The Miracle Of The Bleeding Obvious

Dr Adequate · 28th September 2004, 11:35 AM

There is an argument known as god-of-the-gaps. We're all familiar with it. But there are arguments which are beyond the god-of-the-gaps. If there is no gap at all, not even a little one, into which you could squeeze even the tiniest deity, then The True Believer resorts to... The Miracle Of The Bleeding Obvious.

For example, we just had a homeopath on one thread, who used the memorable phrase:

"Homeopathy works extremely well in conjunction with conventional medicine."
- Sarah-I, JREF forums

This is the Miracle Of The Bleeding Obvious. Hallelujah! Here's some more examples:

Often it seems like our childhood experiences and traumas are more significant than they really are only because the family situation we are born into will always exactly match the issues we are already deeply involved in. For example, if a person who has a long karmic history of loss and separation is born to a mother who is cold and unaffectionate, they will be much more deeply affected than someone without that kind of history. The person with the karmic history of loss is already deeply wrapped up in the feeling of loss, so even small experiences of loss in the present may seem overwhelming to them. And if they are unaware of their karmic past, they will believe that this huge feeling of loss is being caused solely by present circumstances.
http://www.vortexhealing.com

My italics. Here's another one.

"The energy body most similar to the physical body is called the "vital body" (sometimes referred to as the "etheric body"). It surrounds and permeates the physical body. The vital body is the medium through which the life force flows, corresponding to flows of nutrients and fluids in the physical body. The vital body also contains the blueprint for physical growth that is required as new cells replace old ones. It has been estimated that each cell in the human body cycles through death and replacement several times in a single lifetime. Without a blueprint, how else could this work?"
http://www.twelvestar.com/Earthlight

Beats me how my body gets by without a blueprint...

"In the case of the shroud linen the results at three different labs produced similar results. A 95% probability of 1260-1390AD.

Assuming the material has already been ionized (which is the main principle for carbon dating),then the method of carbon dating will give an incorrect answer to the actual date of origin for the shroud.

We may be able to extract out of the data how much ionization took place to burn the image on the shroud. What would this tell us? That the mans image in the Shroud is in fact the Son of God. The voltage to produce this image may be far greater then any organism is capable of. Since we see no entrance areas in the linen for lightning to have struck the body, having produced the image, we must conclude that the image was created through the process of resurrection."
http://www.yfiles.com/shroud2.html

Do I need to comment? Here's some fundies at it:

"But on the way back to the motel, the kids did not fall asleep as we expected. They kept chattering incessently... they kept saying the word 'motel'... everytime they said it, I got butterflies in my stomach... We decided the Lord was trying to communicate something to us, so we... ended up paying the 150 for that nice hotel in the city. I don't know what the Lord saved us from. But we are convinced that He most likely saved our lives that night."
- valerie, RaptureReady

"God does do miracles today. I've seen it many times. For example, my boss was in a major car accident. One where an SUV landed, literally on top of her, on her side of the car. Her body was broken up in several locations. She is still alive. If that's not a miracle I don't know what is... I hate to think what would've happened if God didn't help that day."
- mega99, PayableOnDeath BBS

And my all time favorite:

"I had a very annoying squirrel who had gotten into my attic somehow... Anyway, I was really worrying about how I was going to get this squirrel out... I just said oh Lord, what am I going to do about this squirrel?... Well to my surprise, God answered me and said 'speak to it and tell it to leave'... I said Squirrel, In the name of Jesus I command you to take your nest and leave and not return... And do you know what? I've never heard that squirrel again since... it's gone!"
- CAT, RaptureReady

So if Satan sends his evil squirrels to torment you, you know what to do. If you are not currently plagued by demonly rodents, and can be bothered, please post on this thread your favorite examples, from the Internet or elsewhere, of people who can perform the Miracle Of The Bleeding Obvious.

Marquis de Carabas · 28th September 2004, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr Adequate

"God does do miracles today. I've seen it many times. For example, my boss was in a major car accident. One where an SUV landed, literally on top of her, on her side of the car. Her body was broken up in several locations. She is still alive. If that's not a miracle I don't know what is... I hate to think what would've happened if God didn't help that day."
- mega99, PayableOnDeath BBS

Yeah, maybe if God hadn't've chucked that SUV on top of her...

Lisa Simpson · 28th September 2004, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Marquis de Carabas
Yeah, maybe if God hadn't've chucked that SUV on top of her...

Maybe it wasn't God that chucked the SUV on top of her. Maybe it was...Satan?!?!

Yaotl · 28th September 2004, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson
Maybe it wasn't God that chucked the SUV on top of her. Maybe it was...Satan?!?!

