Iraq Rationale Poll

Tex · 22nd September 2004, 08:53 AM

Although it's still a bloody mess, some of the initial fog of war has cleared and we've had some time to contemplate the situation. So what do you think was the Bush administration's primary reason for its dubious decision to invade?

fishbob · 22nd September 2004, 11:12 AM

Other - Saddam tried to assinate his Daddy.

aerocontrols · 22nd September 2004, 11:16 AM

You're poll is flawed in that it doesn't allow us to pick more than one reason.

Also no Planeta Diez option.

Tex · 22nd September 2004, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by aerocontrols
You're poll is flawed in that it doesn't allow us to pick more than one reason.

Also no Planeta Diez option.

Yeah, I'm sure there was more than one reason, but I was curious to see what people thought was the most significant.

Tex · 22nd September 2004, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishbob
Other - Saddam tried to assinate his Daddy.

Heh, I should have included that one.

Grammatron · 22nd September 2004, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishbob
Other - Saddam tried to assinate his Daddy.

I was always curious about that one; do people think it's A-OK that a foreign leader tried to assassinate our former President?

Ian Osborne · 22nd September 2004, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Grammatron
I was always curious about that one; do people think it's A-OK that a foreign leader tried to assassinate our former President?

Absolutely not, but do you favour an investigation and possible criminal trials regarding the US assassination attempts on Castro and the successful murder of Alende?

circuit slave · 22nd September 2004, 12:06 PM

Once again, there aren't enough choices in the poll-- only ten to choose.

Grammatron · 22nd September 2004, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ian Osborne
Absolutely not, but do you favour an investigation and possible criminal trials regarding the US assassination attempts on Castro and the successful murder of Alende?

In what court and under who's law?

Ian Osborne · 22nd September 2004, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Grammatron
In what court and under who's law?

Would you favour such a trial anywhere?

Hutch · 22nd September 2004, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Grammatron
I was always curious about that one; do people think it's A-OK that a foreign leader tried to assassinate our former President?

Well, no, it was definitely something that would get one removed from a Christmas Card list...

But worth 8,000 casualties and $200B? Even Daddy Bush might consider himself overvalued.

Interesting poll, but there are really two answers; the primary reason for invading Iraq (I believe Bush was absolutely sure there was WMD's there) and the actual historical result of the war (I voted the geopolitical one).

The reasons at the start of any conflict aren't always what they finish......

Grammatron · 22nd September 2004, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ian Osborne
Would you favour such a trial anywhere?

It would depend on the answers to my question.

Grammatron · 22nd September 2004, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hutch
Well, no, it was definitely something that would get one removed from a Christmas Card list... But worth 8,000 casualties and $200B? Even Daddy Bush might consider himself overvalued.

Do you think some/any action should be taken against such an attempt? If so what kind of action?

Ian Osborne · 22nd September 2004, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Grammatron
It would depend on the answers to my question.

Once again, are there any possible answers to your question that would provoke a positive response from yourself? In other words, Is there anywhere, under any law that you would accept for such a trial?

Grammatron · 22nd September 2004, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ian Osborne
Once again, are there any possible answers to your question that would provoke a positive response from yourself? In other words, Is there anywhere, under any law that you would accept for such a trial?

The possibility exist but I would need to know specifics before I can provide a definite yes.

Ian Osborne · 22nd September 2004, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Grammatron
The possibility exist but I would need to know specifics before I can provide a definite yes.

So you accept in principle the people who attempted to kill Castro and did kill Alende have a case to answer?

Grammatron · 22nd September 2004, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ian Osborne
So you accept in principle the people who attempted to kill Castro and did kill Alende have a case to answer?

Not necessarily, like I said it would depend on specifics.

Although personally, I would cry if Castro caught a couple in the head.

Ian Osborne · 22nd September 2004, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Grammatron
Not necessarily, like I said it would depend on specifics.

But the pertinent 'specifics' are the crimes, not the judicial process.

Quote:

Although personally, I would cry if Castro caught a couple in the head.

So you feel, at least in principle, that murdering a head of state you dislike is acceptable?

Grammatron · 22nd September 2004, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ian Osborne
But the pertinent 'specifics' are the crimes, not the judicial process.

Can you rephrase that please?

Quote:

So you feel, at least in principle, that murdering a head of state you dislike is acceptable?

Not quite but I am sure many people who dies in Castro's re-education facilities would be happy to see him go.

Ian Osborne · 22nd September 2004, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Grammatron
Can you rephrase that please?

Why?

Quote:

Not quite but I am sure many people who dies in Castro's re-education facilities would be happy to see him go.

Although far from perfect, Castro is far more benign than many dictators who enjoy American support.

