How Homeopathy/TRS Works??

[Kumar]

Hello all,

Homeopathy along with Tissue Remedies systems are still existing & florishing since long in widespread/well-disributed & mass public all over the world. Several countries have accepted/recognized it and included it as a academic regular couse as well as in hospitals. It is observered & experianced by million of people all over the world. It is said to have least side/adverse & toxic effects in opposition to conventional system.

Being small molecular & untramolecular in nature of their lower & higher potentised remedies-- their working science couldn't be yet ascertained with current modren technologies & means. Several theories have been presented by several science & homeopathic people to this effect, but still it is a mystry which is causing lot of confusions, suspicions & contradictions among homeopathic, Modren science & general public communities.

It is the duty of modren science to research & find the reasonings of working of these mystry remedies with their best efforts till this system remain popular OR dies in itself. At the present status of its popularity & widespreadness--it can't be assumed that it is a bogus system or so many people can be fool, illitrate or fraud. Today's public is quite educated, clever & accept it honestly.

Under the above considerations, why its working could not be yet justified by modren science may be due to following reasons:-

1. The resources & funds by the goverment & other big agencies are not equally deployed for this system in consideration of its slow effects or otherwise.

2. It is still a weakness of modren science in understanding it.

3. It is intentionally not looked in to deeply & properly under the influence of modren system's lobby which is more prominent & popular in current times.

4. It is not insisted & pursued by homeopathic community-- may be due to some vested interests OR they do not require/need it because is fully satisfied in its current shape.

Whatever is there, but it is a moral & mandatory duty of modren science to apply its best efforts in finding the justification & science of 'working of homeopathic remedies/TRs for the benefits of humanity at large. By just saying it is plain water or fake, can means, declaring so many people including our fathers & for-fathers as FOOL, ILLITRATE, INNOCENT, FRAUD...OR OTHERWISE-- which seems to be bit imposible & illogical & so WRONG.

All or anyone can discuss it for contributing this topic & for their better understandings on the subject, with suitable justifications.

Best wishes.

[Deetee]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
Hello all,
It is the duty of modren science to research & find the reasonings of working of these mystry remedies with their best efforts till this system remain popular OR dies in itself. At the present status of its popularity & widespreadness--it can't be assumed that it is a bogus system or so many people can be fool, illitrate or fraud. Today's public is quite educated, clever & accept it honestly.

Best wishes.

Kumar, in the hope you are not just trolling again....

First show it works.
Then and only then can we address the question of how/why it works.
Popularity of something does not mean it is true or that it works (cf horoscopes, alien body snatches etc)

[The Don]

I realise that it's not what you want posted to this thread but I feel I have to do so for the record.

There is NO evidence for Homoeopathy and/or Tissue salts working. Both are based on outdated concepts and science. Discussin a mechanism by which they work is about as sensible as dicussing the means by which a cloak of invisibility works.

By posting "positively" to this thread , you are merely feeding Kumar's delusions regarding these subjects.

[Quasi]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
Hello all,

Homeopathy along with Tissue Remedies systems are still existing & florishing since long in widespread/well-disributed & mass public all over the world. Several countries have accepted/recognized it and included it as a academic regular couse as well as in hospitals. It is observered & experianced by million of people all over the world. It is said to have least side/adverse & toxic effects in opposition to conventional system.
[/b]

Kumar,

Just one, basic question. I think the normal objections to homeopathy are well covered on other threads, directly to you. Here it is:

Why is it, with all of the billions of dollars being made by homeopathy companies, schools, etc. is the homeopathy industry not investigating homeopathy where: 1) potencies are made up, 2) placebo vials are made up, 3) patients are treated following homeopathy (as it is commonly practiced) using the assorted, blindly randomized vials? This is quite simple, the homeopaths do not know if the labelled vial contains placebo or homeopathic, and it would cover the array of homeopathic solutions specifically for that patient and their symptoms, so where are the excuses? I know, the patient would have to receive all placebo or homeopathic otherwise there could be objections, any others? Why Kumar? Could it be that homeopathy is comprised of well meaning uncritical practitioners mixed with outright frauds? Could it be that the frauds are exploiting people with phony degrees and pharmacies as well as snake oil? Is there any room for placebo or fraud in your view of homeopathy, or is it all goodness with blue skies and green grass?

