Is it so much fun to be a prostitute ?

El Greco · 14th January 2005, 10:03 AM

A Greek network has lately focused on expensive call girls who advertise themselves with web sites etc. One of them who was arrested a few weeks ago used to charge 30,000 euros for a weekend.

Anyway, in between all this a new story came up today: A father went to visit his daughter who was a student in another city, and thought he could also have some fun. So he calls a girl from a newspaper ad and arranges an appointment in a hotel room. But -as you have probably already figured out- when he opens the door he meets his daughter. The story leaked because the father fainted and they had to call an ambulance.

Now the fun part is that the girl comes from a wealthy family and in fact used to receive a generous amount of money from her family each month. When asked by the reporter she said that she didn't really need the money but it was nice to be able to make it, plus she had the opportunity to "expand her circle of acquaintances".

Well, if I was a girl I already know what I would do for a living

aerocontrols · 14th January 2005, 10:08 AM

Do you have a source? Look like an urban legend...

El Greco · 14th January 2005, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by aerocontrols
Do you have a source? Look like an urban legend...

This is really hot news, it was aired half an hour ago. And that channel doesn't make up stories, AFAIK.

But it doesn't change much, anyway. There are expensive call girls and they certainly don't exactly need the money. So it has to be somewhat fun, doesn't it ?

Seismosaurus · 14th January 2005, 11:15 AM

There's literally nothing you can name that somebody somewhere doesn't enjoy doing, no matter how horrible it may seem to most. Humans are a very diverse people, after all.

So yes, I'd say there probably are women who enjoy prostitution. And why not? It's not like they're hurting anybody.

c0rbin · 14th January 2005, 11:24 AM

Not that I know, but one could, with little empiricism, get me to agree that high-priced call girls have more fun than junky crack-whores.

hgc · 14th January 2005, 11:29 AM

It's not like this father can really complain (not that I know he is). Afterall, the prostitute he intended to get is someone else's daughter.

jay gw · 14th January 2005, 11:49 AM

If you charge alot, you only get the top class types, poor people can't afford you. So you're weeding out the problem people.

The lower class street walker types are the ones that really suffer. Almost ALL of them have very serious drug problems, and alot have mental illness and can't work in other jobs.

One of the stupidest things is making prostitution illegal. If prostitution is illegal, it means that when they are robbed or beaten etc. they can't go to the police and complain. In places where it's legal the police will help. And, diseases don't spread where it's legal, because they can force you to wear condoms. Illegal prostitutes can't force anyone to do anything. And, it's not dangerous to society. Every time the police arrest someone, it just costs money. For what? They haven't actually harmed anything. Dumb.

pgwenthold · 14th January 2005, 12:20 PM

This is similar to the current story about the junior high speaker who is in trouble for telling 8th graders that strippers can make a lot of money (depending on their bust size). Of course, a lot of parents are howling about it, but his defense is, "It's true."

Of course, it is true, but apparently it's not appropriate to tell 8th graders that it is a viable career option. You can tell them that it is ok to scrub toilets for minimum wage if they want to, but suggesting that exotic dancing might be a way to make a lot of money? No way.

I don't have the full link, but I read it on www.usatoday.com

The idea · 14th January 2005, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jay gw
One of the stupidest things is making prostitution illegal.

Are you using the word "stupidest" to avoid using some concept such as "unjust", "unethical", or "immoral"?

What about those who, aware of the costs and consequences of laws against prostitution, still approve of such laws? You wouldn't be able to accuse them of ignorance. Perhaps you could say they are stupid on the grounds that they fail to recognize that the costs are too high or that the consequences are too negative. However, that would suggest that, if there were significantly lower costs or less severe consequences, then people could approve of laws against prostitution without deserving the label "stupid." In this scenario, they are comparing the costs and consequences to something.

Maybe there are those who know all about the actual costs and consequences and think they are worth it. Maybe they aren't stupidly failing to make an accurate comparison. Maybe they are measuring things against a standard that differs from your standard.

SRW · 14th January 2005, 01:02 PM

Just finished reading Callgirl
it is written by Jeannette Angell, a college professor who is a callgirl on the side. Not a great read but very intresting look in to the life of a prostute.

The book makes it sound like it can be great fun at time and pretty crappy at others. I have heard it's lots of fun to be with a prostitute, but would not know....

Beerina · 14th January 2005, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by El Greco

Well, if I was a girl I already know what I would do for a living

That's like saying "If'n I were a doctor, I'd be a gy-nee-cologist!" In reality, for every sweet young thing you see, you see a dozen old and/or diseased "things".

Ok, prostitute. Here comes Heffery, a 350-lb. unbathed 68 year old man with 3 teeth and the IQ of a turnip. That's not a vest! That's the half inch of smegma under his arms rubbing off.

