A sincere question for any theist...

jimmygun · 24th October 2004, 04:40 PM

I posed this question to 1inC in his "I will answer any question about the bible" thread. He has so far declined to answer that one and many many others.

I will repeat it here for any theist that may care to take a stab at it...

"Put all the people professing a belief in the bible in a row, shoulder to shoulder. Lets say you are number 11,294. The first 11,293 give me different interpretations. You give me the 11,294th interpretation of the bible. Continuing down the line I get a different interpretation from everyone in the line.

Question...Who is right?

Question...Why you?

Question...Why is your interpretation more valid than all the others and why is your interpretation more valid than that of an atheist?"

TeaBag420 · 24th October 2004, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jimmygun
I posed this question to 1inC in his "I will answer any question about the bible" thread. He has so far declined to answer that one and many many others.

I will repeat it here for any theist that may care to take a stab at it...

"Put all the people professing a belief in the bible in a row, shoulder to shoulder. Lets say you are number 11,294. The first 11,293 give me different interpretations. You give me the 11,294th interpretation of the bible. Continuing down the line I get a different interpretation from everyone in the line.

Question...Who is right?

Question...Why you?

Question...Why is your interpretation more valid than all the others and why is your interpretation more valid than that of an atheist?"

This is ridiculously easy. Because I am a Prophet and have a hotline to God. A common concept in Judaism and Islam, less popular in Christianity. Although it should be added that Islam considers Muhammad to be the last Prophet.

What if my interpretation is "Why are you so focused on the Bible, since there are other theists who don't even think about the Bible? Did the Bible touch you where your bathing suit covers?" What about that, huh? Okay, everybody, back to the circle jerk. This is why I no longer read Mr. Randi's commentaries. Too much preaching to the converted. Just because you're right doesn't mean you have to say it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over, like a boot stamping on a human face, forever.

Kitty Chan · 24th October 2004, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jimmygun
I posed this question to 1inC in his "I will answer any question about the bible" thread. He has so far declined to answer that one and many many others.

I will repeat it here for any theist that may care to take a stab at it...
"Put all the people professing a belief in the bible in a row, shoulder to shoulder. Lets say you are number 11,294. The first 11,293 give me different interpretations. You give me the 11,294th interpretation of the bible. Continuing down the line I get a different interpretation from everyone in the line.

how do you know for sure you will get everyone to say something different, Im not saying they will be all the same but odds are they wont all be different. And what about similar things, what if they say the same idea just in a different way?

Question...Who is right?

Question...Why you?

Question...Why is your interpretation more valid than all the others and

Actually none in the line would be right, only God would be right. (that is said in a non snotty manner btw) Also what I said a sec ago.

why is your interpretation more valid than that of an atheist?"

While a atheist can certainly ask good questions. I would have to go with a person whom knows God as being more valid. For example: Because if you own a horse and I do not, how can I say what a horse is like to own?. One can only discuss so much without the experience.

However, I can give you an example of your scenario. I have a good friend who is a atheist. She has another friend whom is christian, I have not met the other lady. This is not a trick I have nothing up my sleeve! Anyway I was not aware of this but the atheist was trying to catch us by asking questions from each of us, without us knowing what she was up to.

She finally admitted her plan and said that the both of us were driving her nuts. Because we agreed on everything without ever having met. Ta Da

In case you think she was asking dumb questions, I remember a 3 hr each way day trip being bombarded with questions amoungst other times.

jimmygun · 25th October 2004, 01:56 AM

Says Kitty Chan...

"how do you know for sure you will get everyone to say something different, Im not saying they will be all the same but odds are they wont all be different. And what about similar things, what if they say the same idea just in a different way? "

Having heard somewhere that there are in excess of 20,000 different Christian sects, denominations, whatever, you could have representatives of each lined up and ask the same questions. That way you are sure to get 11,294 plus different interpretations of the bible.

If an atheist has been through the Christian experience and ended up an atheist would you consider his/her opinions valid? One of the biggest mistakes that theists make is to assume that atheists just fall out of a tree somewhere, that they have never heard the word of God and would in an instant convert to Christianity if they only knew. It is my experience that most atheists are those that have given the word of God long and serious thought and have chosen their stance.

jimmygun · 25th October 2004, 01:59 AM

TeaBag420...issues?

Question · 25th October 2004, 02:09 AM

-- Post could not be deleted. Why? --

El Greco · 25th October 2004, 02:13 AM

I think that theists have already decided that a significant part of their life will be based on faith and not logic. You are asking a legitimate question, jimmygun, but I think that in the absence of any convincing explanation it is very easy for the theist to pull this question out of the "pool of logic" and throw it in the "pool of faith". I have asked similar questions to theists and I have noticed that many of them tend to shift the responsibility of interpreting the X holy book to other, more "qualified" authorities, like pastors or theologians. They are sure that there IS one truth, and the fact that their logic cannot extract it with absolute certainty does not seem to bother them. Besides, this is the whole point of schools of theology: to decide on a common interpretation of various scriptures, something that the bulk of believers cannot do.

Kitty Chan · 25th October 2004, 06:26 AM

I asked because at first you said "Put all the people professing a belief in the bible in a row"

which is different than what you are saying now "you could have representatives of each" (sect).

Thus why I asked, I will get back to you

c4ts · 25th October 2004, 06:29 AM

Every sect of Christianity believes the Bible is true. It's their interpretations that differ.

jimmygun · 25th October 2004, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by El Greco
I think that theists have already decided that a significant part of their life will be based on faith and not logic. You are asking a legitimate question, jimmygun, but I think that in the absence of any convincing explanation it is very easy for the theist to pull this question out of the "pool of logic" and throw it in the "pool of faith". I have asked similar questions to theists and I have noticed that many of them tend to shift the responsibility of interpreting the X holy book to other, more "qualified" authorities, like pastors or theologians. They are sure that there IS one truth, and the fact that their logic cannot extract it with absolute certainty does not seem to bother them. Besides, this is the whole point of schools of theology: to decide on a common interpretation of various scriptures, something that the bulk of believers cannot do.

Still one must plug on must'nt one.

jimmygun · 25th October 2004, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by c4ts
Every sect of Christianity believes the Bible is true. It's their interpretations that differ.

What do you mean by true?

c4ts · 25th October 2004, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jimmygun
What do you mean by true?

Exactly.

Seismosaurus · 25th October 2004, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jimmygun
I posed this question to 1inC in his "I will answer any question about the bible" thread. He has so far declined to answer that one and many many others.

I will repeat it here for any theist that may care to take a stab at it...

"Put all the people professing a belief in the bible in a row, shoulder to shoulder. Lets say you are number 11,294. The first 11,293 give me different interpretations. You give me the 11,294th interpretation of the bible. Continuing down the line I get a different interpretation from everyone in the line.

Question...Who is right?

Question...Why you?

Question...Why is your interpretation more valid than all the others and why is your interpretation more valid than that of an atheist?"

Well I'm an atheist myself but I recently had this conversation with a fundie and here's his answer paraphrased.

According to him, this question is like saying "Say I ask fifty different people what 1+1 is; you say it is 2, the other 49 give various different answers. Who is right? Why you? Why is your answer more correct?"

