A question for the hardest of hardcore atheists.

1inChrist · 7th September 2004, 01:23 AM

If you knew you had exactly 1 minute to live, would you repent to the Lord so you could enter Heaven?

Maledict · 7th September 2004, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 1inChrist
If you knew you had exactly 1 minute to live, would you repent to the Lord so you could enter Heaven?

Which lord? God? G-D? Shiva? Jehova? Yahweh? Ed? I can't repent to something that I do not think has evidence to substantiate that it exists.

The Cats Venm · 7th September 2004, 01:32 AM

No

No, because God does not exist.
No, because everything I've heard tells me it wouldn't work anyway.
No, because I can't imagine an eternal afterlife that would appeal.
No, because the very idea of judgement is rediculous.
No, because I'm sick of being asked such a dumb question.

Zep · 7th September 2004, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 1inChrist
If you knew you had exactly 1 minute to live, would you repent to the Lord so you could enter Heaven?

Which heaven would that be? There seem to be so many on offer currently... There's even jokes about tall brick walls in heaven to keep the separate denominations apart so they don't fight.

And what's the alternatives? I'm sure you are thinking of "Hell" as the only alternative to "Heaven", but that's blinkered thinking, surely. What about the concept of simply dying and ceasing to exist, except as pleasant memories in your descendants' minds. Or your "spirit" walking the earth unseen. There's so many alternatives people have imagined already, so who's to say that your idea of "heaven" is the same as anyone else's at all?

And let's, for sake of argument, allow that this last-minute repentance is real, and you receive complete divine forgiveness regardless of your whole life's indiscretions. Would that not mean there's years yet for me to be indiscrete? You see, I don't plan on dying any time soon, so why should I worry yet?

Anyway the chances are I'll never know when my "last minute" will start (it could be right now as I type - the building might suddenly collapse on me right now.......{looks up, listens}........nope, that wasn't it

). And I don't know how long this repentance process takes (clearly less than 60 seconds, it seems). Maybe it's just that split-second before I die...and I think I can manage that if I have to.

Well, overall I'd say it seems the whole idea you pose has issues that need to be resolved a lot better before you think it is viable. Work on it, let us know what you think!

Oleron · 7th September 2004, 02:05 AM

I'll assume you're talking about a protestant christian god.
No I would not repent.
Any god that would be fooled by such a cheap meaningless gesture isn't worth repenting for.

If this god exists then he made me intelligent, with a curious and inquiring mind. The least he can do is treat me like an adult instead of playing silly semantic games.

1inChrist · 7th September 2004, 02:29 AM

?????????????????????????????????????????????????

Let me rephrase this.............

If you had 1 minute left to live would you repent to the Lord just incase He is real and Hell does exist.

Flo · 7th September 2004, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oleron

Any god that would be fooled by such a cheap meaningless gesture isn't worth repenting for.

What Oleron said.

bjornart · 7th September 2004, 02:35 AM

Who knows. Having one minute to live and being aware of the fact might drive anyone insane.

Wudang · 7th September 2004, 02:35 AM

Let me ask you ....
If you had 1 minute left to live would you repent to the Invisible Pink Unicorn just in case He is real and Hell does exist?

And to answer your question:
No, I'd spend it saying goodbye to my wife.

1inChrist · 7th September 2004, 02:37 AM

Why not repent to Him, what do you have to lose?

1inChrist · 7th September 2004, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wudang
Let me ask you ....
If you had 1 minute left to live would you repent to the Invisible Pink Unicorn just in case He is real and Hell does exist?

And to answer your question:
No, I'd spend it saying goodbye to my wife.

Invisible pink unicorn? How can something be pink and invisible? Sorry I have never heard of invisble pink unicorn that sends people to Hell.

Flo · 7th September 2004, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Why not repent to Him, what do you have to lose?

Are you here to debate a philosophical point, or to preach ?

The Cats Venm · 7th September 2004, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Why not repent to Him, what do you have to lose?

The last minute of your life.

Zep · 7th September 2004, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Why not repent to Him, what do you have to lose?

Ho hum - Pascal's Wager has been done to death here a few times over. Please go look for it, then report back.

wittgenst3in · 7th September 2004, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 1inChrist

Let me rephrase this.............

