Faith-based list of applicants.

thaiboxerken · 17th September 2004, 01:47 PM

Well, I have been hunting for a list of applicants denied and approved for faith-based funding. However, I have not been able to find anything. I also asked help from Americans United for Separation of Church and State, but they said that it is a very hard thing to find and that they have been working on a list for quite some time. I wonder why it's so hard to find this information.

LostAngeles · 17th September 2004, 02:24 PM

Can't you just make a FOIA request to the agency who would handle these things?

17th September 2004, 03:07 PM

It's now called: "Faith Based and Community Initiatives"
http://www.whitehouse.gov/government/fbci/

This story has a short list of FOUR successes.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea.../20040601.html

Additional groping around yielded this up.
http://www.hhs.gov/fbci/funding.html

$43 million was awarded through the President's Compassion Capital Fund
http://www.whitehouse.gov/goodbye/c2...eeef2f563.html
This one breaks it down by recipients.

'Mentoring of Children of Prisoners' is mentiones as getting $45.6 million.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/goodbye/e6...b6e837693.html
This one breaks it down by recipients.

'Access to Recovery' got $100 million
http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2004pres/20040803c.html
This one breaks it down by state, to some degree.

I can't seem to find a thorough federal audit of where the money has gone over the last four years, either. It would probably take two or three years to complete. It's quite possible that a federal audit of all the money, and where the respective state offices have sent it, and what has been done with it, has not been done.

Unofficial audits and opinions
http://christianity.about.com/librar...y/aa021601.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/char_choi4.htm

merphie · 17th September 2004, 06:51 PM

Grants are highly regulated and you would need to contact the grant administrators.

17th September 2004, 11:56 PM

No, you would need to move congress to enact and fund a general audit, because the only people the recipients of these grants have to answer questions to is a government audit. It will take a bigger stink than has been raised so far to get that to happen.

It's a fairly sure thing that some money will always be 'misapropriated' in any government cash hand-out.

merphie · 18th September 2004, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by evildave
No, you would need to move congress to enact and fund a general audit, because the only people the recipients of these grants have to answer questions to is a government audit. It will take a bigger stink than has been raised so far to get that to happen.

It's a fairly sure thing that some money will always be 'misapropriated' in any government cash hand-out.

No, my job is funded by a grant. You can contact the the grant administrator. I don't know what they could tell you, but it would be the place to get the information.

thaiboxerken · 18th September 2004, 09:59 AM

It's interesting to see some discrimination being practiced by the very same faith-based initiatives that are supposed to end discrimination against certain groups. Nice.

18th September 2004, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by merphie
No, my job is funded by a grant. You can contact the the grant administrator. I don't know what they could tell you, but it would be the place to get the information.

Well, let me just drop everything and telephone thousands of 'faith based' grant recipients and ask them, shall I? Not a single one would ever fail to return a call or provide me with every bit of truthful information I need, to comb through in my copious spare time.

Naturally, I would have to hire a team of people, and rent an office with phones and computets. Salaries and benefits. Probably a million dollars a year minimum over several years, with skilled accountants and lawyers.

But OH WAIT, isn't that the GAO's job? Why, yes it is. People who are sitting on their butts whom we tax payers are paying salaries to are supposed to be DOING THAT JOB and providing HONEST reports. Or they're already doing just that investigation, and we don't have a public product for it, yet.

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d02337.pdf

Quote:

How have FBOs performed as compared
to secular providers of social services?
The literature that we reviewed provides no information on
which to assess the effectiveness of FBOs as providers of
social services.

merphie · 18th September 2004, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by evildave
Well, let me just drop everything and telephone thousands of 'faith based' grant recipients and ask them, shall I? Not a single one would ever fail to return a call or provide me with every bit of truthful information I need, to comb through in my copious spare time.

Naturally, I would have to hire a team of people, and rent an office with phones and computets. Salaries and benefits. Probably a million dollars a year minimum over several years, with skilled accountants and lawyers.

But OH WAIT, isn't that the GAO's job? Why, yes it is. People who are sitting on their butts whom we tax payers are paying salaries to are supposed to be DOING THAT JOB and providing HONEST reports. Or they're already doing just that investigation, and we don't have a public product for it, yet.

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d02337.pdf

Where did I say grant recipients? I said the Grant administrator.

corplinx · 18th September 2004, 02:20 PM

Gotta love how all these calls for audits rose up after Bush renamed Clinton's charitable choice program.

