Another Fahrenheit 9/11 review

varwoche · 9th July 2004, 10:59 PM

It "exceeded" my expectations is several ways:

The degree of manipulative propagandizing was almost nauseating. (Despite that I am very unsympathetic to Bush.) A line that stuck out, paraphrasing: "The military industrial complex wants to keep the population (US presumably) poor and starving."

It was long and boring. Several funny moments though... I literally ROFL'ed out of control at the clip of Rumsfeld calling the "coalition" in Iraq "the mother of all coalitions". And I loved the Dragnet clip.

The factual indictment against the Bush administration is powerful enough without distorting reality.

Virgil · 9th July 2004, 11:35 PM

Im not sure what you're saying...

but With great power comes great responsibility.. it is true.

Virgil

c0rbin · 10th July 2004, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by varwoche

The factual indictment against the Bush administration is powerful enough without distorting reality.

This has been the cornerstone of my own dis-enthusiasm for seeing this film.

And from my previous expirience with this fellow's work, I am not suprised that the above is true.

davefoc · 10th July 2004, 09:30 PM

I haven't seen the film either for reasons similar to the ones expressed above.

Unfortunately, for those of us who think Bush should not be reelected Moore's reputation for misrepresentation and manipulation are going to make it so that the effect of the film may be the opposite of what he had intended.

Sure, it will charge up the faithful and perhaps a few more of them will vote for Bush's opponent because of the film but will these make up for the others who will be swayed to vote for Bush because they can write off Bush criticism as so much partisan, manipulative crap thanks to Moore's efforts.

Sloe_Bohemian · 11th July 2004, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by davefoc
I haven't seen the film either for reasons similar to the ones expressed above.

Unfortunately, for those of us who think Bush should not be reelected Moore's reputation for misrepresentation and manipulation are going to make it so that the effect of the film may be the opposite of what he had intended.

Sure, it will charge up the faithful and perhaps a few more of them will vote for Bush's opponent because of the film but will these make up for the others who will be swayed to vote for Bush because they can write off Bush criticism as so much partisan, manipulative crap thanks to Moore's efforts.

The actual audience reactions and numbers of movie sales in areas surrounding very conservative areas (like military bases) would indicate that Moore is reaching more than "the faithful". That indeed, the critical eye of people who enjoy James Randi's effort to debunk pseudoscience (i.e. us folks) doesn't necesarily translate into the same concerns for the general public. You'd be amazed at how many farmers (& other regular folk) think Rush Limbaugh is providing facts... or is genuinely concerned with America. [Ed. to add - - *so these people consider this style of providing information 'normal'... or at least Micheal is balancing the msg some people get, for the first time maybe.*]

nightwind · 11th July 2004, 09:13 PM

Saw the movie today, and thought it was a good job. While maybe some distortions, also a lot of truth. The interesting thing I thought was that the theater was almost full today, mainly because this is redneck east texas.

And at the end of the movie, everyone clapped, which I thought also interesting for red neck east texas.

Anyone who hasn't seen this movie, needs to see it.

Sloe_Bohemian · 11th July 2004, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nightwind
Saw the movie today, and thought it was a good job. While maybe some distortions, also a lot of truth. The interesting thing I thought was that the theater was almost full today, mainly because this is redneck east texas.

And at the end of the movie, everyone clapped, which I thought also interesting for red neck east texas.

Anyone who hasn't seen this movie, needs to see it.

From redneck East Texas, huh?
Maybe you can see my Mom's place in Bella Vista, AR. Would you wave and tell her I say, 'hi'?

nightwind · 12th July 2004, 08:43 PM

shore nuff

Muslim · 13th July 2004, 03:13 AM

It is boring.

hgc · 13th July 2004, 06:45 AM

Finally saw it last night.

I've never been a Michael Moore fan, and haven't taken in any of his product since "Roger and Me."

But, this was quite excellent. Sure, most of it was actually irrelevant and a little slippery. All the stuff about the connections of the Bush family to the Saudis was not such important news. But it serves to illustrate the venality of these people. Of particular interest is the visit of a Taliban official to Houston in March 2001 to Houston to meet with oil industry bigwigs and connected Republican operatives to discuss a pipeline deal. But wait! Just 6 months later, the Taliban is discovered to be an evil regime! Goddamn these people have zero scruples.