If you had 1 minute left to live would you repent to the Lord just incase He is real and Hell does exist.

Can you please define exactly what you mean by 'repent'?

If you just mean being sorry for bad things that I've done, then I'm 'repentent' now. The notion of god dosen't enter into it.

The Cats Venm · 7th September 2004, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Sorry I have never heard of invisble pink unicorn that sends people to Hell.

You have now.

Start repenting, the IPU demands at least 5 minutes of your life, not neccesarily at the end. That will give you time to start on all the other gods. Wouldn't want to miss one - just in case.

Zep · 7th September 2004, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Invisible pink unicorn? How can something be pink and invisible? Sorry I have never heard of invisble pink unicorn that sends people to Hell.

Wow. You have the beginnings of a skeptical thought right there! Well done!

Now we take another step, OK?

By what means can a non-believer determine if God exists? Is there ANYTHING he could measure - touch, mass, heat, transparency, whatever - that would physically demonstrate God's personal existance to a non-believer?

Stimpson J. Cat · 7th September 2004, 02:50 AM

1inChrist,

Quote:

Let me rephrase this.............

If you had 1 minute left to live would you repent to the Lord just incase He is real and Hell does exist.

First of all, I cannot repent to a God I don't believe exists. Even if I thought there was some non-zero chance of the Christian God existing, and that my repenting to him might get me into Heaven, since I don't actually believe that this is the case, my repentance would not be sincere, so what would be the point?

Second, I do not consider Christian mythology to be any more likely to be correct than any other mythology man has dreamed up. I am no more concerned that I will go to the Christian Hell when I die, than I am that will go to Valhalla.

Let me ask you something. If somebody came up to you and told you that they could give you testicular cancer with the power of their mind, and demanded that you give them 1 dollar, or they will do so, would you give them the dollar?

You probably think that the above question is rather silly, but I assure you that, as an atheist, your question sounds just as silly to me.

Dr. Stupid

Wudang · 7th September 2004, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 1inChrist
Invisible pink unicorn? How can something be pink and invisible? Sorry I have never heard of invisble pink unicorn that sends people to Hell.

Old argument, see also the references to Pascal's Wager, which your question is a variant of. There are a number of so-called proofs of God for which you can replace the word "God" with the phrase "Invisible Pink Unicorn" without changing the argument. Therefore such "proofs" are also "proofs" of the IUP.

Piscivore · 7th September 2004, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 1inChrist
?????????????????????????????????????????????????

I think, 1, that your confusion stems from making a common error that christians often make about what "atheist" means; you seem to think that "atheists" are just in "rebellion" against a god that is assumed to exist. This is not the case. There are several recent threads addressing this issue, you would do well to look for them.

My answer; no. For all the reasons the others have said. I might as well appeal to the Tralfamadorians- both they, and the "god" of the bible are characters in fiction.

Ceinwyn · 7th September 2004, 03:15 AM

Only if he showed me, in one minute, why I should.

Ceinwyn · 7th September 2004, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Piscivore
My answer; no. For all the reasons the others have said. I might as well appeal to the Tralfamadorians- both they, and the "god" of the bible are characters in fiction.

Aha, another Vonnegut fan. Very good.

CFLarsen · 7th September 2004, 03:22 AM

I wouldn't spend my last minute on Earth wondering if I had anything to be sorry for.

I would spend it drinking the last glass of Amarone, looking at Canaletto for the last time, while listening to Bach.

And smile.

Lord Emsworth · 7th September 2004, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 1inChrist
If you knew you had exactly 1 minute to live, would you repent to the Lord so you could enter Heaven?

No, I don't think so.

Would you reject Christ if I made up something about people being thown to hell for being a Chrsitian?

wittgenst3in · 7th September 2004, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CFLarsen

I would spend it drinking the last glass of Amarone, looking at Canaletto for the last time, while listening to Bach.

And smile.

Nice.

I'd choose Beethoven's 7th Symphony.

Ceinwyn · 7th September 2004, 03:30 AM

I do love when the fundiies--I mean trolls show up. They're so interesting.

CFLarsen · 7th September 2004, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wittgenst3in
Nice.

Thank you.

