Free Kobe Bryant!

zenith-nadir · 2nd September 2004, 06:34 AM

Kobe is free...

Judge drops charge against Bryant - Wednesday, September 1, 2004

Now I dunno about you but if Kobe was not ultra-famous and ultra rich and just a Sanitation worker from New Jersey I don't think he would have walked... call me crazy.

Tmy · 2nd September 2004, 06:38 AM

Well I dont think the "she was a sanitation groupie" defense has EVER worked.

Rob Lister · 2nd September 2004, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zenith-nadir
Kobe is free...

Judge drops charge against Bryant - Wednesday, September 1, 2004

Now I dunno about you but if Kobe was not ultra-famous and ultra rich and just a Sanitation worker from New Jersey I don't think he would have walked... call me crazy.

Agreed but Mike Tyson was just as famous, just as rich, if not more so, and he did hard time.

Luke T. · 2nd September 2004, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zenith-nadir
Kobe is free...

Judge drops charge against Bryant - Wednesday, September 1, 2004

Now I dunno about you but if Kobe was not ultra-famous and ultra rich and just a Sanitation worker from New Jersey I don't think he would have walked... call me crazy.

Then again, he wouldn't have been in a hotel in Colorado with a perfect stranger, either.

Tmy · 2nd September 2004, 06:43 AM

Who says hes getting away wioth rape anyway?? Maybe shes getting away with a shakedown. Its obvious theres been a deal made tween Kobe and the girl.

zenith-nadir · 2nd September 2004, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Luke T.
Then again, he wouldn't have been in a hotel in Colorado, either.

Are you demeaning the sanitation workers of New Jersey?

I just feel that a married guy having sex with someone other than his wife and a $4,000,000 "forgiveness ring" says more to me about Kobe than his lawyers attempt to use the woman's entire sexual history to label her "a slut" or a "shakedown artist".

Rob Lister · 2nd September 2004, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tmy
Who says hes getting away wioth rape anyway?? Maybe shes getting away with a shakedown. Its obvious theres been a deal made tween Kobe and the girl.

No, it's not obvious that he made a deal with her. The deal was made between the state and Kobe because the girl refused to testify. The state could proceed without her testimony but would not likely prevail. The state could force her testimony but would be even less likely to prevail.

Even with the girl's willing testimony I don't think they could prevail. Did he do it? Only Ed knows for sure and he ain't postin' on it.

Rob Lister · 2nd September 2004, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zenith-nadir
Are you demeaning the sanitation workers of New Jersey?

I just feel that a married guy having sex with someone other than his wife and a $4,000,000 "forgiveness ring" says more to me about Kobe than his lawyers attempt to use the woman's entire sexual history to label her "a slut" or a "shakedown artist".

The ring has nothing to do with it.

The lawyers attempt to use the woman's history has nothing to do with it if that history is not not relevant. Some of it is -- so says the judge. Presumably he is unbiased and, because of rape shield laws, would not even begin to consider such history unless it impacted directly on the case.

Tmy · 2nd September 2004, 06:53 AM

I may not have Kobes cash, but Ive bought "Im sorry" gifts for doing alot less. ****, I had to buy flowers cause of my evil deed of going to play golf instead of some instead of escorting teh ball n chain to some coworker friend's stupid little kids birthday party.!!!

Now cheating, rape accusations, and humilating a wife on a national stage..... Im thinking flowers wouldnt cut it.

Tmy · 2nd September 2004, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rob Lister
No, it's not obvious that he made a deal with her. The deal was made between the state and Kobe because the girl refused to testify. The state could proceed without her testimony but would not likely prevail. The state could force her testimony but would be even less likely to prevail.

Even with the girl's willing testimony I don't think they could prevail. Did he do it? Only Ed knows for sure and he ain't postin' on it.

Of course there was a deal! Otherwise Kobe wouldntve come out with that foot n mouth statement afterwards that left him open to a big fat lawsuit. Which wont happen cause the payoff is in the works.

Rob Lister · 2nd September 2004, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tmy
Of course there was a deal! Otherwise Kobe wouldntve come out with that foot n mouth statement afterwards that left him open to a big fat lawsuit. Which wont happen cause the payoff is in the works.

It may be in the works but presumably Kobe's 'apology' cannot be used against him in a civil proceeding. If that's the 'deal' to which you are referring then I agree there is a deal.

Tmy · 2nd September 2004, 07:15 AM

He said it in a press release! Of course it could be used in a civil case.