So does that mean I can scream "Jesus" at the top of my lungs so nothing bad happens to me?

Marquis de Carabas · 28th September 2004, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson
Maybe it wasn't God that chucked the SUV on top of her. Maybe it was...Satan?!?!

Blasphemer! God is omnipotent. Satan is just pretty strong. Satan could manage a midsize pickup maybe, but for an SUV, you need God muscles!

Cleon · 28th September 2004, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yaotl
So does that mean I can scream "Jesus" at the top of my lungs so nothing bad happens to me?

Please do. Especially if you're at work, in a cubicle. It would be highly entertaining to your colleagues.

Yaotl · 28th September 2004, 12:29 PM

Ahh, but they can do no harm and I can't get fired, right? .....right?

Once again, it really scares me that there are people like in the OP out there.

Dr Adequate · 28th September 2004, 12:32 PM

"I think we would all be suprised at the times the devil and his followers have TRIED to kill us but couldn't."
- Amen, RaptureReady

"The MAIN REASON that our country has not suffered a major terrorist attack against it since 9/11/01 is because our Lord,IN HIS GRACE AND POWER AND MERCY AND LOVE,has prevented an attack from happening in this country!!... If our Lord God Almighty ever decides,for whatever reason,to lift his Hand of Protection off of our country,it DOES NOT MATTER if we have every safety precaution that is possible in place in our nation here..."
- Saved By Jesus, RaptureReady

All that AND he casts out squirrels.

Gastric ReFlux · 28th September 2004, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr Adequate
"I think we would all be suprised at the times the devil and his followers have TRIED to kill us but couldn't."
- Amen, RaptureReady

"The MAIN REASON that our country has not suffered a major terrorist attack against it since 9/11/01 is because our Lord,IN HIS GRACE AND POWER AND MERCY AND LOVE,has prevented an attack from happening in this country!!... If our Lord God Almighty ever decides,for whatever reason,to lift his Hand of Protection off of our country,it DOES NOT MATTER if we have every safety precaution that is possible in place in our nation here..."
- Saved By Jesus, RaptureReady

All that AND he casts out squirrels.

The wonders of Jesus in the modern age. 2,000 years old and able to cast out squirrels.

Operaider · 28th September 2004, 01:13 PM

"The MAIN REASON that our country has not suffered a major terrorist attack against it since 9/11/01 is because our Lord,IN HIS GRACE AND POWER AND MERCY AND LOVE,has prevented an attack from happening in this country!!... If our Lord God Almighty ever decides,for whatever reason,to lift his Hand of Protection off of our country,it DOES NOT MATTER if we have every safety precaution that is possible in place in our nation here..."
- Saved By Jesus, RaptureReady

So, was he on his coffee break on Sept 11? If he's protecting America I'm surprised we haven't heard any reports of terrorist being stopped through acts of God. Maybe I just missed them. Can anyone direct me to any news articles that report on a terrorist that was about to drive a van with explosives into a building when he was suddenly attacked by a swarm of locusts.

Lisa Simpson · 28th September 2004, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Operaider

So, was he on his coffee break on Sept 11? If he's protecting America I'm surprised we haven't heard any reports of terrorist being stopped through acts of God. Maybe I just missed them.

Don't you remember some TV preacher saying the reason 9/11 happened was because of the abortionists, gays, liberals, etc? God was in a snit. That's why it happened.

Gastric ReFlux · 28th September 2004, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Operaider
"The MAIN REASON that our country has not suffered a major terrorist attack against it since 9/11/01 is because our Lord,IN HIS GRACE AND POWER AND MERCY AND LOVE,has prevented an attack from happening in this country!!... If our Lord God Almighty ever decides,for whatever reason,to lift his Hand of Protection off of our country,it DOES NOT MATTER if we have every safety precaution that is possible in place in our nation here..."
- Saved By Jesus, RaptureReady

So, was he on his coffee break on Sept 11? If he's protecting America I'm surprised we haven't heard any reports of terrorist being stopped through acts of God. Maybe I just missed them. Can anyone direct me to any news articles that report on a terrorist that was about to drive a van with explosives into a building when he was suddenly attacked by a swarm of locusts.

Right now God might be too busy getting ready to unleash some righteous anger on the homos.

phildonnia · 28th September 2004, 01:25 PM

The shroud argument is pretty funny, but I don't see how it's a "Miracle of the obvious" in the same way as the other examples.