Quote:

Originally posted by wittgenst3in
I'd choose Beethoven's 7th Symphony.

Well, that's a contendah. Which movement?

Brian the Snail · 7th September 2004, 03:32 AM

Pffttt...amateurs. Look, I'm the hardest of the hardcore atheists, and I know what I would do.

I'd kick God in the nuts.

Donks · 7th September 2004, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 1inChrist

If you had 1 minute left to live would you repent to the Lord just incase He is real and Hell does exist.

Conversion through fear...
Would you believe in God if there was no penatly for not doing so? In other words, would you believe in God if you ended up in heaven depending on how you lived your life and not if you "repented"?

Cleopatra · 7th September 2004, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Which lord? God? G-D? Shiva? Jehova? Yahweh? Ed? I can't repent to something that I do not think has evidence to substantiate that it exists.

It's amazing how much energy all of you spend in order to address trollish posts but I found this reply really interesting because it demonstrates that most of you when it comes to Religion you do not really know of what you are talking about.

Buddha, Christ, Jehova, Yahweh, Zeus are names people use to describe the same feeling or the same experience. The fact that there are as many words as the languages in order to describe love, joy, fear doesn't mean that those experiences do not exist.

So,this logic is totally fallacious and personally I cannot distinguish it from religious fundamentalism.

CWL · 7th September 2004, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 1inChrist
?????????????????????????????????????????????????

Let me rephrase this.............

If you had 1 minute left to live would you repent to the Lord just incase He is real and Hell does exist.

Let me put rephrase the answers given thus far.

There are and have been more gods invented/imagined than the one that you are referring to.

Why repent to your god, "He" is - as far as has been proven thus far - no less real than the other ones.

Would you repent and ask Thor and Odin to let you into Valhalla if you had 1 minute left to live, just in case they are real and the deathrealm of Hel exists?

Brian the Snail · 7th September 2004, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cleopatra
Buddha, Christ, Jehova, Yahweh, Zeus are names people use to describe the same feeling or the same experience. The fact that there are as many words as the languages in order to describe love, joy, fear doesn't mean that those experiences do not exist.

But how does one repent to a feeling or an experience? And what would be the point?

neutrino_cannon · 7th September 2004, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 1inChrist
If you knew you had exactly 1 minute to live, would you repent to the Lord so you could enter Heaven?

If I knew that I would expire within the next sixty seconds, I would first fill the air with curses at Lovecraft or whatever crank author had put me in such a regrettable position.

As an interesting aside, what if I'm moving at relativistic speeds, whose reference time is used to determine my last remaining minute?

With that out of the way (or more accurately, into the way), the next question would become that of avoiding my demise within the next sixty seconds. If it involves emptying a full magazine from any submachine gun into nearby guards operating a bond-esque deliberately slow execution device, I'm all for it.

Assuming however (and I'm good at assuming), that I can do nothing about my impending death, I'd probably say something I thought was witty through all the adrenaline to anyone who happened to be passing by.

The thought of the Lord would not be particularly pressing, since I don't believe in him. If I did believe in Him/Her(which seems more likely somehow), and also believed that a ritual repenting of my assorted sins could bestow upon me eternal partying time with the Almighty, then I would have done so long ago.

The fact that it is possible that there is a being who looks unfavorably upon those that don't lick his boots, follow his every command, and generally act like His groupies does not much perturb me. I find it equally possible that there is a deity who hates groveling and despises those who repent, especially when they never pented in the first place.

In short, I do not repent to the Lord because I do not consider it a valuable expenditure of my time. If the last moments of my life were imminent, I would be even less inclined to do so because the laws of supply and demand just made it imperative that my life be enjoyed to its fullest. Brown nosing to some unverifiable being in the hopes that it will somehow improve my standing in the cosmic hereafter is an activity that receives very low priority under such circumstances.

edit:

D'oh!

Welcome to the forum 1inChrist

-The insomniac, amiable and always impressionable master cannon

Ceinwyn · 7th September 2004, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cleopatra
It's amazing how much energy all of you spend in order to address trollish posts but I found this reply really interesting because it demonstrates that most of you when it comes to Religion you do not really know of what you are talking about.

