|JREF Homepage||Swift Blog||Events Calendar||$1 Million Paranormal Challenge||The Amaz!ng Meeting||Useful Links||Support Us|
|Welcome to the JREF Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.|
|22nd February 2005, 01:29 AM||#1|
Join Date: Sep 2003
Ray Kurzweil, Voyage Overboard into Quackdom
Ray Kurzweil, who is a respected Futurist, Inventor, Writer, Speaker, has come out with a new bookâ¦"Fantastic Voyage : Live Long Enough to Live Forever", saying that humans will live forever.
The problem with this book, is that it turns out that Kurzweil and his business partner Dr. Terry Grossman, are really just peddling a line of New Age health products, and are recommending all sorts of expensive Quack medical treatments, in my view, simply to make money.
I think its time that Kurzweil be EXPOSED for abandoning science, and moving into new age pseudoscience, and making money off it. Here are the relevant links for the book, and the relevant websites.
Below also is some of my personal rants on this book, to voice my displeasure with this anti-scientific hogwash.
I hope you will get a chance to review this book. Sadly, it seems he too has turned away from science, and moved into Wishful Thinking, the Almighty New Age Health dollar, and PR stunts.
Also, his business partner, Dr. Terry Grossman is practicing Quack medicine.
These guys need some reality injected into the profitable phantasy's.
Its time for Kurzweil to be unmasked.
Fantastic Voyage : Live Long Enough to Live Forever by Ray Kurzweil and Terry Grossman
Website for the book. (lots of links for Quack products for sale)
Website for these guys New Age health products.
Website of Terry Grossman MD, just FULL of product marketing, expensive "testing" and moneymaking "alternative" treatments. This is a money machine.
A summary of SOME of what they are selling and teaching. (It starts out ok, but then slips into scamola zone)
Ray Kurzweil's main website
--------Kurzweil's critics say--------
Critics say Kurzweil's predictions of immortality are wild fantasies based on unjustifiable leaps from current technology.
"I'm not calling Ray a quack, but I am calling his message about immortality in line with the claims of other quacks that are out there." said Thomas Perls, a Boston University aging specialist who studies the genetics of centenarians.
Sherwin Nuland, a bioethics professor at Yale University's School of Medicine, calls Kurzweil a "genius" but also says he's a product of a narcissistic age when brilliant people are becoming obsessed with their longevity.
"They've forgotten they're acting on the basic biological fear of death and extinction, and it distorts their rational approach to the human condition," Nuland said.
Some of my personal random rants on this book....
Hi there, I have enjoyed Kurzweils stuff until now.
BUT, this Fantastic Voyage stuff, is NOT science.
I was completely shocked to see Dr Terry Grossman saying, "well, i ate some tree bark, and my knee got better, and i stopped and started to test for the placebo". That is so outrageous, its beyond reproach.
Does he not even know the first thing about science?
You have to do controlled tests with large samples, REPEATEDLY.
And just because "Ray did X and feels better" doesn't mean a damn thing.
There are people who claim eating seal penises make them virile.
I am trying to read this book, but it is NOT SCIENCE.
And some Dr. who prescribes a bunch of untested "alternative" stuff to his patients, just some Quack doc doing his own thing, and making some money.
Where is the SCIENCE?
This stuff about "alkalinity" is BOGUS!
Sure, don't drink pop, but this book is a terrible disappointment to me.
I fear we might have someone who is extremely obsessive and neurotic about their Health, and is not following the methods of science, which is the ONLY way to go in the complex area of Nutrition.
Otherwise, join the long line of Quacks!!
If Kurzweil has crossed over to the Dark Side of unproven superstition, and bad science, then that is a sad day.
I just read "Rays personal program".
One day a week, he SPENDS THE DAY receiving intravenous therapies while working from an office! He also takes 250 supplements a day, and give a list for "what each supplement does".
Folks, this is not science. This has nothing to do with science.
Can i be blunt? I don't want to be offensive, as i liked Ray's other books, but this is pure "neurosis".
He happens to be a wealthy man, afraid of dying and disease, and is an extremely obsessive person.
We have a "Howard Hughes" type of a situation here.
To sit in a office and have your body pumped full of stuff ALL DAY, in some "alternative" practice? Can you spell anti-death obsessed Super-Yuppy with money to burn?
This "health stuff" of Kurzweil' is literally a "Howard Hughes syndrome". Even Grossman said Kurzweil takes as much time as 12 of his most difficult patients.
I can give you the end of this story.
This is NOT going to happen as they claim. Not even close. Not for a VERY VERY long time.
Ray will have a "normal lifespan", and sadly will pass away, like the rest of us.
But i am glad folks are out there raising these questions.
But they need SCIENCE, not primitive, untested Beliefs. This type of Quack stuff helps no one.
But this is not even science fiction.
Its just pseudoscience, and extremely sloppy thinking. Wishful thinking.
This is not helping, its hurting, and setting things backward, if anything.
Sorry guys, and i hope this is not just about making money by selling supplements. I hope not.
Terry Grossman is not a scientist, and sadly, he exists in Quackdom.
Frankly, he is an Entrepreneur, who is making a lot of money, but is doing nothing for science, as far as i can see.
He floats things like his diet can help autism.
WHERE'S THE PROOF?
WHERE'S THE PEER-REVIEWED PUBLISHED PAPERS ?
Its all anecdotes, to lure people to his clinic.
Notice how he has all these all "services" for sale, for a lot of money?
His website is just about SELLING CRAP TO PEOPLE.