Nah, if you're gonna have a fantasy, make it very specific, like "I wish I were a gorgeous 5'11" lesbian with creamy white porcelain skin and waist-length jet black hair, big red natural lips the size of bicycle inner tubes, full heavy D breasts with 5" dark brown areolae, etc. etc. etc. who makes a living doing lesbian pr0n and lesbian tongue-sucking videos with her 6" tongue. She doesn't fear disease because of a natural resistance to it that is so powerful it actually cleans anyone she sexes with. She is so sexy she can induce lust in anyone of her choosing. Also, she has 10 billion dollars."

dann · 14th January 2005, 01:26 PM

There are some pro and contra questions where you shouldn't take sides. One of them is whether or not prostitution ought to be legal.

For what exactly is prostitution?
On the one hand it's all about sex. And sex is something that most of us enjoy. On the other hand it's all about getting paid - and who doesn't like to receive money? Getting laid and getting paid! Sounds like a match made in heaven, doesn't it?
So where's the rub? Well, sex is usually something that takes place with somebody you find ... well, sexy! Two people find each other attactive and go to bed together. No problem.

But the idea of having sex with a partner that you don't find attactive is rather repulsive (come up with your own examples!). This is the reason why some people can have this as their 'career': the aversion to having sex with a partner you don't find attractive is overcome by means of the payment for this kind of service.
This is the awful truth about prostitution, and it conflicts with the romantic fantasies sometimes associated with this line of business (e.g. Pretty Woman, one of the most disgusting movies I can think of).

Sometimes you hear objections to prostitution along the lines that men and their lechery is the problem. Prostitution could not exist without it.
However, there are women who choose prostitution as an alternative to low-paying jobs, something which feminists tend to ignore, which is a pity, since this is the point that the criticism ought to concentrate on.
There are several services which people perform - and not exactly from inclination. This phenomenon is most often referred to as a job - and it is something that all opinion-formers are very much in favour of, in spite of the fact that it is based on systematic blackmail: People of slender means make a choice between alterntives that is forced upon them. It does not require any more blackmailing than this: the lack of other means to make a living. This is what it takes to force upon people the choice between the job as a checkout girl at K-Mart or becoming a streetwalker. Poverty is all the 'motivation' it takes. No poverty, no prostitution. No matter how horny the men are, the horny man doesn't lead to prostitution without the woman to whom it seems lucrative to oblige him - for money - wether she finds him attractive or even likable or not.
Without her reason for becoming a prostitute, her poverty, the man can be horny as hell - it remains his problem.

And SRW!
How many college professors do you think are callgirls on the side? More than one?

dann · 14th January 2005, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Beerina
Nah, if you're gonna have a fantasy, make it very specific, like ...

A very good point, Beerina!

The idea · 14th January 2005, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dann
Sometimes you hear objections to prostitution along the lines that men and their lechery is the problem.

Alternatively, one could say the probem is men who don't love money enough.

SRW · 14th January 2005, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dann

And SRW!
How many college professors do you think are callgirls on the side? More than one?

I only know of one, Jeannette Angell. I do however work in a college so my guess would be that not very many would make much money at it.

The idea · 14th January 2005, 01:53 PM

For the insufficient love of money is the root of all use of a prostitute's services. Some have been led astray from the habit of chastity by their lack of greed and have pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

1Timothy 6:10

Kerberos · 14th January 2005, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dann
Pretty Woman, one of the most disgusting movies I can think of.

Aren't you taking it just a tad to seriously? I rather like it myself. Sure you could say it glorifies a rather unglorious occupation, but it's an entertaiment movie, not a documentary. Countless movies glorify violence (many of which I've enjoyed too), surely that's more disgusting, if, that is, you take that kind of movies seriously.

dann · 14th January 2005, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kerberos
Aren't you taking it just a tad to seriously? I rather like it myself.

I didn't think it was a documentary when I saw it, but still ...
It is disgusting.
I think Beerina got it right when she said, "if you're gonna have a fantasy ...
By the way, the discussion about prostitutes in Danish here:
http://www.drv.dk/bbs.aspx?fid=20562

pgwenthold · 14th January 2005, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dann
But the idea of having sex with a partner that you don't find attactive is rather repulsive (come up with your own examples!). This is the reason why some people can have this as their 'career': the aversion to having sex with a partner you don't find attractive is overcome by means of the payment for this kind of service.

In the same way, some people can overlook the fact that sometimes people miss the toilet and $hit and pee all over the floor, and they go clean it up. They are the janitors. If you can't handle that, don't be a janitor.

There are lousy aspects to every occupation that have to be overcome in order to do it. Ask a doctor with some of the things they have to endure with patients? Do you worry about the "romantic fantasy" of being a doctor because doctors have to suffer a perpetual cold from October to April? I guarantee you, folks who dream of being a doctor aren't thinking about the glory of getting a call from a patient at 2:30 because they can't sleep (my sis-in-law did; she told the patient to drink a glass of warm milk).

Just because there are things about a job that might be unattractive to you, or even to most people around, is no excuse for outlawing it.

