At Last An International Atheist Plot You Can Believe In

[Dr Adequate]

ON THE NEED FOR AN ATHEIST PLOT

Let me make it clear: I've got nothing against sane Christians, I rather like them. But something's got to be done about American fundies before they Destroy Us All. So I've used my Powers Of Adequacy to come up with an International Atheist Plot.


BUT FIRST, THE SUPPORTING DATA

Now if we wish people to lose faith (what did you think I was going to do, burn 'em at the stake... hey, hold on...) then knowing why they actually do lose faith is a good first step. I looked at the files of "Deconversion Stories" maintained by Cliff Walker on his positive atheism site. It should be borne in mind that deconversion is usually multifactorial. But roughly speaking, the top reasons include at number four, the multiplicity of One True Religions, at three, the problem of evil, at number two, talking to nonbelievers and reading sceptical literature (especially The Demon Haunted World). But what is the all-time, number one faith-buster?

The Bible.

Yes, you heard me right. Reading the Bible is the cause of more deconversions than any other single factor. I therefore give you my godless atheist plot. Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you... the Atheist Bible Society.


PRINCIPLES OF THE ABS

(1) The ABS shall exist to promote and disseminate Scriptural knowlege. It will offer no criticism of or commentary on the Bible. It will not be affiliated to any other atheist organisation.
(2) The ABS will disseminate Scriptural knowlege BECAUSE actual knowlege of the Bible --- rather than knowlege of your pastor's twelve favorite exerpts from the Bible --- is the number one reason why people turn away from fundamentalism, Christianity, and theism.
(3) When asked for an explanation of their actions, members of or spokespeople for the ABS shall repeat point number two, loudly, clearly, and, above all, over and over again. Until everyone knows it.
(4) The motto of the ABS shall be

You CAN'T be a 'Bible believer' UNTIL you've read the Bible
You WON'T be a 'Bible believer' AFTER you've read the Bible


WHAT WOULD THE ABS ACTUALLY DO?

Well, here's some ideas.

(1) Challenge Christians everywhere at every opportunity to read the whole Bible. Tell them that it is hypocritical to call yourself a "Bible-believing Christian" when you have no idea of what the Bible actually says. Hire billboards to say so. Challenge them to spend their next vacation reading the entire Bible through from beginning to end. Point out, if they are slow readers, that the Bible is available in the form of a "talking book". AND TELL THEM that the reason for this challenge is that reading the Bible is the surest way you know to destroy their faith in God. Ask them if they are too frightened of losing their faith to read the Bible and find out what their faith really is. Make clucking noises.

(2) Distribute texts. What you need are little cards with scriptures on. You know which scriptures. For example, the bit about God not being able to withstand iron chariots; or the bit about stoning unruly children. Each quotation should of course be given with chapter and verse. And underneath the quotation, in smaller letters, perhaps the legend: "If this scripture puzzles you, why not ask your pastor for an explanation?". Or: "If you don't understand this scripture, try praying for an explanation". Or: (and this I'm rather proud of) "If you reject this scripture, please dispose of it tidily --- don't litter".

Distribute texts on the street, or leave them in public places: laundrettes, buses ... churches? It would be nice if you could start doing this on a massive scale during a slow news week, but I imagine that organising atheists is rather like herding cats.

(3) Bumper stickers. NO NOT FOR YOU YOU IDIOT! Who needs that many rear-end shunts? For your friendly local fundamentalist. Stick a particularly obscene, wicked or flat-earthish quotation on his bumper, with, again in small print the caveat: "If you reject this scripture, and wish to remove it from your car..." etc.

He can rip the text off his car and throw it away, or he can drive around with it on, so that everyone can read it...

As a matter of fact, there are quite a few Dominical texts concerning money and wealth which I think it would be fun to see on the back of a fundamentalist's Beemer. Perhaps it's just me.