Anyway, I had a better hypothesis for the shroud, which it would do my ego good to see widely disseminated:

Perhaps Christ imparted eternal life to the plant fibers in the shroud, and they continued to exchange carbon with the biosphere long after the Resurrection. From here, we have two sub-theories: the fibers eventually died in the late 14th century, or alternatively, they continue to live, but only a certain percentage were Saved, and that percentage can be determined from the levels of C14 in remaining.

Dr Adequate · 28th September 2004, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by phildonnia
The shroud argument is pretty funny, but I don't see how it's a "Miracle of the obvious" in the same way as the other examples.

The shroud dates to the middle ages, when it was first recorded. Only a miracle can account for this. In fact, a miracle so impressive that it proves the divinity of Jesus. Surely, yea, verily, this is the MBO.

phildonnia · 28th September 2004, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr Adequate
The shroud dates to the middle ages, when it was first recorded. Only a miracle can account for this. In fact, a miracle so impressive that it proves the divinity of Jesus. Surely, yea, verily, this is the MBO.

I didn't get that from the original post, but yes, that is indeed a MBO.

Not exactly a miracle, but I'm always amazed at the theories concerning the infamous Port Chicago Explosion.

The gov't will not come clean about the top-secret super-weapon that may have been detonated there. As part of the deception, a few thousand tons of high explosives were being carelessly handled at the site; and there were even detailed records of their delivery. Veeery mysterious. The real cause of the blinding flash and mushroom cloud remain shrouded in mystery.

Marquis de Carabas · 28th September 2004, 02:27 PM

An acquaintance of mine was once exiting the freeway in Austin when his brakes went out. There was a U-turn lane under the freeway, and he was able to slow down enough to get into it, steer through it and continue down the other side of the access road until he stopped.

Relating the story to me, he said, "I sure am glad God put that U-turn there." Though I tried, the laughter could not be stopped.

Loki · 28th September 2004, 10:43 PM

Dr Adequate,

Quote:

"I had a very annoying squirrel who had gotten into my attic somehow... Anyway, I was really worrying about how I was going to get this squirrel out... I just said oh Lord, what am I going to do about this squirrel?... Well to my surprise, God answered me and said 'speak to it and tell it to leave'... I said Squirrel, In the name of Jesus I command you to take your nest and leave and not return... And do you know what? I've never heard that squirrel again since... it's gone!"
- CAT, RaptureReady

I had a similar problem with possums in my roof and like this chap, in desperation I turned to the Lord for help. To my surprise he answered my plea, but in my case the response was a very curt â€œI donâ€™t do possums, go to the Devilâ€. Well this was my first actual conversation with the Almighty and must admit to being somewhat disappointed in the offish response. As this was God, the Creator of all things, the all-knowing entity, I figured that there must be more to what he said to me; maybe a message of some sort. What exactly did he mean when he said â€œgo to the Devilâ€? Was he just telling me he was too busy for this kind of crap and to f*ck off, or was he telling me to actually go and ask the Devil? Did this mean that possums were actually the creation of the Devil and had nothing to do with him? I pondered these questions deeply and began seeking guidance from religious authorities. Sadly all thought I was more than just a little crazy and would offer no advice other than the contact details for various institutions for the mentally disadvantaged. Eventually, after a long conversation with my dog I decided to take matters into my own hands and give the Devil a shout, after all this possum was really making my life a living hell anyhow, so what did I have to lose.

I decided to make this a bit of an event and bought some candles and waited for a stormy night before summoning help from the Evil one. So as the wind howled, the thunder cracked and the lightning flashed across the sky, I uttered the fateful words, â€œhey Devil, can you help me get rid of this possumâ€. Immediately he/she replied in a voice that sounded eerily like Michael Jackson â€œyep, I can do the possum, but it will cost you your soulâ€. I must admit I was not really expecting to pay for this, I thought he/she might have done it as a favour, but in hindsight, we are talking about the Evil One here, so favours are probably not a big part of his/her repertoire. I told him/her I needed a little time to think about this and I would have to come back to him/her, most likely with some questions. He/she said that was cool and said goodbye, with one of those Jacksonâ€™ish high pitched, groin clutching squeals (I wonder if Devils have groins?).

What a dilemma. My soul for a possum. Was this a good deal? What the hell is a soul anyway and how do you give it to someone? Will it hurt? Will I feel different afterwards? If I ask the Devil these questions, will he tell me the truth â€“ ha! who am I kidding, heâ€™s the Devil, he probably lies worse that John Howard. I could ask God - surely he wouldnâ€™t lie. So the next night I gave the Lord another shout and once more he responded. I bought him up to speed on my dealings with the Prince of Darkness and asked him my soul questions. He seemed pretty pissed and called me a â€œstupid little f*ckerâ€ - a bit harsh I thought. When I tried to remind him that I was only doing what he told me he got really steamed and went into this diatribe about being the all knowing, all seeing entity and did not need some little piece of **** like me to remind him of anything. Finally he calmed down a little and offered me this piece of advice â€œif you surrender your soul, you will feel differentâ€. I tried to ask what he meant by this but he brushed me off with some mumbled comment about just because he created me didnâ€™t mean he had to like me - what with people like me, and the bloody Jews, he really felt he had made a few errors in judgment when creating stuff and should have stopped at cockroaches.