Heres what happened. THe went to the lady and said, "look this sucks for everyone. If you drop the charges (ie refuse to testify) we'll give you a bunch of money, AND a 1/2 ass apology so you still come off as being wronged and your rep is spared. Everyone wins cause we avoid a nasty trial(s) and drop out of the media spotlight."

Skeptic · 2nd September 2004, 09:22 AM

I dunno... the view that the rich and famous "get away with it" isn't too well supported, in my view.

Yes, OJ and Kobe walked--but Ken Lay, Mike Tyson, and Martha Stewart got jail, to name a few. If anything, I'll bet that if you check the "inmate population" among celebrities, you'll find it's pretty high. Also, unlike the regular schmoe, people might be tempted to accuse them for monetary or other reasons.

If Kobe "got off" because he's a celebrity, it seems to me he "got off" from an accusation he might never have faced in the first place if he wasn't a celebrity.

Luke T. · 2nd September 2004, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeptic
I dunno... the view that the rich and famous "get away with it" isn't too well supported, in my view.

Yes, OJ and Kobe walked--but Ken Lay, Mike Tyson, and Martha Stewart got jail, to name a few. If anything, I'll bet that if you check the "inmate population" among celebrities, you'll find it's pretty high. Also, unlike the regular schmoe, people might be tempted to accuse them for monetary or other reasons.

If Kobe "got off" because he's a celebrity, it seems to me he "got off" from an accusation he might never have faced in the first place if he wasn't a celebrity.

Well the darker side of the picture is that there are probably innoncent men in prison who didn't have the money to defend their innocence.

Skeptic · 2nd September 2004, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Luke T.
Well the darker side of the picture is that there are probably innoncent men in prison who didn't have the money to defend their innocence.

I didn't say there aren't. I just said that while celebrities don't suffer from lack of money to defend themselves, they do seem to attract quite a bit of letigation.

varwoche · 2nd September 2004, 09:35 AM

What we know for a fact is that that early on the judge scolded the prosecution for case flimsiness.

I suppose we will never know if the leaks are true, if the alledged victim had other sexual partners on the days before and after the incident. As well, there were leaks about her mental stability.

It seems to me that justice was done. I am biased though, as a Lakers/Kobe fan.

Cleon · 2nd September 2004, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeptic

Yes, OJ and Kobe walked--but Ken Lay, Mike Tyson, and Martha Stewart got jail, to name a few.

Erm, Ken Lay hasn't even been convicted yet. In fact, now that I think on it, I don't think his trial has even started.

Martha Stewart might've been sentenced to prison, but she has yet to see the inside of a jail cell.

I think it's beyond doubt that there is a different standard of "justice" for the rich and famous versus poor nobodies. Let's face it, not everyone can afford to hire Alan Dershowitz or Johnny Cochran, and the fact is the quality of your representation definitely has an effect on whether you're convicted and how much time you do.

FWIW, I think Kobe was/is getting a shakedown; the prosecution's case is pretty flimsy, and the "victim" sure didn't wait too long before filing the civil suit. It's not proof of anything, I know, but just my opinion.

crimresearch · 2nd September 2004, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeptic
I dunno... the view that the rich and famous "get away with it" isn't too well supported, in my view.

Yes, OJ and Kobe walked--but Ken Lay, Mike Tyson, and Martha Stewart got jail, to name a few. If anything, I'll bet that if you check the "inmate population" among celebrities, you'll find it's pretty high. Also, unlike the regular schmoe, people might be tempted to accuse them for monetary or other reasons.

If Kobe "got off" because he's a celebrity, it seems to me he "got off" from an accusation he might never have faced in the first place if he wasn't a celebrity.

Being rich isn't a guarantee of getting away with crime.

On the other hand, I'll hazard a guess that of the 1% of the American population in prison, that the rich are, shall we say, slightly underrepresented?

2nd September 2004, 06:34 AM	#1
zenith-nadir Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,500	Free Kobe Bryant! Kobe is free... Judge drops charge against Bryant - Wednesday, September 1, 2004 Now I dunno about you but if Kobe was not ultra-famous and ultra rich and just a Sanitation worker from New Jersey I don't think he would have walked... call me crazy.
	__________________ The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled. -- Plutarch

2nd September 2004, 06:38 AM	#2
Tmy Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Republic of Massachusetts Posts: 6,489	Well I dont think the "she was a sanitation groupie" defense has EVER worked.
	__________________ "Common sense is something that skeptics can and should do without." -shanek

2nd September 2004, 06:38 AM	#3
Rob Lister Suspended Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 8,523	Re: Free Kobe Bryant! Quote: Originally posted by zenith-nadir Kobe is free... Judge drops charge against Bryant - Wednesday, September 1, 2004 Now I dunno about you but if Kobe was not ultra-famous and ultra rich and just a Sanitation worker from New Jersey I don't think he would have walked... call me crazy. Agreed but Mike Tyson was just as famous, just as rich, if not more so, and he did hard time.