Grammatron · 22nd September 2004, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ian Osborne
Why?

I don't quite understand the question is the reason.

Quote:

Although far from perfect, Castro is far more benign than many dictators who enjoy American support.

That doesn't make his victims any happier.

Ian Osborne · 22nd September 2004, 02:41 PM

What I'm interested in is why you're so reluctant to condemn assassinations or attempted assassinations conducted by or on behalf of the US government. I get the impression if I were to offer scenarios whereby the perpetrators could face trial, eg. in the Hague or before an American court, you would find fault with the specifics of the suggestion when in actual fact, what you object to is the idea that these Americans should answer for their crimes just like those America seeks to bring to justice elsewhere. Once again, is there any scenario you can think of where putting these people on trial would be the correct thing to do?

Grammatron · 22nd September 2004, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ian Osborne
What I'm interested in is why you're so reluctant to condemn assassinations or attempted assassinations conducted by or on behalf of the US government. I get the impression if I were to offer scenarios whereby the perpetrators could face trial, eg. in the Hague or before an American court, you would find fault with the specifics of the suggestion when in actual fact, what you object to is the idea that these Americans should answer for their crimes just like those America seeks to bring to justice elsewhere. Once again, is there any scenario you can think of where putting these people on trial would be the correct thing to do?

Because I view Castro and Bush Sr. a differently.

Ian Osborne · 22nd September 2004, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Grammatron
Because I view Castro and Bush Sr. a differently.

And Alende?

epepke · 22nd September 2004, 03:23 PM

Some days, I think I'm the only person on the planet who remembers Bush as having made statements about wanting to get rid of Saddam Hussein during his 2000 campaign.

Grammatron · 22nd September 2004, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ian Osborne
And Alende?

I'd have to think about that one.

peptoabysmal · 22nd September 2004, 10:32 PM

Gee, you left out the "Because Bush's wife beats him and he had to take it out on someone" option.

Grammatron · 22nd September 2004, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by epepke
Some days, I think I'm the only person on the planet who remembers Bush as having made statements about wanting to get rid of Saddam Hussein during his 2000 campaign.

No surprise there. We wanted him gone since Gulf War I. There was several resolution to support Iraqi National Congress or whatever it was called which basicly meant to recognize them as a government when they take out Saddam.

22nd September 2004, 08:53 AM	#1
Tex Scholar Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 100	Iraq Rationale Poll Although it's still a bloody mess, some of the initial fog of war has cleared and we've had some time to contemplate the situation. So what do you think was the Bush administration's primary reason for its dubious decision to invade?
Tex Scholar Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 100

22nd September 2004, 11:12 AM	#2
fishbob Seasonally Disaffected Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chilly Undieville Posts: 5,667	Other - Saddam tried to assinate his Daddy.
	__________________ When you believe in things you don't understand, then you suffer . . . " - Stevie Wonder "Stupidity - a callow indifference to facts or data" - Stuart Firestein -neuroscientist. I hate bigots.

22nd September 2004, 11:16 AM	#3
aerocontrols Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,445	You're poll is flawed in that it doesn't allow us to pick more than one reason. Also no Planeta Diez option.
	__________________ Misunderestimated in 2000. Unredefeated in 2004. My dog does his tricks. My roomate's dog tries to escape the kitchen. We call you to be a people of manners, principles, honour, and purity; to reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling's, and trading with interest. Source

22nd September 2004, 11:32 AM	#4
Tex Scholar Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 100	Quote: Originally posted by aerocontrols You're poll is flawed in that it doesn't allow us to pick more than one reason. Also no Planeta Diez option. Yeah, I'm sure there was more than one reason, but I was curious to see what people thought was the most significant.
Tex Scholar Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 100

22nd September 2004, 11:33 AM	#5
Tex Scholar Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 100	Quote: Originally posted by fishbob Other - Saddam tried to assinate his Daddy. Heh, I should have included that one.
Tex Scholar Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 100

22nd September 2004, 11:55 AM	#6
Grammatron Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,446	Quote: Originally posted by fishbob Other - Saddam tried to assinate his Daddy. I was always curious about that one; do people think it's A-OK that a foreign leader tried to assassinate our former President?
Grammatron Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,446	__________________ Private Information, Do not read this!