Now I was pissed, who the f*ck does God think he is anyway. I decided to go to the Devil. I can deal with feeling a bit different and hopefully the Evil one wonâ€™t be that bad a guy/girl after all. So I gave him/her another shout and told him/her I was ready to do the deal â€“ my soul for the possum. They Devil let out a laugh, well more like a girlie giggle; not the dredged up from hell, spine chilling experience you would have expected. He/she said, â€œpossum piss offâ€ and told me he/she was ready to collect my soul. OK, so the moment had arrived. Time to turnover the soul. I felt a strange sensation in my groin, not painful, but as though something was no longer as it was. The Devil said â€œdoneâ€ and â€œthank youâ€ but before he/she could depart I asked him/her what had just happened. Well it turns out that the soul is actually contained within the left testicle and the odd sensation I had felt was my left testicle being removed. â€œFor Christâ€™s sake, (probably a poor choice of words) you must be jokingâ€ I shouted. â€œThis must be some kind of joke, the left testicle is your soul â€“ Iâ€™ve given my left ball for a possumâ€. The Devil seems genuinely amused by my outburst and proceeded to point out a few things to me. â€œThink about itâ€ he/she said â€œwhy do you need two testicles, one is enough, but God stuffed up, and not capable of admitting his mistake, God decided that the left testicle would be a perfect place to put the soul, instead of the heart, where it was originally planned to go. And in case you need more proof, look at Hitler; one ball; Stalin, one ball; Idi Amin, one ball; Tony Abbott, one ball; women, no balls.â€ With that, the Prince of Darkness said his/her farewells and was gone.

I was left alone, alone and with only one ball, but at least the possum was gone, well at least until the following night when a whole family of them took up residence. So what was the consequence to all this. Yes I did feel different especially when I put my hands in my pockets, but aside from that there did not seem to be any effects from not having a soul. Sure, I have recurring nightmares of innocents burning in the fires of hell, and sure, I hear voices telling me to rape, murder and dismember people I pass on the street, but thatâ€™s all been happening for years anyway â€“ ever since I saw the Rambo marathon. Is there a lesson to be learned, a moral from the story. Well no.

Explorer · 29th September 2004, 12:05 AM

You mean my honours degree in the "Bleeding Obvious" is not worth the paper it is written on?