A common objection is, would you want your daughter to be a prostitute? I might say no, but then, I wouldn't want my daughter to scrub toilets for a living, either. It has no bearing on whether it should be illegal or not.

dann · 14th January 2005, 02:50 PM

This line is a user comment at www.imdb.com

The problem with the movie is that it glorifies ... not love, not relationships, not even prostitution, but ... the illusions of a prostitute!
Being a skeptic, what would you say are the chances of a streetwalker not only looking like Julia Roberts but also running into a billionaire who not only looks like Richard Gere but is also willing to marry her?
Well, what are the chances of life on other planets? Let's count the number of known galaxies in the universe, the number of stars in the galaxies, the number of planets ...
The chances of a streetwalker being abducted by aliens are much, much better!
Pretty Woman is the screen version of a prostitute's wet dream, the same way religion is the opium of the people.

dann · 14th January 2005, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pgwenthold
Just because there are things about a job that might be unattractive to you, or even to most people around, is no excuse for outlawing it.
(...)
A common objection is, would you want your daughter to be a prostitute? I might say no, but then, I wouldn't want my daughter to scrub toilets for a living, either. It has no bearing on whether it should be illegal or not.

I think you missed my point:
"There are some pro and contra questions where you shouldn't take sides. One of them is whether or not prostitution ought to be legal."
However, nobody seems to be willing to consider outlawing poverty!

I never heard about doctors 'suffering perpetual colds from October to April'. Where did you hear that one? And what does it have to do with prostitution? Are you saying that in general MDs have just as few options as the women who become prostitutes? And in that case: Why do so few of them turn tricks instead treating patients?

crimresearch · 14th January 2005, 03:06 PM

There are some pro and contra questions where you shouldn't take sides. One of them is whether or not prostitution ought to be legal.

I'm actually confused by that statement.

Pro and con would seem to imply that there *are* sides to be taken, why is the legality of prostitution a special case where we should not?

El Greco · 14th January 2005, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Beerina
Nah, if you're gonna have a fantasy, make it very specific

Nah, I don't have fantasies about being a woman... I was just considering an alternative career option... but... but... lemme watch "American Gigolo" once more.... maybe all isn't lost!

SRW · 14th January 2005, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dann
This line is a user comment at www.imdb.com

The problem with the movie is that it glorifies ... not love, not relationships, not even prostitution, but ... the illusions of a prostitute!
Being a skeptic, what would you say are the chances of a streetwalker not only looking like Julia Roberts but also running into a billionaire who not only looks like Richard Gere but is also willing to marry her?
Well, what are the chances of life on other planets? Let's count the number of known galaxies in the universe, the number of stars in the galaxies, the number of planets ...
The chances of a streetwalker being abducted by aliens are much, much better!
Pretty Woman is the screen version of a prostitute's wet dream, the same way religion is the opium of the people.

Why I can see the headlines tomorrow "Hollywood Movies Plays fast and Loose with Reality" By the way Cinderella did not really happen either but some how it keeps getting told.

Prostitutes are not all the same, there is a huge difference between a Crack Whore and a $500.00 per hour callgirl. I have met quite a few women who met their husbands as customers, not billionairs but relitivily rich American G.I.s.

Bodhi Dharma Zen · 14th January 2005, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dann
No poverty, no prostitution.

Do you really believe that?

dann · 14th January 2005, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SRW
Prostitutes are not all the same, there is a huge difference between a Crack Whore and a $500.00 per hour callgirl.

Yeeees, one of them is a $500.00 per hour whore, the other one is $50.00 per trick whore. What's your point?

Quote:

I have met quite a few women who met their husbands as customers, not billionairs but relitivily rich American G.I.s.

So have I. I used to teach hotel receptionists German. Their job did not pay much, but they hoped to meet the right kind of husband in this way. But again: What's your point? Have you met many prostitutes who met their husbands as customers?

dann · 14th January 2005, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crimresearch
Pro and con would seem to imply that there *are* sides to be taken, why is the legality of prostitution a special case where we should not?

Prostitution sucks! (pun not intended) Making it illegal does not put a stop to it. Eliminating poverty does.

SRW · 14th January 2005, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dann
[b]Yeeees, one of them is a $500.00 per hour whore, the other one is $50.00 per trick whore. What's your point?

So have I. I used to teach hotel receptionists German. Their job did not pay much, but they hoped to meet the right kind of husband in this way. But again: What's your point? Have you met many prostitutes who met their husbands as customers?

Sorry if I was not clear: but yes I have met many former prostitutes who married a customer.

The point is that prostitutes are not all the same. And if you are looking to Hollywood to get your view of the world, you are looking in the wrong place.

dann · 14th January 2005, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dann
No poverty, no prostitution.

Originally posted by Bodhi Dharma Zen
Do you really believe that?

Yes! You don't?!

SRW · 14th January 2005, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dann
Prostitution sucks! (pun not intended) Making it illegal does not put a stop to it. Eliminating poverty does.

Can you provide evidence for this?

dann · 14th January 2005, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SRW
And if you are looking to Hollywood to get your view of the world, you are looking in the wrong place.

