What about a Challenge television show?

WriterAtLarge · 24th February 2005, 04:36 PM

Believe it or not, this is NOT my first post at the JREF. it's just been some time, and I've lost access to my old account ...

Anyway, I've been reading these Million Dollar Challenge forum posts with great interest, and I had an idea I thought I'd toss out for discussion. What do you think about the idea of a Million Dollar Challenge reality television show? it could follow a couple of formats. It could be done in a a challenge-an-episode format, documenting what a claimant says they can do, designing protocol, preliminary testing, etc (the format of a Supernanny or Monster Garage or Mythbusters. Or, it could be a more free-form style, focusing on several weeks of life at JREF and several claimants as their stories develop (akin to the way the Osbournes or the Real World document their events). It could even be framed like a competition, in the mode of Apprentice or Survivor!

A production staff would help make it happen (interviewing claimants, getting committments, even setting up testing facilites), and a camera crew would document everything for posterity (and our own amusement). Kramer could star

. Such a show would not only be good exposure for the JREF, but it might help inject critical thinking into its audience, as they see all the psychics and dowsers and woo-woos fall one by one.

Thoughts? I know it's just a flight of my fancy, but I think it would be a keen idea. but then, I've watched every episode of Survivor, from the very first to the very latest ...

--W@L

sf108 · 24th February 2005, 06:53 PM

Randi did one in Korea on SBS I think. It ran for several weeks, and the Korean investigation/camera crew did a great job in weeding out those frauds.

The funniest is when the Korean audience makes this "wooOOOooo" reaction everytime some fraud get's exposed. LoL!

I wish there was more of this kind of show.

Skeptical Greg · 24th February 2005, 07:48 PM

This idea was kicked around a bit in this thread..

Is KRAMER wasting his time?

I would certainly like to see it done...

Questioninggeller · 24th February 2005, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sf108
Randi did one in Korea on SBS I think. It ran for several weeks, and the Korean investigation/camera crew did a great job in weeding out those frauds.

The funniest is when the Korean audience makes this "wooOOOooo" reaction everytime some fraud get's exposed. LoL!

I wish there was more of this kind of show.

Is any of that available online? Sounds pretty funny.

Darat · 24th February 2005, 11:49 PM

I think you would find that the fact that no-one (so far) has been able to do what they say they can do means the networks wouldn't consider there enough "drama" to sustain an audience's interest.

BPSCG · 25th February 2005, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darat
I think you would find that the fact that no-one (so far) has been able to do what they say they can do means the networks wouldn't consider there enough "drama" to sustain an audience's interest.

Well, yeah, but wouldn't the cancellation of the show for such a reason be a cause for rejoicing?

I mean, if people really did demonstrate paranormal abilities week after week, no doubt the ratings would be great.

But if after a couple of seasons, people stopped tuning in because "everyone knows these guys can't ever do what they claim..." well, isn't that what we've been trying to get people to understand all along?

And don't forget the freak-show value. Granted, you want to weed out the truly mentally ill ones so they don't get on TV, but wouldn't it be great to get the charlatans on the air and expose them?

Have Penn and Teller host, and after the claimant has failed, have Penn bray (I'm sorry, but that's how I'd describe his voice), "Now, we can't say we have any special powers, but if this guy was a magician, he might have tried to do it this way..." and then proceed to do a magic trick that more or less replicated the claimant's paranormal claim (without revealing how the trick was done, of course).

I know I'd watch.

Brown · 25th February 2005, 08:02 AM

This idea was kicked around some time ago.

Linda proposed a name for the show that was--in my judgment--outstanding:

"Woo-woo Wants To Be A Millionaire"

LostAngeles · 25th February 2005, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BPSCG
Well, yeah, but wouldn't the cancellation of the show for such a reason be a cause for rejoicing?

I mean, if people really did demonstrate paranormal abilities week after week, no doubt the ratings would be great.

But if after a couple of seasons, people stopped tuning in because "everyone knows these guys can't ever do what they claim..." well, isn't that what we've been trying to get people to understand all along?