28th September 2004, 11:35 AM	#1
Dr Adequate Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Waiting Long Enough By The River Posts: 17,897	The Miracle Of The Bleeding Obvious There is an argument known as god-of-the-gaps. We're all familiar with it. But there are arguments which are beyond the god-of-the-gaps. If there is no gap at all, not even a little one, into which you could squeeze even the tiniest deity, then The True Believer resorts to... The Miracle Of The Bleeding Obvious. For example, we just had a homeopath on one thread, who used the memorable phrase: "Homeopathy works extremely well in conjunction with conventional medicine." - Sarah-I, JREF forums This is the Miracle Of The Bleeding Obvious. Hallelujah! Here's some more examples: Often it seems like our childhood experiences and traumas are more significant than they really are only because the family situation we are born into will always exactly match the issues we are already deeply involved in. For example, if a person who has a long karmic history of loss and separation is born to a mother who is cold and unaffectionate, they will be much more deeply affected than someone without that kind of history. The person with the karmic history of loss is already deeply wrapped up in the feeling of loss, so even small experiences of loss in the present may seem overwhelming to them. And if they are unaware of their karmic past, they will believe that this huge feeling of loss is being caused solely by present circumstances. http://www.vortexhealing.com My italics. Here's another one. "The energy body most similar to the physical body is called the "vital body" (sometimes referred to as the "etheric body"). It surrounds and permeates the physical body. The vital body is the medium through which the life force flows, corresponding to flows of nutrients and fluids in the physical body. The vital body also contains the blueprint for physical growth that is required as new cells replace old ones. It has been estimated that each cell in the human body cycles through death and replacement several times in a single lifetime. Without a blueprint, how else could this work?" http://www.twelvestar.com/Earthlight Beats me how my body gets by without a blueprint... "In the case of the shroud linen the results at three different labs produced similar results. A 95% probability of 1260-1390AD. Assuming the material has already been ionized (which is the main principle for carbon dating),then the method of carbon dating will give an incorrect answer to the actual date of origin for the shroud. We may be able to extract out of the data how much ionization took place to burn the image on the shroud. What would this tell us? That the mans image in the Shroud is in fact the Son of God. The voltage to produce this image may be far greater then any organism is capable of. Since we see no entrance areas in the linen for lightning to have struck the body, having produced the image, we must conclude that the image was created through the process of resurrection." http://www.yfiles.com/shroud2.html Do I need to comment? Here's some fundies at it: "But on the way back to the motel, the kids did not fall asleep as we expected. They kept chattering incessently... they kept saying the word 'motel'... everytime they said it, I got butterflies in my stomach... We decided the Lord was trying to communicate something to us, so we... ended up paying the 150 for that nice hotel in the city. I don't know what the Lord saved us from. But we are convinced that He most likely saved our lives that night." - valerie, RaptureReady "God does do miracles today. I've seen it many times. For example, my boss was in a major car accident. One where an SUV landed, literally on top of her, on her side of the car. Her body was broken up in several locations. She is still alive. If that's not a miracle I don't know what is... I hate to think what would've happened if God didn't help that day." - mega99, PayableOnDeath BBS And my all time favorite: "I had a very annoying squirrel who had gotten into my attic somehow... Anyway, I was really worrying about how I was going to get this squirrel out... I just said oh Lord, what am I going to do about this squirrel?... Well to my surprise, God answered me and said 'speak to it and tell it to leave'... I said Squirrel, In the name of Jesus I command you to take your nest and leave and not return... And do you know what? I've never heard that squirrel again since... it's gone!" - CAT, RaptureReady So if Satan sends his evil squirrels to torment you, you know what to do. If you are not currently plagued by demonly rodents, and can be bothered, please post on this thread your favorite examples, from the Internet or elsewhere, of people who can perform the Miracle Of The Bleeding Obvious.

28th September 2004, 12:01 PM	#2
Marquis de Carabas Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: vuori Posts: 27,106	Re: The Miracle Of The Bleeding Obvious Quote: Originally posted by Dr Adequate "God does do miracles today. I've seen it many times. For example, my boss was in a major car accident. One where an SUV landed, literally on top of her, on her side of the car. Her body was broken up in several locations. She is still alive. If that's not a miracle I don't know what is... I hate to think what would've happened if God didn't help that day." - mega99, PayableOnDeath BBS Yeah, maybe if God hadn't've chucked that SUV on top of her...
	__________________ Jesus ... wasn't he the bloke who turned fish into wine and made the lepers multiply? -KateHL Violence is more acceptable than incest. I have been told to keep this in mind.

28th September 2004, 12:06 PM	#3
Lisa Simpson THE Lisa Simpson Administrator Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: 123 Fake Street Posts: 20,062	Re: Re: The Miracle Of The Bleeding Obvious Quote: Originally posted by Marquis de Carabas Yeah, maybe if God hadn't've chucked that SUV on top of her... Maybe it wasn't God that chucked the SUV on top of her. Maybe it was...Satan?!?!
	__________________ That's what the Internet does -- you get a free bonus prize of Stupid Lies with every box of Delicious Facts. - cracked.com Facts are satanic litter on the heavenly highway to blind faith! - Betty Bowers

28th September 2004, 12:06 PM	#4
Yaotl Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 430	Re: Re: Re: The Miracle Of The Bleeding Obvious Quote: Originally posted by Lisa Simpson Maybe it wasn't God that chucked the SUV on top of her. Maybe it was...Satan?!?! So does that mean I can scream "Jesus" at the top of my lungs so nothing bad happens to me?
Yaotl Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 430

28th September 2004, 12:07 PM	#5
Marquis de Carabas Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: vuori Posts: 27,106	Re: Re: Re: The Miracle Of The Bleeding Obvious Quote: Originally posted by Lisa Simpson Maybe it wasn't God that chucked the SUV on top of her. Maybe it was...Satan?!?! Blasphemer! God is omnipotent. Satan is just pretty strong. Satan could manage a midsize pickup maybe, but for an SUV, you need God muscles!
	__________________ Jesus ... wasn't he the bloke who turned fish into wine and made the lepers multiply? -KateHL Violence is more acceptable than incest. I have been told to keep this in mind.