Buddha, Christ, Jehova, Yahweh, Zeus are names people use to describe the same feeling or the same experience. The fact that there are as many words as the languages in order to describe love, joy, fear doesn't mean that those experiences do not exist.

So,this logic is totally fallacious and personally I cannot distinguish it from religious fundamentalism.

Oh, okay Cleo. How about you get a bunch of Christians, Buddhists, Muslims and Jews in a room together and tell them how they're all having the same experience.

That'll work, right?

wittgenst3in · 7th September 2004, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CFLarsen
Well, that's a contendah. Which movement?

Uhh..... I don't know

The only recording I've got isn't split into tracks, and I'm not sure. (And I've been through 2 record stores trying to find a better version, plenty of 9's but no one likes the 7th.)

6:29-7:29 out of the 39 minutes of my recording is probably what I'd choose in one of those unlikely scenarios that involve exactly one minute to live, and access to a well stocked stereo.

Cleopatra · 7th September 2004, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ceinwyn
Oh, okay Cleo. How about you get a bunch of Christians, Buddhists, Muslims and Jews in a room together and tell them how they're all having the same experience.

That'll work, right?

Probably you haven't heard much about the dialogue that is taking place among different religions lately.

Ceinwyn · 7th September 2004, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cleopatra
Probably you haven't heard much about the dialogue that is taking place among different religions lately.

I guess not. Are they all deciding on one god now? Which god did they pick? Is Jesus going to be a runner-up, with a sash and a trophy that says "Best Saviour for the last 2000 years"?

Zep · 7th September 2004, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cleopatra
Probably you haven't heard much about the dialogue that is taking place among different religions lately.

But alas, not among some major religionists...

Cleopatra · 7th September 2004, 04:12 AM

Ceinwyn:

You have to decide if you wish to discuss seriously, when you take up this decision I will address your post. Untill then I suggest you address the posts of the troll who started the thread especially if you feel that he is within your calibre.

Cleopatra · 7th September 2004, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zep
But alas, not among some major religionists...

Hmmm wrong, unless you do not consider the Pope to be one of the major religionists. I mentioned the dialogue between religions to point another very common fallacious reasoning of this forum; that people from diffirent religions automatically are not aware of the fact that in reality they believe in the same notion. Of course one can encounter the same fallacious reasoning in the Politics Forum where people seem to believe that today people are involved in wars because of religion where in reality religion is just the pretense.

I expected better from people who claim that approach critically the opinions that are en vogue...

7th September 2004, 01:23 AM	#1
1inChrist Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,362	A question for the hardest of hardcore atheists. If you knew you had exactly 1 minute to live, would you repent to the Lord so you could enter Heaven?

7th September 2004, 01:31 AM	#2
Maledict Muse Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: City of Dis Posts: 520	Re: A question for the hardest of hardcore atheists. Quote: Originally posted by 1inChrist If you knew you had exactly 1 minute to live, would you repent to the Lord so you could enter Heaven? Which lord? God? G-D? Shiva? Jehova? Yahweh? Ed? I can't repent to something that I do not think has evidence to substantiate that it exists.
	__________________ Formerly known as "RabbiSatan" "Never regret thy fall from grace, O' spirit of Icarian flight, for the greatest tragedy of them all to face, is to never feel the burning bright" \| Ca.org Sketchbook \| Live Stream \| Website \|

7th September 2004, 01:32 AM	#3
The Cats Venm Thinker Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 168	No No, because God does not exist. No, because everything I've heard tells me it wouldn't work anyway. No, because I can't imagine an eternal afterlife that would appeal. No, because the very idea of judgement is rediculous. No, because I'm sick of being asked such a dumb question.
The Cats Venm Thinker Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 168	__________________ Sweet Zombie Jesus!

