Bring back corporal punishment!

[Jon_in_london]

Im officially a corporal punishment flag-waver.

Lets look at prison. Michael Howard is famous for saying 'prison works'. I disagree.

For one, its hellish expensive to keep people like that. Why should society have to pay for the upkeep of transgressors? nonsense! The cost of prisons is also rising. Seeing as how the bleeding heart, liberal, hand-wringing, beards and sandals brigade have made sure that prisons are no longer stinky dank dungeons but more like 5 star hotels complete with libraries, pool tables and satellite TV. WTF?!

For two, unless people come out of prison with skills and qualifications that are of use to society they are just going to re-offend and end up back in jail. The beardies would have society taxed just to pay for a transgressors education. But hold on! Why should decent law abiding citizens work their bollocks off day and night to earn enough money to afford the same qualifications and at the same time subsidize the expensive training of reprobates? WTF!?

For three, a great many convicts come out of prison even harder criminals than they were in the first place. We must immediately dismantle these Universities of Crime! WTF!?

Corporal punishment, on the other hand is cheap. It offers a ready deterent, as well as revenge for the victim. After the corporal punishment, (not the oral sex), offenders should be allowed back to their jobs but should work all of their free time on community service projects. There is no shortage of awfull jobs that I could find for them to do. They should work at least hours a day. That way they will be too tired to commit any more crimes. Vote for me as King and you will see, within one month there will be only trace levels of crime in this green and pleasant land!

(no jokes about major punishment etc... please).

[rikzilla]

...and his boss...
Major Injury

-z

[Jon_in_london]

Quote:

Originally posted by rikzilla
...and his boss...
Major Injury

-z

Hey!!! I said

Quote:

(no jokes about major punishment etc... please).

Thats 50 lashes with a soggy noodle for you!

[rikzilla]

Serves me right for skimming instead of reading....

a thousand pardons sahib!

[Mr Manifesto]

Have you any evidence that corporal punishment works?

[Mr Manifesto]

Here is an article with some interesting views on the subject. I have to admit, it would be difficult for me to argue against voluntary corporal punishment. Would that be an acceptable alternative? It seems there is prima facie evidence that it could work.

[Jon_in_london]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto
Have you any evidence that corporal punishment works?

Do you want to get 200 lashes with a cat'o'nines?

[DaChew]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jon_in_london


Do you want to get 200 lashes with a cat'o'nines?

Do I get to choose who does the lashing and what they'll be wearing?

[Mr Manifesto]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jon_in_london


Do you want to get 200 lashes with a cat'o'nines?

We may have been simulposting- did you see my link? I just happen to think that this is very interesting. Choose your own punishment! I'd support the death penalty if the prisoner had a choice.

[Jon_in_london]

Quote:

Originally posted by DaChew


Do I get to choose who does the lashing and what they'll be wearing?

no

[Jon_in_london]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


We may have been simulposting- did you see my link? I just happen to think that this is very interesting. Choose your own punishment! I'd support the death penalty if the prisoner had a choice.

I went to a school with corporal punishment. I would have prefered corporal punishment to detention. Nevertheless, corporal punishment was a much better 'teacher' than detention. Detention was boring and drawn out which is why I would have chosen to avoid it but when its literally your arse on the line, you tend to consider your planned transgressions a bit more seriously.

[Mr Manifesto]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jon_in_london


I went to a school with corporal punishment. I would have prefered corporal punishment to detention. Nevertheless, corporal punishment was a much better 'teacher' than detention. Detention was boring and drawn out which is why I would have chosen to avoid it but when its literally your arse on the line, you tend to consider your planned transgressions a bit more seriously.

Well, corporal punishment never worked for me. And, just to piss me off all the more, I got my last whack a mere day before it got banned in my state. WHY COULDN'T THEY HAVE BANNED IT A BIT SOONER? Stupid politicians.

