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Old 13th January 2013, 12:37 PM   #1
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Things to Do When Science Fails...

The content of the list depends on the type of scientific failure. For example, when science fails making you immortal, you may as well get the clue how to deal with such a failure from this article titled Belief in God rises with age, even in atheist nations
http://news.uchicago.edu/article/201...theist-nations

Are you kidding me?

Quote:
This suggests that belief in God is especially likely to increase among the oldest groups, perhaps in response to the increasing anticipation of mortality [...]
I guess not.

It looks like a conversion from atheism to theism is primarily caused by the sense/instinct of self-preservation. That makes sense, because we have evolved from animals, and animals are very instinctive creatures. But what about those atheists who stick with their principal belief all the way to the cemetery?

Well, they are no longer guided by animalistic instincts, and that's because they have never evolved from animals - they are the progeny of Adam and Eve.
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Old 13th January 2013, 12:39 PM   #2
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I... direct you to your sigline, lower.
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Old 13th January 2013, 12:49 PM   #3
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But then what are you going to do when God fails?

And you're a failure, yourself?
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Old 13th January 2013, 01:18 PM   #4
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I looked over the report itself, which is here:

http://www.norc.org/PDFs/Beliefs_about_God_Report.pdf

It's a bit thin, don't you think? The narrative is at best equivocal between "cohort effects" (people who were born two generations ago may be living representatives of attitudes towards religion in the WW II era - or before, since some of the surveys are themselves old) and "aging effects" (OMG I am going to die someday! - so if I suck up to Jesus, I won't?).

The surveys find some indication for both kinds of effect. OK. But there is nothing here, not one damned thing, that supports any speculation about why, if there is an aging effect, it favors belief in God. Lots of thing happen as you age besides using up whatever time you have on-planet. None of those things are controlled for in this study.

So, we end up with yet another bikini bathing suit. As the old joke about a bikini goes, "What it reveals is interesting, but what it conceals is crucial."
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Old 13th January 2013, 01:31 PM   #5
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Atheists do not have a belief.

There was no Adam or Eve.

The amount of evidence that we evolved from other animals is overwhelming.

The amount of evidence that some entity created us is zero.
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Old 13th January 2013, 01:42 PM   #6
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It seems like they're mixing up belief with hope. I don't see how all the stuff about theism that doesn't make any sense in youth can become crystal clear just via death anxiety. Not that I read the report yet, or anything. Maybe they talk about it???
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Old 13th January 2013, 01:50 PM   #7
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Quote:
This suggests that belief in God is especially likely to increase among the oldest groups, perhaps in response to the increasing anticipation of mortality...
So theistic beliefs increase with the desire to deny reality.

And?
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Old 13th January 2013, 02:01 PM   #8
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It's fairly obvious Epix doesn't post this sort of stuff to convince anyone. He's probably had well over a hundred threads very similar to this, and nobody's been converted. I don't think he doesn't notice this.

... honestly, I suspect the reason Epix keeps this up isn't to convince anyone else. I think he's trying to convince himself. Like a child chanting, "There is no monster under the bed." when things are dark and frightening.
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Old 13th January 2013, 02:07 PM   #9
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....when does science fail? Science is a process, a way of figuring out how stuff works. The process doesn't fail. Just that some things (such as being immortal) isn't possible.

(Although, I might add, thanks to people who use science, we are living a lot longer than we have in previous generations, so add a "yet" to that statement above. )
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Old 13th January 2013, 02:09 PM   #10
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Another Epix fail. One wonders why he keeps on starting these threads.
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Old 13th January 2013, 03:57 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Mister Earl View Post
It's fairly obvious Epix doesn't post this sort of stuff to convince anyone. He's probably had well over a hundred threads very similar to this, and nobody's been converted. I don't think he doesn't notice this.

... honestly, I suspect the reason Epix keeps this up isn't to convince anyone else. I think he's trying to convince himself. Like a child chanting, "There is no monster under the bed." when things are dark and frightening.
Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
Another Epix fail. One wonders why he keeps on starting these threads.
Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
If they don't keep on exercising their lips, he thought, their brains start working.
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Old 13th January 2013, 04:14 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by epix View Post
The content of the list depends on the type of scientific failure. For example, when science fails making you immortal
Science has never tried to make anybody immortal, so no fail. You fail, from the very first sentence. No cigar, try again. ''When science fail making you immortal'' calls for a comma. When science fails, making you immortal. So when science fails, it makes you immortal. You meant when science fails at making you immortal. Little words are important, please try to include them.

Last edited by dafydd; 13th January 2013 at 04:17 PM.
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Old 13th January 2013, 04:33 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Mister Earl View Post
It's fairly obvious Epix doesn't post this sort of stuff to convince anyone. He's probably had well over a hundred threads very similar to this, and nobody's been converted. I don't think he doesn't notice this.

