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LostAngeles · 28th July 2004, 11:52 AM

I'm trying to reaffirm my objection to a stupid plot point.

When you walk into a radioactive zone without a suit, the particles (alpha or beta, I think) pass through you, taking out a few of your subatomic particles too.

So as I understand it, this can knock out particles in your DNA strand, causing it to become unstable and either destroying the cell or in lesser doses cancer.

Can anyone tell me if that's even close to being right or am I way the hell off? Is it the proteins it screws up or is it just the general foobaring of your molecules?

geni · 28th July 2004, 12:00 PM

Not sure about the rest but alpha nd beta particles are not going to pass through you (ok some of the beta might). Alpha partis will be stoped by your skin and most of the beta particles will be absorbed by your body.

LostAngeles · 28th July 2004, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by geni
Not sure about the rest but alpha nd beta particles are not going to pass through you (ok some of the beta might). Alpha partis will be stoped by your skin and most of the beta particles will be absorbed by your body.

So it's the gamma I'm thinking of then?

Benguin · 28th July 2004, 12:16 PM

Yes, IIRC gamma is more of an EM wave

Lead suits are for the gamma, and they'll stop the beta. Alpha can be stopped with a sheet of paper.

drkitten · 28th July 2004, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LostAngeles
I'm trying to reaffirm my objection to a stupid plot point.

When you walk into a radioactive zone without a suit, the particles (alpha or beta, I think) pass through you, taking out a few of your subatomic particles too.

So as I understand it, this can knock out particles in your DNA strand, causing it to become unstable and either destroying the cell or in lesser doses cancer.

Can anyone tell me if that's even close to being right or am I way the hell off? Is it the proteins it screws up or is it just the general foobaring of your molecules?

I don't think I understand your question. The radiation (which, contrary to popular belief can include alpha particles as well; think of inhaled radon for an example) can generally mess up any molecule in your body. It's not DNA or protein specific or anything like that -- heck, simply by delivering energy, it can heat a cup of water or cook cells into "food." (See also: microwave oven). Even if the cell isn't destroyed, changes can be introduced into the reproductive functioning of the cells that will cause it to wig out and become cancerous.

LostAngeles · 28th July 2004, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by drkitten
I don't think I understand your question. The radiation (which, contrary to popular belief can include alpha particles as well; think of inhaled radon for an example) can generally mess up any molecule in your body. It's not DNA or protein specific or anything like that -- heck, simply by delivering energy, it can heat a cup of water or cook cells into "food." (See also: microwave oven). Even if the cell isn't destroyed, changes can be introduced into the reproductive functioning of the cells that will cause it to wig out and become cancerous.

I think you pretty much answered it though.

The reproductive functioning wigging out is likely where I got the "DNA gets foobared" idea. I basically presumed that some kind of change was introduced so that when the cell replicated, it basically became cancerous.

LostAngeles · 28th July 2004, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by drkitten
... The radiation (which, contrary to popular belief can include alpha particles as well; think of inhaled radon for an example) ...

I needed to come back to that.

Aren't there twits in Montana or something in an old mine inhaling radon for its "health benefits" that are being "hidden by the FDA"?

drkitten · 28th July 2004, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LostAngeles
I needed to come back to that.

Aren't there twits in Montana or something in an old mine inhaling radon for its "health benefits" that are being "hidden by the FDA"?

Yes, there are. Presumably the radon level is low enough that it hasn't killed them en masse. We can discuss later whether that is a good or a bad thing.

28th July 2004, 11:52 AM	#1
LostAngeles Anti-WM Jihadist Join Date: May 2004 Location: Having a cup of tea. Posts: 10,159	Radiation Poisoning I'm trying to reaffirm my objection to a stupid plot point. When you walk into a radioactive zone without a suit, the particles (alpha or beta, I think) pass through you, taking out a few of your subatomic particles too. So as I understand it, this can knock out particles in your DNA strand, causing it to become unstable and either destroying the cell or in lesser doses cancer. Can anyone tell me if that's even close to being right or am I way the hell off? Is it the proteins it screws up or is it just the general foobaring of your molecules?
	__________________ "There is also a likelihood that the settlement will fall between two biomes, potentially hazardous if the player expects a peaceful oceanside meadow, without realizing the ocean is full of amphibious zombie whales." - Dwarf Fortress Wik

