Randi DID slander Nina

[jambo372]

To all those who said I was lying when I said Randi slandered Nina Kulagina, I recommend this link :

http://jref.sawco.com/

[jambo372]

Check the 'K' section.

[Rob Lister]

Quote:

Originally posted by jambo372
Check the 'K' section.

You think you can be a tad more specific?

If not, count me out. If so, I'll read what you actually refer to.

[jambo372]

Reference 350 in the K section of the provided link - Kulagina, Nina 1925 - 1990.

[TLN]

I believe he's referring to this:

Quote:

This Russian psychic made a handsome career of reading while blindfolded, using the standard methods. She was also famous for making a compass needle move, and moving small objects like match-boxes, using a very fine nylon thread.

In 1978, the USSR Academy of Sciences was so convinced of her powers that they declared her genuine, in spite of the simple and obvious solutions for her conjuring tricks.

When the newspaper Pravda declared her to be a trickster, she sued the editors and won, largely on the basis of testimony given by Soviet parapsychologists.

In films made in the 1950s by the parapsychologists, Kulagina can be seen standing with her back to a wall while experimenters place very large letters, numbers and shapes on the wall. She holds her right hand up to her eyes for a while, then announces what is on the cards. See dermo-optical perception for an explanation of the trick.

So? Here's something you may not be aware of:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=slander

slan·der ( P ) Pronunciation Key (slndr)
n.
Law. Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation.
A false and malicious statement or report about someone.


False statements. Where's the false statement here?

[jambo372]

The sentence concerning the nylon thread is a false statement .

[Rob Lister]

Quote:

Originally posted by TLN
I believe he's referring to this:



So? Here's something you may not be aware of:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=slander

slan·der ( P ) Pronunciation Key (slndr)
n.
Law. Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation.
A false and malicious statement or report about someone.


False statements. Where's the false statement here?

None that I can see.

[TLN]

Quote:

Originally posted by jambo372
The sentence concerning the nylon thread is a false statement .

Any evidence of that claim?

[Rob Lister]

Quote:

Originally posted by TLN
Any evidence of that claim?

It could have been silk I suppose. I don't think that quite rises to the level of slander unless she was somehow anti-nylon.

[jambo372]

She was tested repeatedly by scientists from the Soviet Union and abroad, on no occasion was any thread or other form of trickery detected, not once in ten years of exhaustive testing.
Randi, who doesn't even know the woman however has made this claim with no evidence what so ever. He sent me an email saying that the thread could be CLEARLY seen passing under the container in the 16mm of film he watched. Having seen the film and others of Kulagina, I know he is a liar.

[Rob Lister]

Quote:

Originally posted by jambo372
She was tested repeatedly by scientists from the Soviet Union and abroad, on no occasion was any thread or other form of trickery detected, not once in ten years of exhaustive testing.
Randi, who doesn't even know the woman however has made this claim with no evidence what so ever. He sent me an email saying that the thread could be CLEARLY seen passing under the container in the 16mm of film he watched. Having seen the film and others of Kulagina, I know he is a liar.

Either he's a liar or you are. I'm putting my money that you are. Did I just slander you?

Edit to add: To bad she's dead and can't apply for the million, eh?

[TLN]

Quote:

Originally posted by jambo372
She was tested repeatedly by scientists from the Soviet Union and abroad, on no occasion was any thread or other form of trickery detected, not once in ten years of exhaustive testing.
Randi, who doesn't even know the woman however has made this claim with no evidence what so ever. He sent me an email saying that the thread could be CLEARLY seen passing under the container in the 16mm of film he watched. Having seen the film and others of Kulagina, I know he is a liar.

So your answer is no, you don't have any evidence. Cool... next!

[Ashles]

I'm no lawyer but doesn't slander only apply to the living?

[apoger]

Hrm... seems jambo's accusation is hanging by a thread.

[Zombified]

Are we back to this? Jambo was ranting about Kulagina the day he registered. Did somebody hit the reset button on him or something?