... honestly, I suspect the reason Epix keeps this up isn't to convince anyone else. I think he's trying to convince himself. Like a child chanting, "There is no monster under the bed." when things are dark and frightening.
Or in this case, "There is a monster under the bed".
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Old 13th January 2013, 05:12 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
Or in this case, "There is a monster under the bed".
...and it's athiest !!!!111leventy!!111
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Old 13th January 2013, 05:27 PM   #15
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Oh, epix.
What a silly study.
What do you think it actually shows?
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Old 13th January 2013, 05:33 PM   #16
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So conversion from atheism to theism has a distinct positive correlation with senility and dementia? Got it, thanks.
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Old 13th January 2013, 05:33 PM   #17
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The OP suggests that people convert to theism as they get older. I don't think this is necessarily true. Atheism is more common among youth. Personally, I attribute that to the internet providing better access to knowledge and information that was not available in earlier decades, leading to the rise in acceptance of atheism within society. Older people are more theistic because they are more conservative in their belief systems, and were more likely to have been raised with religious backgrounds. I don't think that this particular article supports the idea that people change their beliefs as they age, though I admit that this may have been better-supported in the study that the article cites.
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Old 13th January 2013, 10:30 PM   #18
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Well, if as Epix suggests, we will be more likely to believe in God when we're older, weaker, and more afraid to die than we now are, or better yet demented, then it would seem the best and sanest thing to do would be not to worry. If he's right, and since according to scripture God loves the last minute convert most anyway, the obvious conclusion is that we should continue to be atheists and it will all take care of itself.
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Old 13th January 2013, 10:36 PM   #19
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Science harder!
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Old 14th January 2013, 03:03 AM   #20
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I don't get it. 'Science' isn't a monolith. There is a scientific method, but that doesn't fail. A hypothesis might 'fail' when subjected to the scientific method, but that just reinforces that the method works.

I don't get it.
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Old 14th January 2013, 03:52 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by SatansMaleVoiceChoir View Post
I don't get it. 'Science' isn't a monolith. There is a scientific method, but that doesn't fail. A hypothesis might 'fail' when subjected to the scientific method, but that just reinforces that the method works.

I don't get it.
There is nothing to get. This is usual in an epix fail.
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Old 14th January 2013, 04:03 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
There is nothing to get. This is usual in an epix fail.
Got it.
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Old 14th January 2013, 11:19 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Quinn View Post
So conversion from atheism to theism has a distinct positive correlation with senility and dementia? Got it, thanks.
AAAAAhahahaha...
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Old 14th January 2013, 11:30 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by pakeha View Post
Oh, epix.
What a silly study.
What do you think it actually shows?
It shows the consequence and confirms the long suspected. The atheists can't argue a point without shooting an unfavorable topic with ad hominem.
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Old 14th January 2013, 11:30 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by epix View Post
AAAAAhahahaha...
That's about the level of your arguments. Fail, yet again. None of us have been converted into believing in your god, yet again.
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Old 14th January 2013, 11:31 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by epix View Post
It shows the consequence and confirms the long suspected.
No, it doesn't.
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Old 14th January 2013, 01:37 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by epix View Post
It shows the consequence and confirms the long suspected. The atheists can't argue a point without shooting an unfavorable topic with ad hominem.
Nothing like proving to yourself what you already know to confirm your conclusions.
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Old 14th January 2013, 09:18 PM   #28
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It looks like some Ph.D.'s had the misfortune of having their study exposed to the eye of the atheist for whom the senior escape from the paradise of atheism equals treason punishable by a loud horse laugh.

I guess that the crashing sound made by the falling towers of Soviet scientific atheism, is still audible.
Quote:
In Russia, comparing the difference between those who believe in God but hadn’t previously, and those who don’t believe in God but used to, researchers found a 16 percent change in favor of belief.
But there is good news too.

Quote:
“Belief in God has decreased in most countries, but the declines are quite modest especially when calculated on a per annum basis,” Smith said.
It doesn't matter if the decline is "quite modest," as long as it keeps steady. Then, on one leafy autumn afternoon in the year of our Lord 12877, theism will breath its last.

Last edited by epix; 14th January 2013 at 09:29 PM.
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Old 14th January 2013, 09:29 PM   #29
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I am finding as I get older that finding belief in a religion is becoming more and more difficult. I used to feel that if I asked enough questions and listened to enough answers I could at least find the edges of the puzzle. But now I am even confused about what the rules are to basic religions like Christianity. When individuals within a single religion cannot agree on what is right and wrong how can an outsider like me even hope to figure out which religion is correct? If any is correct at all!
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Old 14th January 2013, 09:32 PM   #30
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Epix, no one cares half as much as you about this atheism/theism horse race. Comfortable in your own beliefs (or lack thereof)? Great. Carry on.

