George W. Bush Drives U.S. Military Families Into Starvation

shemp · 20th October 2004, 09:40 AM

Quote:

(CBS) At a recent march for military families, it seems everybody in Lacey, Wash. turned out to support the troops at nearby Fort Lewis and McChord Air Force Base, both morally and financially.

John McClatchey, who donated $20, says, "It's not much, but I know every little bit counts."

As CBS News Correspondent Bill Whitaker reports, they raised $15,000 for military families in need.

"They're out there in Iraq and money is tight for those families," says Gary Benton.

At the Miramar Marine Air Station near San Diego where the movie "Top Gun" was filmed, some families are hitting rock bottom.

"It's not payday yet and I've got three kids at home," says Gloria Mendez. "(It's) time to feed them and the Navy doesn't pay enough for what we have to live here in San Diego."

So, some 500 military families come to the Food Locker on base every month for free groceries, donated by stores, the military and the Boy Scouts.

"Without us a lot of these families wouldn't make it," says Rita Riddick, co-chairman of the Food Locker.

I bet that f*cking buttrag in the White House eats well.

TragicMonkey · 20th October 2004, 09:51 AM

Disregarding the inflammatory word choice, I have to agree that military pay is ridiculously low for those on the bottom ranks.

warning: big pdf, takes a while.
http://www.dfas.mil/money/milpay/pay/2004paytable.pdf

A thousand bucks a month to start with doesn't sound like much, when the job entails the risks it does. I come from a military family, and while we got by okay (dad was an officer) we knew plenty of lower ranking people who needed food stamps to get by. It's hard enough to make so little when you're single, but with a family? Forget about it.

Although the low pay has always been bad, throughout both Republican and Democratic administrations. It's not Bush's fault in particular.

glsunder · 20th October 2004, 11:29 AM

Would minimum wage laws have any effect on military pay? If you figured it as a 40 hour per week job (like a salaried position), that's under $6 per hour. $7.20 would yeild $1248/month.

DaChew · 20th October 2004, 11:33 AM

I believe you'll find that congress exempted itself and the rest of the federal government including the military from the minimum wage and work time laws.

TragicMonkey · 20th October 2004, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by glsunder
Would minimum wage laws have any effect on military pay? If you figured it as a 40 hour per week job (like a salaried position), that's under $6 per hour. $7.20 would yeild $1248/month.

The military is exempt from all sorts of laws. Members of the military have certain restrictions even on free speech. They're certainly not going to get labor protections. (Well, think about it--someone firing missiles at you is one hell of an OSHA violation in any other industry.)

DaChew · 20th October 2004, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TragicMonkey
(Well, think about it--someone firing missiles at you is one hell of an OSHA violation in any other industry.)

Not if you document it properly.

TragicMonkey · 20th October 2004, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DaChew
Not if you document it properly.

Sigh. I totally got all the documents, but there was a statute of limitations I didn't know about.

Luke T. · 20th October 2004, 11:57 AM

Low military wages are nothing new. Bush didn't invent the problem. I had troops on financial assistance as far back as the 80s. It was even worse before my time in the 70s.

Dorian Gray · 20th October 2004, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Luke T.
Low military wages are nothing new. Bush didn't invent the problem. I had troops on financial assistance as far back as the 80s. It was even worse before my time in the 70s.

He also didn't FIX the problem. What a hypocrite.

peptoabysmal · 20th October 2004, 10:22 PM

Hard to believe that shemp is coming out for more military spending. That being said;

Could it be because only 18% of the federal budget goes to the military?

Good thing we spend the rest of that money on social programs and administrative overhead, so we can have the infrastructure to deliver food stamps.

Charlie Monoxide · 20th October 2004, 11:05 PM

I don't see what the problem is. Aren't soldiers issued guns? Can't they just go hunt for some food?

Charlie (make Ted Nugent proud) Monoxide

gnome · 22nd October 2004, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by peptoabysmal
Hard to believe that shemp is coming out for more military spending. That being said;

Could it be because only 18% of the federal budget goes to the military?

Good thing we spend the rest of that money on social programs and administrative overhead, so we can have the infrastructure to deliver food stamps.

How much of our budget goes to social programs like food stamps?

Rob Lister · 22nd October 2004, 06:03 PM

Military pay isn't that bad. Most would consider it on par with civilian pay given the same degree of education. Even better actually since the military trains almost everyone in one technical field or another. Ground pounders are about the only exception.