Thank you! I'm not!
(And a small correction: "but they hoped to meet the right kind of husband in this way", should have been: but some of them hoped to ...)

dann · 14th January 2005, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SRW
Can you provide evidence for this?

Well, look at Cuba. Prostitution was virtually eliminated in the 1960s, 70s and 80s, then returned in the 1990s when the country was impoverished following the desintegration of the socialist countries that used to support it.

dann · 14th January 2005, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SRW
Sorry if I was not clear: but yes I have met many former prostitutes who married a customer.

OK, I won't ask you to prove it! I haven't met any. Actually I have only met one woman who volunteered the information that she used to be a prostitute, but I still don't get your point.

SRW · 14th January 2005, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dann
Well, look at Cuba. Prostitution was virtually eliminated in the 1960s, 70s and 80s, then returned in the 1990s when the country was impoverished following the desintegration of the socialist countries that used to support it.

So all the stories I heard about the Russian sailors and cubian hookers were wrong...who would have thunk it.

Do you have a link or a source that shows this? And no fair eliminating prostition by calling hookers individual tour guides.

Gulliamo · 14th January 2005, 10:16 PM

What, in your definition, is the difference between a prostitute and someone who marries for money? Or who uses their "assets" to get promoted?

KelvinG · 14th January 2005, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gulliamo
What, in your definition, is the difference between a prostitute and someone who marries for money? Or who uses their "assets" to get promoted?

Well, the prostitute is a lot more honest about what she does.

In reality, a successful prostitute/john relationship is incredibly honest, fufilling and enjoyable for both parties.

Uh, so I've heard.

hgc · 14th January 2005, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dann
Well, look at Cuba. Prostitution was virtually eliminated in the 1960s, 70s and 80s, then returned in the 1990s when the country was impoverished following the desintegration of the socialist countries that used to support it.

I also find this quite dubious. What society on Earth has not prostitution? Is it populated with human men?

jay gw · 14th January 2005, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Nah, I don't have fantasies about being a woman... I was just considering an alternative career option... but... but... lemme watch "American Gigolo" once more.... maybe all isn't lost!

If you wear that speedo swimsuit, I know some guys who could give you some "career options".....

peptoabysmal · 14th January 2005, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dann
Prostitution sucks! (pun not intended) Making it illegal does not put a stop to it. Eliminating poverty does.

Since it's never been done (eliminating poverty), don't you mean you think it would put a stop to prostitution? How do you propose to do this anyway, take from the rich and give to the poor until there are no rich no more?

Cain · 15th January 2005, 01:22 AM

[It's interesting that someone mentions the movie _Pretty Woman_. The _NYT_ did a feature article for its Sunday magazine on the global slave trade and sex industry. Many women in Eastern Europe seeking/forced to become mail-order-brides DO apparently believe that it's not so bad, and they explicitly compare themselves to Julia Roberts in the movie.

14th January 2005, 10:03 AM	#1
El Greco Summer worshipper Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Παρά θιν'αλός Posts: 14,294	Is it so much fun to be a prostitute ? A Greek network has lately focused on expensive call girls who advertise themselves with web sites etc. One of them who was arrested a few weeks ago used to charge 30,000 euros for a weekend. Anyway, in between all this a new story came up today: A father went to visit his daughter who was a student in another city, and thought he could also have some fun. So he calls a girl from a newspaper ad and arranges an appointment in a hotel room. But -as you have probably already figured out- when he opens the door he meets his daughter. The story leaked because the father fainted and they had to call an ambulance. Now the fun part is that the girl comes from a wealthy family and in fact used to receive a generous amount of money from her family each month. When asked by the reporter she said that she didn't really need the money but it was nice to be able to make it, plus she had the opportunity to "expand her circle of acquaintances". Well, if I was a girl I already know what I would do for a living
	__________________ "Robbing a bank is no crime compared to owning one" - Bertolt Brecht "Let it go and come to bed already, El Greco" - MoeFaux

14th January 2005, 10:08 AM	#2
aerocontrols Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,445	Do you have a source? Look like an urban legend...
	__________________ Misunderestimated in 2000. Unredefeated in 2004. My dog does his tricks. My roomate's dog tries to escape the kitchen. We call you to be a people of manners, principles, honour, and purity; to reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling's, and trading with interest. Source

14th January 2005, 10:13 AM	#3
El Greco Summer worshipper Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Παρά θιν'αλός Posts: 14,294	Quote: Originally posted by aerocontrols Do you have a source? Look like an urban legend... This is really hot news, it was aired half an hour ago. And that channel doesn't make up stories, AFAIK. But it doesn't change much, anyway. There are expensive call girls and they certainly don't exactly need the money. So it has to be somewhat fun, doesn't it ?
	__________________ "Robbing a bank is no crime compared to owning one" - Bertolt Brecht "Let it go and come to bed already, El Greco" - MoeFaux