7th September 2004, 01:57 AM	#4
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985	Re: A question for the hardest of hardcore atheists. Quote: Originally posted by 1inChrist If you knew you had exactly 1 minute to live, would you repent to the Lord so you could enter Heaven? Which heaven would that be? There seem to be so many on offer currently... There's even jokes about tall brick walls in heaven to keep the separate denominations apart so they don't fight. And what's the alternatives? I'm sure you are thinking of "Hell" as the only alternative to "Heaven", but that's blinkered thinking, surely. What about the concept of simply dying and ceasing to exist, except as pleasant memories in your descendants' minds. Or your "spirit" walking the earth unseen. There's so many alternatives people have imagined already, so who's to say that your idea of "heaven" is the same as anyone else's at all? And let's, for sake of argument, allow that this last-minute repentance is real, and you receive complete divine forgiveness regardless of your whole life's indiscretions. Would that not mean there's years yet for me to be indiscrete? You see, I don't plan on dying any time soon, so why should I worry yet? Anyway the chances are I'll never know when my "last minute" will start (it could be right now as I type - the building might suddenly collapse on me right now.......{looks up, listens}........nope, that wasn't it ). And I don't know how long this repentance process takes (clearly less than 60 seconds, it seems). Maybe it's just that split-second before I die...and I think I can manage that if I have to. Well, overall I'd say it seems the whole idea you pose has issues that need to be resolved a lot better before you think it is viable. Work on it, let us know what you think!
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985

7th September 2004, 02:34 AM	#7
Flo Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Massongy, France Posts: 2,812	Quote: Originally posted by Oleron Any god that would be fooled by such a cheap meaningless gesture isn't worth repenting for. What Oleron said.
	__________________ "Let me explain the order of things for you. There's the aristocracy, the upper class, middle class, working class, dumb animals, waiters, creeping things, head lice, people who eat packet soup, and then you." (Chef)

7th September 2004, 02:05 AM	#5
Oleron Muse Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Belfast, NI. Posts: 948	I'll assume you're talking about a protestant christian god. No I would not repent. Any god that would be fooled by such a cheap meaningless gesture isn't worth repenting for. If this god exists then he made me intelligent, with a curious and inquiring mind. The least he can do is treat me like an adult instead of playing silly semantic games.

7th September 2004, 02:29 AM	#6
1inChrist Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,362	????????????????????????????????????????????????? Let me rephrase this............. If you had 1 minute left to live would you repent to the Lord just incase He is real and Hell does exist.

7th September 2004, 02:35 AM	#8
bjornart Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,395	Who knows. Having one minute to live and being aware of the fact might drive anyone insane.
bjornart Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,395	__________________ Well, I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU LIKE TO BELIEVE, GODDAMMIT! I DEAL IN THE FACTS! -Cecil Adams

7th September 2004, 02:35 AM	#9
Wudang BOFH Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Sheffield Posts: 8,246	Let me ask you .... If you had 1 minute left to live would you repent to the Invisible Pink Unicorn just in case He is real and Hell does exist? And to answer your question: No, I'd spend it saying goodbye to my wife.
	__________________ Aphorism: Subjects most likely to be declared inappropriate for humor are the ones most in need of it. -epepke

7th September 2004, 02:37 AM	#10
1inChrist Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,362	Why not repent to Him, what do you have to lose?

7th September 2004, 02:38 AM	#11
1inChrist Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,362	Quote: Originally posted by Wudang Let me ask you .... If you had 1 minute left to live would you repent to the Invisible Pink Unicorn just in case He is real and Hell does exist? And to answer your question: No, I'd spend it saying goodbye to my wife. Invisible pink unicorn? How can something be pink and invisible? Sorry I have never heard of invisble pink unicorn that sends people to Hell.

7th September 2004, 02:38 AM	#12
Flo Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Massongy, France Posts: 2,812	Quote: Originally posted by 1inChrist Why not repent to Him, what do you have to lose? Are you here to debate a philosophical point, or to preach ?
	__________________ "Let me explain the order of things for you. There's the aristocracy, the upper class, middle class, working class, dumb animals, waiters, creeping things, head lice, people who eat packet soup, and then you." (Chef)

7th September 2004, 02:39 AM	#13
The Cats Venm Thinker Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 168	Quote: Originally posted by 1inChrist Why not repent to Him, what do you have to lose? The last minute of your life.
The Cats Venm Thinker Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 168	__________________ Sweet Zombie Jesus!