[Jon_in_london]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


Well, corporal punishment never worked for me. And, just to piss me off all the more, I got my last whack a mere day before it got banned in my state. WHY COULDN'T THEY HAVE BANNED IT A BIT SOONER? Stupid politicians.

You should thank corporal punishment for the fact that you are a decent upright JREF poster rather than some scaly ***** for brains- like reprobate like Richard G.

The simple fact that you are still so pissed off that you got punished a day before it was banned speaks for itself.

[Skeptic]

Mr. Manifesto wrote:

...just to piss me off all the more, I got my last whack a mere day before it got banned in my state.

So much for the "it improves one's moral character" argument in its favor.

[DaChew]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jon_in_london


no

How about dim lights and some Barry White?

[Mr Manifesto]

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeptic
Mr. Manifesto wrote:

...just to piss me off all the more, I got my last whack a mere day before it got banned in my state.

So much for the "it improves one's moral character" argument in its favor.

Yeah, I admit that I shouldn't've knocked down all those houses with the School Bulldozer, but I heard that it was the right thing to do if you were an Israeli. What can I say?

[Jon_in_london]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


Yeah, I admit that I shouldn't've knocked down all those houses with the School Bulldozer, but I heard that it was the right thing to do if you were an Israeli. What can I say?

Or fired on the democratically elected British MPs on a UN fact-finding mission to the Gaza Strip for that matter....

[hammegk]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto
Have you any evidence that corporal punishment works?

You personal experience of it didn't work, that's obvious. Although apparently you didn't like it too well; maybe it was stopped a few incidents too soon in your case?

[Skeptic]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


Yeah, I admit that I shouldn't've knocked down all those houses with the School Bulldozer, but I heard that it was the right thing to do if you were an Israeli. What can I say?

You know absolutely nothing at all about israel, do you, Mr. M?

But, since we're talking about israel and corporal punishment, there's an old joke about it.

An American, Frenchman, and israeli are captured by a blood-thirsty tribe of cannibal who are about to eat them. They get one last wish.

The American asks for a cold beer. The Frenchman for a glass of wine. The israeli asks to be kicked in the ass, really hard.

The tribal chief shrugs, and kicks him in the ass, really hard. The israeli skids ten feet forward from the kick, takes out a machine gun, and kills the cannibals.

The American and Frenchman ask: "why didn't you do that before???"

The israeli answers: "what? and be accused of starting the hostilities for no reason?"

[Skeptical Greg]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jon_in_london


I went to a school with corporal punishment. I would have prefered corporal punishment to detention. Nevertheless, corporal punishment was a much better 'teacher' than detention. Detention was boring and drawn out which is why I would have chosen to avoid it but when its literally your arse on the line, you tend to consider your planned transgressions a bit more seriously.

Agreed.. I was in a similar situation, and the thought process was something like: " Is this going to be worth a beating if I get caught ?... "

So, the stuff you did was usually pretty spectacular and even if you did get caught, it was worth the beating and the adoration of your peers...

To elaborate on your plan.. Definitely, public floggings..
You could hold them in sports arenas and sell tickets.. Even broadcast them on TV, with a ' Superbowl ' type event at least once a year.. Think " Half Time ".. " Janet Jackson ".. Yeeeeeeeesssssss !


Think of all the revenue you could generate instead of the drain of resources you detailed earlier..

[Skeptic]

Quote:

Originally posted by Diogenes


Agreed.. I was in a similar situation, and the thought process was something like: " Is this going to be worth a beating if I get caught ?...

Anybody else thinking of Rowan Atkinson's sketch, "The Fatal Beating"?

[c0rbin]

Regarding menial labor...

I used to think that prisoners should be used as forced labor, but then I realized that many un-skilled workers need jobs and are willing to slog through the ***** to earn an honest wage.

I don't think it is fair that criminals do this.

I say medical experiments

[Shane Costello]

AFAIK corporal punishment is still on the statute books on the Isle of Man.

[Bjorn]

Quote:

Originally posted by Shane Costello
AFAIK corporal punishment is still on the statute books on the Isle of Man.