Your question is presupposing that all interpretations of the bible are fairly arbitrary, with one much as good as another. But to the fundy, this is simply not the case. He views his interpretation as correct and all others as wrong - in fact to him, his views are not even an interpretation at all. He is simply following what the bible says directly and exactly, it is all others who twist it. It's no different than answering that you should believe his answer to 1+1 simply because it 2 IS the right answer, and your question only shows that you don't understand the topic well enough to realise it.

Now this argument is nonsense of course, but that's how the fundies see it from what I can tell.

crimresearch · 25th October 2004, 10:07 AM

Since the different beliefs in the 'truth' of religion are not predicated on demonstrable, replicable, proof in the rational sense, they operate on some sort of faith based logic.

And that means each believing individual would have to have faith that his, her's,or the group's version is the right one, even if just for the present moment.

Sort of the inverse of the willing acceptance of disbelief...
A willingness to buy into the chosen belief system provides some sort of anchor, attached to which any number of irrational concepts can seem rational.

Seismosaurus · 25th October 2004, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by crimresearch
Since the different beliefs in the 'truth' of religion are not predicated on demonstrable, replicable, proof in the rational sense, they operate on some sort of faith based logic.

And that means each believing individual would have to have faith that his, her's,or the group's version is the right one, even if just for the present moment.

Yes, but that's not how THEY see it. They may say that whether you believe in god or not is a matter of faith, but in the detail of how you follow God's word, it's very simple. From their point of view, you read the book, you do what it says. End of story. The outsider can see that this is what everybody else says and that each interpretation is pretty much as good as the others, but to the fundie that's just like saying that there really is no correct answer to 1+1.

As for proof... well the fundie regards such things as "fifty people died in the bus crash but one survived" as proof of god's existence.

Kitty Chan · 25th October 2004, 02:15 PM

Not every sect believes the Bible, they may use portions of it but not the whole. Wiccans, Muslims and others even use it.

If in your line of people they all believed in the whole Bible not just what they want pulled from it OR if they have another book that superscedes it.

Then what you would find is a common thread with difference of opinion on cultural things, styles of worship, end time views, different emphasis on spiritual gifts. As long as the basic creed is agreed upon (which it would if the above is true) the rest while important is not what actually matters, but something like the creed does.

Now if you want to put in those to your line that like bits and pieces of the bible, but only to add or support their own ideas then yea it would be a interesting day. May even look like a web forum.

Kitty Chan · 25th October 2004, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Seismosaurus
As for proof... well the fundie regards such things as "fifty people died in the bus crash but one survived" as proof of god's existence.

Who said that?

25th October 2004, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kitty Chan
Who said that?

You don't pay attention to the news, do you?

Horrible tragedy occurs, 'n' people die. Survivor or family member of mangled survivor in hospital interviewed: "God was looking out for me/{insert name}."

25th October 2004, 02:54 PM

Quick google for 'accident' and 'god'... there are hundreds of these stories a day. The gods must be busy.

They don't even have a positive outcome to 'prove god' for these people, come to think of it.

http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=7272

Quote:

"Jokin was an affectionate person, always without problems and one who could not be sad. That is not common among sportsmen because there is a lot of pressure in a team. But he was always cheerful. I had affection for him," the director said to EFE radio. "It was perhaps good that God has preferred to take him away from me, for His own team," Moreno said.

http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/p...46/1001/NEWS01

Quote:

"To be alive today, I know that is not an accident," said Murenzi , who believes that if she had stayed in Rwanda, her cancer would have gone undetected. "To be alive, it is a gift from God."

http://www.heraldstandard.com/site/n...d=480247&rfi=6

Quote:

Jones said his life has changed dramatically since the accident. And while the physical changes are more evident, he also is different spiritually. He said he has become more religious, believing wholeheartedly that God is responsible for his progress.

"God got so tired of hearing Jeffrey Jones that he said, 'Heal this boy. I gotta get some sleep,'" his mother said jokingly.

http://www.pakistanchristianpost.com....php?artid=207

Quote:

Today, the 23rd of October 2004 a â€œsub-leaderâ€ followed me to Lahore where I had gone for funeral service of a relative, again invited me to â€œjoin inâ€ Presbyterian Church of Pakistan. I declined the offer, as I feel insulted being identified with the â€œbusiness mindedâ€ leadership of Presbyterian Church of Pakistan, where leaders do not retire even after crossing age limit. Here I refer the National Council of Churches of Pakistan (NCCP) and Texilla Christian Hospital. This bad â€œOmenâ€ followed me on my way back to Gujranwala and I escaped a fatal accident on Motor Way, trying to avoid collision with another car that suddenly met an accident due to front tire bursting at the speed of 120 Kilo Meters an hour. My son was able to avoid a major accident yet we suffered some damage to our car. I was traveling with my son, daughter-in-law and five year old grandson. None of us was injured however the passengers of the other car sustained minor injuries. Lord God saved us all.

http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/sports/10007306.htm

Quote:

"I have thought, 'Why me,' but you try not to," Bridges said. "God has a plan for everything, I guess, so you go with it. I'm only 16, so maybe this is it.

I liked this one....

http://www.littlefallstimes.com/arti...news/news2.txt

Quote:

Near the end, he claimed to have seen his late father. Strzelczyk spoke about how life revolved around God. He made a 16-foot crucifix and wore a smaller cross around his neck. "It was strange, but does finding God make somebody crazy?" Keana Strzelczyk said. "He was speaking different, but he had such clarity in his voice. His eyes were sparkling again."

jimmygun · 25th October 2004, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kitty Chan
Not every sect believes the Bible, they may use portions of it but not the whole. Wiccans, Muslims and others even use it.

If in your line of people they all believed in the whole Bible not just what they want pulled from it OR if they have another book that superscedes it.

Then what you would find is a common thread with difference of opinion on cultural things, styles of worship, end time views, different emphasis on spiritual gifts. As long as the basic creed is agreed upon (which it would if the above is true) the rest while important is not what actually matters, but something like the creed does.

Now if you want to put in those to your line that like bits and pieces of the bible, but only to add or support their own ideas then yea it would be a interesting day. May even look like a web forum.

I assume that everyone picks and chooses what part of the bible they will believe in and what part is of little or no consequence. This is exactly my point. For every person who reads the bible there is a different but equal opinion of what the bible says. From the most dogmatic fundimentalist to the atheist, all (to me) are equal in their interpretation. Any further discussion of who is right and who is wrong would involve the presentation of evidence. Read my signature.

Kitty Chan · 25th October 2004, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by Seismosaurus
As for proof... well the fundie regards such things as "fifty people died in the bus crash but one survived" as proof of god's existence.

Quote:

Originally posted by evildave
You don't pay attention to the news, do you?

Horrible tragedy occurs, 'n' people die. Survivor or family member of mangled survivor in hospital interviewed: "God was looking out for me/{insert name}."

I was asking who specifically said the fifty people died in bus comment. The others you quote are not quite as impressive as that one. Or was it just made up for effect??

Seismosaurus · 25th October 2004, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kitty Chan
Originally posted by Seismosaurus
As for proof... well the fundie regards such things as "fifty people died in the bus crash but one survived" as proof of god's existence.