Still though, we must have accountability to make sure that the first amendment isn't being crossed. Its nice to have you rabid anti-bush people put some momentum behind this. Keep up the good work, try to keep it up even when Bush isn't in office and you might be on your way to a skeptical view of government.

18th September 2004, 03:12 PM

Quote:

President George W. Bush's Faith-Based and Community Initiative represents a fresh start and bold new approach to government's role in helping those in need. Too often the government has ignored or impeded the efforts of faith-based and community organizations. Their compassionate efforts to improve their communities have been needlessly and improperly inhibited by bureaucratic red tape and restrictions placed on funding.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/government/fbci/

Are you saying it only has Dubya's name on it because Clinton started it, and Dubya coopted it? Or is it Dubya's idea and baby, here?

Going back in history, it's still the President's plan.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0010129-2.html
An executive order signed by Dubya.

It's a 'bold' and experimental plan. Where are the controls? What are the metrics? Or is everything Bush does automatically golden and correct to the so-called skeptica who lick his oh-so-tasy boots?

merphie · 18th September 2004, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by evildave
http://www.whitehouse.gov/government/fbci/

Are you saying it only has Dubya's name on it because Clinton started it, and Dubya coopted it? Or is it Dubya's idea and baby, here?

Going back in history, it's still the President's plan.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0010129-2.html
An executive order signed by Dubya.

It's a 'bold' and experimental plan. Where are the controls? What are the metrics? Or is everything Bush does automatically golden and correct to the so-called skeptica who lick his oh-so-tasy boots?

Did you even look at the opposing argument?

Started by Clinton

It appears your anti-bush, pro Lurch is blinding you again.

More Details

17th September 2004, 01:47 PM	#1
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 20,965	Faith-based list of applicants. Well, I have been hunting for a list of applicants denied and approved for faith-based funding. However, I have not been able to find anything. I also asked help from Americans United for Separation of Church and State, but they said that it is a very hard thing to find and that they have been working on a list for quite some time. I wonder why it's so hard to find this information.
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

17th September 2004, 02:24 PM	#2
LostAngeles Anti-WM Jihadist Join Date: May 2004 Location: Having a cup of tea. Posts: 10,159	Can't you just make a FOIA request to the agency who would handle these things?
	__________________ "There is also a likelihood that the settlement will fall between two biomes, potentially hazardous if the player expects a peaceful oceanside meadow, without realizing the ocean is full of amphibious zombie whales." - Dwarf Fortress Wik

17th September 2004, 03:07 PM	#3
evildave Guest Posts: n/a	It's now called: "Faith Based and Community Initiatives" http://www.whitehouse.gov/government/fbci/ This story has a short list of FOUR successes. http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea.../20040601.html Additional groping around yielded this up. http://www.hhs.gov/fbci/funding.html $43 million was awarded through the President's Compassion Capital Fund http://www.whitehouse.gov/goodbye/c2...eeef2f563.html This one breaks it down by recipients. 'Mentoring of Children of Prisoners' is mentiones as getting $45.6 million. http://www.whitehouse.gov/goodbye/e6...b6e837693.html This one breaks it down by recipients. 'Access to Recovery' got $100 million http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2004pres/20040803c.html This one breaks it down by state, to some degree. I can't seem to find a thorough federal audit of where the money has gone over the last four years, either. It would probably take two or three years to complete. It's quite possible that a federal audit of all the money, and where the respective state offices have sent it, and what has been done with it, has not been done. Unofficial audits and opinions http://christianity.about.com/librar...y/aa021601.htm http://www.religioustolerance.org/char_choi4.htm
evildave Guest Posts: n/a

17th September 2004, 06:51 PM	#4
merphie Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,890	Grants are highly regulated and you would need to contact the grant administrators.
	__________________ "They that can give up Essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin "Don't argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

17th September 2004, 11:56 PM	#5
evildave Guest Posts: n/a	No, you would need to move congress to enact and fund a general audit, because the only people the recipients of these grants have to answer questions to is a government audit. It will take a bigger stink than has been raised so far to get that to happen. It's a fairly sure thing that some money will always be 'misapropriated' in any government cash hand-out.
evildave Guest Posts: n/a

18th September 2004, 08:14 AM	#6
merphie Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,890	Quote: Originally posted by evildave No, you would need to move congress to enact and fund a general audit, because the only people the recipients of these grants have to answer questions to is a government audit. It will take a bigger stink than has been raised so far to get that to happen. It's a fairly sure thing that some money will always be 'misapropriated' in any government cash hand-out. No, my job is funded by a grant. You can contact the the grant administrator. I don't know what they could tell you, but it would be the place to get the information.
	__________________ "They that can give up Essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin "Don't argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