(4) Organise public Bible readings. Especially from the books of Joshua and Judges. Or you could have two speakers, alternatively producing contradictary texts. For best results, do this outside school gates. See if you can get yourself arrested for reading the Bible to children --- I don't know if this is possible, but maybe with the help of a really good lawyer..? Offer to set up Bible study groups, to discuss "the bits of the Bible your pastor won't tell you about". March with placards displaying Biblical texts.

(5) I understand that in some parts of America, it is possible for enough citizens to force a referendum on more or less any legislative matter. So force a referendum on whether disobedient children should be stoned to death by the town elders, or whether a man should be obliged by law to impregnate his brother's widow. If you can't get enough names to force the issue, that's also a victory --- the important thing is to try and to fail.

(6) Demand that creationism and the flat earth theory should be taught in schools alongside real science, "so that people can see the difference". Point out that every creationist and flat-earth claim can be debunked in five minutes by a bright twelve-year-old with Web access. Gloat publicly over the detrimental effect this would have on a child's faith. Comment delightedly that the fundamentalists couldn't have come up with a better plan to destroy Christianity in America if they tried with both hands for a week. Add that you would like to see every schoolchild in America made to read the Bible through from start to finish "to end this Christian nonsense once and for all".

(7) Publicly offer financial support to creationist and flat-earth organisations. Publicly explain why. If they refuse the money, announce that you'll channel it to them through front organisations and private donations. Do so.

(8) Award an annual prize to the Biblical literalist person or organisation "who makes Christianity look silliest". Have the prize come with a small cash award "to help you continue your work".

(9) Collect and publicise cases of deconversion resulting from Bible study.


WHAT WILL THIS ACHIEVE?

(1) Actual deconversions.

(2) Innoculation against conversion by fundamentalists.

(3) Cognitive dissonance amongst fundamentalists. Well, MORE cognitive dissonance, then.

(4) It will bring out of the woodwork all the Christian nonliteralists who will defend the Bible on the basis that it isn't really true.

(5) It will be screamingly funny.


WHAT CAN FUNDAMENTALISTS DO ABOUT IT?

(1) They can denounce reading the Bible, the distribution of Scripture, Biblical literalism and creationism as a godless atheist plot... no... hang on... that wouldn't work...

(2) Er...


AM YOU SERIOUS?

Perfectly. But I am also grinning like a shark.

[geni]

Problems:
The EAC exists already and has a cool website

http://www.evilatheistconspiracy.org/

Which version of the bible?

Why are you ignoring islam, hinduism, judaism, sikhism zoroastrianism and all there others? Does you athism only extend to chritianity?

[Dr Adequate]

Quote:

Originally posted by geni
Problems:
The EAC exists already and has a cool website

That's no problem. The more the merrier.

Quote:

Which version of the bible?

You'd want an accurate modern translation, I guess. Except that some fundies won't even look at modern versions, so a bit of KJV may be necessary.

Quote:

Why are you ignoring islam, hinduism, judaism, sikhism zoroastrianism and all there others? Does you athism only extend to chritianity?

No, I don't believe in any gods. Or goddesses. But Zoroastrians don't talk rubbish about the Second Law Of Thermodynamics. I've had enough, OK? It's one thing to have faith about things which can't be tested, and quite another thing to have "faith" about things which can be tested and are complete horsefeathers. And a third thing altogether to feed this blah to children as though it were part of Christianity.

[phildonnia]

I've noticed (never mind how) that the "Gideon" bibles left in hotel rooms have a convenient "What the Bible says about..." page in the back, with quotes and references to the rest of Book.

It does seem to be lacking a few things; e.g.: "What the Bible says about slavery", "What the Bible says about genocide", "What the Bible says about incestuous threesomes", etc..

I can't imagine that any Bible-believing person would object to more supplementary material being inserted, provided, of course that it were scrupulously factual.