14th January 2005, 11:15 AM	#4
Seismosaurus Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Banbury Posts: 3,547	There's literally nothing you can name that somebody somewhere doesn't enjoy doing, no matter how horrible it may seem to most. Humans are a very diverse people, after all. So yes, I'd say there probably are women who enjoy prostitution. And why not? It's not like they're hurting anybody.
	__________________ Promise of diamonds in eyes of coal She carries beauty in her soul

14th January 2005, 11:24 AM	#5
c0rbin Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,806	Not that I know, but one could, with little empiricism, get me to agree that high-priced call girls have more fun than junky crack-whores.
c0rbin Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,806	__________________ By convention there is color, By convention sweetness, By convention bitterness, But in reality there are atoms and space. --Democritus (c. 400 BCE)

14th January 2005, 11:29 AM	#6
hgc Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 13,019	It's not like this father can really complain (not that I know he is). Afterall, the prostitute he intended to get is someone else's daughter.
	__________________ Bowel-shaking earthquakes of doubt and remorse assail him and wail him with monster truck force. - Cake, The Distance Was there a second singer on the grassy Knowles? - Stephen Colbert

14th January 2005, 11:49 AM	#7
jay gw Suspended Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,824	If you charge alot, you only get the top class types, poor people can't afford you. So you're weeding out the problem people. The lower class street walker types are the ones that really suffer. Almost ALL of them have very serious drug problems, and alot have mental illness and can't work in other jobs. One of the stupidest things is making prostitution illegal. If prostitution is illegal, it means that when they are robbed or beaten etc. they can't go to the police and complain. In places where it's legal the police will help. And, diseases don't spread where it's legal, because they can force you to wear condoms. Illegal prostitutes can't force anyone to do anything. And, it's not dangerous to society. Every time the police arrest someone, it just costs money. For what? They haven't actually harmed anything. Dumb.
jay gw Suspended Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,824

14th January 2005, 12:20 PM	#8
pgwenthold Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 12,071	This is similar to the current story about the junior high speaker who is in trouble for telling 8th graders that strippers can make a lot of money (depending on their bust size). Of course, a lot of parents are howling about it, but his defense is, "It's true." Of course, it is true, but apparently it's not appropriate to tell 8th graders that it is a viable career option. You can tell them that it is ok to scrub toilets for minimum wage if they want to, but suggesting that exotic dancing might be a way to make a lot of money? No way. I don't have the full link, but I read it on www.usatoday.com
	__________________ "Baseball is a philosophy. The primordial ooze that once ruled our world has been captured in perpetual motion. Baseball is the moment. Its ever changing patterns are hypnotizing yet invigorating. Baseball is an art form. Classic and at the same time...progressive. Baseball is pre-historic and post-modern. Baseball is here to stay." (Stolen from the side of a lava lamp box, and modified slightly)

14th January 2005, 01:01 PM	#9
The idea Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,547	Quote: Originally posted by jay gw One of the stupidest things is making prostitution illegal. Are you using the word "stupidest" to avoid using some concept such as "unjust", "unethical", or "immoral"? What about those who, aware of the costs and consequences of laws against prostitution, still approve of such laws? You wouldn't be able to accuse them of ignorance. Perhaps you could say they are stupid on the grounds that they fail to recognize that the costs are too high or that the consequences are too negative. However, that would suggest that, if there were significantly lower costs or less severe consequences, then people could approve of laws against prostitution without deserving the label "stupid." In this scenario, they are comparing the costs and consequences to something. Maybe there are those who know all about the actual costs and consequences and think they are worth it. Maybe they aren't stupidly failing to make an accurate comparison. Maybe they are measuring things against a standard that differs from your standard.
	__________________ I resolve to neither provoke nor appease evil.

14th January 2005, 01:02 PM	#10
SRW Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 2,901	Just finished reading Callgirl it is written by Jeannette Angell, a college professor who is a callgirl on the side. Not a great read but very intresting look in to the life of a prostute. The book makes it sound like it can be great fun at time and pretty crappy at others. I have heard it's lots of fun to be with a prostitute, but would not know....
SRW Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 2,901

14th January 2005, 01:20 PM	#11
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	Re: Is it so much fun to be a prostitute ? Quote: Originally posted by El Greco Well, if I was a girl I already know what I would do for a living That's like saying "If'n I were a doctor, I'd be a gy-nee-cologist!" In reality, for every sweet young thing you see, you see a dozen old and/or diseased "things". Ok, prostitute. Here comes Heffery, a 350-lb. unbathed 68 year old man with 3 teeth and the IQ of a turnip. That's not a vest! That's the half inch of smegma under his arms rubbing off. Nah, if you're gonna have a fantasy, make it very specific, like "I wish I were a gorgeous 5'11" lesbian with creamy white porcelain skin and waist-length jet black hair, big red natural lips the size of bicycle inner tubes, full heavy D breasts with 5" dark brown areolae, etc. etc. etc. who makes a living doing lesbian pr0n and lesbian tongue-sucking videos with her 6" tongue. She doesn't fear disease because of a natural resistance to it that is so powerful it actually cleans anyone she sexes with. She is so sexy she can induce lust in anyone of her choosing. Also, she has 10 billion dollars."
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