7th September 2004, 02:41 AM	#14
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985	Quote: Originally posted by 1inChrist Why not repent to Him, what do you have to lose? Ho hum - Pascal's Wager has been done to death here a few times over. Please go look for it, then report back.
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985

7th September 2004, 02:42 AM	#15
wittgenst3in Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 380	Quote: Originally posted by 1inChrist Let me rephrase this............. If you had 1 minute left to live would you repent to the Lord just incase He is real and Hell does exist. Can you please define exactly what you mean by 'repent'? If you just mean being sorry for bad things that I've done, then I'm 'repentent' now. The notion of god dosen't enter into it.

7th September 2004, 02:47 AM	#17
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985	Quote: Originally posted by 1inChrist Invisible pink unicorn? How can something be pink and invisible? Sorry I have never heard of invisble pink unicorn that sends people to Hell. Wow. You have the beginnings of a skeptical thought right there! Well done! Now we take another step, OK? By what means can a non-believer determine if God exists? Is there ANYTHING he could measure - touch, mass, heat, transparency, whatever - that would physically demonstrate God's personal existance to a non-believer?
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985

7th September 2004, 02:50 AM	#18
Stimpson J. Cat Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 1,833	1inChrist, Quote: Let me rephrase this............. If you had 1 minute left to live would you repent to the Lord just incase He is real and Hell does exist. First of all, I cannot repent to a God I don't believe exists. Even if I thought there was some non-zero chance of the Christian God existing, and that my repenting to him might get me into Heaven, since I don't actually believe that this is the case, my repentance would not be sincere, so what would be the point? Second, I do not consider Christian mythology to be any more likely to be correct than any other mythology man has dreamed up. I am no more concerned that I will go to the Christian Hell when I die, than I am that will go to Valhalla. Let me ask you something. If somebody came up to you and told you that they could give you testicular cancer with the power of their mind, and demanded that you give them 1 dollar, or they will do so, would you give them the dollar? You probably think that the above question is rather silly, but I assure you that, as an atheist, your question sounds just as silly to me. Dr. Stupid
	__________________ A poke in the eye makes Baby Jesus cry.

7th September 2004, 02:54 AM	#19
Wudang BOFH Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Sheffield Posts: 8,246	Quote: Originally posted by 1inChrist Invisible pink unicorn? How can something be pink and invisible? Sorry I have never heard of invisble pink unicorn that sends people to Hell. Old argument, see also the references to Pascal's Wager, which your question is a variant of. There are a number of so-called proofs of God for which you can replace the word "God" with the phrase "Invisible Pink Unicorn" without changing the argument. Therefore such "proofs" are also "proofs" of the IUP.
	__________________ Aphorism: Subjects most likely to be declared inappropriate for humor are the ones most in need of it. -epepke

7th September 2004, 03:04 AM	#20
Piscivore Smelling fishy Join Date: May 2004 Location: Home is wherever I'm with you Posts: 26,470	Quote: Originally posted by 1inChrist ????????????????????????????????????????????????? I think, 1, that your confusion stems from making a common error that christians often make about what "atheist" means; you seem to think that "atheists" are just in "rebellion" against a god that is assumed to exist. This is not the case. There are several recent threads addressing this issue, you would do well to look for them. My answer; no. For all the reasons the others have said. I might as well appeal to the Tralfamadorians- both they, and the "god" of the bible are characters in fiction.
	__________________ Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Take his fish away and tell him he's lucky just to be alive, and he'll figure out how to catch another one for you to take tomorrow. "...untrustworthy obnoxious twerp." - CFLarsen

7th September 2004, 03:15 AM	#21
Ceinwyn Muse Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: North Northwest Posts: 675	Only if he showed me, in one minute, why I should.
	__________________ "Skeptikinites can tune their power so carefully that it exactly counterbalances the force being exerted by the telekinite." --Tricky

7th September 2004, 03:17 AM	#22
Ceinwyn Muse Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: North Northwest Posts: 675	Quote: Originally posted by Piscivore My answer; no. For all the reasons the others have said. I might as well appeal to the Tralfamadorians- both they, and the "god" of the bible are characters in fiction. Aha, another Vonnegut fan. Very good.
	__________________ "Skeptikinites can tune their power so carefully that it exactly counterbalances the force being exerted by the telekinite." --Tricky

7th September 2004, 03:22 AM	#23
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,804	I wouldn't spend my last minute on Earth wondering if I had anything to be sorry for. I would spend it drinking the last glass of Amarone, looking at Canaletto for the last time, while listening to Bach. And smile.
	__________________ SkepticReport.com

7th September 2004, 03:25 AM	#24
Lord Emsworth Je ne suis pas une de vos élèves Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Through the Cables and the Underground ... Posts: 2,827	Re: A question for the hardest of hardcore atheists. Quote: Originally posted by 1inChrist If you knew you had exactly 1 minute to live, would you repent to the Lord so you could enter Heaven? No, I don't think so. Would you reject Christ if I made up something about people being thown to hell for being a Chrsitian?