Singapore is still doing it in the schools, although just for boys:

Quote:

In an editorial in the latest issue of its publication, The Mentor, the STU said schoolgirls know "all too well" that corporal punishment could only be inflicted on boys.

This has "effectively tied" the hands of teachers when it comes to disciplining girls, it said.

A few others countries 'down there' like Malaysia and Brunei has caning as an incorporated part of the judicial system.

[Rob Lister]

Quote:

Originally posted by Bjorn
Singapore is still doing it in the schools, although just for boys:

A few others countries 'down there' like Malaysia and Brunei has caning as an incorporated part of the judicial system.

I thought Singapore was one such country. Wasn't there a big international rucus about ten years back when some young-dumb western tourist was caught spraypainting graffiti and was sentenced to be caned. IMS, they carried it out.

Singapore is very clean, very neat, and they don't sell chewing gum.

[Bjorn]

Quote:

Originally posted by Rob Lister
I thought Singapore was one such country. Wasn't there a big international rucus about ten years back when some young-dumb western tourist was caught spraypainting graffiti and was sentenced to be caned. IMS, they carried it out.

Singapore is very clean, very neat, and they don't sell chewing gum.

Malaysia cannot be said to be either, and they sell chewing gum.

Jokes aside, I doubt if one can find, in general, lower crime rates in countries where they have corporal punishment compared to those which don't - and the same goes for death penalty if I recall correctly.

[Meadmaker]

Is there any evidence of any sort showing that one form of punishment is more effective than another in deterring crime?

Every time I've heard arguments about it, the evidence is barely more than anecdotal.

I have reached the conclusion that the severity of punishment is not the most important aspect of the deterrence. Far more important is the certainty of punishment. The possibility of death by torture won't deter crime very much if the perpetrator believes he won't get caught.



I have occaisionally thought that flogging would be a better form of punishment that locking miscreants up for six months. I eventually rejected the notion because it became obvious to me that there would be a good deal of enjoyment for the people inflicting the punishment, or those of us in the general population who get to vicariously experience the thrill as we read about it in the papers.

[Jon_in_london]

Quote:

Originally posted by Meadmaker
Is there any evidence of any sort showing that one form of punishment is more effective than another in deterring crime?

You might well be correct that one form of punishment is no better than any other, however some form of severe punishment is needed-coupled, I'll grant you- with a certainty of being caught.

However, a public flogging and or branding HAS to be better value for money than locking someone up, feeding them, educating them, entertaining them etc... for long periods of time.

[The Don]

Doing away with judicial process will also reduce the costs of justice. The salient points have been raised here; does it work as a deterent ? Does it work as a punishment ? I suppose relative to imprisonment or a community service order .

I'm not sure and neither is the evidence. Sure victims of crime may feel better if they can see their criminal being brutalised but they may not be the most objective judges.

My emotional standopint is that deliberately attacking someone is unacceptable and that rules corporal punishment out, it doesn't seem to work as a deterrent (ceratinly at school it didn't - same ar$es, same cane) and I fear that it would be dispensed disproportionately to the poor and disadvantaged

[BillyTK]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jon_in_london
Bring back corporal punishment!

Quote:

Originally posted by rikzilla
rikzilla ...and his boss...
Major Injury

-z

...and Master Bates, and Seaman Stains, in fact, let's bring back the entire crew of Captain Pugwash*!


* This is an urban myth, sadly enough...

[Skeptical Greg]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jon_in_london




However, a public flogging and or branding HAS to be better value for money than locking someone up, feeding them, educating them, entertaining them etc... for long periods of time.

Not to mention the entertainment value to the audience..

If it doesn't deter the criminal, at least the public gets something in return for their trouble.

With my public venue scenario, presented earlier, they ( law abiding public ) gets a chance to make a few bucks at the criminal's expense..

