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Tags Pam Ragland , psychic detectives , psychics

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Old 12th July 2013, 08:27 PM   #1
Graham2001
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Oh Dear, Psychic 'finds' Body Of Murdered 11-Year-Old Boy

You'd think after Sylvia Browne they'd learn.

Quote:
A woman who found what appears to be an 11-year-old boy’s body says she knew where to look and police Thursday are not refuting her claim. Pam Ragland, who says she has psychic ability, knew where to look for Terry Dewayne Smith.


“It’s actually giving me chills right now – I was like that’s the building I saw,” says Ragland.
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/...police-concur/

(Emphasis mine)
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Old 12th July 2013, 08:36 PM   #2
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So she found a body using normal means and claims to have used psychic powers. And the police have agreed she DID FIND THE BODY.

Well, I'm convinced. No one has ever found a body without using magic powers before.
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Old 12th July 2013, 08:41 PM   #3
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From the comments section of the article, this about says all that needs to be said:

"This is pure hogwash. She didn't "lead" them anywhere, and the search location was already publicly known for days.The boy's half-brother was already under suspicion which is why the search location was confined to the family's property. She called a tipline (just like all the other volunteers) and was INVITED (just like all the other volunteers) to help search (just like all the other volunteers) at the location they were ALREADY searching. It was only a matter of time before she or any of the other volunteers or police would eventually have found his body. Every volunteer and officer searching the scene also had an image in their own minds of where they each imagined his body may be, and also knew where the family's home was located; therefore, her claims are meaningless and indicative of nothing special."
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Old 12th July 2013, 08:45 PM   #4
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He was found 100m from his home. What are the odds?!
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Old 12th July 2013, 08:52 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by aggle-rithm View Post
So she found a body using normal means and claims to have used psychic powers. And the police have agreed she DID FIND THE BODY.

Well, I'm convinced. No one has ever found a body without using magic powers before.
Good for you. I hereby honor you with the medal of skeptic of the year
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Old 13th July 2013, 02:59 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by aggle-rithm View Post
Well, I'm convinced. No one has ever found a body without using magic powers before.
I found a dead body in woods and I didn't even know he was missing!!

Now THAT is psychic powers.
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Old 13th July 2013, 03:52 AM   #7
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I wonder how many of these so called "psychics" are out and out frauds and how many really do believe they have some sort of power?
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Old 13th July 2013, 05:09 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by malicus View Post
I found a dead body in woods and I didn't even know he was missing!!
I think you were in a body farm. You should stop jumping fences that say "KEEP OUT".
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Old 13th July 2013, 10:41 AM   #9
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According to the article in the OP, she's not even the one who found the body, her kids did:

Quote:
“It was actually my kids – they said ‘Mommy there’s an animal’ – and I looked at it and said, that’s not an animal,” Ragland says.
So maybe the kids are psychic. Also, great parenting there, taking the kids along on the hunt for missing dead children.

In addition, she had the help of a firefighter:

Quote:
The psychic joined searchers – and she says with the help of a fire fighter — she located Smith’s home and the body.
So maybe the firefighter is psychic as well.

Seems like everybody in this story has greater powers for finding a dead body than Ragland herself. Perhaps next we can set Ragland to finding the goldfish in the fish bowl---provided that we bring the fish bowl and the fish for her first.
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Old 13th July 2013, 11:02 AM   #10
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Here is a radio interview with her:

http://www.kfiam640.com/cc-common/po...4438_19089.mp3

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Old 13th July 2013, 11:06 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Apology View Post
So maybe the kids are psychic. Also, great parenting there, taking the kids along on the hunt for missing dead children.
I'd like to point out that up until the day the body was found, everyone hoped the boy was still alive and was searching for an alive child. The whole story has been odd as mom insisted he was autistic, but his dad and a former teacher have said he was not.
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Old 13th July 2013, 11:25 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Lisa Simpson View Post
I'd like to point out that up until the day the body was found, everyone hoped the boy was still alive and was searching for an alive child. The whole story has been odd as mom insisted he was autistic, but his dad and a former teacher have said he was not.
I will concede that point, since the details of the "vision" don't necessarily add up to Ms. Ragland expecting to find a dead body:

Quote:
“I saw him like under a tree, kind of laying down – like he was sleeping. I saw the city was far away and there was a dirt road,” says Ragland.
However, I would still debate the wisdom of taking children who are young enough to call their mother "Mommy" on the hunt for a missing child for a variety of reasons.
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Old 13th July 2013, 12:10 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Lisa Simpson View Post
I'd like to point out that up until the day the body was found, everyone hoped the boy was still alive and was searching for an alive child. The whole story has been odd as mom insisted he was autistic, but his dad and a former teacher have said he was not.
Not to mention, didn't the mother also say she wasn't aware the child was missing until the next day?

Now, I've got an autistic son, and even if there was some doubt about whether he is autistic, you can bet money I'm going to notice if he isn't there at the dinner table or to say goodnight to, at the very least. I know it depends on the kid, but many times, autism requires a little extra vigilance on the part of the parents. They wander off. They're not alert to certain dangers, like cars.

The whole case is strange and heartbreaking.
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Old 13th July 2013, 06:55 PM   #14
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If she can find two or three other bodies within the next year or so then that might be evidence of something worth investigating.
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Old 14th July 2013, 01:28 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Lisa Simpson View Post
I'd like to point out that up until the day the body was found, everyone hoped the boy was still alive and was searching for an alive child. The whole story has been odd as mom insisted he was autistic, but his dad and a former teacher have said he was not.
That thought sent chills up my spine.* Always look to those closest to the missing. Hope it's not the mom and partner.

/would not enter the MDC on this lame moment. Could be it's getting chilly outside

I hate stories about children dying or especially being killed. And still I click
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Old 14th July 2013, 01:35 AM   #16
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I know it is unfair but I always expect the conversation to go like this:


Quote:
Well yes office I did head straight to the body like I knew where it was because I did.... No! No! I'm Psychic! Yeah, that's it. Psychic! Hey why did you just call me a "suspect" ?
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Old 14th July 2013, 08:00 AM   #17
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I debunked this story on another forum I frequent. Predictably, there is still lame pushback in the form of refusal to view actual facts as opposed to claims.

In one of the articles I read, it was claimed that the Sheriff's Department is checking her out as a suspect. I think it is more a matter of form as opposed to real suspicion, but it does give the lie to the idea that law enforcement thinks she is actually psychic.
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Old 14th July 2013, 09:44 AM   #18
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“I saw him like under a tree, kind of laying down – like he was sleeping. I saw the city was far away and there was a dirt road,” says Ragland.


I"m not too familiar with the geography of L.A but this is incredibly and pathetically vauge.
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Old 14th July 2013, 10:02 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer View Post
“I saw him like under a tree, kind of laying down – like he was sleeping. I saw the city was far away and there was a dirt road,” says Ragland.


I"m not too familiar with the geography of L.A but this is incredibly and pathetically vauge.
It's out in the desert surrounding the L.A. basin - so the city is far away and there are loads of dirt roads. It's as inspecific as saying "I see a name beginning with M".
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Old 14th July 2013, 01:59 PM   #20
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These posts are all well and good but where can I send her my money
and when will Mr. Lancaster give me a big ol' cyber hug for being such a tragic victim?
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Old 14th July 2013, 03:17 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Apology View Post
However, I would still debate the wisdom of taking children who are young enough to call their mother "Mommy" on the hunt for a missing child for a variety of reasons.
Yeah, I thought that was weird, too.
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Old 14th July 2013, 03:45 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by KatieG View Post
That thought sent chills up my spine.* Always look to those closest to the missing. Hope it's not the mom and partner.

/would not enter the MDC on this lame moment. Could be it's getting chilly outside

I hate stories about children dying or especially being killed. And still I click
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news to you, but the boy's half-brother is a suspect.