[rppa]

Quote:

Originally posted by jambo372
She was tested repeatedly by scientists from the Soviet Union and abroad, on no occasion was any thread or other form of trickery detected, not once in ten years of exhaustive testing.

The scientists didn't detect the trickery. So? There are plenty of cases in this country as well where scientists thought they had controlled for trickery, but a magician could easily spot the opportunities to peek around the blindfold, bend the spoon when nobody was looking, do some sleight of hand, etc.

Scientists are not trained in trickery. They've been fooled many times. Randi has fooled them with trickery. Does that make him a real psychic, because he could do a trick that the scientists didn't detect?

A good closeup magician (which is what we're talking about here) can create an illusion literally in front of your eyes that will even stump other magicians. I've seen this myself, when hanging about the magic store.

Quote:

Randi, who doesn't even know the woman however has made this claim with no evidence what so ever. He sent me an email saying that the thread could be CLEARLY seen

The two highlighted phrases seem to be in direct contradiction.

Quote:

passing under the container in the 16mm of film he watched. Having seen the film and others of Kulagina, I know he is a liar.

What you know is that you too are unable to spot the trick. How are you at figuring out how stage magicians do their illusions? Do you think they all have supernatural powers?

Magicians are good at fooling people. Very, very good. The skills have been honed literally for centuries.

[DangerousBeliefs]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ashles
I'm no lawyer but doesn't slander only apply to the living?

Well, that's probably the most important thing.

There are a bunch more... no doubt Russian proof of slander is a lot less strict than US proof. If Nina were considered a public figure (which I think we can safely say she was), than Randi could call her a lyin' cheatin' whore and the judge would laugh her lawyers out of court.

Oh and jambo372... Nina was a lyin' cheatin' whore.

Haven't we already had this discussion?

[steenkh]

The film I have seen with Nina Kulagina only showed objects moving towards her. Exactly what I would expect if a thread was involved. With a psychic ability I would have expected things to be able to move in other directions, too.

[CFLarsen]

Quote:

Originally posted by steenkh
The film I have seen with Nina Kulagina only showed objects moving towards her. Exactly what I would expect if a thread was involved. With a psychic ability I would have expected things to be able to move in other directions, too.

And she would be told in what direction the object should move.

Did Kulagina ever move anything away from her?

[Sanamas]

Since this is all in print (well, the digital equivalent thereof), wouldn't this be libel?

[jambo372]

She moved objects towards herself and away from herself.

She also moved them sideways, rotated them and levitated them.

[CFLarsen]

Quote:

Originally posted by jambo372
She moved objects towards herself and away from herself.

She also moved them sideways, rotated them and levitated them.

When asked to move an object in a specific direction?

Can I see this?

[jambo372]

Yes, when asked to do so.

If you can find a copy of the film I'm talking about then you can see it.

What difference would direction make anyway ? I can move objects with thread forwards, backwards and sideways.

[Operaider]

Quote:

Originally posted by jambo372
Yes, when asked to do so.

If you can find a copy of the film I'm talking about then you can see it.

What difference would direction make anyway ? I can move objects with thread forwards, backwards and sideways.

But not on demand, and not without getting caught

[CFLarsen]

Quote:

Originally posted by jambo372
Yes, when asked to do so.

If you can find a copy of the film I'm talking about then you can see it.

Where did you see it?

Quote:

Originally posted by jambo372
What difference would direction make anyway ? I can move objects with thread forwards, backwards and sideways.

How can you move it away from you, undetected?

[jambo372]

I saw the film on a documentary about psychics.

It's easy, just use a very thin thread.

[CFLarsen]

Quote:

Originally posted by jambo372
I saw the film on a documentary about psychics.

What documentary?

Quote:

Originally posted by jambo372
It's easy, just use a very thin thread.

How?