2nd September 2004, 06:38 AM	#4
Luke T. Guest Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 14,759	Re: Free Kobe Bryant! Quote: Originally posted by zenith-nadir Kobe is free... Judge drops charge against Bryant - Wednesday, September 1, 2004 Now I dunno about you but if Kobe was not ultra-famous and ultra rich and just a Sanitation worker from New Jersey I don't think he would have walked... call me crazy. Then again, he wouldn't have been in a hotel in Colorado with a perfect stranger, either.
Luke T. Guest Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 14,759

2nd September 2004, 06:43 AM	#5
Tmy Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Republic of Massachusetts Posts: 6,489	Who says hes getting away wioth rape anyway?? Maybe shes getting away with a shakedown. Its obvious theres been a deal made tween Kobe and the girl.
	__________________ "Common sense is something that skeptics can and should do without." -shanek

2nd September 2004, 06:46 AM	#6
zenith-nadir Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,500	Re: Re: Free Kobe Bryant! Quote: Originally posted by Luke T. Then again, he wouldn't have been in a hotel in Colorado, either. Are you demeaning the sanitation workers of New Jersey? I just feel that a married guy having sex with someone other than his wife and a $4,000,000 "forgiveness ring" says more to me about Kobe than his lawyers attempt to use the woman's entire sexual history to label her "a slut" or a "shakedown artist".
	__________________ The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled. -- Plutarch

2nd September 2004, 06:49 AM	#7
Rob Lister Suspended Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 8,523	Quote: Originally posted by Tmy Who says hes getting away wioth rape anyway?? Maybe shes getting away with a shakedown. Its obvious theres been a deal made tween Kobe and the girl. No, it's not obvious that he made a deal with her. The deal was made between the state and Kobe because the girl refused to testify. The state could proceed without her testimony but would not likely prevail. The state could force her testimony but would be even less likely to prevail. Even with the girl's willing testimony I don't think they could prevail. Did he do it? Only Ed knows for sure and he ain't postin' on it.

2nd September 2004, 06:53 AM	#8
Rob Lister Suspended Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 8,523	Re: Re: Re: Free Kobe Bryant! Quote: Originally posted by zenith-nadir Are you demeaning the sanitation workers of New Jersey? I just feel that a married guy having sex with someone other than his wife and a $4,000,000 "forgiveness ring" says more to me about Kobe than his lawyers attempt to use the woman's entire sexual history to label her "a slut" or a "shakedown artist". The ring has nothing to do with it. The lawyers attempt to use the woman's history has nothing to do with it if that history is not not relevant. Some of it is -- so says the judge. Presumably he is unbiased and, because of rape shield laws, would not even begin to consider such history unless it impacted directly on the case.

2nd September 2004, 06:57 AM	#10
Tmy Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Republic of Massachusetts Posts: 6,489	Quote: Originally posted by Rob Lister No, it's not obvious that he made a deal with her. The deal was made between the state and Kobe because the girl refused to testify. The state could proceed without her testimony but would not likely prevail. The state could force her testimony but would be even less likely to prevail. Even with the girl's willing testimony I don't think they could prevail. Did he do it? Only Ed knows for sure and he ain't postin' on it. Of course there was a deal! Otherwise Kobe wouldntve come out with that foot n mouth statement afterwards that left him open to a big fat lawsuit. Which wont happen cause the payoff is in the works.
	__________________ "Common sense is something that skeptics can and should do without." -shanek

2nd September 2004, 07:08 AM	#11
Rob Lister Suspended Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 8,523	Quote: Originally posted by Tmy Of course there was a deal! Otherwise Kobe wouldntve come out with that foot n mouth statement afterwards that left him open to a big fat lawsuit. Which wont happen cause the payoff is in the works. It may be in the works but presumably Kobe's 'apology' cannot be used against him in a civil proceeding. If that's the 'deal' to which you are referring then I agree there is a deal.