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Old 15th July 2013, 01:17 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Doghouse Reilly View Post
From the comments section of the article, this about says all that needs to be said:

"This is pure hogwash. She didn't "lead" them anywhere, and the search location was already publicly known for days.The boy's half-brother was already under suspicion which is why the search location was confined to the family's property. She called a tipline (just like all the other volunteers) and was INVITED (just like all the other volunteers) to help search (just like all the other volunteers) at the location they were ALREADY searching. It was only a matter of time before she or any of the other volunteers or police would eventually have found his body. Every volunteer and officer searching the scene also had an image in their own minds of where they each imagined his body may be, and also knew where the family's home was located; therefore, her claims are meaningless and indicative of nothing special."
It's good to read a rational explanation of what happened.

ETA.
Especially in light of this
"According to posts on the "Find Terry Smith" Facebook page, Terry's mother, Shawnee Smith would not allow authorities to search the property or enter the home, so they obtained a search warrant. The search warrant was served this morning and that is when they discovered the remains. "
http://www.examiner.com/article/terr...ld-menifee-boy

Last edited by pakeha; 15th July 2013 at 01:45 AM.
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Old 15th July 2013, 04:38 AM   #24
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Quote:
The psychic joined searchers – and she says with the help of a fire fighter — she located Smith’s home and the body.
WTF?!? They were at the family's property. Odds are pretty good any house there swarming with police and searchers is the kid's house.
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Old 15th July 2013, 07:22 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by pakeha View Post
It's good to read a rational explanation of what happened.

ETA.
Especially in light of this
"According to posts on the "Find Terry Smith" Facebook page, Terry's mother, Shawnee Smith would not allow authorities to search the property or enter the home, so they obtained a search warrant. The search warrant was served this morning and that is when they discovered the remains. "
http://www.examiner.com/article/terr...ld-menifee-boy
That article seems to be extremely out of date and confusing. I don't think 1000s of searchers continued to search after the body was found. And the police have said that it was the psychic that brought them to the site. I don't think this woman is psychic, but that article is a mess.

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Old 15th July 2013, 07:30 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by wardenclyffe View Post
That article seems to be extremely out of date and confusing. I don't think 1000s of searchers continued to search after the body was found. And the police have said that it was the psychic that brought them to the site. I don't think this woman is psychic, but that article is a mess.

Ward
If you find the NBC News 4 Channel report with Tony Shin, you will see excerpts of an interview with Ragland herself. Her own words contradict the "I'm psychic" or "I'm intuitive" schtick.

According to Ragland, here's what happened after she called the tip line and was directed to join the other volunteers at the Menifee Market near (or adjacent to) Terry's home:

1. She drove there with her two children in the car
2. She saw Terry's family in their driveway
3. She asked permission to enter their backyard
4. She entered their backyard
5. She smelled something dead
6. She walk through/around a break in the fence to a nearby tree
7. Her children pointed out a lump in the ground near the tree
8. Ragland called the police
9. The police came
10. The police verfied the lump as a skull and exhumed the body


It was a fortuitous bit of volunteer work onto which Ragland plastered her intuitive/psychic spiel, but nothing at all indicates anything except that one volunteer out of many followed the smell of death to a tree.
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Old 15th July 2013, 07:36 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Garrette View Post
If you find the NBC News 4 Channel report with Tony Shin, you will see excerpts of an interview with Ragland herself. Her own words contradict the "I'm psychic" or "I'm intuitive" schtick.

According to Ragland, here's what happened after she called the tip line and was directed to join the other volunteers at the Menifee Market near (or adjacent to) Terry's home:

1. She drove there with her two children in the car
2. She saw Terry's family in their driveway
3. She asked permission to enter their backyard
4. She entered their backyard
5. She smelled something dead
6. She walk through/around a break in the fence to a nearby tree
7. Her children pointed out a lump in the ground near the tree
8. Ragland called the police
9. The police came
10. The police verfied the lump as a skull and exhumed the body


It was a fortuitous bit of volunteer work onto which Ragland plastered her intuitive/psychic spiel, but nothing at all indicates anything except that one volunteer out of many followed the smell of death to a tree.
I agree with all that and it makes sense. I was just commenting on the examiner.com article which did not make sense.