18th September 2004, 09:59 AM	#7
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 20,965	It's interesting to see some discrimination being practiced by the very same faith-based initiatives that are supposed to end discrimination against certain groups. Nice.
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

18th September 2004, 12:32 PM	#8
evildave Guest Posts: n/a	Quote: Originally posted by merphie No, my job is funded by a grant. You can contact the the grant administrator. I don't know what they could tell you, but it would be the place to get the information. Well, let me just drop everything and telephone thousands of 'faith based' grant recipients and ask them, shall I? Not a single one would ever fail to return a call or provide me with every bit of truthful information I need, to comb through in my copious spare time. Naturally, I would have to hire a team of people, and rent an office with phones and computets. Salaries and benefits. Probably a million dollars a year minimum over several years, with skilled accountants and lawyers. But OH WAIT, isn't that the GAO's job? Why, yes it is. People who are sitting on their butts whom we tax payers are paying salaries to are supposed to be DOING THAT JOB and providing HONEST reports. Or they're already doing just that investigation, and we don't have a public product for it, yet. http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d02337.pdf Quote: How have FBOs performed as compared to secular providers of social services? The literature that we reviewed provides no information on which to assess the effectiveness of FBOs as providers of social services.
evildave Guest Posts: n/a

18th September 2004, 01:08 PM	#9
merphie Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,890	Quote: Originally posted by evildave Well, let me just drop everything and telephone thousands of 'faith based' grant recipients and ask them, shall I? Not a single one would ever fail to return a call or provide me with every bit of truthful information I need, to comb through in my copious spare time. Naturally, I would have to hire a team of people, and rent an office with phones and computets. Salaries and benefits. Probably a million dollars a year minimum over several years, with skilled accountants and lawyers. But OH WAIT, isn't that the GAO's job? Why, yes it is. People who are sitting on their butts whom we tax payers are paying salaries to are supposed to be DOING THAT JOB and providing HONEST reports. Or they're already doing just that investigation, and we don't have a public product for it, yet. http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d02337.pdf Where did I say grant recipients? I said the Grant administrator.
	__________________ "They that can give up Essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin "Don't argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

18th September 2004, 02:20 PM	#10
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	Gotta love how all these calls for audits rose up after Bush renamed Clinton's charitable choice program. Still though, we must have accountability to make sure that the first amendment isn't being crossed. Its nice to have you rabid anti-bush people put some momentum behind this. Keep up the good work, try to keep it up even when Bush isn't in office and you might be on your way to a skeptical view of government.
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	__________________ In the tradition of "Stop Silvia!" Stop Hal Bidlack: http://skepticalcommunity.com/forums...hp?f=1&t=28671

18th September 2004, 03:12 PM	#11
evildave Guest Posts: n/a	Quote: President George W. Bush's Faith-Based and Community Initiative represents a fresh start and bold new approach to government's role in helping those in need. Too often the government has ignored or impeded the efforts of faith-based and community organizations. Their compassionate efforts to improve their communities have been needlessly and improperly inhibited by bureaucratic red tape and restrictions placed on funding. http://www.whitehouse.gov/government/fbci/ Are you saying it only has Dubya's name on it because Clinton started it, and Dubya coopted it? Or is it Dubya's idea and baby, here? Going back in history, it's still the President's plan. http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0010129-2.html An executive order signed by Dubya. It's a 'bold' and experimental plan. Where are the controls? What are the metrics? Or is everything Bush does automatically golden and correct to the so-called skeptica who lick his oh-so-tasy boots?
evildave Guest Posts: n/a

18th September 2004, 03:53 PM	#12
merphie Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,890	Quote: Originally posted by evildave http://www.whitehouse.gov/government/fbci/ Are you saying it only has Dubya's name on it because Clinton started it, and Dubya coopted it? Or is it Dubya's idea and baby, here? Going back in history, it's still the President's plan. http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0010129-2.html An executive order signed by Dubya. It's a 'bold' and experimental plan. Where are the controls? What are the metrics? Or is everything Bush does automatically golden and correct to the so-called skeptica who lick his oh-so-tasy boots? Did you even look at the opposing argument? Started by Clinton It appears your anti-bush, pro Lurch is blinding you again. More Details
	__________________ "They that can give up Essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin "Don't argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."