Consider a job you get when you're 18.

No college.

No experience.

No problem.

Even an E-1 with less than six months in will make $1200 a month in base plus another another $500 or so a month if married (Basic Allowance for Quarters). Maybe some Variable Housing Allowance as well ($150 average)

If he's deployed in a fire zone then he also gets hazduty pay of another $225 a month.

That's about $1900 a month.

Oh yea, no federal income tax if in a fire zone.

Now, if you keep your nose clean, show up when and where you're told, do a reasonble job, you'll likely be an E-4 within two years, E-5 in three or four, E-6 in six or eight, etc.

It's not a bad deal by any stretch.

Rob Lister · 23rd October 2004, 12:37 PM

Oh, did I mention that full medical is pretty much included for the whole family? Or that military families have access to the Commissaries, Exchange, and Morale, Welfare and Recreation facilities?

Where did everybody go? The recruiter?

Doesn't seem so bad, now does it?

a_unique_person · 23rd October 2004, 03:54 PM

And there's a tooth fairy. There have already been plenty of stories how the health care is not working, either. And all those benefits don't actually put food in your mouth.

Rob Lister · 23rd October 2004, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by a_unique_person
And there's a tooth fairy. There have already been plenty of stories how the health care is not working, either. And all those benefits don't actually put food in your mouth.

Huh? Military uses Champus/Tricare. It works pretty much like any HMO. As for the 'food in your mouth' how much do 18 year olds around your parts generally earn a month?

20th October 2004, 09:40 AM	#1
shemp Timothy, Timothy, where on earth did you go? Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: trapped in a cave-in with Joe Posts: 12,886	George W. Bush Drives U.S. Military Families Into Starvation U.S. Military Families In Need Quote: (CBS) At a recent march for military families, it seems everybody in Lacey, Wash. turned out to support the troops at nearby Fort Lewis and McChord Air Force Base, both morally and financially. John McClatchey, who donated $20, says, "It's not much, but I know every little bit counts." As CBS News Correspondent Bill Whitaker reports, they raised $15,000 for military families in need. "They're out there in Iraq and money is tight for those families," says Gary Benton. At the Miramar Marine Air Station near San Diego where the movie "Top Gun" was filmed, some families are hitting rock bottom. "It's not payday yet and I've got three kids at home," says Gloria Mendez. "(It's) time to feed them and the Navy doesn't pay enough for what we have to live here in San Diego." So, some 500 military families come to the Food Locker on base every month for free groceries, donated by stores, the military and the Boy Scouts. "Without us a lot of these families wouldn't make it," says Rita Riddick, co-chairman of the Food Locker. I bet that f*cking buttrag in the White House eats well.

20th October 2004, 09:51 AM	#2
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Pither Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 30,094	Disregarding the inflammatory word choice, I have to agree that military pay is ridiculously low for those on the bottom ranks. warning: big pdf, takes a while. http://www.dfas.mil/money/milpay/pay/2004paytable.pdf A thousand bucks a month to start with doesn't sound like much, when the job entails the risks it does. I come from a military family, and while we got by okay (dad was an officer) we knew plenty of lower ranking people who needed food stamps to get by. It's hard enough to make so little when you're single, but with a family? Forget about it. Although the low pay has always been bad, throughout both Republican and Democratic administrations. It's not Bush's fault in particular.
	__________________ One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.

20th October 2004, 11:29 AM	#3
glsunder Scholar Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 119	Would minimum wage laws have any effect on military pay? If you figured it as a 40 hour per week job (like a salaried position), that's under $6 per hour. $7.20 would yeild $1248/month.
glsunder Scholar Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 119

20th October 2004, 11:33 AM	#4
DaChew Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,043	I believe you'll find that congress exempted itself and the rest of the federal government including the military from the minimum wage and work time laws.
DaChew Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,043

20th October 2004, 11:33 AM	#5
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Pither Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 30,094	Quote: Originally posted by glsunder Would minimum wage laws have any effect on military pay? If you figured it as a 40 hour per week job (like a salaried position), that's under $6 per hour. $7.20 would yeild $1248/month. The military is exempt from all sorts of laws. Members of the military have certain restrictions even on free speech. They're certainly not going to get labor protections. (Well, think about it--someone firing missiles at you is one hell of an OSHA violation in any other industry.)
	__________________ One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.