And don't forget the freak-show value. Granted, you want to weed out the truly mentally ill ones so they don't get on TV, but wouldn't it be great to get the charlatans on the air and expose them?

Have Penn and Teller host, and after the claimant has failed, have Penn bray (I'm sorry, but that's how I'd describe his voice), "Now, we can't say we have any special powers, but if this guy was a magician, he might have tried to do it this way..." and then proceed to do a magic trick that more or less replicated the claimant's paranormal claim (without revealing how the trick was done, of course).

I know I'd watch.

I was liking the idea before, but I think I'm liking it even more now. Thing is, Penn & Teller already have their Showtime show and I'm sure there's some contractual stuff in there about doing another, similar, show.

WriterAtLarge · 25th February 2005, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BPSCG
[b]But if after a couple of seasons, people stopped tuning in because "everyone knows these guys can't ever do what they claim..." well, isn't that what we've been trying to get people to understand all along?

That had been my thinking precisely. These people make the claims; and there's a dozen shows out there that demonstrate "psychics' without criticism (Montell, Larry King, Crossing Over, etc.). Not only is there the promise of a million dollars here, but of doing it on national television, where they could "in your face" Randi in front of the whole nation if they won? No woo-woo would resist that.

And if they fail ... well, you know ...

Quote:

And don't forget the freak-show value. Granted, you want to weed out the truly mentally ill ones so they don't get on TV, but wouldn't it be great to get the charlatans on the air and expose them?

Exactly, AGAIN, my thoughts. That's why I think the best format would be a woo-woo an episode. Follow one claimant from claim to testing. Film their home life, them discussing their abilities, them demonstrating for the camera, then the protocols, the testing, and their failure, their excuses afterwards ("The cameras don't believe in me! They're putting off bad vibes!").

--W@L

BPSCG · 3rd March 2005, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LostAngeles
I was liking the idea before, but I think I'm liking it even more now. Thing is, Penn & Teller already have their Showtime show and I'm sure there's some contractual stuff in there about doing another, similar, show.

Fine, then get some other magician with an "in your face" attitude - I'm sure JREF would have no trouble finding someone. Maybe pair him up with Bill Nye the Science Guy. Intercut the challenge with Nye explaining how the laws of physics make the claim improbable, and magician interrupting with, "Not for a magician - watch me!"

And when the claimant fails, have Nye sign off with a signature line, like "I guess the laws of physics apply to him, too. Good night, Magic Guy."

And the magician signs off with, "I guess he wasn't much of a magician. Good night, Science Guy."

Gr8wight · 3rd March 2005, 06:48 AM

The problem here is that it wouldn't take a couple od seasons for people to stop watching, but merely a couple of episodes. Look at the nature of the currently available programming on the topic of the paranormal, and understand that we, as skeptics, are an incredibly small segment of the population. The overwhelming majority of people believe in the paranormal. As such, they simply ignore any and all evidence disputing it. That is their nature. They would also ignore any television show that resembles what is being discussed here.

Now, what I would like to see would be more like a hard hitting investigative journalism show, similar to 20/20. Have a camera crew actually following Sylvia Browne around. Set up a hidden camera sting operation of a John Edward reading. Can you see Penn Jillette standing outside the door of Derek Acorah's house yelling, "we just want to ask you some questions," while Teller points to the window, where we can catch a glimpse of Mrs' Acorah peeking out from behind the curtains? We can get Geraldo involved, just in case anyone throws a punch.

BPSCG · 3rd March 2005, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gr8wight
The problem here is that it wouldn't take a couple od seasons for people to stop watching, but merely a couple of episodes.

You think so? I think with the right promos and teasers, they could stretch it out indefinitely: "Tonight on Woo Wants to be a Millionaire?, Joe Sclub claims he can levitate! Can he do it? Tune in at 9:00 (8:00 central) and find out the amazing truth!"

