old 28th December 2012, 11:43 AM   #36
Polaris
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Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
I'm also not aware of any. I also agree that committing cold blooded murder mentally ill condition. My point is I'm not aware of any tests, much less reliable ones, which indicate someone would commit cold blooded murder. Hence my preference, at this point is to reduce if not eliminate the "means" of the "means and motive". Means being the #1 choice of cold blooded murderers.

I agree with you. Laws are useless for those who choose to ignore them. That doesn't mean we eliminate the laws (at least that's what I think). Therefore see the last sentence of my previous comment.
I don't have a problem with regulating military-style semi-autos. It's the banning part that makes me see red. That includes de facto bans. Nessie outlined a rather reasonable proposal in another thread that would allow continued ownership and purchase of these weapons while potentially reducing gun violence. Also NWO Sentryman's proposal in this thread.

I also don't have a problem with additional laws as required (and better enforcement of existing ones, it's not like those don't already exist). I just want the enacting of laws to be based on reason and not emotion - and Feinstein has a habit of cynically exploiting tragedy to pass laws against her pet boogeyman while people are emotional.
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Old 28th December 2012, 11:47 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
Hence my oyster comment. Feinstein has her head so far up her culo that her hair is tickling her brainstem on this issue. This AWB is nothing more than a legislative parlor trick, and the hypocrite knows it.
Yeah, but it gets her brownie points to hide the fact that she is a fascist.

I mean, peoples who vote for her probably agree with banning guns, but how many of them support her real pet causes? Internet censorship, War on (all)Drugs, Patriot Act extension, Flag Desecration Amendment. Those are not coming from the voters, but her own black heart.
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Old 28th December 2012, 11:53 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Noztradamus View Post
Yeah, but it gets her brownie points to hide the fact that she is a fascist.

I mean, peoples who vote for her probably agree with banning guns, but how many of them support her real pet causes? Internet censorship, War on (all)Drugs, Patriot Act extension, Flag Desecration Amendment. Those are not coming from the voters, but her own black heart.
I actually wasn't aware of that, but I'm not surprised. I've grown up quite a bit since I first became aware of her existence, so maybe my immediate reaction to want to vomit upon hearing her name is Pavlovian. I'll give her credit on environmental issues, and no more.

I call her hypocrite because she carried a pistol while campaigning to deny other people the right to carry. She was the only person in San Francisco allowed to, for that matter:

http://usliberals.about.com/od/liber...nFeinstein.htm
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Old 28th December 2012, 11:56 AM   #39
DavidJames
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
I don't have a problem with regulating military-style semi-autos. It's the banning part that makes me see red. That includes de facto bans. Nessie outlined a rather reasonable proposal in another thread that would allow continued ownership and purchase of these weapons while potentially reducing gun violence. Also NWO Sentryman's proposal in this thread.

I also don't have a problem with additional laws as required (and better enforcement of existing ones, it's not like those don't already exist). I just want the enacting of laws to be based on reason and not emotion - and Feinstein has a habit of cynically exploiting tragedy to pass laws against her pet boogeyman while people are emotional.
First, I really appreciate what I think is your honest consideration of additional measures to help this problem. Clearly I don't think they go far enough but I think the two approaches are basis for a healthy debate.

Second, I really wish you and others would stop attributing my and others interest in stronger regulations then you suggest, to emotions. You really have no clue what drives others opinions. Suggesting it's an emotional response seems to me to be an intellectually dishonest way of hand waving away something you don't want to address.
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Old 28th December 2012, 11:59 AM   #40
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Meanwhile, Colorado background checks are up - 10,000%.

How is this supposed to get guns off the streets again?
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