22nd September 2004, 12:06 PM	#7
Ian Osborne JREF Kid Tagger Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Wiltshire Posts: 6,383	Quote: Originally posted by Grammatron I was always curious about that one; do people think it's A-OK that a foreign leader tried to assassinate our former President? Absolutely not, but do you favour an investigation and possible criminal trials regarding the US assassination attempts on Castro and the successful murder of Alende?
	__________________ "Faith without doubt leads to moral arrogance, the eternal pratfall of the religiously convinced" - Joe Klein, Time magazine "The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." - Carl Sagan

22nd September 2004, 12:06 PM	#8
circuit slave Thinker Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 149	Once again, there aren't enough choices in the poll-- only ten to choose.
circuit slave Thinker Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 149

22nd September 2004, 12:20 PM	#9
Grammatron Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,446	Quote: Originally posted by Ian Osborne Absolutely not, but do you favour an investigation and possible criminal trials regarding the US assassination attempts on Castro and the successful murder of Alende? In what court and under who's law?
Grammatron Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,446	__________________ Private Information, Do not read this!

22nd September 2004, 12:25 PM	#10
Ian Osborne JREF Kid Tagger Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Wiltshire Posts: 6,383	Quote: Originally posted by Grammatron In what court and under who's law? Would you favour such a trial anywhere?
	__________________ "Faith without doubt leads to moral arrogance, the eternal pratfall of the religiously convinced" - Joe Klein, Time magazine "The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." - Carl Sagan

22nd September 2004, 12:33 PM	#11
Hutch A broken man on a Halifax pier, the last of Barrett's Privateers Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: About 7 Miles from the Saturn 5B Posts: 6,536	Quote: Originally posted by Grammatron I was always curious about that one; do people think it's A-OK that a foreign leader tried to assassinate our former President? Well, no, it was definitely something that would get one removed from a Christmas Card list... But worth 8,000 casualties and $200B? Even Daddy Bush might consider himself overvalued. Interesting poll, but there are really two answers; the primary reason for invading Iraq (I believe Bush was absolutely sure there was WMD's there) and the actual historical result of the war (I voted the geopolitical one). The reasons at the start of any conflict aren't always what they finish......
	__________________ If sheer righteous fury could accomplish anything worthwhile, Wolverines would have inherited the Galaxy long ago." -Web DuHavel, David Weber's "Honorverse" Series

22nd September 2004, 12:50 PM	#12
Grammatron Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,446	Quote: Originally posted by Ian Osborne Would you favour such a trial anywhere? It would depend on the answers to my question.
Grammatron Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,446	__________________ Private Information, Do not read this!

22nd September 2004, 12:53 PM	#13
Grammatron Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,446	Quote: Originally posted by Hutch Well, no, it was definitely something that would get one removed from a Christmas Card list... But worth 8,000 casualties and $200B? Even Daddy Bush might consider himself overvalued. Do you think some/any action should be taken against such an attempt? If so what kind of action?
Grammatron Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,446	__________________ Private Information, Do not read this!

22nd September 2004, 01:21 PM	#14
Ian Osborne JREF Kid Tagger Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Wiltshire Posts: 6,383	Quote: Originally posted by Grammatron It would depend on the answers to my question. Once again, are there any possible answers to your question that would provoke a positive response from yourself? In other words, Is there anywhere, under any law that you would accept for such a trial?
	__________________ "Faith without doubt leads to moral arrogance, the eternal pratfall of the religiously convinced" - Joe Klein, Time magazine "The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." - Carl Sagan

22nd September 2004, 01:27 PM	#15
Grammatron Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,446	Quote: Originally posted by Ian Osborne Once again, are there any possible answers to your question that would provoke a positive response from yourself? In other words, Is there anywhere, under any law that you would accept for such a trial? The possibility exist but I would need to know specifics before I can provide a definite yes.
Grammatron Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,446	__________________ Private Information, Do not read this!

		0	0%
Voters: 0. You may not vote on this poll

22nd September 2004, 01:32 PM	#16
Ian Osborne JREF Kid Tagger Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Wiltshire Posts: 6,383	Quote: Originally posted by Grammatron The possibility exist but I would need to know specifics before I can provide a definite yes. So you accept in principle the people who attempted to kill Castro and did kill Alende have a case to answer?
	__________________ "Faith without doubt leads to moral arrogance, the eternal pratfall of the religiously convinced" - Joe Klein, Time magazine "The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." - Carl Sagan

22nd September 2004, 01:46 PM	#17
Grammatron Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,446	Quote: Originally posted by Ian Osborne So you accept in principle the people who attempted to kill Castro and did kill Alende have a case to answer? Not necessarily, like I said it would depend on specifics. Although personally, I would cry if Castro caught a couple in the head.
Grammatron Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,446	__________________ Private Information, Do not read this!