[MRC_Hans]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
Hello all,
*snip* At the present status of its popularity & widespreadness--it can't be assumed that it is a bogus system or so many people can be fool, illitrate or fraud. Today's public is quite educated, clever & accept it honestly.

Nevertheless, the public is wrong about a number of things. For example, we have several religions that each have billions of followers, yet they contradict each other and at most one of them can be true (since they all claim to be the one and only truth), so most of these people MUST be wrong.

The "fool, illiterate or fraud" bit is a straw-man. It is possible to be neither and STILL be wrong.

Under the above considerations, why its working could not be yet justified by modren science may be due to following reasons:-

1. The resources & funds by the goverment & other big agencies are not equally deployed for this system in consideration of its slow effects or otherwise.

No, because any government or big corporation would love to find a cheap, simple method to improve people's health.

2. It is still a weakness of modren science in understanding it.

No, because science needs not understand things to explore them. For instance, science does still notunderstand in all details how the Sun functions, but that does not keep us from exploring it.

3. It is intentionally not looked in to deeply & properly under the influence of modren system's lobby which is more prominent & popular in current times.

Total nonsense. To reverse your appeal to polularity: How would you suggest that hundreds of thousands of scientists could be coerced into forgoing the fame and fortune in making a break-through discovery in medicine? Not to mention the pharmaceutical companies who would just love to wipe out their competition with simple, easy to make medicines.

4. It is not insisted & pursued by homeopathic community-- may be due to some vested interests OR they do not require/need it because is fully satisfied in its current shape.

It is not pursued by the homeopathic medicine industry, because they thrive off the mysticism. If they tested it, they would loose a very lucrative business. Same goes for professional homeopaths.

Whatever is there, but it is a moral & mandatory duty of modren science to apply its best efforts in finding the justification & science of 'working of homeopathic remedies/TRs for the benefits of humanity at large.

Science has been doing some tests, but they failed to show any effect.

By just saying it is plain water or fake, can means, declaring so many people including our fathers & for-fathers as FOOL, ILLITRATE, INNOCENT, FRAUD...OR OTHERWISE-- which seems to be bit imposible & illogical & so WRONG.

No matter how repulsive we find reality, it remains reality.

All or anyone can discuss it for contributing this topic & for their better understandings on the subject, with suitable justifications.

Best wishes.

To do science we must rid ourselves of preconceived notions. We must observe and weigh our observations logically.

Hans

[Benguin]

Quote:

Whatever is there, but it is a moral & mandatory duty of modren science to apply its best efforts in finding the justification & science of 'working of homeopathic remedies/TRs for the benefits of humanity at large.

It did, and consistently drew a blank. Why waste more resources on a non-starter when there is so much valuable efficacious research in pressing need of funding? Don't answer that.

You've said all this stuff before, kumar, and never managed to respond properly to any of questions or comments levelled at your fallacious reasoning. Simply pasting it all up again and again is trolling.

I plead guilty to feeding the troll, couldn't resist it.

Move along, move along, nothing to see ...

[The Don]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
1. The resources & funds by the goverment & other big agencies are not equally deployed for this system in consideration of its slow effects or otherwise.

There have been a number of studies into Homoeopathy. Those which have a good protocol (double blind experimentation, objective measurement of results) have shown no effect from homoepathy.

The money which has been invested has shown it doesn't work.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
2. It is still a weakness of modren science in understanding it.

Modern science cannot unserstand it because there is NOTHING to understand. This is the same way in which modern science cannot explain how dragons blow fire without exploding.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
3. It is intentionally not looked in to deeply & properly under the influence of modren system's lobby which is more prominent & popular in current times.