20th October 2004, 11:35 AM	#6
DaChew Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,043	Quote: Originally posted by TragicMonkey (Well, think about it--someone firing missiles at you is one hell of an OSHA violation in any other industry.) Not if you document it properly.
DaChew Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,043

20th October 2004, 11:36 AM	#7
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Pither Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 30,094	Quote: Originally posted by DaChew Not if you document it properly. Sigh. I totally got all the documents, but there was a statute of limitations I didn't know about.
	__________________ One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.

20th October 2004, 11:57 AM	#8
Luke T. Guest Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 14,759	Low military wages are nothing new. Bush didn't invent the problem. I had troops on financial assistance as far back as the 80s. It was even worse before my time in the 70s.
Luke T. Guest Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 14,759

20th October 2004, 08:54 PM	#9
Dorian Gray Hypocrisy Detector Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 20,195	Quote: Originally posted by Luke T. Low military wages are nothing new. Bush didn't invent the problem. I had troops on financial assistance as far back as the 80s. It was even worse before my time in the 70s. He also didn't FIX the problem. What a hypocrite.
	__________________ "A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka "Rational arguments don't work on religious people. If they did, there wouldn't be any religious people." - House Additionally to Carlin being funnier than Izzard, I think Dorian is funnier than the Marquis. - Ron Tomkins

20th October 2004, 10:22 PM	#10
peptoabysmal Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,467	Hard to believe that shemp is coming out for more military spending. That being said; Could it be because only 18% of the federal budget goes to the military? Good thing we spend the rest of that money on social programs and administrative overhead, so we can have the infrastructure to deliver food stamps.
	__________________ OBAMA: It's not that I want to punish your success; I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you that they've got a chance to success, too. I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody.

20th October 2004, 11:05 PM	#11
Charlie Monoxide Wag Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: London, Ontario Posts: 2,761	I don't see what the problem is. Aren't soldiers issued guns? Can't they just go hunt for some food? Charlie (make Ted Nugent proud) Monoxide
	__________________ Major General Wag of JREF

22nd October 2004, 05:35 PM	#12
gnome Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,872	Quote: Originally posted by peptoabysmal Hard to believe that shemp is coming out for more military spending. That being said; Could it be because only 18% of the federal budget goes to the military? Good thing we spend the rest of that money on social programs and administrative overhead, so we can have the infrastructure to deliver food stamps. How much of our budget goes to social programs like food stamps?
gnome Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,872	__________________

22nd October 2004, 06:03 PM	#13
Rob Lister Suspended Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 8,523	Military pay isn't that bad. Most would consider it on par with civilian pay given the same degree of education. Even better actually since the military trains almost everyone in one technical field or another. Ground pounders are about the only exception. Consider a job you get when you're 18. No college. No experience. No problem. Even an E-1 with less than six months in will make $1200 a month in base plus another another $500 or so a month if married (Basic Allowance for Quarters). Maybe some Variable Housing Allowance as well ($150 average) If he's deployed in a fire zone then he also gets hazduty pay of another $225 a month. That's about $1900 a month. Oh yea, no federal income tax if in a fire zone. Now, if you keep your nose clean, show up when and where you're told, do a reasonble job, you'll likely be an E-4 within two years, E-5 in three or four, E-6 in six or eight, etc. It's not a bad deal by any stretch.

23rd October 2004, 12:37 PM	#14
Rob Lister Suspended Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 8,523	Oh, did I mention that full medical is pretty much included for the whole family? Or that military families have access to the Commissaries, Exchange, and Morale, Welfare and Recreation facilities? Where did everybody go? The recruiter? Doesn't seem so bad, now does it?

23rd October 2004, 03:54 PM	#15
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mt Disappointment Posts: 33,329	And there's a tooth fairy. There have already been plenty of stories how the health care is not working, either. And all those benefits don't actually put food in your mouth.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes

23rd October 2004, 06:14 PM	#16
Rob Lister Suspended Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 8,523	Quote: Originally posted by a_unique_person And there's a tooth fairy. There have already been plenty of stories how the health care is not working, either. And all those benefits don't actually put food in your mouth. Huh? Military uses Champus/Tricare. It works pretty much like any HMO. As for the 'food in your mouth' how much do 18 year olds around your parts generally earn a month?