2nd September 2004, 07:15 AM	#12
Tmy Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Republic of Massachusetts Posts: 6,489	He said it in a press release! Of course it could be used in a civil case. Heres what happened. THe went to the lady and said, "look this sucks for everyone. If you drop the charges (ie refuse to testify) we'll give you a bunch of money, AND a 1/2 ass apology so you still come off as being wronged and your rep is spared. Everyone wins cause we avoid a nasty trial(s) and drop out of the media spotlight."
	__________________ "Common sense is something that skeptics can and should do without." -shanek

2nd September 2004, 09:22 AM	#13
Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Behind the chessboard Posts: 18,361	I dunno... the view that the rich and famous "get away with it" isn't too well supported, in my view. Yes, OJ and Kobe walked--but Ken Lay, Mike Tyson, and Martha Stewart got jail, to name a few. If anything, I'll bet that if you check the "inmate population" among celebrities, you'll find it's pretty high. Also, unlike the regular schmoe, people might be tempted to accuse them for monetary or other reasons. If Kobe "got off" because he's a celebrity, it seems to me he "got off" from an accusation he might never have faced in the first place if he wasn't a celebrity.

2nd September 2004, 09:27 AM	#14
Luke T. Guest Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 14,759	Quote: Originally posted by Skeptic I dunno... the view that the rich and famous "get away with it" isn't too well supported, in my view. Yes, OJ and Kobe walked--but Ken Lay, Mike Tyson, and Martha Stewart got jail, to name a few. If anything, I'll bet that if you check the "inmate population" among celebrities, you'll find it's pretty high. Also, unlike the regular schmoe, people might be tempted to accuse them for monetary or other reasons. If Kobe "got off" because he's a celebrity, it seems to me he "got off" from an accusation he might never have faced in the first place if he wasn't a celebrity. Well the darker side of the picture is that there are probably innoncent men in prison who didn't have the money to defend their innocence.
Luke T. Guest Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 14,759

2nd September 2004, 09:28 AM	#15
Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Behind the chessboard Posts: 18,361	Quote: Originally posted by Luke T. Well the darker side of the picture is that there are probably innoncent men in prison who didn't have the money to defend their innocence. I didn't say there aren't. I just said that while celebrities don't suffer from lack of money to defend themselves, they do seem to attract quite a bit of letigation.

2nd September 2004, 09:35 AM	#16
varwoche Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 7,234	What we know for a fact is that that early on the judge scolded the prosecution for case flimsiness. I suppose we will never know if the leaks are true, if the alledged victim had other sexual partners on the days before and after the incident. As well, there were leaks about her mental stability. It seems to me that justice was done. I am biased though, as a Lakers/Kobe fan.
	__________________ To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot (and/or Fat Jack)

2nd September 2004, 09:37 AM	#17
Cleon King of the Pod People Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 20,536	Quote: Originally posted by Skeptic Yes, OJ and Kobe walked--but Ken Lay, Mike Tyson, and Martha Stewart got jail, to name a few. Erm, Ken Lay hasn't even been convicted yet. In fact, now that I think on it, I don't think his trial has even started. Martha Stewart might've been sentenced to prison, but she has yet to see the inside of a jail cell. I think it's beyond doubt that there is a different standard of "justice" for the rich and famous versus poor nobodies. Let's face it, not everyone can afford to hire Alan Dershowitz or Johnny Cochran, and the fact is the quality of your representation definitely has an effect on whether you're convicted and how much time you do. FWIW, I think Kobe was/is getting a shakedown; the prosecution's case is pretty flimsy, and the "victim" sure didn't wait too long before filing the civil suit. It's not proof of anything, I know, but just my opinion.
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

2nd September 2004, 10:28 AM	#18
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618	Quote: Originally posted by Skeptic I dunno... the view that the rich and famous "get away with it" isn't too well supported, in my view. Yes, OJ and Kobe walked--but Ken Lay, Mike Tyson, and Martha Stewart got jail, to name a few. If anything, I'll bet that if you check the "inmate population" among celebrities, you'll find it's pretty high. Also, unlike the regular schmoe, people might be tempted to accuse them for monetary or other reasons. If Kobe "got off" because he's a celebrity, it seems to me he "got off" from an accusation he might never have faced in the first place if he wasn't a celebrity. Being rich isn't a guarantee of getting away with crime. On the other hand, I'll hazard a guess that of the 1% of the American population in prison, that the rich are, shall we say, slightly underrepresented?
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618