[scratchy]

So Jambo, you say you could easily move objects on demand, in any direction, undetected, by using very thin threads? And this leads you to the conclusion that Nina didnt do just that. Instead she is for real, and Randi is therefore a liar....

What am i missing here....?

[Soapy Sam]

How?- CFLarsen



Use a pulley? Thread can transmit stress only when in tension.

Hard to see how a pulley could be concealed.

The obvious way to move a small object away from onesself is to blow it or roll it.


The history of Soviet science is filled with contradiction. One thinks of frauds like Lysenko, wielding tremendous power and people like Sakharov finding themselves under arrest. Very hard to know who could or could not be taken seriously. I am personally unwilling to cast away everything I know of science, (little as it may be) on the evidence of a purported Soviet video which I have not seen.

[Goshawk]

I may be totally off the wall on this, but I have a vague shadow of a smidgen of a memory that I saw/heard a discussion of this once, and it involved a fine silk thread and a coarse, poorly sanded wooden desk top or table top. The "psychic" had discovered that careful manipulation of the thread could get it caught on teeny splinters and rough edges on the table top, and if you did it just right, and with a good deal of "magicianly" misdirection, you could pull the object in different directions by hooking the thread on the correct teeny splinter and using leverage.

But it had to be a really light object that would slide easily.

And you had to practice with the table top so you'd know where the proper rough edges were.

Sorry, I have NO clue where my brain dredged that all up from.

[CFLarsen]

Quote:

Originally posted by Soapy Sam
I am personally unwilling to cast away everything I know of science, (little as it may be) on the evidence of a purported Soviet video which I have not seen.

Precisely.

[jambo372]

Scratchy
Quote :

Quote:

"What am i missing here.... ?"

I said I can do it with a thread but I would certainly be caught out if I subjected myself to ten years repeated testing with no less than 40 experts in the field.

Nina was tested in this way and the investigators concluded that there were no threads or other trickery methods employed.

CF Larsen
Quote :

Quote:

"What documentary?"

It was called psychic secrets. It was presented by Richard Wiseman and other skeptics debunking techniques used by fraudulent psychics and had a trainee magician repeat them eg The Vinogradova Technique.

They showed a film of Nina moving objects around in an experiment but they couldn't debunk / give an explanation for what she was doing.

Soapy Sam
Quote :

Quote:

"The obvious way to move an object away from onesself is to blow it or roll it."

This obviously wouldn't have explained Nina's demonstrations :-

A ) Many of the objects she moved were far too heavy to be moved via blowing.
B ) Only cylindrical and round objects will roll, most of Nina's objects didn't meet this criteria.

This is a film of Nina K ( not the one I reffered to earlier ) :

http://www.sortlifeout.co.uk/Telekinesis-Video.htm

[thatguywhojuggles]

There are thousands of written records of people who have supernatural powers. Just check out the Bible. And all those people are now dead too.

Bring us someone ALIVE with the same powers and then we can talk.

Thanks.

[CFLarsen]

Quote:

Originally posted by jambo372
It was called psychic secrets. It was presented by Richard Wiseman and other skeptics debunking techniques used by fraudulent psychics and had a trainee magician repeat them eg The Vinogradova Technique.

Sorry, but I have seen that. It does not show Kulagina move objects away from her.

Quote:

Originally posted by jambo372
This is a film of Nina K ( not the one I reffered to earlier ) :

http://www.sortlifeout.co.uk/Telekinesis-Video.htm

Again, this does not show Kulagina move objects away from her.

Don't play games with me. I am not impressed with you, I am not intimidated by you, I am not fooled by you.

Show me a video of Kulagina moving objects away from her, or shut the f*ck up.

[walthrup48]

Quote:

Originally posted by jambo372
I said I can do it with a thread but I would certainly be caught out if I subjected myself to ten years repeated testing with no less than 40 experts in the field.

You wouldn't if the quality of the testing never rose above that shown in the video you link to!