[Dr Adequate]

The great thing about this tactic, thinking about it, is that it only works on people who think you ought to take the Bible literally. There is an alternative, of course, which is that the non-woo element of the Church could convert the woos to non-wooery. I'm equally happy with that. But it doesn't seem to happen very often.

But I like this guy.

Quote:

We should be diligent in our efforts to avoid bearing false witness, whether the victim is our next-door neighbor or Ludwig Boltzmann.

That's telling 'em. But are they listening?

[geni]

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr Adequate

No, I don't believe in any gods. Or goddesses. But Zoroastrians don't talk rubbish about the Second Law Of Thermodynamics. I've had enough, OK? It's one thing to have faith about things which can't be tested, and quite another thing to have "faith" about things which can be tested and are complete horsefeathers. And a third thing altogether to feed this blah to children as though it were part of Christianity.

So how com the only YECs I've run accross lately were muslim?

[Dr Adequate]

Quote:

Originally posted by geni
So how com the only YECs I've run accross lately were muslim?

OK, we'll need an AQS as well.

And when they issue the fatwa, I'll be sure to mention that you put me up to it.

[geni]

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr Adequate
OK, we'll need an AQS as well.

And when they issue the fatwa, I'll be sure to mention that you put me up to it.

Relax. They didn't issue one on me.

[Chanileslie]

Quote:

Originally posted by geni
Problems:
The EAC exists already and has a cool website

http://www.evilatheistconspiracy.org/

Which version of the bible?

Why are you ignoring islam, hinduism, judaism, sikhism zoroastrianism and all there others? Does you athism only extend to chritianity?

Please allow me to clarify one point: The EAC does not exist. I should know since I am the head of the EAC. And no, we don't have black helicopters and no, we did not plant dinosaur bones to confuse the xians nor did we plant the evidence to support evolution because we just plain don't exist. Now, excuse me, I have some victims, uh, guests in the labs, uh, special greeting area down in the dungeons, uh, basement, uh, lower floor.

[Dr Adequate]

Quote:

Originally posted by geni
Relax. They didn't issue one on me.

Then they were No True Muslims.

Actually, I think you have to be an ayatollah or something to issue fatwahs, they don't let just anyone do it. That would be silly.

[AWPrime]

Donate to the ABS!

[DarkMagician]

Quote:

Originally posted by AWPrime
Donate to the ABS!

*accidentally donates to the Anti-lock Brake System fan club*

[RamblingOnwards]

Quote:

Originally posted by Chanileslie
Please allow me to clarify one point: The EAC does not exist.

Is 'I win' still not it's current passphrase?

[c4ts]

Fundamentalists are usually people with political motives who use religion to disguise their acts as something much better than they are, so they can justify what they do as right in their own minds and feel no pain of guilt, or they are people who are under the control of these types. Getting rid of their religion won't solve most of the problems fundamentalism creates. You must attack the source politically.

[Dr Adequate]

Quote:

Originally posted by Operaider on this thread
If you think that we don't believe in God because we simple don't want one, in my case you are wrong. I actually was Christian. I believed whole heartily in Jesus. Then one day someone pointed out that I haven't actually read the bible. I had spent years devoting my life to a book of commandments I'd never gotten around to reading. Once I read it I realized what a load of nonsense it was. There were multiple contradictions. Commandments damning ridiculously innocent acts with extremely harsh punishments.

[MrTreacle]

This thread is sheer genius!!

Dr. Adequate, sir! I could kiss you!

[neutrino_cannon]

I have, of late been impressed with the edgy works of Dr. Adaquate. I'm curious however, as to what the honorable Sir/Lady Adaquate's ideas moderate Christians are.

[Loon]

Quote:

Originally posted by geni
Which version of the bible?

I don't think it matters. Do it with different versions. Have a full range.

I love this idea. I think it might be more powerful if it more subtle, at least at first. No need to support the wacko organizations. Just get the bible read. By lots of people. Tack on the other stuff later.

It is sheer beauty.