28th September 2004, 12:10 PM	#6
Cleon King of the Pod People Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 20,532	Re: Re: Re: Re: The Miracle Of The Bleeding Obvious Quote: Originally posted by Yaotl So does that mean I can scream "Jesus" at the top of my lungs so nothing bad happens to me? Please do. Especially if you're at work, in a cubicle. It would be highly entertaining to your colleagues.
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

28th September 2004, 12:29 PM	#7
Yaotl Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 430	Ahh, but they can do no harm and I can't get fired, right? .....right? Once again, it really scares me that there are people like in the OP out there.
Yaotl Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 430

28th September 2004, 12:32 PM	#8
Dr Adequate Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Waiting Long Enough By The River Posts: 17,897	"I think we would all be suprised at the times the devil and his followers have TRIED to kill us but couldn't." - Amen, RaptureReady "The MAIN REASON that our country has not suffered a major terrorist attack against it since 9/11/01 is because our Lord,IN HIS GRACE AND POWER AND MERCY AND LOVE,has prevented an attack from happening in this country!!... If our Lord God Almighty ever decides,for whatever reason,to lift his Hand of Protection off of our country,it DOES NOT MATTER if we have every safety precaution that is possible in place in our nation here..." - Saved By Jesus, RaptureReady All that AND he casts out squirrels.

28th September 2004, 12:54 PM	#9
Gastric ReFlux Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 257	Quote: Originally posted by Dr Adequate "I think we would all be suprised at the times the devil and his followers have TRIED to kill us but couldn't." - Amen, RaptureReady "The MAIN REASON that our country has not suffered a major terrorist attack against it since 9/11/01 is because our Lord,IN HIS GRACE AND POWER AND MERCY AND LOVE,has prevented an attack from happening in this country!!... If our Lord God Almighty ever decides,for whatever reason,to lift his Hand of Protection off of our country,it DOES NOT MATTER if we have every safety precaution that is possible in place in our nation here..." - Saved By Jesus, RaptureReady All that AND he casts out squirrels. The wonders of Jesus in the modern age. 2,000 years old and able to cast out squirrels.
	__________________ Coolest smiley in the world right here at the Randi forums: Quote: but how do you know Satan didn't plant other gods, saviors and demons in history? YOU DON'T Every argument made by anti-God people are based on naturalistic presuppositions and Satan could very well be behind these presuppositions. Think about it. Your precious ''rational and predictable world'' may just be an illusion created by God's enemy. --1inChrist

28th September 2004, 01:13 PM	#10
Operaider Muse Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 914	"The MAIN REASON that our country has not suffered a major terrorist attack against it since 9/11/01 is because our Lord,IN HIS GRACE AND POWER AND MERCY AND LOVE,has prevented an attack from happening in this country!!... If our Lord God Almighty ever decides,for whatever reason,to lift his Hand of Protection off of our country,it DOES NOT MATTER if we have every safety precaution that is possible in place in our nation here..." - Saved By Jesus, RaptureReady So, was he on his coffee break on Sept 11? If he's protecting America I'm surprised we haven't heard any reports of terrorist being stopped through acts of God. Maybe I just missed them. Can anyone direct me to any news articles that report on a terrorist that was about to drive a van with explosives into a building when he was suddenly attacked by a swarm of locusts.
Operaider Muse Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 914	__________________ Spirituality: the last refuge of a failed human. Just another way of distracting yourself from who you really are - George Carlin Science is not belief, but the will to find out. - Anon

28th September 2004, 01:14 PM	#11
Lisa Simpson THE Lisa Simpson Administrator Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: 123 Fake Street Posts: 20,062	Quote: Originally posted by Operaider So, was he on his coffee break on Sept 11? If he's protecting America I'm surprised we haven't heard any reports of terrorist being stopped through acts of God. Maybe I just missed them. Don't you remember some TV preacher saying the reason 9/11 happened was because of the abortionists, gays, liberals, etc? God was in a snit. That's why it happened.
	__________________ That's what the Internet does -- you get a free bonus prize of Stupid Lies with every box of Delicious Facts. - cracked.com Facts are satanic litter on the heavenly highway to blind faith! - Betty Bowers

28th September 2004, 01:18 PM	#12
Gastric ReFlux Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 257	Quote: Originally posted by Operaider "The MAIN REASON that our country has not suffered a major terrorist attack against it since 9/11/01 is because our Lord,IN HIS GRACE AND POWER AND MERCY AND LOVE,has prevented an attack from happening in this country!!... If our Lord God Almighty ever decides,for whatever reason,to lift his Hand of Protection off of our country,it DOES NOT MATTER if we have every safety precaution that is possible in place in our nation here..." - Saved By Jesus, RaptureReady So, was he on his coffee break on Sept 11? If he's protecting America I'm surprised we haven't heard any reports of terrorist being stopped through acts of God. Maybe I just missed them. Can anyone direct me to any news articles that report on a terrorist that was about to drive a van with explosives into a building when he was suddenly attacked by a swarm of locusts. Right now God might be too busy getting ready to unleash some righteous anger on the homos.
	__________________ Coolest smiley in the world right here at the Randi forums: Quote: but how do you know Satan didn't plant other gods, saviors and demons in history? YOU DON'T Every argument made by anti-God people are based on naturalistic presuppositions and Satan could very well be behind these presuppositions. Think about it. Your precious ''rational and predictable world'' may just be an illusion created by God's enemy. --1inChrist