This is quite untrue, the Pharmacological industry would simply love homoeopathy to work. Their margins (and hence profits) would go through the roof if it did.

The only problem is that their studies show that it doesn't

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
4. It is not insisted & pursued by homeopathic community-- may be due to some vested interests OR they do not require/need it because is fully satisfied in its current shape.

I can't speak for the homoeopathy community but I expect that their unwillingness to carry out proper investigations has to do with one or more of the following:

- The just KNOW it works why waste time and money proving it to the sceptics
- The more you monitor it the less well it works, therefore in the interests of their patients, they don't investigate too closely
- They are charlatans who don't want to be exposed

[Kumar]

Deetee,Don, Quassi,

As I mentioned, looking at its popularity & widespreadness, I want to know from you ( science people) now, to tell me how it works? It is not a non-science person's job/capability to prove it according to science, but the scientific community will have to satisfy the public accordingly. Otherwise they can satisfy how & why it is so popular & widespread?

[Benguin]

ARGUMENTUM AD POPULUM

Look it up if you don't understand.

[The Don]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
I want to know from you ( science people) now, to tell me how it works?

It doesn't

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
It is not a non-science person's job/capability to prove it according to science, but the scientific community will have to satisfy the public accordingly.

They keep trying, they can't get an effect

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
Otherwise they can satisfy how & why it is so popular & widespread?

It's popular and widespread because people would like to believe that they'll get a guaranteed cure from homoeopathy rather than a not guaranteed cure from medicine. Of course the reason why the homoeopathic cure is guaranteed is because the "healer" is lying or mistaken

[Benguin]

Belief the number 13 is unlucky is 'popular and widespread', as is belief the earth is flat, belief in withcraft (voodoo, ju-ju, all similar in different cultural systems).

And as I said already, using your flawed logic, belief in allopathic medicine is more popular and more widespread.

Saying the same thing again and again is not debating Kumar, it is trolling. I'm beginning to think you are a xanta/oaf sock puppet.

[MRC_Hans]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
Deetee,Don, Quassi,

As I mentioned, looking at its popularity & widespreadness, I want to know from you ( science people) now, to tell me how it works? It is not a non-science person's job/capability to prove it according to science, but the scientific community will have to satisfy the public accordingly. Otherwise they can satisfy how & why it is so popular & widespread?

From: Science
To: The widespread public
Re: Homeopathy, wichcraft, tissue salts, touch healing, prayer healing, etc.

Dear widespread public.

We regret to inform you that the abovementioned methods of healing sick people have all been investigated and found to have no objective effect.

The often perceived effect from such regimens are due to placebo efffect, faulty interpretation of natural recovery, and, unfortunately, a number of examples of deliberate fraud.

Best regards,
Science


.... Hans

[Kumar]

Mr. Hans, Benguin, Don,

I don't believe in all that same stuff which you have mentioned so many times. I think, by this time of extreme advanced research & technologies--everything is mostly/already settled & whatever still exists can hold something 'REALITY'. People are also sufficiently become well educated & advanced. So, I can't even think to disbelive so many well educated people. I therefore, insist & demand that the science people to satisfy the common public like me ,the reasoning of the same OR just say (1): We could not know as yet, the science & reasoning of how homeopathic remedies works, but it works. It is very common mentioning in CMS litretures--so no shame in it. (2): that so many people are illitrate, fraud, innocent, fools or otherwise-- as it don't works. The weaknesses are usually anticipated by contradictions & confusions.

[Kumar]

[quote]Originally posted by The Don

It doesn't

IT is just a story.

They keep trying, they can't get an effect

So many things/aspects couldn't yet be fully/even partly settled by science. It does not mean they left those aspects or not still trying to find the reasonings. REF: Merk's Mannual, for unsettled aspects in tons.