"Tonight on Woo Wants to be a Millionaire?, Jane Schlub says she can see your aura! Watch how she does it! Tune in at 9:00 (8:00 central) and find out the amazing truth!"

Quote:

The overwhelming majority of people believe in the paranormal.

I dispute that. Yes, there are certainly a lot of fools out there, but there are also a lot of people who simply don't know. Lady in my office, not particularly well-educated, fairly credulous, enjoyed listening to Sylvia Browne on Montel Williams's show for a while (she has a desk radio that tunes in TV sound). Then she made the mistake of telling me and I told her exactly how cold reading works. I finished off with, "Next time she's on, listen to how many questions she asks. If she knows all and sees all, how come she's asking so many questions?"

Now every time Sylvia comes on Montel's show, my co-worker tells me, "Your girlfriend's on..." and laughs. And then she invariably follows up with, "You know, you're right, why does she ask so many questions?"

It can be done. Especially if it's entertaining.

Gr8wight · 3rd March 2005, 05:58 PM

OK. So it turns out it's not an overwhelming majority. Merely a small majority. The most recent figures I could find quickly are from 2001. http://home.sandiego.edu/~baber/logic/gallup.html

Quote:

POLL ANALYSES
June 8, 2001

Americans' Belief in Psychic and Paranormal Phenomena Is up Over Last Decade
Belief in psychic healing and extrasensory perception top the list

According to the May, 2001 Gallup poll, 54% of Americans believe in Psychic or Spiritual healing, and 50% believe in ESP. However, those numbers are trending the wrong way. They were both up by at least five percentage points since 1991, so I assume they are slightly higher again today (at least judging by the ridiculous television programming available right now).

Although...perhaps we can be on the leading edge of a new trend of public sensibility...

CFLarsen · 3rd March 2005, 10:36 PM

We actually had one in Denmark two years ago, about the Challenge.

During four shows, Danish astrologers, psychics, dowsers and a phrenologist were offered the million bucks, if they could do something paranormal.

One astrologer was tested formally, but failed miserably.
A phrenologist was tested formally, but failed miserably.

Three dowsers were tested, but failed miserably.
A psychic was tested, but failed miserably.

Two dowsers bailed out.

One astrologer - Karen Boesen - refused to participate, but was secretly tested: She was given the birthdata of two people, and was supposed to find the best candidate for a top job. One guy was a convicted drug dealer, and the other a convicted murderer. She chose the murderer.

Another astrologer - Ole Giber - originally said he would participate, but got very "busy" the very next day and declined.

A third astrologer - Christian Borup - simply refused to participate. The reason:

"When astrologers have been tested, it has always turned out badly."

When asked for whom, he wrote himself into history by replying:

"The astrologers."

Carn · 4th March 2005, 05:19 AM

A few smaller broadcasters made 1 hour shows from dowsers tested, when Randi was in germany last sep or so. I do not think that more than a 300000 - 600000 people watched.
And since the show replaced or was included either in regular serious programs about science or replaced non sensational informative program, it is to be expected, that there were few believers among them.

A Uri Geller show going roughly 2.5 hours was shown a month later by the biggest broadcaster and it got them 14 million viewers, which is afaik 25%, so good 8% above their normal rates. Especially annoying was, that they called their show "the great experiment with uri geller", which is a laugh, because there was nothing about experiment with the show. Show was moderated by the mostly liked moderator.
They even had half a week later a 2 hour show about the reactions they had from the viewers, you know all the testimoies about moving spoons. Only positiv is that someone from german sceptics was invited to that show, though i didn't see it, so i do not know how convincing he was, though at least he stated clearly that Geller should apply for the million, if he realy can do something.
I fear they are planning another Geller show this or next year.

Carn

Carn · 4th March 2005, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gr8wight
OK. So it turns out it's not an overwhelming majority. Merely a small majority. The most recent figures I could find quickly are from 2001. http://home.sandiego.edu/~baber/logic/gallup.html

According to the May, 2001 Gallup poll, 54% of Americans believe in Psychic or Spiritual healing, and 50% believe in ESP. However, those numbers are trending the wrong way. They were both up by at least five percentage points since 1991, so I assume they are slightly higher again today (at least judging by the ridiculous television programming available right now).