[espritch]

Quote:

You'd want an accurate modern translation, I guess. Except that some fundies won't even look at modern versions, so a bit of KJV may be necessary.

No. You should definitely use the King James version. All those "thee"s and "thine"s and "verily"s serve the crucial purpose of making it sound sufficiently mysterious and holy. Consider the following paragraph taken pretty much at random from a recent National Geographic:

Quote:

It seemed obvious. Because wolves prey on elk, and elk feed on plants, the wolve's reintroduction to Yellowstone National Park in 1995 should have led to a decline in elk number. That would then explain why some plants elk eat are suddenly thriving.

Fairly innocuous stuff, right? Hardly cult material. But let's give it the old KJV treatment:

Quote:

Have thou not eyes to see? Verily, the wolf doth prey upon the elk even as the elk preyeth upon the flowers of the field. Surely it must come to pass, when the wolf again doth hunt in the lands of the yellow stone, that the elk shall be sore afflicted. In that day, knowest thou not that that the flowers shall rejoice and spring forth in great abundance?

There now. Doesn't that sound much more Biblical?

[Art Vandelay]

Isn't it weird how people use phrases like "in the Biblical sense" when they mean "in the King James sense"? It's like they think it was actually written in King James English.

[Vim Razz]

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr Adequate
Actually, I think you have to be an ayatollah or something to issue fatwahs, they don't let just anyone do it. That would be silly.

Right, you need to make sure that they're only issued for the important things. Like pokemon.

Otherwise the situation just gets out of hand.

[c4ts]

From that site:

Quote:

In Turkey the series caused a public scandal last year after two children jumped off their balconies apparently to imitate Pokemon characters with special powers. Both children survived.

At least they didn't give each other seizures.

[H3LL]

Isn't all this assuming that fundies can read words of more than one or two syllables?

Ed-u-kay-shun is supposed to come from someone shouting useful advice like:

"Bad <strike>dog</strike> person. Bad, bad <strike>dog</strike> person. You shall burrrrrrn for ever."

[ilk]

Thought this was well deserving of a bump. I intend to open the Wellington Branch of the Atheist Bible Society as soon as I can wrangle the details and get off my bottom.

[clarsct]

Dr. A

Y'know I like it. I like it alot. With your permission, sir, I think I may speak to a few friends about getting something like this off the ground.

Seriously. I've had thoughts in this direction before, but not in this organized a fashion. Brilliant!

[FireGarden]

Geni

Quote:

So how com the only YECs I've run accross lately were muslim?

When I talked creationism with Muslims, they had a non-YE version. And they all pointed me towards Harun Yahya. But once I started talking about Mr. Yahya, the way he misses evidence, the way he misquotes people... Well, nobody defended him.

In fact, they accepted that evolution doesn't require atheism. Which is a bonus. And Muslims themselves counter with Quran verses that 'clearly state' (if you read them right) that evolution is indeed the method of creation.

Where you on some forum or other?





Great idea, BTW, Dr A!! Has it got off the ground yet?
I would suggest a bible reading thread at RaptureReady, but I think the site is down right now. Was that you?

[LizardPeople]

Quote:

Originally posted by geni

The EAC exists already and has a cool website

http://www.evilatheistconspiracy.org/

I know they don't actually exist, but I'd love to have that logo on a t-shirt.

[Dr Adequate]

Quote:

Originally posted by clarsct
Dr. A

Y'know I like it. I like it alot. With your permission, sir...

My permission? Of course!

I was rather hoping some enterprising group of people would take the idea up and actually do it.

And ilk too! The conspiracy now stretches across three continents...

Does either of you know a website designer? Nothing could be more useful than a place to share good material.

[Lord Emsworth]

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr Adequate
WHAT WILL THIS ACHIEVE?

(1) Actual deconversions.

(2) Innoculation against conversion by fundamentalists.

(3) Cognitive dissonance amongst fundamentalists. Well, MORE cognitive dissonance, then.