It's popular and widespread because people would like to believe that they'll get a guaranteed cure from homoeopathy rather than a not guaranteed cure from medicine. Of course the reason why the homoeopathic cure is guaranteed is because the "healer" is lying or mistaken

No, it means they are getting benefits but got confused/misguided by so many advertisements & popularity. They become nervous/suspicious in few days of treatment & swith over to CMS without waiting equally as in CMS system. It is also common in other accepted alt. systems & sprituals. I think' lie' word is not usual in homeopathy. 'Mistaken' can be possible as a normal word in MS--but with a benefit gift of of least adverse effects.

[The Don]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
I don't believe in all that same stuff which you have mentioned so many times. I think, by this time of extreme advanced research & technologies--everything is mostly/already settled & whatever still exists can hold something 'REALITY'.

Sticking your fingers in your ears and giong "La, la, la I can't hear you does not change the fact that effects of homoeopathic "remedies" are indistinguishable from the placebo effect. You're entitled to your beliefs. In this case they aer wrong

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
People are also sufficiently become well educated & advanced. So, I can't even think to disbelive so many well educated people.

People are often irrational and mistaken. You're willing to disbelieve the billions of educated people who say homoeopathy doesn't work but not the millions of people who say it does.

If you're doing an argumentum ad populum at least do it properly

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
I therefore, insist & demand that the science people to satisfy the common public like me ,the reasoning of the same

Insist away. There is plenty of research under way. They just can't find the effect

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
OR just say (1): We could not know as yet, the science & reasoning of how homeopathic remedies works, but it works. It is very common mentioning in CMS litretures--so no shame in it.

How many times do we have to say this. It doesn't work. Merely repeating a lie doesn't make it true.

Lots of people believing a lie does not make it the truth either.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
(2): that so many people are illitrate, fraud, innocent, fools or otherwise-- as it don't works. The weaknesses are usually anticipated by contradictions & confusions.

I'm sorry, I don't understand the last few words. "Science" regularly comes out and says there's nothing to homoeopathy. The reason why meny people don't believe this is because they don't want to believe it, they's rather hang on to some mystical fiction.

[The Don]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
They keep trying, they can't get an effect

So many things/aspects couldn't yet be fully/even partly settled by science. It does not mean they left those aspects or not still trying to find the reasonings. REF: Merk's Mannual, for unsettled aspects in tons.[/b]

There are many things science cannot explain exactly. There is however a huge difference between not being able to explain something observable and not being able to explain something which isn't there. The reason science cannot explain how homoeopathy works is that there isn't anything to explain

[MRC_Hans]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
Mr. Hans, Benguin, Don,

I don't believe in all that same stuff which you have mentioned so many times.

That has become painfully clear to us all. If you do not believe anything we say, why do you keep asking questions? It must be clear to you by now that WE do not believe in homeopathy just because some people do.



I think, by this time of extreme advanced research & technologies--everything is mostly/already settled & whatever still exists can hold something 'REALITY'.

These extremely advanced research technologies have found no justification for homeopathy.

People are also sufficiently become well educated & advanced. So, I can't even think to disbelive so many well educated people.

Well, I can.

I therefore, insist & demand that the science people to satisfy the common public like me

You are in no position to insist or demand.

,the reasoning of the same OR just say (1): We could not know as yet, the science & reasoning of how homeopathic remedies works, but it works.

I does not work.

It is very common mentioning in CMS litretures--so no shame in it. (2): that so many people are illitrate, fraud, innocent, fools or otherwise-- as it don't works.

All these people are not illiterate (not ALL of them ), fools or frauds. But they are WRONG.

The weaknesses are usually anticipated by contradictions & confusions.

Exactly, and homeopathy, tissue salts and the like theories are full of contradictions and weaknesses.

Hans

[Kumar]

[quote]Originally posted by The Don


People are often irrational and mistaken. You're willing to disbelieve the billions of educated people who say homoeopathy doesn't work but not the millions of people who say it does.

People who have experianced it regularily can only have right to say & counted for the same. Other skeptic can not have any right. Educated here can also mean-- educated by experiancing these.