Although...perhaps we can be on the leading edge of a new trend of public sensibility...

Further thing from the poll:
"
Education
Americans with the highest levels of education are more likely than others to believe in the power of the mind to heal the body. On the other hand, belief in three of the phenomena tested goes up as the educational level of the respondent goes down: possession by the devil, astrology and haunted houses.
"

Education seems to help a bit, but not much.

"Age
There are interesting differences in belief in these varied experiences by the age of the respondent. Younger Americans -- those 18-29 -- are much more likely than those who are older to believe in haunted houses, in witches, in ghosts, that extraterrestrials have visited earth, and in clairvoyance. There is little significant difference in belief in the other items by age group. Those 30 and older are somewhat more likely to believe in possession by the devil than are the younger group.
"

Obviously had to much time to watch x-files.
Not bad the first few seasons, i was constantly waiting for moulder offering some of his ridiculous explanation about an event, where scully counters with some rational argument and points out, how ridiculous moulders idea is and then at the end the resolvement showed, that actually scully's explanation was right and moulder's really completely nonsense.

Did anyone ever test, how much influence seeing some fictionous work has upon the opinion, even if the person knows, it is pure fiction?
I'm suspecting, that even if we know, that it is fiction, our habits and believes will be influenced. Would be of course relevant also for non-paranormal things, e.g. i'm suspecting, that part of politician's bad fame is from fictious work, in those nearly always politicians are bribable and only thinking about winning next elections or saints. I'm suspecting that some realy sort them that way and as obviously all our politicians are not saints, they got to be of the other kind.

Thinking about it the test could be funny, first a poll, then seperation in 5 groups having to watch 24 hours TV, one daily soaps(placebo), one comedy shows(placebo),one star trek, one x-files and the last psi factor(i think that is a different category compared to x-files) and then repolling and psychological treatment, especially for the daily soaps group.

Carn

Ashles · 4th March 2005, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Carn
Did anyone ever test, how much influence seeing some fictionous work has upon the opinion, even if the person knows, it is pure fiction?

Well one thing that surely must be a result is that it 'formalises' the form of certain delusions.

For example if I had a waking dream about an alien, years of TV and media will have given me a clear image for the alien.

If I asked 5 skeptics to draw an alien chances are most would draw a 'grey'.

It means that people who have hallucinations and waking dreams etc. are far more likely to use the same imagery. This tends to bolster belief because their experience is similar to other people's.

As another poster put it - It's like how years ago people who were abducted by UFOs described levers and machines, these days they describe computers and electronics.

People don't realise that their experiences are like other people's because they all watch the same TV shows.

Sin City Teacher · 4th March 2005, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by WriterAtLarge
What do you think about the idea of a Million Dollar Challenge reality television show?

I agree, I think it would be a great show.

joehjulies · 15th March 2005, 12:39 AM

I would personally like to see a show more in the vein of "CSI" , with a small team investigating paranormal claims and their various techniques and methods used.
I love reading about on the spot investigation! But I can't seem to think of any actors who could play as James Randi!
Personally, I think it would be a great way to introduce the general public to scams and such, without them even knowing they are being taught. muahaha.

Nihilanth · 15th March 2005, 04:51 PM

I think this kind of show would be a little hard to get off the ground, but not because skeptics are a minority. I think this could actually work in the show's favor, if you could get the angle that these people might actually possess these abilities. Then people would tune in, see that it's fake, and hopefully it'll get them thinking. Even if it didn't, people might just tune in to see people disgraced. Sad but true, people love to see stuff like that.
No, I think the main problem would be the usual cop-outs. People would apply for it, everything would be set up, and then they'd either get cold feet because they know they've never been that thoroughly tested and are relatively sure it wouldn't work, or the people are scam artists and KNOW it wouldn't work. Then you'd just get a whole season of build-up with no finish.
I think the best way to go is work with the American Idol angle (someone comes up, does their bit, and then are mocked mercilessly), and then get some really famous paranormalists to agree with it (the really tricky part). Then play it all up like the people actually have a chance, and there you go.
Well, I'D watch it, anyway.