I was asking who specifically said the fifty people died in bus comment. The others you quote are not quite as impressive as that one. Or was it just made up for effect??

It was a generic example. That's why i said things such as that.

But it's not that over the top really. I mean, I remember people saying god was working a miracle because they were running late and missed being in the WTC on 9/11.

Kitty Chan · 25th October 2004, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jimmygun
I assume that everyone picks and chooses what part of the bible they will believe in and what part is of little or no consequence. This is exactly my point. For every person who reads the bible there is a different but equal opinion of what the bible says. From the most dogmatic fundimentalist to the atheist, all (to me) are equal in their interpretation. Any further discussion of who is right and who is wrong would involve the presentation of evidence. Read my signature.

Well I still go with what I said earlier, that if those that pull out what they want would be a interesting line. Those that believe the whole book would be a different line up.

As for your sig I guess Im opposite I looked to evolution to find what REALLY happened and found it was lacking any solid proof and was still theroies. So eventually I chose a theory that made the most sense to my heart because actually both require faith because neither has definative proof.

Kitty Chan · 25th October 2004, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Seismosaurus
It was a generic example. That's why i said things such as that.

But it's not that over the top really. I mean, I remember people saying god was working a miracle because they were running late and missed being in the WTC on 9/11.

Now theres a good comment, I cant agree with them saying its a miricle because they were late, but truthfully I dont know for sure. But since it seems mean, I would have to say the miricles that day was the comfort and care strangers gave to one another. Those that were late I would have to borrow a line from Private Ryan and thats "make it count" that you lived.

Maybe the other miricles were the rest of the planes didnt hit their bigger targets.

Cosmo · 25th October 2004, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kitty Chan
Now theres a good comment, I cant agree with them saying its a miricle because they were late, but truthfully I dont know for sure. But since it seems mean, I would have to say the miricles that day was the comfort and care strangers gave to one another. Those that were late I would have to borrow a line from Private Ryan and thats "make it count" that you lived.

Maybe the other miricles were the rest of the planes didnt hit their bigger targets.

[dictionary.com]
mirÂ·aÂ·cle Â_Â_n. An event that appears inexplicable by the laws of nature and so is held to be supernatural in origin or an act of God
[/dictionary.com]

How is it a miracle that they were late to work, or that the other planes didn't hit? In the case of the former, sheer blind luck and random chance seem a far more logical explanation - perhaps the train was late, or they had to stop for gas in the car, and so forth.

In the case of the latter, it was more likely the efforts of the people on board the planes. A family friend of mine lost a brother on 9/11. He was on the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania, and minutes before he died, he called her on his cell phone and told her that he was getting together with some other passengers to storm the cockpit. It seems that they were successful.

Scary? Yes.
Miracle? No.

Piscivore · 25th October 2004, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kitty Chan
I would have to say the miricles that day was the comfort and care strangers gave to one another.

Maybe the other miricles were the rest of the planes didnt hit their bigger targets.

Kitty, I've told you before I consider you a shining example of the best a Christian could be, but I have to take issue with these statements. These were examples of human decency, compassion, and courage. Nothing "miraculous" about it at all. (Okay, it was New York, but still

)

If that's the best "miracle" god can pull off these days, who needs him?

25th October 2004, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kitty Chan
Originally posted by Seismosaurus
As for proof... well the fundie regards such things as "fifty people died in the bus crash but one survived" as proof of god's existence.

I was asking who specifically said the fifty people died in bus comment. The others you quote are not quite as impressive as that one. Or was it just made up for effect??

Oh, sorry, bus related god quotes it is...

In recent news, 45 injured children seems to be about as close as it gets to the figure.

http://www.wistv.com/global/Story.asp?s=2405673

Quote:

(Winnsboro) Oct. 8, 2004 - Some 45 students from were taken McCorey-Liston Elementary School in Fairfield County were taken to Midlands hospitals Thursday, most with minor injuries, after the South Carolina Highway Patrol says a 10-wheel service delivery truck ran a stop sign and collided with a school bus.

...

They're lucky to be alive, and I just thank God there were no casualties with the children. It's just a blessing that the children are still alive."

http://www.memphisflyer.com/content....035&onthefly=1

Quote:

John Edward Coney of McComb, Mississippi -- whose mother, Maxie Lyons, was among the dead and whose father, Billy Joe Lyons was being cared for at The Med -- was doing his best to be philosophical. â€œI was brought up not to question Godâ€™s will, but at a time like this, you have to wonder why,â€ he said.

http://cities.expressindia.com/fulls...?newsid=103963

Quote:

"â€˜Anything could have happened â€” the bus could have gone on straight and mowed down vehicles in front, the bus could have plunged into the river. By Godâ€™s Grace, no one was injured. So many passengers were saved from a horrible fate,â€™â€™ says Barathe.

15 Dead on Casino Trip - (15 rhymes with 50)
http://www.dhonline.com/articles/200...tion/nat01.txt

Quote:

"This thing that happened, nobody has an answer for. All we can do is direct them to God,'' said the Rev. Curtis Reed, who was serving as a family spokesman.

Same Crash, Earlier Death Toll
http://cbs2chicago.com/topstories/lo...285182004.html

Quote:

â€œFirst of all, I thank God that I am among the land of the living because I did not have to be here,â€ said Twanda Frazier, 58, who is the first passenger to be able to speak about the accident.

A couple of sites just for bus plunges... but seem to be edited down from the original content, some of which will certainly have had the gratuitous 'praise god' quotes in them.
http://users.lmi.net/tcs55/
http://users.rcn.com/tcs.interport/

Piscivore · 25th October 2004, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by evildave
"This thing that happened, nobody has an answer for. All we can do is direct them to God,'' said the Rev. Curtis Reed, who was serving as a family spokesman.

Finally, a theist that seems ready to take his god to task for the magical mystery crapfest that is our world. If he's going to have a god, at least he's willing to place blame where it belongs.

Kitty Chan · 26th October 2004, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kitty Chan
I cant agree with them saying its a miricle because they were late, but truthfully I dont know for sure.

Just to be sure I said I didnt agree to call it a miracle (I cant even spell the word right

)

Kitty Chan · 26th October 2004, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kitty Chan
But since it seems mean, I would have to say the miricles that day was the comfort and care strangers gave to one another. Those that were late I would have to borrow a line from Private Ryan and thats "make it count" that you lived.

Maybe the other miricles were the rest of the planes didnt hit their bigger targets.

Ok I will clarify I didnt realise I was tossing the miracle word around I guess cause I cant spelt it I recked it.

So I will say your right Cosmo on the defination, I stand corrected.

I was trying to point out what was more important on that day and that was the sacrifice of people.

And it would be more accurate to say that day it showed the depth possible that people can attain in showing comfort, care, love to one another.

And for what its worth Cosmo we closed our company on 9-11 and sent everyone home immediately, not for protection but respect. We hung an American Flag in our window for months.

Kitty Chan · 26th October 2004, 07:57 PM

Originally posted by Seismosaurus
As for proof... well the fundie regards such things as "fifty people died in the bus crash but one survived" as proof of god's existence.