Insist away. There is plenty of research under way. They just can't find the effect

It has to go on till.........as I mentioned.

How many times do we have to say this. It doesn't work. Merely repeating a lie doesn't make it true.

Lots of people believing a lie does not make it the truth either.

Yes, equally, how many times the experianced person will say that it works. Who are not experianced/educated not entitled to comment on the same.

]

[Benguin]

Quote:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Kumar
People are also sufficiently become well educated & advanced. So, I can't even think to disbelive so many well educated people.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


People are often irrational and mistaken. You're willing to disbelieve the billions of educated people who say homoeopathy doesn't work but not the millions of people who say it does.

Even Arthur Conan Doyle fell for the famous fairy story, he swung his entire weight behind it's efficacy. I'm not sure if he ever recanted, as I think the girls behind it didn't own up until long after he died.

I deal with educated people every day who hold a supernatural understanding of their computers, not dissimilar to the false understanding of biology that homeopathy involves. Things are much simpler to deal with when you actually understand the cause-effect relationships and don't have to resort to making up nonsense to fit, then expanding and extrapolating it when it fails.

You are being selective in which group of (educated) people you choose to believe. I've said this to you about FIVE TIMES now. If you're trying to appeal only to popularity you fail even before the fallacy is exposed.

[The Don]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
People who have experianced it regularily can only have right to say & counted for the same. Other skeptic can not have any right. Educated here can also mean-- educated by experiancing these.

Okay, so only those people who believe in homoeopathy are allowed to have an opinion on homoeopathy. What about people who have taken homoeopathic remedies byut experienced no benefit ? Are they allowed to have an opinion ?

You've really sunk to the lowest levels of argument here, relying on dogma.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
It has to go on till.........as I mentioned.

So we keep on looking until we find. Except there's noting TO find and the money and resources and manpower wasted looking into a completely spurious effect cannot be spent profitably looking into real cures.

The lure of homoeopathy is such that research WILL be ongoing and Nobel prizes and huge research grants will be available to the first one to find it. It's just that nothing's been found.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
Yes, equally, how many times the experianced person will say that it works. Who are not experianced/educated not entitled to comment on the same.

But the experienced person has a personal investment in homoeopathy and cannot be considered a reliable witness. Why not leave it to those people who are impartial ?

[Deetee]

Kumar, why do you believe that something which is popular has to be true?

You have a touching faith in the ability of the general public to critically weigh up evidence and make informed decisions. Most people are completely incapable of this.

I would go further and say that you are more intelligent than the average British school leaver. But even you cannot see through the stupidity of homeopathy, so what hope is there for the general public?

[Kumar]

Quote:

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
That has become painfully clear to us all. If you do not believe anything we say, why do you keep asking questions? It must be clear to you by now that WE do not believe in homeopathy just because some people do

Experianced/educated people in this line--who says it works are more or only entitled for voting but certainly not just the speakers.

These extremely advanced research technologies have found no justification for homeopathy.

So many things/concepts are still pending to be settled in science, eventhough are well accepted.

Well, I can.

It is just a skeptic approach or a precieved attitude?
...
You are in no position to insist or demand.

YES, We can. Ultimate money can go from our pockets.

I does not work.

Just an skeptic's words-- yet to be experianced.

All these people are not illiterate (not ALL of them ), fools or frauds. But they are WRONG.

It means similarily. One can't be wrong unless he is ...............

Exactly, and homeopathy, tissue salts and the like theories are full of contradictions and weaknesses.

....Weaknesses of current science means.

Hans [/b]

[Kumar]

Quote:

Originally posted by Deetee
Kumar, why do you believe that something which is popular has to be true?

You have a touching faith in the ability of the general public to critically weigh up evidence and make informed decisions. Most people are completely incapable of this.

I would go further and say that you are more intelligent than the average British school leaver. But even you cannot see through the stupidity of homeopathy, so what hope is there for the general public?