24th February 2005, 04:36 PM	#1
WriterAtLarge New Blood Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 2	What about a Challenge television show? Believe it or not, this is NOT my first post at the JREF. it's just been some time, and I've lost access to my old account ... Anyway, I've been reading these Million Dollar Challenge forum posts with great interest, and I had an idea I thought I'd toss out for discussion. What do you think about the idea of a Million Dollar Challenge reality television show? it could follow a couple of formats. It could be done in a a challenge-an-episode format, documenting what a claimant says they can do, designing protocol, preliminary testing, etc (the format of a Supernanny or Monster Garage or Mythbusters. Or, it could be a more free-form style, focusing on several weeks of life at JREF and several claimants as their stories develop (akin to the way the Osbournes or the Real World document their events). It could even be framed like a competition, in the mode of Apprentice or Survivor! A production staff would help make it happen (interviewing claimants, getting committments, even setting up testing facilites), and a camera crew would document everything for posterity (and our own amusement). Kramer could star . Such a show would not only be good exposure for the JREF, but it might help inject critical thinking into its audience, as they see all the psychics and dowsers and woo-woos fall one by one. Thoughts? I know it's just a flight of my fancy, but I think it would be a keen idea. but then, I've watched every episode of Survivor, from the very first to the very latest ... --W@L
WriterAtLarge New Blood Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 2

24th February 2005, 06:53 PM	#2
sf108 Thinker Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sydney Posts: 180	Randi did one in Korea on SBS I think. It ran for several weeks, and the Korean investigation/camera crew did a great job in weeding out those frauds. The funniest is when the Korean audience makes this "wooOOOooo" reaction everytime some fraud get's exposed. LoL! I wish there was more of this kind of show.
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24th February 2005, 07:48 PM	#3
Skeptical Greg Agave Wine Connoisseur Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Just past 'Resume Speed' Posts: 12,873	This idea was kicked around a bit in this thread.. Is KRAMER wasting his time? I would certainly like to see it done...
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24th February 2005, 11:49 PM	#5
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,803	I think you would find that the fact that no-one (so far) has been able to do what they say they can do means the networks wouldn't consider there enough "drama" to sustain an audience's interest.
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

25th February 2005, 07:59 AM	#6
BPSCG Cannibal Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Looting Fafner's Cave Posts: 17,556	Quote: Originally posted by Darat I think you would find that the fact that no-one (so far) has been able to do what they say they can do means the networks wouldn't consider there enough "drama" to sustain an audience's interest. Well, yeah, but wouldn't the cancellation of the show for such a reason be a cause for rejoicing? I mean, if people really did demonstrate paranormal abilities week after week, no doubt the ratings would be great. But if after a couple of seasons, people stopped tuning in because "everyone knows these guys can't *ever* do what they claim..." well, isn't that what we've been trying to get people to understand all along? And don't forget the freak-show value. Granted, you want to weed out the truly mentally ill ones so they don't get on TV, but wouldn't it be great to get the charlatans on the air and expose them? Have Penn and Teller host, and after the claimant has failed, have Penn bray (I'm sorry, but that's how I'd describe his voice), "Now, we can't say we have any special powers, but if this guy was a magician, he might have tried to do it this way..." and then proceed to do a magic trick that more or less replicated the claimant's paranormal claim (without revealing how the trick was done, of course). I know I'd watch.
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24th February 2005, 11:18 PM	#4
Questioninggeller Illuminator Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 3,030	Quote: Originally posted by sf108 Randi did one in Korea on SBS I think. It ran for several weeks, and the Korean investigation/camera crew did a great job in weeding out those frauds. The funniest is when the Korean audience makes this "wooOOOooo" reaction everytime some fraud get's exposed. LoL! I wish there was more of this kind of show. Is any of that available online? Sounds pretty funny.