22nd September 2004, 01:54 PM	#18
Ian Osborne JREF Kid Tagger Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Wiltshire Posts: 6,383	Quote: Originally posted by Grammatron Not necessarily, like I said it would depend on specifics. But the pertinent 'specifics' are the crimes, not the judicial process. Quote: Although personally, I would cry if Castro caught a couple in the head. So you feel, at least in principle, that murdering a head of state you dislike is acceptable?
	__________________ "Faith without doubt leads to moral arrogance, the eternal pratfall of the religiously convinced" - Joe Klein, Time magazine "The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." - Carl Sagan

22nd September 2004, 01:57 PM	#19
Grammatron Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,446	Quote: Originally posted by Ian Osborne But the pertinent 'specifics' are the crimes, not the judicial process. Can you rephrase that please? Quote: So you feel, at least in principle, that murdering a head of state you dislike is acceptable? Not quite but I am sure many people who dies in Castro's re-education facilities would be happy to see him go.
Grammatron Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,446	__________________ Private Information, Do not read this!

22nd September 2004, 02:19 PM	#20
Ian Osborne JREF Kid Tagger Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Wiltshire Posts: 6,383	Quote: Originally posted by Grammatron Can you rephrase that please? Why? Quote: Not quite but I am sure many people who dies in Castro's re-education facilities would be happy to see him go. Although far from perfect, Castro is far more benign than many dictators who enjoy American support.
	__________________ "Faith without doubt leads to moral arrogance, the eternal pratfall of the religiously convinced" - Joe Klein, Time magazine "The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." - Carl Sagan

22nd September 2004, 02:30 PM	#21
Grammatron Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,446	Quote: Originally posted by Ian Osborne Why? I don't quite understand the question is the reason. Quote: Although far from perfect, Castro is far more benign than many dictators who enjoy American support. That doesn't make his victims any happier.
Grammatron Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,446	__________________ Private Information, Do not read this!

22nd September 2004, 02:41 PM	#22
Ian Osborne JREF Kid Tagger Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Wiltshire Posts: 6,383	What I'm interested in is why you're so reluctant to condemn assassinations or attempted assassinations conducted by or on behalf of the US government. I get the impression if I were to offer scenarios whereby the perpetrators could face trial, eg. in the Hague or before an American court, you would find fault with the specifics of the suggestion when in actual fact, what you object to is the idea that these Americans should answer for their crimes just like those America seeks to bring to justice elsewhere. Once again, is there any scenario you can think of where putting these people on trial would be the correct thing to do?
	__________________ "Faith without doubt leads to moral arrogance, the eternal pratfall of the religiously convinced" - Joe Klein, Time magazine "The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." - Carl Sagan

22nd September 2004, 03:06 PM	#23
Grammatron Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,446	Quote: Originally posted by Ian Osborne What I'm interested in is why you're so reluctant to condemn assassinations or attempted assassinations conducted by or on behalf of the US government. I get the impression if I were to offer scenarios whereby the perpetrators could face trial, eg. in the Hague or before an American court, you would find fault with the specifics of the suggestion when in actual fact, what you object to is the idea that these Americans should answer for their crimes just like those America seeks to bring to justice elsewhere. Once again, is there any scenario you can think of where putting these people on trial would be the correct thing to do? Because I view Castro and Bush Sr. a differently.
Grammatron Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,446	__________________ Private Information, Do not read this!

22nd September 2004, 03:18 PM	#24
Ian Osborne JREF Kid Tagger Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Wiltshire Posts: 6,383	Quote: Originally posted by Grammatron Because I view Castro and Bush Sr. a differently. And Alende?
	__________________ "Faith without doubt leads to moral arrogance, the eternal pratfall of the religiously convinced" - Joe Klein, Time magazine "The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." - Carl Sagan

22nd September 2004, 03:23 PM	#25
epepke Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,950	Some days, I think I'm the only person on the planet who remembers Bush as having made statements about wanting to get rid of Saddam Hussein during his 2000 campaign.
epepke Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,950

22nd September 2004, 03:24 PM	#26
Grammatron Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,446	Quote: Originally posted by Ian Osborne And Alende? I'd have to think about that one.
Grammatron Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,446	__________________ Private Information, Do not read this!

22nd September 2004, 10:32 PM	#27
peptoabysmal Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,467	Gee, you left out the "Because Bush's wife beats him and he had to take it out on someone" option.
	__________________ OBAMA: It's not that I want to punish your success; I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you that they've got a chance to success, too. I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody.

22nd September 2004, 11:04 PM	#28
Grammatron Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,446	Quote: Originally posted by epepke Some days, I think I'm the only person on the planet who remembers Bush as having made statements about wanting to get rid of Saddam Hussein during his 2000 campaign. No surprise there. We wanted him gone since Gulf War I. There was several resolution to support Iraqi National Congress or whatever it was called which basicly meant to recognize them as a government when they take out Saddam.
Grammatron Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,446	__________________ Private Information, Do not read this!