Because I might habe been experiancing it regularily(TRS).

[MRC_Hans]

Over and out.
Hans

[Benguin]

Quote:

Experianced/educated people in this line--who says it works are more or only entitled for voting but certainly not just the speakers.

Unless you respond to the questions about this properly, then this is unintelligent trolling;

1. Many people believing something is true does not mean it is true, it just means it is popular.

2. Even accepting popularity, how can you discount the (majority) of educated and experienced people who know homeopathy is nothing more than placebo.

[Donks]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
Because I might habe been experiancing it regularily(TRS).

Kumar, one question. Do you believe there is a chance that the effect you have felt from TRS was nothing more than wishful thinking, or are you absolutely 100% certain that TRS works as well or better than conventional medical treatments?

[Kumar]

Benguin,


1. Many people believing something is true does not mean it is true, it just means it is popular.

Many people experiancing something as true does mean it should be true, popularity is a secondary thing. Can't we think that modren system is more popular & homeopathy is not?

2. Even accepting popularity, how can you discount the (majority) of educated and experienced people who know homeopathy is nothing more than placebo

They may be educated & experianced in other subject but not in homeopathy & so say: homeopathy is nothing more than placebo. One experianced may have more weightage than millions not yet experianced. Millions of kids can't be clever than an aged & experianced person.

Donks, Frankly, I do not feel need for medicines in about 60-70% cases. Above it, I don't take the chance. I would have wished that it could have due to wishful thinking, but unfortunetely I didn't find it. However, I consider corrections by wishfull thinking as best and kept it as my last thing.

[The Don]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
Many people experiancing something as true does mean it should be true, popularity it a secondary thing. Can't we think that modren system is more popular & homeopathy is not?

Just because somebody experiences something doesn't mean it happened. I was watching a cricket game yesterday. I was sure the batsman got a nick on the ball, all my fellow supporters were sure, all of the opposition supporters were sure he didn't. We were all SURE but half of us had to be wrong

Just because something happens, doesn't mean that someone's pet theory is the cause. One of my areas of superstition is that Nelson (111) and all multiples thereof almost certainly causes batsmen to get out. If a batman is dismissed on 111 does this make "Nelson" the cause ? Of course not, it was just co-incidence.

Likewise people "get better" after taking homoeopathic remedies. Are they the cause of the cure ? Scientific investigation indicates not.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
[b]They may be educated & experianced in other subject but not in homeopathy & so say homeopathy is nothing more than placebo. One experianced may have more weightage than millions not yet experianced. Millions of kids can't be clever than an aged & experianced person.

What about people wh have had no response to homoeopathic remedies, should they be excluded too ?

[Kumar]

Hello,

As you are asking, I also have few questions. Pls give true replies.

1. Who will be more justified-- 10 million people with no experiance of homeopathic remedies or one million people who have personal positive experiances in these remedies?

2. Who will have more weightage in voting-- just few who have not felt effects properly or millions who felt & experianced positive effects of homeopathic remedies?

3. Are these people justified to comment on homeopathy--a community who have never experianced, observed in person or surveyed by visting several homeopathic clinics -- the effects of homeopathic remedies?

4. Do the modren medical system also gets several contradictory statements & have several adverses or not?

5. Whether homeopathic remedies, even though bit contradictory but correct & cure anyhow-- is somewhat in the benefit of patients esp. for regular & non risky type of diseases AND where no cure is at all possible(hopeless case) OR not?

Your honest reply or no reply is anticipated.

[The Don]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
1. Who will be more justified-- 10 million people with no experiance of homeopathic remedies or one million people who have personal positive experiances in these remedies?

I think neither of them are in a position to comment. The ones who have conducted studies into the effectiveness of Homoeopathy are certainly entitled to contribute as are those people who have read sthose studies.

Once again, science is not a popularity contest

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
2. Who will have more weightage in voting-- just few who have not felt effects properly or millions who felt & experianced positive effects of homeopathic remedies?