Dave I was commenting on what is above and that for someone to say that 50 people died but 1 lived is

"proof of Gods existance "

is wrong.

Thats why I asked who said it.

As for bad things happening on buses and whatever, and people are praising God. Yes really stupid right? It bugged me too. Thank God and praise Him? Not stupid really.

When one has trouble straight away they actually curse God for the situation, life in general, people who dont help, your boss, coworkers, spouse, friend, the guy in the street, your dog, government everyone but the man in the mirror for the situation.

Its easy to praise God when the sun is shining and alls well. But its harder when its raining and you're out of gas. When one says thanks to God in all situations, then in the bad ones, it takes you outside your problems to see a bigger picture of whats going on.

And then solutions come easier when you are not cursing and complaining on how bad you got it. Thats why praise God in all things, thats what the people are doing.

Whether one agrees or not that is the reason for praising God in all things.

Cosmo · 26th October 2004, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kitty Chan
When one has trouble straight away they actually curse God for the situation, life in general, people who dont help, your boss, coworkers, spouse, friend, the guy in the street, your dog, government everyone but the man in the mirror for the situation.

Agreed. People tend to blame others instead of themselves.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kitty Chan
Its easy to praise God when the sun is shining and alls well. But its harder when its raining and you're out of gas. When one says thanks to God in all situations, then in the bad ones, it takes you outside your problems to see a bigger picture of whats going on.

When "the sun is shining and alls well" I'm not praising god. I enjoy the day for what it is and take a walk to enjoy the weather. I don't see any reason to invoke any deity in this case.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kitty Chan
And then solutions come easier when you are not cursing and complaining on how bad you got it. Thats why praise God in all things, thats what the people are doing.

Whether one agrees or not that is the reason for praising God in all things.

Speak for yourself. Not everyone feels the need to praise God for everything good that happens, moreover, not everyone believes the guy exists in the first place.

Kitty Chan · 26th October 2004, 08:18 PM

Cosmo

Im just explaining what the people who do the praising are on about, thats why I said that even if you dont agree thats why THEY do what they do.

1inChrist · 26th October 2004, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jimmygun
I posed this question to 1inC in his "I will answer any question about the bible" thread. He has so far declined to answer that one and many many others.

I will repeat it here for any theist that may care to take a stab at it...

"Put all the people professing a belief in the bible in a row, shoulder to shoulder. Lets say you are number 11,294. The first 11,293 give me different interpretations. You give me the 11,294th interpretation of the bible. Continuing down the line I get a different interpretation from everyone in the line.

Question...Who is right?

Question...Why you?

Question...Why is your interpretation more valid than all the others and why is your interpretation more valid than that of an atheist?"

BROTHER YOU MUST READ THE WORD AND INTERPRET IT YOUR OWN WAY. YOU MUST INVITE THE HOLY GHOST INTO YOUR HEART SO HE MAY HELP YOU UNDERSTAND GOD'S MESSAGE! YOU MUST MEDITATE AND THINK LONG AND HARD ABOUT HIS WORD. DO NOT FOLLOW A CHURCH. DO NOT ALLOW ANY MIDDLE MAN IN YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD! READ AND INTERPRET HIS WORD YOUR OWN WAY. ALWAYS REMEMBER BROTHER, GOD LOVES YOU!

Cosmo · 26th October 2004, 08:33 PM

With 1inC's new posting style of large, capitalized, colored letters, I think he's left the realm of moderately annoying, occasionally funny posting and graduated into the land of cataract-causing, pain-inducing, where's-the-user-ignore-button trolling.

1inChrist · 26th October 2004, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cosmo
With 1inC's new posting style of large, capitalized, colored letters, I think he's left the realm of moderately annoying, occasionally funny posting and graduated into the land of cataract-causing, pain-inducing, where's-the-user-ignore-button trolling.

I think you've left the realm of moderately ignorant to hardcore BUFFOON!

Kitty Chan · 26th October 2004, 08:38 PM

1inChrist

What do you mean interpet in YOUR own way.

How can it be your own way if its the Holy Ghost who directs you.

Wouldnt it be Gods way not yours?

If you mean study the Word and prayfully consider the words, ask for help to understand what you read. And talk to other christians about what you discovered in the Word to learn and confirm you are on the path. Surf the net go to Billy Grahams site see what he says about the subject.

If you say you do not need others then I would ask you what Gods Word says about accountability? How would you answer that?

Kitty Chan · 26th October 2004, 08:41 PM

Also, can you explain to me how calling Cosmo a buffon is in accordance with seeing others how Christ sees them??

Or thinking of things that are pure and lovely?

1inChrist · 26th October 2004, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kitty Chan
1inChrist

What do you mean interpet in YOUR own way.

Do not use middle men.

Quote:

How can it be your own way if its the Holy Ghost who directs you.

It's not your way but I am speaking at a skeptic's level. Listen, it's easy to identify those who merely have an interpretation from those who actually had God's hand guide them through His Word.

Quote:

Wouldnt it be Gods way not yours?

Yes but I am speaking at a human level. The skeptic does not understand this much yet and still has the illusion that they are the higher authority.

Quote:

If you mean study the Word and prayfully consider the words, ask for help to understand what you read. And talk to other christians about what you discovered in the Word to learn and confirm you are on the path. Surf the net go to Billy Grahams site see what he says about the subject.

I do not care what Billy Graham has to say.

Quote:

If you say you do not need others then I would ask you what Gods Word says about accountability? How would you answer that? [/b]

Of what?

1inChrist · 26th October 2004, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kitty Chan
Also, can you explain to me how calling Cosmo a buffon is in accordance with seeing others how Christ sees them??

Or thinking of things that are pure and lovely?

Who said I was perfect? I call them as I see them. Cosmo is 100% pure buffoon.

24th October 2004, 04:40 PM	#1
jimmygun Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,589	A sincere question for any theist... I posed this question to 1inC in his "I will answer any question about the bible" thread. He has so far declined to answer that one and many many others. I will repeat it here for any theist that may care to take a stab at it... "Put all the people professing a belief in the bible in a row, shoulder to shoulder. Lets say you are number 11,294. The first 11,293 give me different interpretations. You give me the 11,294th interpretation of the bible. Continuing down the line I get a different interpretation from everyone in the line. Question...Who is right? Question...Why you? Question...Why is your interpretation more valid than all the others and why is your interpretation more valid than that of an atheist?"
	__________________ Jimmygun I have been referred to as a non-believer. I prefer the term 'Non-pretender'

24th October 2004, 10:35 PM	#2
TeaBag420 Banned Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,125	Re: A sincere question for any theist... Quote: Originally posted by jimmygun I posed this question to 1inC in his "I will answer any question about the bible" thread. He has so far declined to answer that one and many many others. I will repeat it here for any theist that may care to take a stab at it... "Put all the people professing a belief in the bible in a row, shoulder to shoulder. Lets say you are number 11,294. The first 11,293 give me different interpretations. You give me the 11,294th interpretation of the bible. Continuing down the line I get a different interpretation from everyone in the line. Question...Who is right? Question...Why you? Question...Why is your interpretation more valid than all the others and why is your interpretation more valid than that of an atheist?" This is ridiculously easy. Because I am a Prophet and have a hotline to God. A common concept in Judaism and Islam, less popular in Christianity. Although it should be added that Islam considers Muhammad to be the last Prophet. What if my interpretation is "Why are you so focused on the Bible, since there are other theists who don't even think about the Bible? Did the Bible touch you where your bathing suit covers?" What about that, huh? Okay, everybody, back to the circle jerk. This is why I no longer read Mr. Randi's commentaries. Too much preaching to the converted. Just because you're right doesn't mean you have to say it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over, like a boot stamping on a human face, forever.
TeaBag420 Banned Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,125

