Death of the Funeral

[Doubt]

I wonder what definition of funeral is Jonesboy using?

My father had a funeral and was later cremated.

I have been to several funerals that did not involve cremation but the burials were deferred until later.

[Elizabeth I]

My stepfather was cremated, at his request. My mother, brother and I accompanied his body into the chamber where it was placed into the crematory. We did not receive the ashes because my mother had asked for burial to take place in the cemetery in her home town, several hundred miles away. The funeral home managed the transport. We had a memorial at home following the cremation.

My husband was cremated, also at his request. There was a delay between his death and his cremation because in the county where we live a cremation cannot take place until the doctor files the death certificate and the doctor, for some reason, didn't do so quickly. Additionally, we donated his corneas and that surgery had to take place first. The ashes were delivered to the cemetery, where we had a memorial ceremony. We couldn't wait for burial because, as a veteran, my husband was buried in a national cemetery and there are literally so many funerals - with the aging of the WWII, Korean War, and Vietnam War generations - that they are scheduled each hour and a half.

There are probably as many reasons for why funerals are conducted the way they are as there are funerals.

[bruto]

Originally Posted by Doubt

I wonder what definition of funeral is Jonesboy using?

My father had a funeral and was later cremated.

I have been to several funerals that did not involve cremation but the burials were deferred until later.

It appears that Jonesboy has freshened up a few definitions and decided that demise is decay and a funeral is an interment.

[Loss Leader]

Well, whatever the heck the OP is talking about, it has very little to do with Jewish funerals. Not only do we watch the coffin being lowered into the ground, but one is not supposed to leave until the entire coffin is obscured by dirt. In fact, it's an honor to help shovel. I physically shoveled dirt onto the caskets of both my grandfathers.

[Graham2001]

Originally Posted by dafydd

That doesn't happen in crematoria here in Belgium. Either the body is cremated on the day before the service and the urn is present during the service, or the coffin and body are cremated straight away and you get the urn with the ashes to take home with you. The latter is what happened when my wife died.

According to my mother after her mother (My grandmother) was cremated she was given a cardboard box containg the ashes inside a paper bag.

She still has not gotten over it.

[catsmate1]

Originally Posted by dafydd

I'm leaving my body to Antwerp university for medical students to practice on. It will save my relatives the exorbitant cost of a funeral. Does that count as dumping?

Good for you, I've also opted for this. But how will they dispose of your remains after they've finished with them? Here cremation/incineration is standard.

[dafydd]

Originally Posted by catsmate1

Good for you, I've also opted for this. But how will they dispose of your remains after they've finished with them? Here cremation/incineration is standard.

Incineration, or sell me to a kebab shop.

[Lukraak_Sisser]

I must admit that I'm still a little confused as to what the actual point of the OP even is.

A funeral service followed by a cremation is not a *real* funeral?
Does it really matter how quickly the body is reduced to CO2 and water and wether this is done via (micro)organisms or fire?
Also, what about the practice of digging up older graves to make room for the newer dead?

[bruto]

Back when I was a kid, a friend who had been a pretty prominent doctor in his day left his body to medical science when he discovered he was dying. He said "I've taught at Chicago and Johns Hopkins, and now I'll get to teach at Yale."

[Pup]

Interesting to know that watching or participating in filling in the grave is part of graveside services in some cultures/areas/customs. Not something common at all where I'm familiar, though admittedly I rarely attend funerals; my knowledge is more from noticing gravediggers doing their work alone.

Originally Posted by Graham2001

According to my mother after her mother (My grandmother) was cremated she was given a cardboard box containg the ashes inside a paper bag.

She still has not gotten over it.

I was given my mother's ashes in a plastic bag inside an opaque plastic box, since we were just going to sprinkle them. Not sure what the problem would be? Urns or fancier containers cost money, so I'd consider it a plus that the funeral home didn't automatically charge for one without getting her approval.

[ehcks]

Even if true, so?

If a relative wants their body cremated and I don't want the ashes, why would I care when it happens? Every crematorium I've ever heard of does it before the service, but if they didn't, why should I care?

[Femke]

Originally Posted by catsmate1

Good for you, I've also opted for this. But how will they dispose of your remains after they've finished with them? Here cremation/incineration is standard.

I've opted for 'remove as many bits as you can reuse, a well-catered party with a closed coffin, and cremation'.
The medical faculty option is a very honourable one.

[Rolfe]

Hmmm. When my mother died, we had a church service with the coffin in the church. Because it was quite a long way (including a ferry ride) to the town where she was to be buried (where my father had been buried over 20 years previously), that was deferred till the following day.

The next day we drove to the cemetery and had a service at the graveside. For the first time ever, I "took a cord", that is symbolically lowered the coffin into the grave. In fact the weight of the coffin is taken by undertaker's assistants with webbing straps and the cords are mostly decorative. There is a strict order of who takes the cords, and traditionally only the male relatives participate. I remember sorting out the list for my father's funeral while everyone was waiting to board the ferry. There were eight eligible male relatives, so neither I nor my mother participated.