Some of the most powerful moments are when Bush, et al are just shown directly speaking and doing what it is they do, without interference. Going in, I thought the part about Bush sitting in the classroom after he found out about the attack was a diversion. But, it actually served very well to illustrate just the kind of man he is. The point was made that, not knowing what to do and not being told what to do, all Bush could do was sit there and do nothing while the country was under attack. I would tell you that these moments offered bemusement if not for the nauseating effect of knowing the horrible consequences of having such an incompetent and amoral joker in charge (nominally).

StuBob · 13th July 2004, 08:04 AM

Saw the movie a couple nights ago, and had a similar experience as Nightwind. I figgered Alabamians would shun this movie and I'd be the only one there. But no. It was a packed house. It also played sort of like a revival, with some of the audience talking to the screen ("you got that right!" etc). And, like Nightwind, the end of the film was met with applause.

Yes, I could see alot of propaganda going on, but it was also a fine bit of film-making.

9th July 2004, 10:59 PM	#1
varwoche Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 7,230	Another Fahrenheit 9/11 review It "exceeded" my expectations is several ways: The degree of manipulative propagandizing was almost nauseating. (Despite that I am very unsympathetic to Bush.) A line that stuck out, paraphrasing: "The military industrial complex wants to keep the population (US presumably) poor and starving." It was long and boring. Several funny moments though... I literally ROFL'ed out of control at the clip of Rumsfeld calling the "coalition" in Iraq "the mother of all coalitions". And I loved the Dragnet clip. The factual indictment against the Bush administration is powerful enough without distorting reality.
	__________________ To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot (and/or Fat Jack)

9th July 2004, 11:35 PM	#2
Virgil Muse Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 682	Im not sure what you're saying... but With great power comes great responsibility.. it is true. Virgil
Virgil Muse Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 682

10th July 2004, 10:09 AM	#3
c0rbin Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,806	Re: Another Fahrenheit 9/11 review Quote: Originally posted by varwoche The factual indictment against the Bush administration is powerful enough without distorting reality. This has been the cornerstone of my own dis-enthusiasm for seeing this film. And from my previous expirience with this fellow's work, I am not suprised that the above is true.
c0rbin Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,806	__________________ By convention there is color, By convention sweetness, By convention bitterness, But in reality there are atoms and space. --Democritus (c. 400 BCE)

11th July 2004, 07:43 AM	#5
Sloe_Bohemian Critical Thinker Join Date: May 2004 Location: Des Moines, IA Posts: 356	Quote: Originally posted by davefoc I haven't seen the film either for reasons similar to the ones expressed above. Unfortunately, for those of us who think Bush should not be reelected Moore's reputation for misrepresentation and manipulation are going to make it so that the effect of the film may be the opposite of what he had intended. Sure, it will charge up the faithful and perhaps a few more of them will vote for Bush's opponent because of the film but will these make up for the others who will be swayed to vote for Bush because they can write off Bush criticism as so much partisan, manipulative crap thanks to Moore's efforts. The actual audience reactions and numbers of movie sales in areas surrounding very conservative areas (like military bases) would indicate that Moore is reaching more than "the faithful". That indeed, the critical eye of people who enjoy James Randi's effort to debunk pseudoscience (i.e. us folks) doesn't necesarily translate into the same concerns for the general public. You'd be amazed at how many farmers (& other regular folk) think Rush Limbaugh is providing facts... or is genuinely concerned with America. [Ed. to add - - so these people consider this style of providing information 'normal'... or at least Micheal is balancing the msg some people get, for the first time maybe.]
	__________________ ----------------------------- Every event in life is more complex and intricate than is bourne out in the results. Like the Mona Lisa, the portrait is often simple and straight forward... but the painting of it shows true genius. And thus is such as is this letter, the sending of which involved more than just the simple words strung together here.... I yelled at the monitor too.