24th October 2004, 11:50 PM	#3
Kitty Chan Muse Join Date: May 2004 Location: up north in Alberta Posts: 826	Re: A sincere question for any theist... Quote: Originally posted by jimmygun I posed this question to 1inC in his "I will answer any question about the bible" thread. He has so far declined to answer that one and many many others. I will repeat it here for any theist that may care to take a stab at it... "Put all the people professing a belief in the bible in a row, shoulder to shoulder. Lets say you are number 11,294. The first 11,293 give me different interpretations. You give me the 11,294th interpretation of the bible. Continuing down the line I get a different interpretation from everyone in the line. how do you know for sure you will get everyone to say something different, Im not saying they will be all the same but odds are they wont all be different. And what about similar things, what if they say the same idea just in a different way? Question...Who is right? Question...Why you? Question...Why is your interpretation more valid than all the others and Actually none in the line would be right, only God would be right. (that is said in a non snotty manner btw) Also what I said a sec ago. why is your interpretation more valid than that of an atheist?" While a atheist can certainly ask good questions. I would have to go with a person whom knows God as being more valid. For example: Because if you own a horse and I do not, how can I say what a horse is like to own?. One can only discuss so much without the experience. However, I can give you an example of your scenario. I have a good friend who is a atheist. She has another friend whom is christian, I have not met the other lady. This is not a trick I have nothing up my sleeve! Anyway I was not aware of this but the atheist was trying to catch us by asking questions from each of us, without us knowing what she was up to. She finally admitted her plan and said that the both of us were driving her nuts. Because we agreed on everything without ever having met. Ta Da In case you think she was asking dumb questions, I remember a 3 hr each way day trip being bombarded with questions amoungst other times.
	__________________ Havent thought of one yet but, when I do . . . I will put it here How about, Labels are for soup cans

25th October 2004, 01:56 AM	#4
jimmygun Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,589	Says Kitty Chan... "how do you know for sure you will get everyone to say something different, Im not saying they will be all the same but odds are they wont all be different. And what about similar things, what if they say the same idea just in a different way? " Having heard somewhere that there are in excess of 20,000 different Christian sects, denominations, whatever, you could have representatives of each lined up and ask the same questions. That way you are sure to get 11,294 plus different interpretations of the bible. If an atheist has been through the Christian experience and ended up an atheist would you consider his/her opinions valid? One of the biggest mistakes that theists make is to assume that atheists just fall out of a tree somewhere, that they have never heard the word of God and would in an instant convert to Christianity if they only knew. It is my experience that most atheists are those that have given the word of God long and serious thought and have chosen their stance.
	__________________ Jimmygun I have been referred to as a non-believer. I prefer the term 'Non-pretender'

25th October 2004, 01:59 AM	#5
jimmygun Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,589	TeaBag420...issues?
	__________________ Jimmygun I have been referred to as a non-believer. I prefer the term 'Non-pretender'

25th October 2004, 02:09 AM	#6
Question Guest Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 419	-- Post could not be deleted. Why? --
Question Guest Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 419

25th October 2004, 02:13 AM	#7
El Greco Summer worshipper Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Παρά θιν'αλός Posts: 14,307	I think that theists have already decided that a significant part of their life will be based on faith and not logic. You are asking a legitimate question, jimmygun, but I think that in the absence of any convincing explanation it is very easy for the theist to pull this question out of the "pool of logic" and throw it in the "pool of faith". I have asked similar questions to theists and I have noticed that many of them tend to shift the responsibility of interpreting the X holy book to other, more "qualified" authorities, like pastors or theologians. They are sure that there IS one truth, and the fact that their logic cannot extract it with absolute certainty does not seem to bother them. Besides, this is the whole point of schools of theology: to decide on a common interpretation of various scriptures, something that the bulk of believers cannot do.
	__________________ "Robbing a bank is no crime compared to owning one" - Bertolt Brecht "Let it go and come to bed already, El Greco" - MoeFaux

25th October 2004, 06:26 AM	#8
Kitty Chan Muse Join Date: May 2004 Location: up north in Alberta Posts: 826	I asked because at first you said "Put all the people professing a belief in the bible in a row" which is different than what you are saying now "you could have representatives of each" (sect). Thus why I asked, I will get back to you
	__________________ Havent thought of one yet but, when I do . . . I will put it here How about, Labels are for soup cans

25th October 2004, 06:29 AM	#9
c4ts Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Your base Posts: 8,427	Every sect of Christianity believes the Bible is true. It's their interpretations that differ.
	__________________ Ha ha ha ha.... Stupid signature size limit.

25th October 2004, 07:01 AM	#10
jimmygun Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,589	Quote: Originally posted by El Greco I think that theists have already decided that a significant part of their life will be based on faith and not logic. You are asking a legitimate question, jimmygun, but I think that in the absence of any convincing explanation it is very easy for the theist to pull this question out of the "pool of logic" and throw it in the "pool of faith". I have asked similar questions to theists and I have noticed that many of them tend to shift the responsibility of interpreting the X holy book to other, more "qualified" authorities, like pastors or theologians. They are sure that there IS one truth, and the fact that their logic cannot extract it with absolute certainty does not seem to bother them. Besides, this is the whole point of schools of theology: to decide on a common interpretation of various scriptures, something that the bulk of believers cannot do. Still one must plug on must'nt one.
	__________________ Jimmygun I have been referred to as a non-believer. I prefer the term 'Non-pretender'

25th October 2004, 07:02 AM	#11
jimmygun Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,589	Quote: Originally posted by c4ts Every sect of Christianity believes the Bible is true. It's their interpretations that differ. What do you mean by true?
	__________________ Jimmygun I have been referred to as a non-believer. I prefer the term 'Non-pretender'

25th October 2004, 07:38 AM	#12
c4ts Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Your base Posts: 8,427	Quote: Originally posted by jimmygun What do you mean by true? Exactly.
	__________________ Ha ha ha ha.... Stupid signature size limit.