14th January 2005, 01:26 PM	#12
dann Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Frederiksberg (Copenhagen) Posts: 2,921	Fun to be a prostitute? Hardly ... There are some pro and contra questions where you shouldn't take sides. One of them is whether or not prostitution ought to be legal. For what exactly is prostitution? On the one hand it's all about sex. And sex is something that most of us enjoy. On the other hand it's all about getting paid - and who doesn't like to receive money? Getting laid and getting paid! Sounds like a match made in heaven, doesn't it? So where's the rub? Well, sex is usually something that takes place with somebody you find ... well, sexy! Two people find each other attactive and go to bed together. No problem. But the idea of having sex with a partner that you don't find attactive is rather repulsive (come up with your own examples!). This is the reason why some people can have this as their 'career': the aversion to having sex with a partner you don't find attractive is overcome by means of the payment for this kind of service. This is the awful truth about prostitution, and it conflicts with the romantic fantasies sometimes associated with this line of business (e.g. Pretty Woman, one of the most disgusting movies I can think of). Sometimes you hear objections to prostitution along the lines that men and their lechery is the problem. Prostitution could not exist without it. However, there are women who choose prostitution as an alternative to low-paying jobs, something which feminists tend to ignore, which is a pity, since this is the point that the criticism ought to concentrate on. There are several services which people perform - and not exactly from inclination. This phenomenon is most often referred to as a job - and it is something that all opinion-formers are very much in favour of, in spite of the fact that it is based on systematic blackmail: People of slender means make a choice between alterntives that is forced upon them. It does not require any more blackmailing than this: the lack of other means to make a living. This is what it takes to force upon people the choice between the job as a checkout girl at K-Mart or becoming a streetwalker. Poverty is all the 'motivation' it takes. No poverty, no prostitution. No matter how horny the men are, the horny man doesn't lead to prostitution without the woman to whom it seems lucrative to oblige him - for money - wether she finds him attractive or even likable or not. Without her reason for becoming a prostitute, her poverty, the man can be horny as hell - it remains his problem. And SRW! How many college professors do you think are callgirls on the side? More than one?
	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

14th January 2005, 01:30 PM	#13
dann Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Frederiksberg (Copenhagen) Posts: 2,921	Re: Re: Is it so much fun to be a prostitute ? Quote: Originally posted by Beerina Nah, if you're gonna have a fantasy, make it very specific, like ... A very good point, Beerina!
	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

14th January 2005, 01:40 PM	#14
The idea Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,547	Re: Fun to be a prostitute? Hardly ... Quote: Originally posted by dann Sometimes you hear objections to prostitution along the lines that men and their lechery is the problem. Alternatively, one could say the probem is men who don't love money enough.
	__________________ I resolve to neither provoke nor appease evil.

14th January 2005, 01:50 PM	#15
SRW Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 2,901	Re: Fun to be a prostitute? Hardly ... Quote: Originally posted by dann And SRW! How many college professors do you think are callgirls on the side? More than one? I only know of one, Jeannette Angell. I do however work in a college so my guess would be that not very many would make much money at it.
SRW Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 2,901

14th January 2005, 01:53 PM	#16
The idea Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,547	For the insufficient love of money is the root of all use of a prostitute's services. Some have been led astray from the habit of chastity by their lack of greed and have pierced themselves through with many sorrows. 1Timothy 6:10
	__________________ I resolve to neither provoke nor appease evil.

14th January 2005, 01:55 PM	#17
Kerberos Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,608	Re: Fun to be a prostitute? Hardly ... Quote: Originally posted by dann Pretty Woman, one of the most disgusting movies I can think of. Aren't you taking it just a tad to seriously? I rather like it myself. Sure you could say it glorifies a rather unglorious occupation, but it's an entertaiment movie, not a documentary. Countless movies glorify violence (many of which I've enjoyed too), surely that's more disgusting, if, that is, you take that kind of movies seriously.
Kerberos Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,608	__________________ Bible code: A method for obtaining hidden messages from texts that contains none, for the purpose of predicting events after they happen. "When the facts are on you side, but the law is against you, stress the facts. When the law is on your side, but the facts are against you stress the law. When both the facts and the law is against you, pound the table and yell like hell". Laywer maxim

14th January 2005, 02:09 PM	#18
dann Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Frederiksberg (Copenhagen) Posts: 2,921	Re: Re: Fun to be a prostitute? Hardly ... Quote: Originally posted by Kerberos Aren't you taking it just a tad to seriously? I rather like it myself. I didn't think it was a documentary when I saw it, but still ... It is disgusting. I think Beerina got it right when she said, "if you're gonna have a fantasy ... By the way, the discussion about prostitutes in Danish here: http://www.drv.dk/bbs.aspx?fid=20562
	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