28th September 2004, 01:25 PM	#13
phildonnia Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Sac'to CA Posts: 2,339	The shroud argument is pretty funny, but I don't see how it's a "Miracle of the obvious" in the same way as the other examples. Anyway, I had a better hypothesis for the shroud, which it would do my ego good to see widely disseminated: Perhaps Christ imparted eternal life to the plant fibers in the shroud, and they continued to exchange carbon with the biosphere long after the Resurrection. From here, we have two sub-theories: the fibers eventually died in the late 14th century, or alternatively, they continue to live, but only a certain percentage were Saved, and that percentage can be determined from the levels of C14 in remaining.

28th September 2004, 01:30 PM	#14
Dr Adequate Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Waiting Long Enough By The River Posts: 17,897	Quote: Originally posted by phildonnia The shroud argument is pretty funny, but I don't see how it's a "Miracle of the obvious" in the same way as the other examples. The shroud dates to the middle ages, when it was first recorded. Only a miracle can account for this. In fact, a miracle so impressive that it proves the divinity of Jesus. Surely, yea, verily, this is the MBO.

28th September 2004, 02:07 PM	#15
phildonnia Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Sac'to CA Posts: 2,339	Quote: Originally posted by Dr Adequate The shroud dates to the middle ages, when it was first recorded. Only a miracle can account for this. In fact, a miracle so impressive that it proves the divinity of Jesus. Surely, yea, verily, this is the MBO. I didn't get that from the original post, but yes, that is indeed a MBO. Not exactly a miracle, but I'm always amazed at the theories concerning the infamous Port Chicago Explosion. The gov't will not come clean about the top-secret super-weapon that may have been detonated there. As part of the deception, a few thousand tons of high explosives were being carelessly handled at the site; and there were even detailed records of their delivery. Veeery mysterious. The real cause of the blinding flash and mushroom cloud remain shrouded in mystery.

28th September 2004, 02:27 PM	#16
Marquis de Carabas Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: vuori Posts: 27,106	An acquaintance of mine was once exiting the freeway in Austin when his brakes went out. There was a U-turn lane under the freeway, and he was able to slow down enough to get into it, steer through it and continue down the other side of the access road until he stopped. Relating the story to me, he said, "I sure am glad God put that U-turn there." Though I tried, the laughter could not be stopped.
	__________________ Jesus ... wasn't he the bloke who turned fish into wine and made the lepers multiply? -KateHL Violence is more acceptable than incest. I have been told to keep this in mind.