No vote, just science. Bring the evidence of homoeopathy based on peer reviewed, independently verified and published papers.

The plural of anecdote is not evidence (apologies to whoever I nicked that from).

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
3. Are these people justified to comment on homeopathy--a community who have never experianced, observed in person or surveyed by visting several homeopathic clinics -- the effects of homeopathic remedies?

I would say that they are, if anything, more qualified to comment on homoeopathy on the grounds that they haven't been brainwashed.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
4. Do the modren medical system also gets several contradictory statements & have several adverses or not?

Ceratainly people have adverse reactions to medicine. That's becuase medicine actually does something. An adverse reaction to nothing is quite hard to achieve.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
5. Whether homeopathic remedies, even though bit contradictory but correct & cure anyhow-- is somewhat in the benefit of patients esp. for regular & non risky type of diseases AND where no cure is at all possible(hopeless case) OR not?

Ahhh. homoeopathy as a a palliative. By all means but make it quote clear ahead of time that there is no medical benefit to the treatment.

Of course the time and energy used could probably be used to execute other complimentary treatments that actually work.

[Benguin]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
Hello,

As you are asking, I also have few questions. Pls give true replies.

1. Who will be more justified-- 10 million people with no experiance of homeopathic remedies or one million people who have personal positive experiances in these remedies?

Doesn't matter unless you can produce any figures to back up this extra-ordinary claim. People can respond to nothing and believe they experienced something, that is one definition of the placebo effect (or at least what placebos are meant to eliminate). No trial ever identified homeopathy as offering any benefit over nothing at all.

The figures have no meaning at all unless they are from properly conducted trials. You might very well talk about the power of prayer or avoiding the cracks on the pavement.

Quote:

2. Who will have more weightage in voting-- just few who have not felt effects properly or millions who felt & experianced positive effects of homeopathic remedies?

That's the point of a trial, and when conducted the people who'd had homeopathy reacted the same way as those who hadn't.

Don't confuse the lack of a scientific explanation with lack of efficacy. I'd be happy to accept your lame argument that science doesn't yet have the explanation for who it works if we had any evidence that it works. we don't so the scientific debate is largely academic.

Quote:

3. Are these people justified to comment on homeopathy--a community who have never experianced, observed in person or surveyed by visting several homeopathic clinics -- the effects of homeopathic remedies?

If we aren't justified to comment why bother talking with sceptics? I've tried the odd woo remedy ... I'm not wasting my money on more. I tend to only try it if it is complimentary complementary medicine ...

Again, no real evidence. You could use the same nonsense argument to talk about ear-candling, laying on hands, praying, spirtual healing. They are all characterised by people who want to believe they work and will claim credit for any positive change and discount negatives. The credulous convince themselves very easy.

Quote:

4. Do the modren medical system also gets several contradictory statements & have several adverses or not?

Which they acknowledge and work on. That's the difference between proper research and irrationally clinging to faith-based fantasy world of how things work. I'm not sure there are very many contradictions, paradoxes maybe.

Quote:

5. Whether homeopathic remedies, even though bit contradictory

Totally contradictory

Quote:

but correct & cure anyhow

Prove it

Quote:

-- is somewhat in the benefit of patients esp. for regular & non risky type of diseases AND where no cure is at all possible(hopeless case) OR not?

How is scarfing money off desperate people helpful? any more than discouraging them access to proper medical help?

Quote:

Your honest reply or no reply is anticipated.

You're record is stuck ... at least you are now mixing up argumentum ad populum with appeals to ignorance.

Trying to claim the only people qualified to offer a view are those who've had positive experiences is nonsense. Conventional medicine audits itself and learns the efficacy of its treatments through feedback and constant trial. Sometimes things turn out not to be helpful, or with a poor correllation, so re-examination occurs.

Homeopathy does nothing like this and relies on apocrypha and appeals to silent mass of people who 'know its benefits'.