14th January 2005, 02:41 PM	#19
pgwenthold Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 12,071	Re: Fun to be a prostitute? Hardly ... Quote: Originally posted by dann But the idea of having sex with a partner that you don't find attactive is rather repulsive (come up with your own examples!). This is the reason why some people can have this as their 'career': the aversion to having sex with a partner you don't find attractive is overcome by means of the payment for this kind of service. In the same way, some people can overlook the fact that sometimes people miss the toilet and $hit and pee all over the floor, and they go clean it up. They are the janitors. If you can't handle that, don't be a janitor. There are lousy aspects to every occupation that have to be overcome in order to do it. Ask a doctor with some of the things they have to endure with patients? Do you worry about the "romantic fantasy" of being a doctor because doctors have to suffer a perpetual cold from October to April? I guarantee you, folks who dream of being a doctor aren't thinking about the glory of getting a call from a patient at 2:30 because they can't sleep (my sis-in-law did; she told the patient to drink a glass of warm milk). Just because there are things about a job that might be unattractive to you, or even to most people around, is no excuse for outlawing it. A common objection is, would you want your daughter to be a prostitute? I might say no, but then, I wouldn't want my daughter to scrub toilets for a living, either. It has no bearing on whether it should be illegal or not.
	__________________ "Baseball is a philosophy. The primordial ooze that once ruled our world has been captured in perpetual motion. Baseball is the moment. Its ever changing patterns are hypnotizing yet invigorating. Baseball is an art form. Classic and at the same time...progressive. Baseball is pre-historic and post-modern. Baseball is here to stay." (Stolen from the side of a lava lamp box, and modified slightly)

14th January 2005, 02:50 PM	#20
dann Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Frederiksberg (Copenhagen) Posts: 2,921	"Only in Hollywood could they turn Cinderella into a sugar-coated whore." This line is a user comment at www.imdb.com The problem with the movie is that it glorifies ... not love, not relationships, not even prostitution, but ... the illusions of a prostitute! Being a skeptic, what would you say are the chances of a streetwalker not only looking like Julia Roberts but also running into a billionaire who not only looks like Richard Gere but is also willing to marry her? Well, what are the chances of life on other planets? Let's count the number of known galaxies in the universe, the number of stars in the galaxies, the number of planets ... The chances of a streetwalker being abducted by aliens are much, much better! Pretty Woman is the screen version of a prostitute's wet dream, the same way religion is the opium of the people.
	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

14th January 2005, 03:00 PM	#21
dann Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Frederiksberg (Copenhagen) Posts: 2,921	Re: Re: Fun to be a prostitute? Hardly ... Quote: Originally posted by pgwenthold Just because there are things about a job that might be unattractive to you, or even to most people around, is no excuse for outlawing it. (...) A common objection is, would you want your daughter to be a prostitute? I might say no, but then, I wouldn't want my daughter to scrub toilets for a living, either. It has no bearing on whether it should be illegal or not. I think you missed my point: "There are some pro and contra questions where you shouldn't take sides. One of them is whether or not prostitution ought to be legal." However, nobody seems to be willing to consider outlawing poverty! I never heard about doctors 'suffering perpetual colds from October to April'. Where did you hear that one? And what does it have to do with prostitution? Are you saying that in general MDs have just as few options as the women who become prostitutes? And in that case: Why do so few of them turn tricks instead treating patients?
	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

14th January 2005, 03:06 PM	#22
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618	There are some pro and contra questions where you shouldn't take sides. One of them is whether or not prostitution ought to be legal. I'm actually confused by that statement. Pro and con would seem to imply that there are sides to be taken, why is the legality of prostitution a special case where we should not?
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618

14th January 2005, 03:17 PM	#23
El Greco Summer worshipper Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Παρά θιν'αλός Posts: 14,294	Re: Re: Is it so much fun to be a prostitute ? Quote: Originally posted by Beerina Nah, if you're gonna have a fantasy, make it very specific Nah, I don't have fantasies about being a woman... I was just considering an alternative career option... but... but... lemme watch "American Gigolo" once more.... maybe all isn't lost!
	__________________ "Robbing a bank is no crime compared to owning one" - Bertolt Brecht "Let it go and come to bed already, El Greco" - MoeFaux

14th January 2005, 03:20 PM	#24
SRW Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 2,901	Re: "Only in Hollywood could they turn Cinderella into a sugar-coated whore." Quote: Originally posted by dann This line is a user comment at www.imdb.com The problem with the movie is that it glorifies ... not love, not relationships, not even prostitution, but ... the illusions of a prostitute! Being a skeptic, what would you say are the chances of a streetwalker not only looking like Julia Roberts but also running into a billionaire who not only looks like Richard Gere but is also willing to marry her? Well, what are the chances of life on other planets? Let's count the number of known galaxies in the universe, the number of stars in the galaxies, the number of planets ... The chances of a streetwalker being abducted by aliens are much, much better! Pretty Woman is the screen version of a prostitute's wet dream, the same way religion is the opium of the people. Why I can see the headlines tomorrow "Hollywood Movies Plays fast and Loose with Reality" By the way Cinderella did not really happen either but some how it keeps getting told. Prostitutes are not all the same, there is a huge difference between a Crack Whore and a $500.00 per hour callgirl. I have met quite a few women who met their husbands as customers, not billionairs but relitivily rich American G.I.s.
SRW Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 2,901

14th January 2005, 03:48 PM	#25
Bodhi Dharma Zen Advaitin Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Here Posts: 3,809	Re: Fun to be a prostitute? Hardly ... Quote: Originally posted by dann No poverty, no prostitution. Do you really believe that?