25th October 2004, 09:57 AM	#13
Seismosaurus Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Banbury Posts: 3,549	Re: A sincere question for any theist... Quote: Originally posted by jimmygun I posed this question to 1inC in his "I will answer any question about the bible" thread. He has so far declined to answer that one and many many others. I will repeat it here for any theist that may care to take a stab at it... "Put all the people professing a belief in the bible in a row, shoulder to shoulder. Lets say you are number 11,294. The first 11,293 give me different interpretations. You give me the 11,294th interpretation of the bible. Continuing down the line I get a different interpretation from everyone in the line. Question...Who is right? Question...Why you? Question...Why is your interpretation more valid than all the others and why is your interpretation more valid than that of an atheist?" Well I'm an atheist myself but I recently had this conversation with a fundie and here's his answer paraphrased. According to him, this question is like saying "Say I ask fifty different people what 1+1 is; you say it is 2, the other 49 give various different answers. Who is right? Why you? Why is your answer more correct?" Your question is presupposing that all interpretations of the bible are fairly arbitrary, with one much as good as another. But to the fundy, this is simply not the case. He views his interpretation as correct and all others as wrong - in fact to him, his views are not even an interpretation at all. He is simply following what the bible says directly and exactly, it is all others who twist it. It's no different than answering that you should believe his answer to 1+1 simply because it 2 IS the right answer, and your question only shows that you don't understand the topic well enough to realise it. Now this argument is nonsense of course, but that's how the fundies see it from what I can tell.
	__________________ Promise of diamonds in eyes of coal She carries beauty in her soul

25th October 2004, 10:07 AM	#14
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618	Since the different beliefs in the 'truth' of religion are not predicated on demonstrable, replicable, proof in the rational sense, they operate on some sort of faith based logic. And that means each believing individual would have to have faith that his, her's,or the group's version is the right one, even if just for the present moment. Sort of the inverse of the willing acceptance of disbelief... A willingness to buy into the chosen belief system provides some sort of anchor, attached to which any number of irrational concepts can seem rational.
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618

25th October 2004, 11:25 AM	#15
Seismosaurus Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Banbury Posts: 3,549	Quote: Originally posted by crimresearch Since the different beliefs in the 'truth' of religion are not predicated on demonstrable, replicable, proof in the rational sense, they operate on some sort of faith based logic. And that means each believing individual would have to have faith that his, her's,or the group's version is the right one, even if just for the present moment. Yes, but that's not how THEY see it. They may say that whether you believe in god or not is a matter of faith, but in the detail of how you follow God's word, it's very simple. From their point of view, you read the book, you do what it says. End of story. The outsider can see that this is what everybody else says and that each interpretation is pretty much as good as the others, but to the fundie that's just like saying that there really is no correct answer to 1+1. As for proof... well the fundie regards such things as "fifty people died in the bus crash but one survived" as proof of god's existence.
	__________________ Promise of diamonds in eyes of coal She carries beauty in her soul

25th October 2004, 02:15 PM	#16
Kitty Chan Muse Join Date: May 2004 Location: up north in Alberta Posts: 826	Not every sect believes the Bible, they may use portions of it but not the whole. Wiccans, Muslims and others even use it. If in your line of people they all believed in the whole Bible not just what they want pulled from it OR if they have another book that superscedes it. Then what you would find is a common thread with difference of opinion on cultural things, styles of worship, end time views, different emphasis on spiritual gifts. As long as the basic creed is agreed upon (which it would if the above is true) the rest while important is not what actually matters, but something like the creed does. Now if you want to put in those to your line that like bits and pieces of the bible, but only to add or support their own ideas then yea it would be a interesting day. May even look like a web forum.
	__________________ Havent thought of one yet but, when I do . . . I will put it here How about, Labels are for soup cans

25th October 2004, 02:20 PM	#17
Kitty Chan Muse Join Date: May 2004 Location: up north in Alberta Posts: 826	Quote: Originally posted by Seismosaurus As for proof... well the fundie regards such things as "fifty people died in the bus crash but one survived" as proof of god's existence. Who said that?
	__________________ Havent thought of one yet but, when I do . . . I will put it here How about, Labels are for soup cans

25th October 2004, 02:39 PM	#18
evildave Guest Posts: n/a	Quote: Originally posted by Kitty Chan Who said that? You don't pay attention to the news, do you? Horrible tragedy occurs, 'n' people die. Survivor or family member of mangled survivor in hospital interviewed: "God was looking out for me/{insert name}."
evildave Guest Posts: n/a

25th October 2004, 02:54 PM	#19
evildave Guest Posts: n/a	Quick google for 'accident' and 'god'... there are hundreds of these stories a day. The gods must be busy. They don't even have a positive outcome to 'prove god' for these people, come to think of it. http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=7272 Quote: "Jokin was an affectionate person, always without problems and one who could not be sad. That is not common among sportsmen because there is a lot of pressure in a team. But he was always cheerful. I had affection for him," the director said to EFE radio. "It was perhaps good that God has preferred to take him away from me, for His own team," Moreno said. http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/p...46/1001/NEWS01 Quote: "To be alive today, I know that is not an accident," said Murenzi , who believes that if she had stayed in Rwanda, her cancer would have gone undetected. "To be alive, it is a gift from God." http://www.heraldstandard.com/site/n...d=480247&rfi=6 Quote: Jones said his life has changed dramatically since the accident. And while the physical changes are more evident, he also is different spiritually. He said he has become more religious, believing wholeheartedly that God is responsible for his progress. "God got so tired of hearing Jeffrey Jones that he said, 'Heal this boy. I gotta get some sleep,'" his mother said jokingly. http://www.pakistanchristianpost.com....php?artid=207 Quote: Today, the 23rd of October 2004 a â€œsub-leaderâ€ followed me to Lahore where I had gone for funeral service of a relative, again invited me to â€œjoin inâ€ Presbyterian Church of Pakistan. I declined the offer, as I feel insulted being identified with the â€œbusiness mindedâ€ leadership of Presbyterian Church of Pakistan, where leaders do not retire even after crossing age limit. Here I refer the National Council of Churches of Pakistan (NCCP) and Texilla Christian Hospital. This bad â€œOmenâ€ followed me on my way back to Gujranwala and I escaped a fatal accident on Motor Way, trying to avoid collision with another car that suddenly met an accident due to front tire bursting at the speed of 120 Kilo Meters an hour. My son was able to avoid a major accident yet we suffered some damage to our car. I was traveling with my son, daughter-in-law and five year old grandson. None of us was injured however the passengers of the other car sustained minor injuries. Lord God saved us all. http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/sports/10007306.htm Quote: "I have thought, 'Why me,' but you try not to," Bridges said. "God has a plan for everything, I guess, so you go with it. I'm only 16, so maybe this is it. I liked this one.... http://www.littlefallstimes.com/arti...news/news2.txt Quote: Near the end, he claimed to have seen his late father. Strzelczyk spoke about how life revolved around God. He made a 16-foot crucifix and wore a smaller cross around his neck. "It was strange, but does finding God make somebody crazy?" Keana Strzelczyk said. "He was speaking different, but he had such clarity in his voice. His eyes were sparkling again."
evildave Guest Posts: n/a

25th October 2004, 03:21 PM	#20
jimmygun Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,589	Quote: Originally posted by Kitty Chan Not every sect believes the Bible, they may use portions of it but not the whole. Wiccans, Muslims and others even use it. If in your line of people they all believed in the whole Bible not just what they want pulled from it OR if they have another book that superscedes it. Then what you would find is a common thread with difference of opinion on cultural things, styles of worship, end time views, different emphasis on spiritual gifts. As long as the basic creed is agreed upon (which it would if the above is true) the rest while important is not what actually matters, but something like the creed does. Now if you want to put in those to your line that like bits and pieces of the bible, but only to add or support their own ideas then yea it would be a interesting day. May even look like a web forum. I assume that everyone picks and chooses what part of the bible they will believe in and what part is of little or no consequence. This is exactly my point. For every person who reads the bible there is a different but equal opinion of what the bible says. From the most dogmatic fundimentalist to the atheist, all (to me) are equal in their interpretation. Any further discussion of who is right and who is wrong would involve the presentation of evidence. Read my signature.
	__________________ Jimmygun I have been referred to as a non-believer. I prefer the term 'Non-pretender'