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Old 15th July 2013, 07:39 AM   #28
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Being able to smell dead creatures is a psychic ability now?
There are a lot of psychic dogs around, in that case.
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Old 15th July 2013, 08:06 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by wardenclyffe View Post
I agree with all that and it makes sense. I was just commenting on the examiner.com article which did not make sense.

Ward
Gotcha.

There is a lot of contradictory stuff in the news reporting, but all the reports act as if there isn't. It isn't surprising, but the shoddiness and incompleteness and gullibility of the reports is truly disheartening.
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Old 15th July 2013, 08:15 AM   #30
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At this point, I'm basing most of my opinion on the radio interview that I linked to up-thread in which the police representative says that the "psychic" found the body.

She's tried before, and failed, to find missing persons. I hope she continues to try so we can get an accurate idea of her success rate. From what we know at this point, she failed to find two missing hikers. They were found, just not by her. Let's hope for more data.

Ward
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Old 15th July 2013, 08:31 AM   #31
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This reminds me of an local incident (upstate NY), where a swimmer went missing. Other swimmers claimed he was swept down the creek he was swimming at. A local psychic (Phil Jordan) said to look for him downstream, and lo and behold, they found his body downstream - And it took somebody who claimed psychic powers to figure THAT out!?

People who believe in psychics were ecstatic, the rest of us simply rolled our eyes, and shook our heads. I wonder if anybody has ever look into all the claims of "Helping" police find missing bodies that so-called psychics claim they have found over the years? Oh wait, maybe Randi has???
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Old 15th July 2013, 09:21 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Moon-Spinner View Post
This reminds me of an local incident (upstate NY), where a swimmer went missing. Other swimmers claimed he was swept down the creek he was swimming at. A local psychic (Phil Jordan) said to look for him downstream, and lo and behold, they found his body downstream - And it took somebody who claimed psychic powers to figure THAT out!?

People who believe in psychics were ecstatic, the rest of us simply rolled our eyes, and shook our heads. I wonder if anybody has ever look into all the claims of "Helping" police find missing bodies that so-called psychics claim they have found over the years? Oh wait, maybe Randi has???
Phil Jordan? I went through a long effort of debunking of another of his claimed cases on this site some time ago. He really is quick to claim powers where none are demonstrated.
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Old 15th July 2013, 11:23 AM   #33
pakeha
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Originally Posted by wardenclyffe View Post
That article seems to be extremely out of date and confusing. I don't think 1000s of searchers continued to search after the body was found. And the police have said that it was the psychic that brought them to the site. I don't think this woman is psychic, but that article is a mess.

Ward
Very true, Ward.
I was making a reference to the comments on the FB page.
The article was gibberish, of course.
Sorry to be unclear.
D'you reckon the Examiner would give me work on the strength of it?

Last edited by pakeha; 15th July 2013 at 11:50 AM. Reason: added "me" in the last sentence [/sigh]
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Old 15th July 2013, 01:53 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Garrette View Post
I debunked this story on another forum I frequent. Predictably, there is still lame pushback in the form of refusal to view actual facts as opposed to claims.

In one of the articles I read, it was claimed that the Sheriff's Department is checking her out as a suspect. I think it is more a matter of form as opposed to real suspicion, but it does give the lie to the idea that law enforcement thinks she is actually psychic.
Read that Garette good work as usual,but still after all that the poster refuses to accept it. Or is trolling,or both.
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Old 16th July 2013, 12:42 AM   #35
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According to Ben:

http://www.centerforinquiry.net/blog...e_missing_boy/

Quote:
Once Ragland and her children were on the Smith property, it was the smell of the boy's decomposing body, not a psychic vision, that located the corpse. In fact Ragland did not find Smith's body; her daughter Sydnee found it while investigating the stench.