14th January 2005, 03:52 PM	#26
dann Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Frederiksberg (Copenhagen) Posts: 2,921	Re: Re: "Only in Hollywood could they turn Cinderella into a sugar-coated whore." Quote: Originally posted by SRW Prostitutes are not all the same, there is a huge difference between a Crack Whore and a $500.00 per hour callgirl. Yeeees, one of them is a $500.00 per hour whore, the other one is $50.00 per trick whore. What's your point? Quote: I have met quite a few women who met their husbands as customers, not billionairs but relitivily rich American G.I.s. So have I. I used to teach hotel receptionists German. Their job did not pay much, but they hoped to meet the right kind of husband in this way. But again: What's your point? Have you met many prostitutes who met their husbands as customers?
	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

14th January 2005, 04:02 PM	#27
dann Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Frederiksberg (Copenhagen) Posts: 2,921	Quote: Originally posted by crimresearch *Pro and con would seem to imply that there are* sides to be taken, why is the legality of prostitution a special case where we should not?** Prostitution sucks! (pun not intended) Making it illegal does not put a stop to it. Eliminating poverty does.
	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

14th January 2005, 04:04 PM	#28
SRW Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 2,901	Re: Re: Re: "Only in Hollywood could they turn Cinderella into a sugar-coated whore." Quote: Originally posted by dann [b]Yeeees, one of them is a $500.00 per hour whore, the other one is $50.00 per trick whore. What's your point? So have I. I used to teach hotel receptionists German. Their job did not pay much, but they hoped to meet the right kind of husband in this way. But again: What's your point? Have you met many prostitutes who met their husbands as customers? Sorry if I was not clear: but yes I have met many former prostitutes who married a customer. The point is that prostitutes are not all the same. And if you are looking to Hollywood to get your view of the world, you are looking in the wrong place.
SRW Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 2,901

14th January 2005, 04:05 PM	#29
dann Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Frederiksberg (Copenhagen) Posts: 2,921	Re: Re: Fun to be a prostitute? Hardly ... Quote: Originally posted by dann No poverty, no prostitution. Originally posted by Bodhi Dharma Zen Do you really believe that? Yes! You don't?!
	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

14th January 2005, 04:06 PM	#30
SRW Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 2,901	Quote: Originally posted by dann Prostitution sucks! (pun not intended) Making it illegal does not put a stop to it. Eliminating poverty does. Can you provide evidence for this?
SRW Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 2,901

14th January 2005, 04:10 PM	#31
dann Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Frederiksberg (Copenhagen) Posts: 2,921	Re: Re: Re: Re: "Only in Hollywood could they turn Cinderella into a sugar-coated whore." Quote: Originally posted by SRW And if you are looking to Hollywood to get your view of the world, you are looking in the wrong place. Thank you! I'm not! (And a small correction: "but they hoped to meet the right kind of husband in this way", should have been: but some of them* hoped to ...*)
	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

14th January 2005, 04:15 PM	#32
dann Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Frederiksberg (Copenhagen) Posts: 2,921	Quote: Originally posted by SRW Can you provide evidence for this? Well, look at Cuba. Prostitution was virtually eliminated in the 1960s, 70s and 80s, then returned in the 1990s when the country was impoverished following the desintegration of the socialist countries that used to support it.
	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

14th January 2005, 04:25 PM	#33
dann Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Frederiksberg (Copenhagen) Posts: 2,921	Re: Re: Re: Re: "Only in Hollywood could they turn Cinderella into a sugar-coated whore." Quote: Originally posted by SRW Sorry if I was not clear: but yes I have met many former prostitutes who married a customer. OK, I won't ask you to prove it! I haven't met any. Actually I have only met one woman who volunteered the information that she used to be a prostitute, but I still don't get your point.
	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

14th January 2005, 04:31 PM	#34
SRW Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 2,901	Quote: Originally posted by dann Well, look at Cuba. Prostitution was virtually eliminated in the 1960s, 70s and 80s, then returned in the 1990s when the country was impoverished following the desintegration of the socialist countries that used to support it. So all the stories I heard about the Russian sailors and cubian hookers were wrong...who would have thunk it. Do you have a link or a source that shows this? And no fair eliminating prostition by calling hookers individual tour guides.
SRW Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 2,901

14th January 2005, 10:16 PM	#35
Gulliamo Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NYC Posts: 488	What, in your definition, is the difference between a prostitute and someone who marries for money? Or who uses their "assets" to get promoted?
	__________________ Understand, you have a right to a belief and a theory, but when they are contradicted by observation, you probably should reconsider them. -Doctor X "I'll pray for you." -Kirk Cameron (Evangelist) "I'll think for you." -Brian Sapient (Rational Responders)