7th September 2004, 03:27 AM	#25
wittgenst3in Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 380	Quote: Originally posted by CFLarsen I would spend it drinking the last glass of Amarone, looking at Canaletto for the last time, while listening to Bach. And smile. Nice. I'd choose Beethoven's 7th Symphony.

7th September 2004, 03:30 AM	#26
Ceinwyn Muse Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: North Northwest Posts: 675	I do love when the fundiies--I mean trolls show up. They're so interesting.
	__________________ "Skeptikinites can tune their power so carefully that it exactly counterbalances the force being exerted by the telekinite." --Tricky

7th September 2004, 03:31 AM	#27
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,804	Quote: Originally posted by wittgenst3in Nice. Thank you. Quote: Originally posted by wittgenst3in I'd choose Beethoven's 7th Symphony. Well, that's a contendah. Which movement?
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7th September 2004, 03:32 AM	#28
Brian the Snail Muse Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 963	Pffttt...amateurs. Look, I'm the hardest of the hardcore atheists, and I know what I would do. I'd kick God in the nuts.
Brian the Snail Muse Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 963

7th September 2004, 03:35 AM	#29
Donks vBulletin God Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 3,321	Quote: Originally posted by 1inChrist If you had 1 minute left to live would you repent to the Lord just incase He is real and Hell does exist. Conversion through fear... Would you believe in God if there was no penatly for not doing so? In other words, would you believe in God if you ended up in heaven depending on how you lived your life and not if you "repented"?
Donks vBulletin God Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 3,321

7th September 2004, 03:39 AM	#30
Cleopatra Diva Caissa Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Athens-Greece Posts: 9,272	Re: Re: A question for the hardest of hardcore atheists. Quote: Which lord? God? G-D? Shiva? Jehova? Yahweh? Ed? I can't repent to something that I do not think has evidence to substantiate that it exists. It's amazing how much energy all of you spend in order to address trollish posts but I found this reply really interesting because it demonstrates that most of you when it comes to Religion you do not really know of what you are talking about. Buddha, Christ, Jehova, Yahweh, Zeus are names people use to describe the same feeling or the same experience. The fact that there are as many words as the languages in order to describe love, joy, fear doesn't mean that those experiences do not exist. So,this logic is totally fallacious and personally I cannot distinguish it from religious fundamentalism.
	__________________ Whiskey is for drinking. Water is for fighting.~ Mark Twain.

7th September 2004, 03:42 AM	#31
CWL Funkateer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 1,370	Quote: Originally posted by 1inChrist ????????????????????????????????????????????????? Let me rephrase this............. If you had 1 minute left to live would you repent to the Lord just incase He is real and Hell does exist. Let me put rephrase the answers given thus far. There are and have been more gods invented/imagined than the one that you are referring to. Why repent to your god, "He" is - as far as has been proven thus far - no less real than the other ones. Would you repent and ask Thor and Odin to let you into Valhalla if you had 1 minute left to live, just in case they are real and the deathrealm of Hel exists?
	__________________ "All is not true which resembles truth" - Swedish Code for Judges (probably composed around 1540) "The obscurely spoken is the obscurely thought" - Swedish poet Esaias Tegnér (1782 - 1846) "Precisely because of human fallibility, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" - Carl Sagan

7th September 2004, 03:43 AM	#32
Brian the Snail Muse Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 963	Re: Re: Re: A question for the hardest of hardcore atheists. Quote: Originally posted by Cleopatra Buddha, Christ, Jehova, Yahweh, Zeus are names people use to describe the same feeling or the same experience. The fact that there are as many words as the languages in order to describe love, joy, fear doesn't mean that those experiences do not exist. But how does one repent to a feeling or an experience? And what would be the point?
Brian the Snail Muse Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 963