28th July 2004, 12:06 PM	#3
LostAngeles Anti-WM Jihadist Join Date: May 2004 Location: Having a cup of tea. Posts: 10,159	Quote: Originally posted by geni Not sure about the rest but alpha nd beta particles are not going to pass through you (ok some of the beta might). Alpha partis will be stoped by your skin and most of the beta particles will be absorbed by your body. So it's the gamma I'm thinking of then?
	__________________ "There is also a likelihood that the settlement will fall between two biomes, potentially hazardous if the player expects a peaceful oceanside meadow, without realizing the ocean is full of amphibious zombie whales." - Dwarf Fortress Wik

28th July 2004, 12:16 PM	#4
Benguin Too Chilled For The Anti-Homeopathy Illuminati Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,902	Yes, IIRC gamma is more of an EM wave Lead suits are for the gamma, and they'll stop the beta. Alpha can be stopped with a sheet of paper.
	__________________ It has been said cats have nine lives which, if true, makes them great candidates for experimentation. 100,000 medical doctors say go read this before quoting their articles. Probably. Voltaire "Atheism - the vice of a few intelligent people"

28th July 2004, 12:19 PM	#5
drkitten Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Wits' End Posts: 21,647	Re: Radiation Poisoning Quote: Originally posted by LostAngeles I'm trying to reaffirm my objection to a stupid plot point. When you walk into a radioactive zone without a suit, the particles (alpha or beta, I think) pass through you, taking out a few of your subatomic particles too. So as I understand it, this can knock out particles in your DNA strand, causing it to become unstable and either destroying the cell or in lesser doses cancer. Can anyone tell me if that's even close to being right or am I way the hell off? Is it the proteins it screws up or is it just the general foobaring of your molecules? I don't think I understand your question. The radiation (which, contrary to popular belief can include alpha particles as well; think of inhaled radon for an example) can generally mess up any molecule in your body. It's not DNA or protein specific or anything like that -- heck, simply by delivering energy, it can heat a cup of water or cook cells into "food." (See also: microwave oven). Even if the cell isn't destroyed, changes can be introduced into the reproductive functioning of the cells that will cause it to wig out and become cancerous.

28th July 2004, 12:25 PM	#6
LostAngeles Anti-WM Jihadist Join Date: May 2004 Location: Having a cup of tea. Posts: 10,159	Re: Re: Radiation Poisoning Quote: Originally posted by drkitten I don't think I understand your question. The radiation (which, contrary to popular belief can include alpha particles as well; think of inhaled radon for an example) can generally mess up any molecule in your body. It's not DNA or protein specific or anything like that -- heck, simply by delivering energy, it can heat a cup of water or cook cells into "food." (See also: microwave oven). Even if the cell isn't destroyed, changes can be introduced into the reproductive functioning of the cells that will cause it to wig out and become cancerous. I think you pretty much answered it though. The reproductive functioning wigging out is likely where I got the "DNA gets foobared" idea. I basically presumed that some kind of change was introduced so that when the cell replicated, it basically became cancerous.
	__________________ "There is also a likelihood that the settlement will fall between two biomes, potentially hazardous if the player expects a peaceful oceanside meadow, without realizing the ocean is full of amphibious zombie whales." - Dwarf Fortress Wik

28th July 2004, 12:00 PM	#2
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 26,640	Not sure about the rest but alpha nd beta particles are not going to pass through you (ok some of the beta might). Alpha partis will be stoped by your skin and most of the beta particles will be absorbed by your body.

28th July 2004, 12:26 PM	#7
LostAngeles Anti-WM Jihadist Join Date: May 2004 Location: Having a cup of tea. Posts: 10,159	Re: Re: Radiation Poisoning Quote: Originally posted by drkitten ... The radiation (which, contrary to popular belief can include alpha particles as well; think of inhaled radon for an example) ... I needed to come back to that. Aren't there twits in Montana or something in an old mine inhaling radon for its "health benefits" that are being "hidden by the FDA"?
	__________________ "There is also a likelihood that the settlement will fall between two biomes, potentially hazardous if the player expects a peaceful oceanside meadow, without realizing the ocean is full of amphibious zombie whales." - Dwarf Fortress Wik

28th July 2004, 01:22 PM	#8
drkitten Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Wits' End Posts: 21,647	Re: Re: Re: Radiation Poisoning Quote: Originally posted by LostAngeles I needed to come back to that. Aren't there twits in Montana or something in an old mine inhaling radon for its "health benefits" that are being "hidden by the FDA"? Yes, there are. Presumably the radon level is low enough that it hasn't killed them en masse. We can discuss later whether that is a good or a bad thing.