25th February 2005, 08:02 AM	#7
Brown Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Twin Cities, Canada Posts: 12,184	This idea was kicked around some time ago. Linda proposed a name for the show that was--in my judgment--outstanding: "Woo-woo Wants To Be A Millionaire"
	__________________ Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it. Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I am very sorry. I wish it were otherwise. -- The Day The Earth Stood Still, screenplay by Edmund H. North "Don't you get me wrong. I only want to know." -- Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar, lyrics by Tim Rice

25th February 2005, 12:54 PM	#8
LostAngeles Anti-WM Jihadist Join Date: May 2004 Location: Having a cup of tea. Posts: 10,159	Quote: Originally posted by BPSCG Well, yeah, but wouldn't the cancellation of the show for such a reason be a cause for rejoicing? I mean, if people really did demonstrate paranormal abilities week after week, no doubt the ratings would be great. But if after a couple of seasons, people stopped tuning in because "everyone knows these guys can't *ever* do what they claim..." well, isn't that what we've been trying to get people to understand all along? And don't forget the freak-show value. Granted, you want to weed out the truly mentally ill ones so they don't get on TV, but wouldn't it be great to get the charlatans on the air and expose them? Have Penn and Teller host, and after the claimant has failed, have Penn bray (I'm sorry, but that's how I'd describe his voice), "Now, we can't say we have any special powers, but if this guy was a magician, he might have tried to do it this way..." and then proceed to do a magic trick that more or less replicated the claimant's paranormal claim (without revealing how the trick was done, of course). I know I'd watch. I was liking the idea before, but I think I'm liking it even more now. Thing is, Penn & Teller already have their Showtime show and I'm sure there's some contractual stuff in there about doing another, similar, show.
	__________________ "There is also a likelihood that the settlement will fall between two biomes, potentially hazardous if the player expects a peaceful oceanside meadow, without realizing the ocean is full of amphibious zombie whales." - Dwarf Fortress Wik

25th February 2005, 02:02 PM	#9
WriterAtLarge New Blood Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 2	Quote: Originally posted by BPSCG [b]But if after a couple of seasons, people stopped tuning in because "everyone knows these guys can't *ever* do what they claim..." well, isn't that what we've been trying to get people to understand all along? That had been my thinking precisely. These people make the claims; and there's a dozen shows out there that demonstrate "psychics' without criticism (Montell, Larry King, Crossing Over, etc.). Not only is there the promise of a million dollars here, but of doing it on national television, where they could "in your face" Randi in front of the whole nation if they won? No woo-woo would resist that. And if they fail ... well, you know ... Quote: And don't forget the freak-show value. Granted, you want to weed out the truly mentally ill ones so they don't get on TV, but wouldn't it be great to get the charlatans on the air and expose them? Exactly, AGAIN, my thoughts. That's why I think the best format would be a woo-woo an episode. Follow one claimant from claim to testing. Film their home life, them discussing their abilities, them demonstrating for the camera, then the protocols, the testing, and their failure, their excuses afterwards ("The cameras don't believe in me! They're putting off bad vibes!"). --W@L
WriterAtLarge New Blood Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 2