7th September 2004, 03:44 AM	#33
neutrino_cannon Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Seventh circle of limbo Posts: 2,573	Quote: Originally posted by 1inChrist If you knew you had exactly 1 minute to live, would you repent to the Lord so you could enter Heaven? If I knew that I would expire within the next sixty seconds, I would first fill the air with curses at Lovecraft or whatever crank author had put me in such a regrettable position. As an interesting aside, what if I'm moving at relativistic speeds, whose reference time is used to determine my last remaining minute? With that out of the way (or more accurately, into the way), the next question would become that of avoiding my demise within the next sixty seconds. If it involves emptying a full magazine from any submachine gun into nearby guards operating a bond-esque deliberately slow execution device, I'm all for it. Assuming however (and I'm good at assuming), that I can do nothing about my impending death, I'd probably say something I thought was witty through all the adrenaline to anyone who happened to be passing by. The thought of the Lord would not be particularly pressing, since I don't believe in him. If I did believe in Him/Her(which seems more likely somehow), and also believed that a ritual repenting of my assorted sins could bestow upon me eternal partying time with the Almighty, then I would have done so long ago. The fact that it is possible that there is a being who looks unfavorably upon those that don't lick his boots, follow his every command, and generally act like His groupies does not much perturb me. I find it equally possible that there is a deity who hates groveling and despises those who repent, especially when they never pented in the first place. In short, I do not repent to the Lord because I do not consider it a valuable expenditure of my time. If the last moments of my life were imminent, I would be even less inclined to do so because the laws of supply and demand just made it imperative that my life be enjoyed to its fullest. Brown nosing to some unverifiable being in the hopes that it will somehow improve my standing in the cosmic hereafter is an activity that receives very low priority under such circumstances. edit: D'oh! Welcome to the forum 1inChrist -The insomniac, amiable and always impressionable master cannon
	__________________ "Man would have been too happy, if, limiting himself to the visible objects which interested him, he had employed, to perfect his real sciences, his laws, his morals, his education, one half-the efforts he has put into his researches on the Divinity" -Percy Bysshe Shelley, The Necessity of Atheism

7th September 2004, 03:46 AM	#34
Ceinwyn Muse Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: North Northwest Posts: 675	Re: Re: Re: A question for the hardest of hardcore atheists. Quote: Originally posted by Cleopatra It's amazing how much energy all of you spend in order to address trollish posts but I found this reply really interesting because it demonstrates that most of you when it comes to Religion you do not really know of what you are talking about. Buddha, Christ, Jehova, Yahweh, Zeus are names people use to describe the same feeling or the same experience. The fact that there are as many words as the languages in order to describe love, joy, fear doesn't mean that those experiences do not exist. So,this logic is totally fallacious and personally I cannot distinguish it from religious fundamentalism. Oh, okay Cleo. How about you get a bunch of Christians, Buddhists, Muslims and Jews in a room together and tell them how they're all having the same experience. That'll work, right?
	__________________ "Skeptikinites can tune their power so carefully that it exactly counterbalances the force being exerted by the telekinite." --Tricky

7th September 2004, 03:53 AM	#35
wittgenst3in Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 380	Quote: Originally posted by CFLarsen Well, that's a contendah. Which movement? Uhh..... I don't know The only recording I've got isn't split into tracks, and I'm not sure. (And I've been through 2 record stores trying to find a better version, plenty of 9's but no one likes the 7th.) 6:29-7:29 out of the 39 minutes of my recording is probably what I'd choose in one of those unlikely scenarios that involve exactly one minute to live, and access to a well stocked stereo.

7th September 2004, 04:00 AM	#36
Cleopatra Diva Caissa Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Athens-Greece Posts: 9,272	Re: Re: Re: Re: A question for the hardest of hardcore atheists. Quote: Originally posted by Ceinwyn Oh, okay Cleo. How about you get a bunch of Christians, Buddhists, Muslims and Jews in a room together and tell them how they're all having the same experience. That'll work, right? Probably you haven't heard much about the dialogue that is taking place among different religions lately.
	__________________ Whiskey is for drinking. Water is for fighting.~ Mark Twain.