Twenty years on, the "men only" thing is eroding more and more. It used to be that women didn't even go to the graveside! And we didn't have eight male relatives in attendance anyway. The minister urged me to take the no. 1 cord, and I made out the list for the other seven, including three of my mother's nieces.

Interesting to realise this was all a hallucination!

Rolfe.

[angrysoba]

A somewhat interesting article appeared in the London Review of Books last issue, which reviewed a Victorian book that had long been out-of-print about how to avoid being buried alive called "Premature Burial: How It May Be Prevented". Somewhat surprisingly for the LRB it mostly debunked a lot of the many stories of people being accidentally interred prematurely, saying that while it can happen a lot of the "cases" of bodies having shifted position in the coffin and bloodied fingernails can better be explained by the corpse being rolled around whilst lowered into the grave or rats gnawing at the fingers.

Unfortunately you have to be a subscriber to read the whole thing:

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v35/n01/deborah-friedell/in-a-box

And the book itself:

http://www.amazon.com/Premature-Buri.../dp/1843913801

And the debunking book:

http://www.amazon.com/Buried-Alive-T...st+Primal+Fear

[Visual Purple]

I've been to all sorts of funerals and memorials. Ash spreading is by far the most visceral and physical act in my experience of any that are common at western funerals. There's the surprisingly large bag of ashes. There are obvious little bits of bone---the large ones are removed or ground. The stuff sticks on hands and often gets in eyes. Compare that to an old-style open-casket funeral with a prettified corpse. I don't think that the ash spreading is any kind of avoiding reality.

[fuelair]

Originally Posted by Mister Earl

Truth-by-proclimation again, I see.

Hey, as good in death stuff as he is in science. The important thing is he is on a steady course!!!

[bruto]

Originally Posted by fuelair

Hey, as good in death stuff as he is in science. The important thing is he is on a steady course!!!

All you have to do is make up your definitions as you go along. The communicating advantage is obvious. Unique definitions make all the wisdom the old ones implied wrong, the genius dong the talking knows just what it's about, and everyone else is obviously an idiot for not getting it, thus giving every thread three topics instead of only one. Insofar as it's possible to pat oneself on the back, one could congratulate oneself on the compactness of it all, but unless one has mastered zen the applause will be faint.

[commandlinegamer]

I'm sure there are more pointless threads than this one, but I don't really visit Conspiracy Theories very often.

[fuelair]

Originally Posted by bruto

All you have to do is make up your definitions as you go along. The communicating advantage is obvious. Unique definitions make all the wisdom the old ones implied wrong, the genius dong the talking knows just what it's about, and everyone else is obviously an idiot for not getting it, thus giving every thread three topics instead of only one. Insofar as it's possible to pat oneself on the back, one could congratulate oneself on the compactness of it all, but unless one has mastered zen the applause will be faint.

Amazingly, that is also the problem I have with philosopy (and more, certain "philosophers" on the threads). Anytime you get to make up and use your own definitions everything just turns to feces!!!

[P.J. Denyer]

Originally Posted by dafydd

What are ''refridgeration'' and ''Creamtion''? What is wrong with the method of cremation that you describe? Another pointless thread from you. Would you prefer it if the family had a barbecue over the burning body?

It's the lack of marshmallows that's so insulting.....

[dafydd]

Thread abandoned by Jonesboy.

[Spindrift]

Originally Posted by dafydd

Thread abandoned by Jonesboy.

My guess is that he is just striving for a Stundie award and will continue to make up these inane threads until he wins.

[Multivac]

Originally Posted by dafydd

Incineration, or sell me to a kebab shop.

[Meadmaker]

I've only attended one funeral for someone who was cremated. The cremation was performed the night before the ceremony.

[Mark6]

First, the assertion part of OP is a load of bollocks.

Second, even if it were true, why is it a bad thing?

Or is it a good thing? Jonesboy seems to feel kind of strongly about funerals, but is not at all clear what exactly he approves or disapproves of.

I'd go with Stundie.

[GT/CS]

Actually, the traditional Western funeral IS dying but not in the manner expressed in the OP.

Funerals are now becoming celebrations of life. The company I work for is removing the pews in our chapels and replacing them with tables and chairs for dining and celebrating. We are also installing screens and TVs and other A/V equipment so we can play videos and show pictures of the deceased during the celebration. We are also removing the casket selection rooms and turning them into celebration rooms.

With this new attitude about funerals many people who would have just ordered a cremation then gone home are now also celebrating the person's life with a funeral celebration.

Soon there will be little difference between a funeral and a wedding receptiion so in a way the banned member who created this thread was correct but for the wrong reason.