[Skeptical Greg]

Quote:

Originally posted by The Don
...and I fear that it would be dispensed disproportionately to the poor and disadvantaged

How is that any different than the system that is already in place..

It sucks.. But that's the way it is..

[Tmy]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jon_in_london
Seeing as how the bleeding heart, liberal, hand-wringing, beards and sandals brigade have made sure that prisons are no longer stinky dank dungeons but more like 5 star hotels complete with libraries, pool tables and satellite TV. WTF?!

For two, unless people come out of prison with skills and qualifications that are of use to society they are just going to re-offend and end up back in jail. The beardies would have society taxed just to pay for a transgressors education. But hold on! Why should decent law abiding citizens work their bollocks off day and night to earn enough money to afford the same qualifications and at the same time subsidize the expensive training of reprobates? WTF!?

What prisons have you been too??? From what Ive seen they are far from country clubs. As for teaching prisoners, whats so bad about that. Your not gonna steal anyones job with a degree from the State Penn....(of from Penn State for that matter! )

[daenku32]

I would absolutely LOVE to see bunch of old rich guys getting whipped!

(don't read too much into it)

[Kerberos]

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeptic


You know absolutely nothing at all about israel, do you, Mr. M?

But, since we're talking about israel and corporal punishment, there's an old joke about it.

An American, Frenchman, and israeli are captured by a blood-thirsty tribe of cannibal who are about to eat them. They get one last wish.

The American asks for a cold beer. The Frenchman for a glass of wine. The israeli asks to be kicked in the ass, really hard.

The tribal chief shrugs, and kicks him in the ass, really hard. The israeli skids ten feet forward from the kick, takes out a machine gun, and kills the cannibals.

The American and Frenchman ask: "why didn't you do that before???"

The israeli answers: "what? and be accused of starting the hostilities for no reason?"

Which just goes to show how Israelis are. I mean What kind of psycho kill a bunch of people just because they kick him in the ass?

[Elio]

The only kind of acceptable punishment is privation of liberty.

Anything else (torture, death penalty, ...) is unacceptable for it would be incompatible with human rights.

And any justice system has to respect human rights.

If not, what would justice mean ?

Elio.

[Meadmaker]

Quote:

Originally posted by Elio
The only kind of acceptable punishment is privation of liberty.

Anything else (torture, death penalty, ...) is unacceptable for it would be incompatible with human rights.

And any justice system has to respect human rights.

If not, what would justice mean ?

Elio.

Is privation of liberty somehow less brutal than flogging?


A thought occurred to me, while reading the response about old rich guys getting flogged.


If her lawyers can't find a way to get a new trial, Martha Stewart is on her way to a short jail term. It seems that, logically, if anyone would be a candidate for corporal punishment, she would be.

Aside from the comedic potential of discussing a public flogging for Martha Stewart when viewed as a hypothetical, the thought of actually inflicting such punishment, when viewed as a potential reality, turns my stomach.

So, thank you for drawing my attention to this possibility, because it helps me clarify my mind on the issue. I am now certainly against corporal punishment.




There is one "old style" aspect of punishment that I am firmly in favor of, and that is low key public humiliation. Pillories are probably a bit extreme, but a certain degree of publicity for convicted criminals seems to me a good idea. There are various laws now that create registries of convicted sex offenders out there, and several "civil liberties" organizations have complained about them. I, too, complain about them, because they shouldn't be limited to sex offenders. I really like the idea of having records of convictions follow people around, if not for life, at least for a long time. I would favor web sites, coverage in local newspapers, all sorts of things for people who engage in criminal activities.

[Some Friggin Guy]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jon_in_london


Hey!!! I said



Thats 50 lashes with a soggy noodle for you!

You know, Corporal Punishment doesn't work if you are in good with his commanding officer: General Anesthesia.


*Runs away*

[Charlie Monoxide]

How about as an appeasement to the Muslim world and institute Sharia. It'll cut down on the appeals process.

Charlie (how do you appeal a severed limb punishment?) Monoxide