25th October 2004, 03:34 PM	#21
Kitty Chan Muse Join Date: May 2004 Location: up north in Alberta Posts: 826	Originally posted by Seismosaurus As for proof... well the fundie regards such things as "fifty people died in the bus crash but one survived" as proof of god's existence. Quote: Originally posted by evildave You don't pay attention to the news, do you? Horrible tragedy occurs, 'n' people die. Survivor or family member of mangled survivor in hospital interviewed: "God was looking out for me/{insert name}." I was asking who specifically said the fifty people died in bus comment. The others you quote are not quite as impressive as that one. Or was it just made up for effect??
	__________________ Havent thought of one yet but, when I do . . . I will put it here How about, Labels are for soup cans

25th October 2004, 03:43 PM	#22
Seismosaurus Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Banbury Posts: 3,549	Quote: Originally posted by Kitty Chan Originally posted by Seismosaurus As for proof... well the fundie regards such things as "fifty people died in the bus crash but one survived" as proof of god's existence. I was asking who specifically said the fifty people died in bus comment. The others you quote are not quite as impressive as that one. Or was it just made up for effect?? It was a generic example. That's why i said things such as that. But it's not that over the top really. I mean, I remember people saying god was working a miracle because they were running late and missed being in the WTC on 9/11.
	__________________ Promise of diamonds in eyes of coal She carries beauty in her soul

25th October 2004, 03:45 PM	#23
Kitty Chan Muse Join Date: May 2004 Location: up north in Alberta Posts: 826	Quote: Originally posted by jimmygun I assume that everyone picks and chooses what part of the bible they will believe in and what part is of little or no consequence. This is exactly my point. For every person who reads the bible there is a different but equal opinion of what the bible says. From the most dogmatic fundimentalist to the atheist, all (to me) are equal in their interpretation. Any further discussion of who is right and who is wrong would involve the presentation of evidence. Read my signature. Well I still go with what I said earlier, that if those that pull out what they want would be a interesting line. Those that believe the whole book would be a different line up. As for your sig I guess Im opposite I looked to evolution to find what REALLY happened and found it was lacking any solid proof and was still theroies. So eventually I chose a theory that made the most sense to my heart because actually both require faith because neither has definative proof.
	__________________ Havent thought of one yet but, when I do . . . I will put it here How about, Labels are for soup cans

25th October 2004, 03:51 PM	#24
Kitty Chan Muse Join Date: May 2004 Location: up north in Alberta Posts: 826	Quote: Originally posted by Seismosaurus It was a generic example. That's why i said things such as that. But it's not that over the top really. I mean, I remember people saying god was working a miracle because they were running late and missed being in the WTC on 9/11. Now theres a good comment, I cant agree with them saying its a miricle because they were late, but truthfully I dont know for sure. But since it seems mean, I would have to say the miricles that day was the comfort and care strangers gave to one another. Those that were late I would have to borrow a line from Private Ryan and thats "make it count" that you lived. Maybe the other miricles were the rest of the planes didnt hit their bigger targets.
	__________________ Havent thought of one yet but, when I do . . . I will put it here How about, Labels are for soup cans

25th October 2004, 04:01 PM	#25
Cosmo Radioactive Rationalist Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 1,169	Quote: Originally posted by Kitty Chan Now theres a good comment, I cant agree with them saying its a miricle because they were late, but truthfully I dont know for sure. But since it seems mean, I would have to say the miricles that day was the comfort and care strangers gave to one another. Those that were late I would have to borrow a line from Private Ryan and thats "make it count" that you lived. Maybe the other miricles were the rest of the planes didnt hit their bigger targets. [dictionary.com] mirÂ·aÂ·cle Â_Â_n. An event that appears inexplicable by the laws of nature and so is held to be supernatural in origin or an act of God [/dictionary.com] How is it a miracle that they were late to work, or that the other planes didn't hit? In the case of the former, sheer blind luck and random chance seem a far more logical explanation - perhaps the train was late, or they had to stop for gas in the car, and so forth. In the case of the latter, it was more likely the efforts of the people on board the planes. A family friend of mine lost a brother on 9/11. He was on the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania, and minutes before he died, he called her on his cell phone and told her that he was getting together with some other passengers to storm the cockpit. It seems that they were successful. Scary? Yes. Miracle? No.

25th October 2004, 04:01 PM	#26
Piscivore Smelling fishy Join Date: May 2004 Location: Home is wherever I'm with you Posts: 26,484	Quote: Originally posted by Kitty Chan I would have to say the miricles that day was the comfort and care strangers gave to one another. Maybe the other miricles were the rest of the planes didnt hit their bigger targets. Kitty, I've told you before I consider you a shining example of the best a Christian could be, but I have to take issue with these statements. These were examples of human decency, compassion, and courage. Nothing "miraculous" about it at all. (Okay, it was New York, but still ) If that's the best "miracle" god can pull off these days, who needs him?
	__________________ Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Take his fish away and tell him he's lucky just to be alive, and he'll figure out how to catch another one for you to take tomorrow. "...untrustworthy obnoxious twerp." - CFLarsen

25th October 2004, 04:28 PM	#27
evildave Guest Posts: n/a	Quote: Originally posted by Kitty Chan Originally posted by Seismosaurus As for proof... well the fundie regards such things as "fifty people died in the bus crash but one survived" as proof of god's existence. I was asking who specifically said the fifty people died in bus comment. The others you quote are not quite as impressive as that one. Or was it just made up for effect?? Oh, sorry, bus related god quotes it is... In recent news, 45 injured children seems to be about as close as it gets to the figure. http://www.wistv.com/global/Story.asp?s=2405673 Quote: (Winnsboro) Oct. 8, 2004 - Some 45 students from were taken McCorey-Liston Elementary School in Fairfield County were taken to Midlands hospitals Thursday, most with minor injuries, after the South Carolina Highway Patrol says a 10-wheel service delivery truck ran a stop sign and collided with a school bus. ... They're lucky to be alive, and I just thank God there were no casualties with the children. It's just a blessing that the children are still alive." http://www.memphisflyer.com/content....035&onthefly=1 Quote: John Edward Coney of McComb, Mississippi -- whose mother, Maxie Lyons, was among the dead and whose father, Billy Joe Lyons was being cared for at The Med -- was doing his best to be philosophical. â€œI was brought up not to question Godâ€™s will, but at a time like this, you have to wonder why,â€ he said. http://cities.expressindia.com/fulls...?newsid=103963 Quote: "â€˜Anything could have happened â€” the bus could have gone on straight and mowed down vehicles in front, the bus could have plunged into the river. By Godâ€™s Grace, no one was injured. So many passengers were saved from a horrible fate,â€™â€™ says Barathe. 15 Dead on Casino Trip - (15 rhymes with 50) http://www.dhonline.com/articles/200...tion/nat01.txt Quote: "This thing that happened, nobody has an answer for. All we can do is direct them to God,'' said the Rev. Curtis Reed, who was serving as a family spokesman. Same Crash, Earlier Death Toll http://cbs2chicago.com/topstories/lo...285182004.html Quote: â€œFirst of all, I thank God that I am among the land of the living because I did not have to be here,â€ said Twanda Frazier, 58, who is the first passenger to be able to speak about the accident. A couple of sites just for bus plunges... but seem to be edited down from the original content, some of which will certainly have had the gratuitous 'praise god' quotes in them. http://users.lmi.net/tcs55/ http://users.rcn.com/tcs.interport/
evildave Guest Posts: n/a