In my view, this guy is just another alternative con-artist, out to get rich. Grossman is just pulling this stuff out of his butt. What Grossman, and i guess Kurzweil have seem to forgotten, is that this type of science progresses very SLOWLY due to the fact that STUDIES are trial and error.
Man, i am so disappointed. This has been a real reality check.
These guys are blowing some serious smoke.
I am really quite ticked-off....
Well, here is my opinion.
There are some decent health tips, like exercise, stop eating crap, eat well, lose weight, etc.
But there is an enormous amount of smoke-blowing in this book.
And lets face it, this is a BUSINESS for these guys. Its largely about making more money.
There is no real research behind this stuff, just SELLING stuff. This is not science.
A real disappointment.
I understand people are dissatisfied with "modern medicine". But there is no evidence that overdosing on vitamins is good for you.
This alkaline water thing, is another SCAM, and there is no evidence for it. (i don't trust those "studies" they quote).
What is really depressing is that Kurzweil KNOWS BETTER THAN THIS. Or he should.
I think he could have just written a fun, speculative book about the possible future. Great!
But to include all this Quack stuff is embarrassing.
Maybe Kurzweil is losing it? I don't know.
Maybe he always was a showman.
But these two guys are not doing science, they are running a BUSINESS to make money selling supplements built on anecdotes.
Will they make money? Sure! Its big business.
Will they live forever? No way.
Maybe someday humanity will reach this objective.
But all the crap Quack stuff these guys are blowing really damages their credibility.
Maybe they don't care?
I bet Grossman doesn't. It could be that he is so arrogant that he think he can prescribe a bunch of quack stuff for his patients, and believe he is right. He's a QUACK.
If they would have written about the POSSIBLE FUTURE, and stuck to PROVEN therapies, and not tried to SELL SELL SELL junk to credulous people, then i would have approved. But they have walked away from science, and into primitive superstition, and sloppy thinking, and Greed.
By the way, if these guys are such Geniuses, why hasn't the journals Nature or Science published their ideas? Doh! Must be a conspiracy against them!!
This is either a Delusion or a Confidence Trick.
Are folks that are into Kurzweil's stuff Skeptical Thinkers, or True Believers?
I personally am into the Transhumanist trip, i like it. Its fun.
And i do believe that SOMEDAY humans will become something like immortal, and move into space, and become another species.
Carl Sagan even put that forward in Pale Blue Dot.
Its a cool idea.
But these 2 guys selling their bloody PROTEIN SHAKES are not helping this goal!
Kurzweil should use his money to do RESEARCH, REAL scientific research, and not just fill himself full of mega-vitamins.
If humans do become immortal, it won't be thanks to these guys.
There are real scientists, doing the BORING small steps needed.
I am all for Kurzweil doing the Visionary thing, why not. But to forsake science, in this manner, is unforgivable.
This is NOT going to happen in Ray's lifetime, and i am NOT going to buy his and this other dudes New Age bogus health products.
After this, Kurzweil cannot be trusted. He is either delusional, or has put self-interest first.
Its just another Quack diet, and Quack medical procedures.
It would not surprise me if Kurzweil died around the same age as his father. Some of these things are genetic.
I HOPE he has a long life, but stuff happens.
I will not be suckered into this Confidence Trick they are pulling.
Someone of these ideas are hundreds of years away, if not MUCH MUCH further.
Evolution has taken BILLIONS of years to set this up. Humans are NOT going to figure it out in decades.
But i am glad people are TRYING, but Kurzweil and this other guy have GIVEN UP on real science, and are simply CASHING IN.
I enjoy the Transhumanism Vision, its fun, but this stuff in their book is Quack Medicine.
Just wait, the facts will come out.
Notice how there isn't really any REVIEWS yet of this work in the legit science field?
Because it is a book of fiction, not science.
Only the credulous New Agers are reviewing it.
Sorry, but them's the facts. Life is harsh.
But better to know the harsh truth, than live in delusion and ignorance.
Kurzweil, come clean with this nonsense!
Stop "selling your vision" and stick to the FACTS, and SCIENCE.
That is the way to move forward, not more New Age horseh*t.
It seems that Kurzweil is moving into the realm of having "followers" and True Believers, and is not dealing with science anymore.
Kurzweil is doing too much DREAMING, and not using science, or Skeptical Thinking to analyze the facts.
Its too bad Ray didn't use his platform to push REAL scientific change.
But that takes ENORMOUS personal and scientific credibility, and frankly he doesn't have it anymore.
Hooking up with this Grossman was a BIG mistake. The guys a Quack!
No thanks, i stick to legit thinkers and scientists, not salesmen and PR promoters.
Who knows, maybe Kurzweil will wake up. Probably not though.
Maybe he knows its all just a bunch of hooey, and is just a big self-promoter?
They should have set up a PROPER scientific research foundation, and done PROPER research in this field.
But they don't want to do that.
It takes TOO LONG, and COSTS MONEY.
These dudes want to MAKE MONEY NOW.
Sadly, that's what i think its all about.
Or maybe Ray thinks he can start a "New Religion", based on his ideas.
I am sure he can.
Maybe even a type of "cult".
But he has lost the respect of the real scientists and thinkers in this world.
Maybe he doesn't care?
Maybe its all just a PR stunt for the media?
Maybe he is just trying to mess with people's heads?
Maybe its about cashing in on the New Age Health market?
If you want to, please contact the SKEPTICAL sites on the internet about Kurzweil, its time he gets exposed for what he is doing.