11th July 2004, 09:13 PM	#6
nightwind Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 398	Movie Saw the movie today, and thought it was a good job. While maybe some distortions, also a lot of truth. The interesting thing I thought was that the theater was almost full today, mainly because this is redneck east texas. And at the end of the movie, everyone clapped, which I thought also interesting for red neck east texas. Anyone who hasn't seen this movie, needs to see it.
	__________________ "A Wise Man can see more from the bottom of a well than a fool can see from the top of a mountain" "Sure there have been injuries and deaths in boxing - but none of them serious." - Alan Minter, Boxer

10th July 2004, 09:30 PM	#4
davefoc Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: orange country, california Posts: 7,255	I haven't seen the film either for reasons similar to the ones expressed above. Unfortunately, for those of us who think Bush should not be reelected Moore's reputation for misrepresentation and manipulation are going to make it so that the effect of the film may be the opposite of what he had intended. Sure, it will charge up the faithful and perhaps a few more of them will vote for Bush's opponent because of the film but will these make up for the others who will be swayed to vote for Bush because they can write off Bush criticism as so much partisan, manipulative crap thanks to Moore's efforts.

11th July 2004, 09:47 PM	#7
Sloe_Bohemian Critical Thinker Join Date: May 2004 Location: Des Moines, IA Posts: 356	Re: Movie Quote: Originally posted by nightwind Saw the movie today, and thought it was a good job. While maybe some distortions, also a lot of truth. The interesting thing I thought was that the theater was almost full today, mainly because this is redneck east texas. And at the end of the movie, everyone clapped, which I thought also interesting for red neck east texas. Anyone who hasn't seen this movie, needs to see it. From redneck East Texas, huh? Maybe you can see my Mom's place in Bella Vista, AR. Would you wave and tell her I say, 'hi'?
	__________________ ----------------------------- Every event in life is more complex and intricate than is bourne out in the results. Like the Mona Lisa, the portrait is often simple and straight forward... but the painting of it shows true genius. And thus is such as is this letter, the sending of which involved more than just the simple words strung together here.... I yelled at the monitor too.

12th July 2004, 08:43 PM	#8
nightwind Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 398	redneck shore nuff
	__________________ "A Wise Man can see more from the bottom of a well than a fool can see from the top of a mountain" "Sure there have been injuries and deaths in boxing - but none of them serious." - Alan Minter, Boxer

13th July 2004, 03:13 AM	#9
Muslim Scholar Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 61	It is boring.
Muslim Scholar Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 61	__________________ there is an if in the middle of life

13th July 2004, 06:45 AM	#10
hgc Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 13,008	Finally saw it last night. I've never been a Michael Moore fan, and haven't taken in any of his product since "Roger and Me." But, this was quite excellent. Sure, most of it was actually irrelevant and a little slippery. All the stuff about the connections of the Bush family to the Saudis was not such important news. But it serves to illustrate the venality of these people. Of particular interest is the visit of a Taliban official to Houston in March 2001 to Houston to meet with oil industry bigwigs and connected Republican operatives to discuss a pipeline deal. But wait! Just 6 months later, the Taliban is discovered to be an evil regime! Goddamn these people have zero scruples. Some of the most powerful moments are when Bush, et al are just shown directly speaking and doing what it is they do, without interference. Going in, I thought the part about Bush sitting in the classroom after he found out about the attack was a diversion. But, it actually served very well to illustrate just the kind of man he is. The point was made that, not knowing what to do and not being told what to do, all Bush could do was sit there and do nothing while the country was under attack. I would tell you that these moments offered bemusement if not for the nauseating effect of knowing the horrible consequences of having such an incompetent and amoral joker in charge (nominally).
	__________________ Bowel-shaking earthquakes of doubt and remorse assail him and wail him with monster truck force. - Cake, The Distance Was there a second singer on the grassy Knowles? - Stephen Colbert

13th July 2004, 08:04 AM	#11
StuBob Scholar Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 85	Saw the movie a couple nights ago, and had a similar experience as Nightwind. I figgered Alabamians would shun this movie and I'd be the only one there. But no. It was a packed house. It also played sort of like a revival, with some of the audience talking to the screen ("you got that right!" etc). And, like Nightwind, the end of the film was met with applause. Yes, I could see alot of propaganda going on, but it was also a fine bit of film-making.
StuBob Scholar Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 85