3rd March 2005, 06:27 AM	#10
BPSCG Cannibal Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Looting Fafner's Cave Posts: 17,556	Quote: Originally posted by LostAngeles I was liking the idea before, but I think I'm liking it even more now. Thing is, Penn & Teller already have their Showtime show and I'm sure there's some contractual stuff in there about doing another, similar, show. Fine, then get some other magician with an "in your face" attitude - I'm sure JREF would have no trouble finding someone. Maybe pair him up with Bill Nye the Science Guy. Intercut the challenge with Nye explaining how the laws of physics make the claim improbable, and magician interrupting with, "Not for a magician - watch me!" And when the claimant fails, have Nye sign off with a signature line, like "I guess the laws of physics apply to him, too. Good night, Magic Guy." And the magician signs off with, "I guess he wasn't much of a magician. Good night, Science Guy."
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3rd March 2005, 06:48 AM	#11
Gr8wight red-shirted crewman Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,641	The problem here is that it wouldn't take a couple od seasons for people to stop watching, but merely a couple of episodes. Look at the nature of the currently available programming on the topic of the paranormal, and understand that we, as skeptics, are an incredibly small segment of the population. The overwhelming majority of people believe in the paranormal. As such, they simply ignore any and all evidence disputing it. That is their nature. They would also ignore any television show that resembles what is being discussed here. Now, what I would like to see would be more like a hard hitting investigative journalism show, similar to 20/20. Have a camera crew actually following Sylvia Browne around. Set up a hidden camera sting operation of a John Edward reading. Can you see Penn Jillette standing outside the door of Derek Acorah's house yelling, "we just want to ask you some questions," while Teller points to the window, where we can catch a glimpse of Mrs' Acorah peeking out from behind the curtains? We can get Geraldo involved, just in case anyone throws a punch.
	__________________ Aurora Walking Vacation "A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight and understanding."--Marshall McLuhan

3rd March 2005, 12:09 PM	#12
BPSCG Cannibal Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Looting Fafner's Cave Posts: 17,556	Quote: Originally posted by Gr8wight The problem here is that it wouldn't take a couple od seasons for people to stop watching, but merely a couple of episodes. You think so? I think with the right promos and teasers, they could stretch it out indefinitely: "Tonight on Woo Wants to be a Millionaire?, Joe Sclub claims he can levitate! Can he do it? Tune in at 9:00 (8:00 central) and find out the amazing truth!" "Tonight on Woo Wants to be a Millionaire?, Jane Schlub says she can see your aura! Watch how she does it! Tune in at 9:00 (8:00 central) and find out the amazing truth!" Quote: The overwhelming majority of people believe in the paranormal. I dispute that. Yes, there are certainly a lot of fools out there, but there are also a lot of people who simply don't know. Lady in my office, not particularly well-educated, fairly credulous, enjoyed listening to Sylvia Browne on Montel Williams's show for a while (she has a desk radio that tunes in TV sound). Then she made the mistake of telling me and I told her exactly how cold reading works. I finished off with, "Next time she's on, listen to how many questions she asks. If she knows all and sees all, how come she's asking so many questions?" Now every time Sylvia comes on Montel's show, my co-worker tells me, "Your girlfriend's on..." and laughs. And then she invariably follows up with, "You know, you're right, why does she ask so many questions?" It can be done. Especially if it's entertaining.
	__________________ Philanthropist (n.) - Someone who spends his own money to advance his version of Utopia. Socialist (n.) - Someone who spends your money to advance his version of Utopia.

3rd March 2005, 05:58 PM	#13
Gr8wight red-shirted crewman Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,641	OK. So it turns out it's not an overwhelming majority. Merely a small majority. The most recent figures I could find quickly are from 2001. http://home.sandiego.edu/~baber/logic/gallup.html Quote: POLL ANALYSES June 8, 2001 Americans' Belief in Psychic and Paranormal Phenomena Is up Over Last Decade Belief in psychic healing and extrasensory perception top the list According to the May, 2001 Gallup poll, 54% of Americans believe in Psychic or Spiritual healing, and 50% believe in ESP. However, those numbers are trending the wrong way. They were both up by at least five percentage points since 1991, so I assume they are slightly higher again today (at least judging by the ridiculous television programming available right now). Although...perhaps we can be on the leading edge of a new trend of public sensibility...
	__________________ Aurora Walking Vacation "A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight and understanding."--Marshall McLuhan