25th October 2004, 04:38 PM	#28
Piscivore Smelling fishy Join Date: May 2004 Location: Home is wherever I'm with you Posts: 26,484	Quote: Originally posted by evildave "This thing that happened, nobody has an answer for. All we can do is direct them to God,'' said the Rev. Curtis Reed, who was serving as a family spokesman. Finally, a theist that seems ready to take his god to task for the magical mystery crapfest that is our world. If he's going to have a god, at least he's willing to place blame where it belongs.
	__________________ Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Take his fish away and tell him he's lucky just to be alive, and he'll figure out how to catch another one for you to take tomorrow. "...untrustworthy obnoxious twerp." - CFLarsen

26th October 2004, 06:58 PM	#29
Kitty Chan Muse Join Date: May 2004 Location: up north in Alberta Posts: 826	Quote: Originally posted by Kitty Chan I cant agree with them saying its a miricle because they were late, but truthfully I dont know for sure. Just to be sure I said I didnt agree to call it a miracle (I cant even spell the word right )
	__________________ Havent thought of one yet but, when I do . . . I will put it here How about, Labels are for soup cans

26th October 2004, 07:29 PM	#30
Kitty Chan Muse Join Date: May 2004 Location: up north in Alberta Posts: 826	Quote: Originally posted by Kitty Chan But since it seems mean, I would have to say the miricles that day was the comfort and care strangers gave to one another. Those that were late I would have to borrow a line from Private Ryan and thats "make it count" that you lived. Maybe the other miricles were the rest of the planes didnt hit their bigger targets. Ok I will clarify I didnt realise I was tossing the miracle word around I guess cause I cant spelt it I recked it. So I will say your right Cosmo on the defination, I stand corrected. I was trying to point out what was more important on that day and that was the sacrifice of people. And it would be more accurate to say that day it showed the depth possible that people can attain in showing comfort, care, love to one another. And for what its worth Cosmo we closed our company on 9-11 and sent everyone home immediately, not for protection but respect. We hung an American Flag in our window for months.
	__________________ Havent thought of one yet but, when I do . . . I will put it here How about, Labels are for soup cans

26th October 2004, 07:57 PM	#31
Kitty Chan Muse Join Date: May 2004 Location: up north in Alberta Posts: 826	Originally posted by Seismosaurus As for proof... well the fundie regards such things as "fifty people died in the bus crash but one survived" as proof of god's existence. Dave I was commenting on what is above and that for someone to say that 50 people died but 1 lived is "proof of Gods existance " is wrong. Thats why I asked who said it. As for bad things happening on buses and whatever, and people are praising God. Yes really stupid right? It bugged me too. Thank God and praise Him? Not stupid really. When one has trouble straight away they actually curse God for the situation, life in general, people who dont help, your boss, coworkers, spouse, friend, the guy in the street, your dog, government everyone but the man in the mirror for the situation. Its easy to praise God when the sun is shining and alls well. But its harder when its raining and you're out of gas. When one says thanks to God in all situations, then in the bad ones, it takes you outside your problems to see a bigger picture of whats going on. And then solutions come easier when you are not cursing and complaining on how bad you got it. Thats why praise God in all things, thats what the people are doing. Whether one agrees or not that is the reason for praising God in all things.
	__________________ Havent thought of one yet but, when I do . . . I will put it here How about, Labels are for soup cans

26th October 2004, 08:02 PM	#32
Cosmo Radioactive Rationalist Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 1,169	Quote: Originally posted by Kitty Chan When one has trouble straight away they actually curse God for the situation, life in general, people who dont help, your boss, coworkers, spouse, friend, the guy in the street, your dog, government everyone but the man in the mirror for the situation. Agreed. People tend to blame others instead of themselves. Quote: Originally posted by Kitty Chan Its easy to praise God when the sun is shining and alls well. But its harder when its raining and you're out of gas. When one says thanks to God in all situations, then in the bad ones, it takes you outside your problems to see a bigger picture of whats going on. When "the sun is shining and alls well" I'm not praising god. I enjoy the day for what it is and take a walk to enjoy the weather. I don't see any reason to invoke any deity in this case. Quote: Originally posted by Kitty Chan And then solutions come easier when you are not cursing and complaining on how bad you got it. Thats why praise God in all things, thats what the people are doing. Whether one agrees or not that is the reason for praising God in all things. Speak for yourself. Not everyone feels the need to praise God for everything good that happens, moreover, not everyone believes the guy exists in the first place.

26th October 2004, 08:18 PM	#33
Kitty Chan Muse Join Date: May 2004 Location: up north in Alberta Posts: 826	Cosmo Im just explaining what the people who do the praising are on about, thats why I said that even if you dont agree thats why THEY do what they do.
	__________________ Havent thought of one yet but, when I do . . . I will put it here How about, Labels are for soup cans

26th October 2004, 08:29 PM	#34
1inChrist Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,362	Re: A sincere question for any theist... Quote: Originally posted by jimmygun I posed this question to 1inC in his "I will answer any question about the bible" thread. He has so far declined to answer that one and many many others. I will repeat it here for any theist that may care to take a stab at it... "Put all the people professing a belief in the bible in a row, shoulder to shoulder. Lets say you are number 11,294. The first 11,293 give me different interpretations. You give me the 11,294th interpretation of the bible. Continuing down the line I get a different interpretation from everyone in the line. Question...Who is right? Question...Why you? Question...Why is your interpretation more valid than all the others and why is your interpretation more valid than that of an atheist?" BROTHER YOU MUST READ THE WORD AND INTERPRET IT YOUR OWN WAY. YOU MUST INVITE THE HOLY GHOST INTO YOUR HEART SO HE MAY HELP YOU UNDERSTAND GOD'S MESSAGE! YOU MUST MEDITATE AND THINK LONG AND HARD ABOUT HIS WORD. DO NOT FOLLOW A CHURCH. DO NOT ALLOW ANY MIDDLE MAN IN YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD! READ AND INTERPRET HIS WORD YOUR OWN WAY. ALWAYS REMEMBER BROTHER, GOD LOVES YOU!

26th October 2004, 08:33 PM	#35
Cosmo Radioactive Rationalist Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 1,169	With 1inC's new posting style of large, capitalized, colored letters, I think he's left the realm of moderately annoying, occasionally funny posting and graduated into the land of cataract-causing, pain-inducing, where's-the-user-ignore-button trolling.