(4) It will bring out of the woodwork all the Christian nonliteralists who will defend the Bible on the basis that it isn't really true.

(5) It will be screamingly funny.[/b]

(6) A lot of atheists will now make it into FSTDT.

[jjramsey]

Quote:

Originally posted by Lord Emsworth
(6) A lot of atheists will now make it into FSTDT.

Hmm, depending on how the Atheist Plot goes, that could be taken a couple different ways.

I'll let you work out what they are.

[Lord Emsworth]

Quote:

Originally posted by jjramsey
Hmm, depending on how the Atheist Plot goes, that could be taken a couple different ways.

I'll let you work out what they are.

Ahh, I see now. I had only one meaning in mind though. I.e. we will get a lot (more) atheist saying darned things should the plot work.

[RandFan]

Like it or not you got my vote. It's not a new idea but it is a great one.

[Aussie Thinker]

I know Dr A is mostly having fun but this really does ring true.

I have read more Bible than anyone I know and I am virulently atheistic.. NOW !

In fact it usually follows the more people know about the religion they are in the more likely they are to abandon it.. the noted exceptions being those who make a buck/living out of it !

[RandFan]

Quote:

Originally posted by Aussie Thinker
I know Dr A is mostly having fun but this really does ring true.

I have read more Bible than anyone I know and I am virulently atheistic.. NOW !

In fact it usually follows the more people know about the religion they are in the more likely they are to abandon it.. the noted exceptions being those who make a buck/living out of it !

There are few so naive as theists and the very worst are conservative theists (IMO). Many are the equivalent of a caricature. Of course it is not universal. I was one of those at one time. I'd like to think I was a bit more sophisticated than most but I'm not so sure. Looking back at some of the discussions I had with friends who didn't buy the dogma I'm embarrassed at some of the arguments I used to make.

[Jyera]

1. Any one knows when and where is the next Bible reading session ?

2. Or is there already a related WebBlog .

3. Is there any place to download the full unabridge copy of the Bible?

[JR "BOB" Dobbs]

Super funny! I expect to hear "of course I've read the whole thing!" arguments, but if there is a chink of rational thought in their dogmatic armor, this should work.

Now that I think of it, this is the reason I shunned Catholicism. I began to get the gist of it during catechism after school got out and after a week or so I called bunk (but still went for the cookies and milk).

[LW]

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr Adequate
(3) Bumper stickers. NO NOT FOR YOU YOU IDIOT! Who needs that many rear-end shunts? For your friendly local fundamentalist. Stick a particularly obscene, wicked or flat-earthish quotation on his bumper, with, again in small print the caveat: "If you reject this scripture, and wish to remove it from your car..." etc.

No for this. You shouldn't go around messing with another's property.

[ilk]

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr Adequate
My permission? Of course!

I was rather hoping some enterprising group of people would take the idea up and actually do it.

And ilk too! The conspiracy now stretches across three continents...

Does either of you know a website designer? Nothing could be more useful than a place to share good material.

I personally am looking forward to buying a copy of the Bible. Ashamed to say, although I have read a significant portion of the bible (much online) I don't own a copy myself, although I do have Isaac Asimov's Old and New Testament.

Hopefully I can get myself organised for the next time Destiny Church marches. They are New Zealand's only significantly popular money grubbing obviously fraudulent fundy sects. They like to march all in black and raise their fists in the air while Pastor Brian Tamaki rattles off a few made up scriptures about gay marriage before riding to his mansion on Harley Davidson.

edited for grammar.

[Dr Adequate]

Quote:

Originally posted by LW
No for this. You shouldn't go around messing with another's property.

The stickers should peel off easily if anyone wants to detatch them. That was kind of the point. If they want, they can act all ashamed of the text, rip it off, and throw it away. That's what they're meant to do.

[Rikkety]

Good thinking.

If only fundamentalists were real people, we might've been able to show them the way to enlightenment.
Still, it'd be fun to try tho.