Feeling agitated that so many don't share your beliefs? Ask yourself why you need constant reinforcement. You may be teetering.
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Old 14th January 2013, 10:15 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by hgc View Post
Epix, no one cares half as much as you about this atheism/theism horse race. Comfortable in your own beliefs (or lack thereof)? Great. Carry on.

Feeling agitated that so many don't share your beliefs? Ask yourself why you need constant reinforcement. You may be teetering.

^ This. Good post, revealing much about our friend epix.
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Old 14th January 2013, 10:27 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by epix View Post
Well, they are no longer guided by animalistic instincts, and that's because they have never evolved from animals - they are the progeny of Adam and Eve.
Please provide evidence that A) these two people existed ever, B) that the male was snapped into being from nothing by magic, and C) that women can be formed from a male rib by magic. Oh, and D) that snakes talk.

Ground rule: "The Bible says it" is not evidence for the truth of the claims made in...the Bible.

Good luck!
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Old 14th January 2013, 10:49 PM   #33
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I still have no idea what epix is talking about.

I think he just strings random words together.
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Old 15th January 2013, 01:15 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by epix View Post
It looks like a conversion from atheism to theism is primarily caused by the sense/instinct of self-preservation. That makes sense, because we have evolved from animals, and animals are very instinctive creatures. But what about those atheists who stick with their principal belief all the way to the cemetery?

Well, they are no longer guided by animalistic instincts, and that's because they have never evolved from animals - they are the progeny of Adam and Eve.
Hang on.
Did you just say that people who are atheist in old age were not evolved from animals .... but those who convert are following natural instincts of self-preservation - based on their evolution from animals?


Adam and Eve bred atheists (or rather, people who are atheist at a particular laet stage of life, during a particular monitored period), and everyone else evolved?
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Old 15th January 2013, 02:44 AM   #35
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How do you know they believe in God? Atheists might lie. In fact, if atheists are as sinful as the religious say, they likely do lie. Maybe everyone but you is just pretending to believe in God.

Here, I'll show you how it works.
I'm an atheist. Now watch closely...

I believe in God. Really. Truly.

See?

The only logically consistent answer is to distrust anyone who says they believe in God. Which, conveniently, I already do.
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Old 15th January 2013, 02:47 AM   #36
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Hoo boy! How do we know those death-bed converts weren't just trying to be nice and comforting to their religious relatives who came to their bedside? I've been there. You say anything to be nice to stop their tears and pain and leave you to rest in peace.
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Old 15th January 2013, 02:50 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by SatansMaleVoiceChoir View Post
I don't get it. 'Science' isn't a monolith. There is a scientific method,
The availible data strongly suggests otherwise.
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Old 15th January 2013, 02:54 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by neilgodfrey View Post
Hoo boy! How do we know those death-bed converts weren't just trying to be nice and comforting to their religious relatives who came to their bedside? I've been there. You say anything to be nice to stop their tears and pain and leave you to rest in peace.
About time we got some info from the dead. Should I offer my sympathies at your passing? I couldn't find anything in Emily Post about the proper protocol.

Anyhow, welcome to the forum. The dead have been underrepresented here, although often inserted second hand by way of pithy quotes.
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Old 15th January 2013, 10:45 AM   #39
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Funny how shaken by death the theists are. You don't see them authentically realizing that if they're really going to be spending eternity somewhere with their loved ones, they should know they will be reunited before they know it in the grand scheme of things. A lifetime is but a moment compared to eternity. And yet they mourn the dead with all the signs that they realize their loved ones are gone, and they can't deal with it.

Of course one can pretend they're just sad about being separated for a while, but you don't go through something as powerful as mourning when your child goes to college.

Theism is denial. Denial that has been shaped for thousands of years by people as a meme that has made denial itself something to be celebrated by giving it a pretty new name you call "faith". Theism is a desperate need to escape the finality you know in your "heart" is more than a possibility. The dishonest thing about people like Epix is that they pretend they're willing to openly discuss this issue in spite of all their cultural conditioning.

It's almost enough to make me feel guilty knowing I am just serving as a means for Epix to reinforce their personal system of denial by offering myself as a target for the projection of their own faulty beliefs onto my position.

Last edited by Halfcentaur; 15th January 2013 at 10:49 AM.
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Old 15th January 2013, 10:50 AM   #40
epix
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Borgia Apartment, Vatican City
Posts: 3,123
Originally Posted by hgc View Post
Epix, no one cares half as much as you about this atheism/theism horse race.

A horse race? It looks to me like a bus race...



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