If you are going to stick to this pointless line of reasoning I suggest you print off the last message you wrote and replace the word 'homeopathy ' with 'allopathy' everywhere you see it. Read it back to yourself and see if you are convinced.

Let me know, as I'm not sure where you'll find yourself.

[steenkh]

Kumar,

Your questions have already been adequately answered. However I have a question regarding your first question:

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar

1. Who will be more justified-- 10 million people with no experiance of homeopathic remedies or one million people who have personal positive experiances in these remedies?

Do you believe in UFO abductions? The most convincing explanation for this phenomenon is sleep paralysis. However, if we are to believe the psychologists who make a living of treating these abductees, millions of people have experienced an abduction. Now, most of these people do not know what sleep paralysis is, so they will tend to believe their fashionable hallucinations of UFO abductions. Will the millions of "abductees" be more justified in their conclusions about what happens, than those few people who have not experienced it, but believe it is caused by sleep paralysis?

[glee]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
Homeopathy along with Tissue Remedies systems are still existing & florishing since long in widespread/well-disributed & mass public all over the world.

As are other ways of making money out of gullible or frightened people.
See 'copper bracelets', 'astrology', 'psychics' ...

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
Being small molecular & untramolecular in nature of their lower & higher potentised remedies-- their working science couldn't be yet ascertained with current modren technologies & means. Several theories have been presented by several science & homeopathic people to this effect, but still it is a mystry which is causing lot of confusions, suspicions & contradictions among homeopathic, Modren science & general public communities.

Absolute rubbish.

"Heinrich and colleagues created several linked logic gates by arranging intersecting patterns of some 500 carbon monoxide molecules on a flat copper sheet. A nudged molecule kicks off a cascade of tumbling molecules -- similar to a row of falling dominoes -- and each cascade transmits a bit of information. "It's beautiful, beautiful laboratory work," lauds James Tour, a nanoresearch chemist at Rice University. "

http://www.popsci.com/popsci/compute...7585%2C00.html

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Quote:

Originally posted by Benguin
You're record is stuck ... at least you are now mixing up argumentum ad populum with appeals to ignorance.

Rather neatly, he is also using the appeal to authority fallacy with his argumentum ad populum when he cites the "well educated" public as havingjudged his alt meds to be efficacious.

[Benguin]

Quote:

Originally posted by Badly Shaved Monkey


Rather neatly, he is also using the appeal to authority fallacy with his argumentum ad populum when he cites the "well educated" public as havingjudged his alt meds to be efficacious.

Well I let him have that one, on account of my conan doyle example!

Not sure it matters, he might read our responses but he's not attempting to process them in any way!

[Rolfe]

I can really comment the relaxing and rejuvenating effects of the ignore list, chaps.

Rolfe.

[Kumar]

Hello all,

Thanks for the replis. But I just requested for the honest replies. You can just assume/suppose these figures & modified ist Q as under:

1. Whose comments will be more justified-- suppose 10 million people with no experiance of taking treatment of any system comments something about that system OR one million people comments who have personal positive experiances of taking treatment of that system ?

[Kumar]

Quote:

Originally posted by Rolfe
I can really comment the relaxing and rejuvenating effects of the ignore list, chaps.

Rolfe.

Rolfe,

If got relaxed, I was willing to ask one question from you. Can GI tract acidity/alkalinity effect blood/tissues acidity/alkalinity & if yes, then how?

[Chris Haynes]

Kumar...

To answer this question: "How does homoepathy/TRS work?"

Simple it does NOT!!!

It does not work... it is not even thought of as an actual remedy through out most of the world. It is bogus... it is a play on the under-educated. The ancestors of the Aztecs no longer sacrifice someone everyday to make sure the sun will rise... they do check their cell-phones for their appointments.

You are NOT going to get the million dollar reward for anything.

So do yourself a favor... find a real school and take some real classes on real science. Then get a real job.

[Kumar]

HC,

IS IT A REPLY OR FRUSTRATION? JUST SAYING ' NO' HAS no MEANING.