Quote:

It was called psychic secrets. It was presented by Richard Wiseman and other skeptics debunking techniques used by fraudulent psychics and had a trainee magician repeat them

I don't think Alistair 'Monkey Boy' Cook would appreciate your description of him.

Quote:

They showed a film of Nina moving objects around in an experiment but they couldn't debunk / give an explanation for what she was doing.

The clip they showed was part of the same film used in the video you link to - Nina K making several small objects move towards her. The clips of her and a French psychic displaying similar abilities were immediately followed by Alistair Cook replicating the trick before members of the public.

Edit: I'll be happy to supply the clip to someone who can host the sizable file, if I can find a way to transmit it.

[jambo372]

Jim The Brit
For the last time you would get caught.
A 2 year old could debunk the tricks you're accusing Nina of instantly but she goes on to fool 40 professional scientists with something like this.

Why would I care whether or not he appreciates my description of him ?

More than one clip was shown in the documentary.
It did not reveal Nina to be a fraud, it debunked another psychic named Jean Pierre Girard moving objects with a fine thread which the camera zoomed in on. He never replicated either Nina or Jean Pierre Girard's work - he went into a pub and done some cheap copy of the Vinogradova feat on a perspex sheet with a cigar tube and other stuff.

CF Larsen
I know what I saw in the film, I'm not blind.
In the film I submitted nina moves the lighter to sideways towards the end, not directly towards herself.

[Ed]

Quote:

Originally posted by CFLarsen
Sorry, but I have seen that. It does not show Kulagina move objects away from her.



Again, this does not show Kulagina move objects away from her.

Don't play games with me. I am not impressed with you, I am not intimidated by you, I am not fooled by you.

Show me a video of Kulagina moving objects away from her, or shut the f*ck up.

I am really too tired of this crap to go back and find the OP that has the link that Claus refers to.

Now mental giants, look carefully at the point where idiot #2 places the "impenetarable clear globe" over the test objects. Watch carefully as he puts it down. Note how the matchbox jumps when it presses on the string. Jesus christ oozing ectoplasm ... this is it? This is the evidence? This is what you got?

BTW she looks pretty damn hot to me. I like that coquetteish turned away deal at the midpoint of the film. Think they were angling for a gig on Carson? She can pull my strings anytime. I think Claus likes her too, probably also Randy. Did she bill herself as the Temptress of Telekenisis?

So, to review......

We had Bethke blinding us
We have had a series of non sequitors from Luci purporting to be predictions
We had that one in christ loon positively begging for an ass whupping with that stupid "prediction" of his.
We have Ian insisting we are not here or something
Now this offal..........

Really charming. I mean really. To whoever the nut was who originally posted: Did you actually look at that clip? Did you? Are you ***** blind? Were you so smitten with the chick's beauty that you missed the trick? What in the world is wrong with you? Do you drink? Are you now or have you been insitutionalized? Are you on any major mood manipulating drugs? What is your reason for presenting this crap?

[The Mighty Thor]

I hope you all checked out the rest of the site where the Nina video is hosted. Don't forget to donate to this worthy cause. Greg needs your money to get his life sorted out.

And buy up those Hopi ear candles. You never know when you might want to boil your eardrum.

http://www.sortlifeout.co.uk/donate.htm

[The Mighty Thor]

Also note the Note:

Quote:

[Note: This list of Einstein quotes was being forwarded around the Internet in e-mail, so I decided to put it on my web page. I'm afraid I can't vouch for its authenticity, tell you where it came from, who compiled the list, who Kevin Harris is, or anything like that. Still, the quotes are interesting and enlightening. ]

my bold

http://www.sortlifeout.co.uk/quotes-Einstein.htm

Remind you of anyone here?

[Azrael 5]

Quote:

Scientists are not trained in trickery. They've been fooled many times. Randi has fooled them with trickery. Does that make him a real psychic, because he could do a trick that the scientists didn't detect?

Such as this http://www.banachek.com/Articles/Project%20Alpha.htm