Were there trained dogs involved in the search? It seems strange that Pam's daughter would smell the body but the dogs wouldn't.
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Old 16th July 2013, 01:26 PM   #36
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How strange.
The boy was missing only three days and it will require DNA testing to determine if it's the lad?

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/lo...215563921.html

"The identity of the body will not be confirmed for another two to six weeks, Riverside County Coroner's Bureau Sgt. Anthony Townsend said Monday afternoon.

"DNA is our only viable option," Townsend said, adding that the state clearinghouse would need to process the genetic material from the body."
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Old 16th July 2013, 02:28 PM   #37
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Riverside County is one of the hottest places in California. The temperature there is forecasted to reach highs of 111 degrees F today through Friday, and that's pretty typical for Riverside this time of year. It's also nice and humid.
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Old 17th July 2013, 09:47 AM   #38
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Hi

I am new here but take a look at Pam Ragland and her problems with the US Bank:

Quote:
In 2002, Pam Ragland refinanced her home mortgage through Downey Savings and Loan Association. In April 2008, she asked Downey Savings to modify her loan to decrease her monthly payments. While attempting to do so, a Downey Savings employee told her not to make her April payment. Although Ragland planned on making the payment, she cancelled it based on what the employee told her. Later that month, Downey Savings notified Ragland that her loan was delinquent. By June, Ragland received a letter informing her the Downey Saving was beginning foreclosure proceedings on her home. After she lost her home, she sued Downey Savings, alleging negligent misrepresentation, and other claims. She claimed that Downey Savings induced her to miss the April 2008 loan payment, which wrongfully put her loan in foreclosure. The trial court found in favor of Downey Savings. Reversed in part. To prove negligent misrepresentation, a plaintiff has to show that the defendant misrepresented a fact without having a reasonable ground to think it is true, and with the intent to make the plaintiff rely on the fact. Also, the plaintiff must prove that she justifiably relied on the defendant’s statements. Here, Ragland’s evidence showed that Downey Savings told her that her loan was not “behind,” and that she should not make the April 2008 payment. Further, she showed that she did not make that payment because she relied on Downey Savings’ statements not to do so. As a result, Ragland presented evidence that would allow her to prove negligent misrepresentation, and the trial court should not have found in favor of Downey Savings on the claim. Thus, this court reversed the case for further proceedings.
I cant post links but you find it in one blog when you type Pam Ragland US bank into google and she even complains about it in her Pam Ragland blog.

To the point if she was psychic she would not live with cockroaches.. The full text is posted by me on the Skeptic society forum - Woman with visions led to boy's body.

This is what I wanted to add.
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Old 17th July 2013, 10:41 AM   #39
Garrette
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Originally Posted by Azrael 5 View Post
Read that Garette good work as usual,but still after all that the poster refuses to accept it. Or is trolling,or both.
Hi, Az. Long time no talk.

Yeah, Dave is rather immune to actual discussion, but that has long since stopped concerning me. The constant influx of other posters who come in with the same tired and unsupported accusations of closed mindedness, etc. gets tiring, though.

That said, it has been rather heartening on the whole. I was away from the cafe for a long time. Now that I'm back, there seems to be quite a number of people who speak out against woo in general, and Dave seems to have lost his standing as unchallengeable on his manythreads. I egotistically like to think I had a small part in that.
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Old 17th July 2013, 10:47 AM   #40
Garrette
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Originally Posted by Lukas1986 View Post
Hi

I am new here but take a look at Pam Ragland and her problems with the US Bank:



I cant post links but you find it in one blog when you type Pam Ragland US bank into google and she even complains about it in her Pam Ragland blog.

To the point if she was psychic she would not live with cockroaches.. The full text is posted by me on the Skeptic society forum - Woman with visions led to boy's body.

This is what I wanted to add.
Interesting, but I don't think it bears on the issue or the claim. While I have as much fun as anyone with the jokes about "Bet she didn't see that coming!" when alleged psychics are arrested or have shows cancelled or whathaveyou, they really don't mean anything regarding a real rebuttal of the claims. In your specific case, it appears that Ragland may turn out to be right after all.
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