28th September 2004, 10:43 PM	#17
Loki Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,406	Dr Adequate, Quote: "I had a very annoying squirrel who had gotten into my attic somehow... Anyway, I was really worrying about how I was going to get this squirrel out... I just said oh Lord, what am I going to do about this squirrel?... Well to my surprise, God answered me and said 'speak to it and tell it to leave'... I said Squirrel, In the name of Jesus I command you to take your nest and leave and not return... And do you know what? I've never heard that squirrel again since... it's gone!" - CAT, RaptureReady I had a similar problem with possums in my roof and like this chap, in desperation I turned to the Lord for help. To my surprise he answered my plea, but in my case the response was a very curt â€œI donâ€™t do possums, go to the Devilâ€. Well this was my first actual conversation with the Almighty and must admit to being somewhat disappointed in the offish response. As this was God, the Creator of all things, the all-knowing entity, I figured that there must be more to what he said to me; maybe a message of some sort. What exactly did he mean when he said â€œgo to the Devilâ€? Was he just telling me he was too busy for this kind of crap and to fck off, or was he telling me to actually go and ask the Devil? Did this mean that possums were actually the creation of the Devil and had nothing to do with him? I pondered these questions deeply and began seeking guidance from religious authorities. Sadly all thought I was more than just a little crazy and would offer no advice other than the contact details for various institutions for the mentally disadvantaged. Eventually, after a long conversation with my dog I decided to take matters into my own hands and give the Devil a shout, after all this possum was really making my life a living hell anyhow, so what did I have to lose. I decided to make this a bit of an event and bought some candles and waited for a stormy night before summoning help from the Evil one. So as the wind howled, the thunder cracked and the lightning flashed across the sky, I uttered the fateful words, â€œhey Devil, can you help me get rid of this possumâ€. Immediately he/she replied in a voice that sounded eerily like Michael Jackson â€œyep, I can do the possum, but it will cost you your soulâ€. I must admit I was not really expecting to pay for this, I thought he/she might have done it as a favour, but in hindsight, we are talking about the Evil One here, so favours are probably not a big part of his/her repertoire. I told him/her I needed a little time to think about this and I would have to come back to him/her, most likely with some questions. He/she said that was cool and said goodbye, with one of those Jacksonâ€™ish high pitched, groin clutching squeals (I wonder if Devils have groins?). What a dilemma. My soul for a possum. Was this a good deal? What the hell is a soul anyway and how do you give it to someone? Will it hurt? Will I feel different afterwards? If I ask the Devil these questions, will he tell me the truth â€“ ha! who am I kidding, heâ€™s the Devil, he probably lies worse that John Howard. I could ask God - surely he wouldnâ€™t lie. So the next night I gave the Lord another shout and once more he responded. I bought him up to speed on my dealings with the Prince of Darkness and asked him my soul questions. He seemed pretty pissed and called me a â€œstupid little fckerâ€ - a bit harsh I thought. When I tried to remind him that I was only doing what he told me he got really steamed and went into this diatribe about being the all knowing, all seeing entity and did not need some little piece of **** like me to remind him of anything. Finally he calmed down a little and offered me this piece of advice â€œif you surrender your soul, you will feel differentâ€. I tried to ask what he meant by this but he brushed me off with some mumbled comment about just because he created me didnâ€™t mean he had to like me - what with people like me, and the bloody Jews, he really felt he had made a few errors in judgment when creating stuff and should have stopped at cockroaches. Now I was pissed, who the f*ck does God think he is anyway. I decided to go to the Devil. I can deal with feeling a bit different and hopefully the Evil one wonâ€™t be that bad a guy/girl after all. So I gave him/her another shout and told him/her I was ready to do the deal â€“ my soul for the possum. They Devil let out a laugh, well more like a girlie giggle; not the dredged up from hell, spine chilling experience you would have expected. He/she said, â€œpossum piss offâ€ and told me he/she was ready to collect my soul. OK, so the moment had arrived. Time to turnover the soul. I felt a strange sensation in my groin, not painful, but as though something was no longer as it was. The Devil said â€œdoneâ€ and â€œthank youâ€ but before he/she could depart I asked him/her what had just happened. Well it turns out that the soul is actually contained within the left testicle and the odd sensation I had felt was my left testicle being removed. â€œFor Christâ€™s sake, (probably a poor choice of words) you must be jokingâ€ I shouted. â€œThis must be some kind of joke, the left testicle is your soul â€“ Iâ€™ve given my left ball for a possumâ€. The Devil seems genuinely amused by my outburst and proceeded to point out a few things to me. â€œThink about itâ€ he/she said â€œwhy do you need two testicles, one is enough, but God stuffed up, and not capable of admitting his mistake, God decided that the left testicle would be a perfect place to put the soul, instead of the heart, where it was originally planned to go. And in case you need more proof, look at Hitler; one ball; Stalin, one ball; Idi Amin, one ball; Tony Abbott, one ball; women, no balls.â€ With that, the Prince of Darkness said his/her farewells and was gone. I was left alone, alone and with only one ball, but at least the possum was gone, well at least until the following night when a whole family of them took up residence. So what was the consequence to all this. Yes I did feel different especially when I put my hands in my pockets, but aside from that there did not seem to be any effects from not having a soul. Sure, I have recurring nightmares of innocents burning in the fires of hell, and sure, I hear voices telling me to rape, murder and dismember people I pass on the street, but thatâ€™s all been happening for years anyway â€“ ever since I saw the Rambo marathon. Is there a lesson to be learned, a moral from the story. Well no.
Loki Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,406	__________________ (Red Dwarf Newsreader): Good evening. Here is the news on Friday the 27th of Geldof. Archeologists near mount Sinai have discovered what is believed to be a missing page from the Bible. The page is currently being carbon dated in Bonn. If genuine it belongs at the beginning of the Bible and is believed to read 'To my darling Candy. All characters portrayed within this book are fictitous and any resemblance to persons living or dead is purely coincidental'. .

29th September 2004, 12:05 AM	#18
Explorer Muse Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 959	You mean my honours degree in the "Bleeding Obvious" is not worth the paper it is written on?
Explorer Muse Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 959