3rd March 2005, 10:36 PM	#14
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,804	We actually had one in Denmark two years ago, about the Challenge. During four shows, Danish astrologers, psychics, dowsers and a phrenologist were offered the million bucks, if they could do something paranormal. One astrologer was tested formally, but failed miserably. A phrenologist was tested formally, but failed miserably. Three dowsers were tested, but failed miserably. A psychic was tested, but failed miserably. Two dowsers bailed out. One astrologer - Karen Boesen - refused to participate, but was secretly tested: She was given the birthdata of two people, and was supposed to find the best candidate for a top job. One guy was a convicted drug dealer, and the other a convicted murderer. She chose the murderer. Another astrologer - Ole Giber - originally said he would participate, but got very "busy" the very next day and declined. A third astrologer - Christian Borup - simply refused to participate. The reason: "When astrologers have been tested, it has always turned out badly." When asked for whom, he wrote himself into history by replying: "The astrologers."
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4th March 2005, 05:19 AM	#15
Carn Muse Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 966	A few smaller broadcasters made 1 hour shows from dowsers tested, when Randi was in germany last sep or so. I do not think that more than a 300000 - 600000 people watched. And since the show replaced or was included either in regular serious programs about science or replaced non sensational informative program, it is to be expected, that there were few believers among them. A Uri Geller show going roughly 2.5 hours was shown a month later by the biggest broadcaster and it got them 14 million viewers, which is afaik 25%, so good 8% above their normal rates. Especially annoying was, that they called their show "the great experiment with uri geller", which is a laugh, because there was nothing about experiment with the show. Show was moderated by the mostly liked moderator. They even had half a week later a 2 hour show about the reactions they had from the viewers, you know all the testimoies about moving spoons. Only positiv is that someone from german sceptics was invited to that show, though i didn't see it, so i do not know how convincing he was, though at least he stated clearly that Geller should apply for the million, if he realy can do something. I fear they are planning another Geller show this or next year. Carn
Carn Muse Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 966

4th March 2005, 05:35 AM	#16
Carn Muse Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 966	Quote: Originally posted by Gr8wight OK. So it turns out it's not an overwhelming majority. Merely a small majority. The most recent figures I could find quickly are from 2001. http://home.sandiego.edu/~baber/logic/gallup.html According to the May, 2001 Gallup poll, 54% of Americans believe in Psychic or Spiritual healing, and 50% believe in ESP. However, those numbers are trending the wrong way. They were both up by at least five percentage points since 1991, so I assume they are slightly higher again today (at least judging by the ridiculous television programming available right now). Although...perhaps we can be on the leading edge of a new trend of public sensibility... Further thing from the poll: " Education Americans with the highest levels of education are more likely than others to believe in the power of the mind to heal the body. On the other hand, belief in three of the phenomena tested goes up as the educational level of the respondent goes down: possession by the devil, astrology and haunted houses. " Education seems to help a bit, but not much. "Age There are interesting differences in belief in these varied experiences by the age of the respondent. Younger Americans -- those 18-29 -- are much more likely than those who are older to believe in haunted houses, in witches, in ghosts, that extraterrestrials have visited earth, and in clairvoyance. There is little significant difference in belief in the other items by age group. Those 30 and older are somewhat more likely to believe in possession by the devil than are the younger group. " Obviously had to much time to watch x-files. Not bad the first few seasons, i was constantly waiting for moulder offering some of his ridiculous explanation about an event, where scully counters with some rational argument and points out, how ridiculous moulders idea is and then at the end the resolvement showed, that actually scully's explanation was right and moulder's really completely nonsense. Did anyone ever test, how much influence seeing some fictionous work has upon the opinion, even if the person knows, it is pure fiction? I'm suspecting, that even if we know, that it is fiction, our habits and believes will be influenced. Would be of course relevant also for non-paranormal things, e.g. i'm suspecting, that part of politician's bad fame is from fictious work, in those nearly always politicians are bribable and only thinking about winning next elections or saints. I'm suspecting that some realy sort them that way and as obviously all our politicians are not saints, they got to be of the other kind. Thinking about it the test could be funny, first a poll, then seperation in 5 groups having to watch 24 hours TV, one daily soaps(placebo), one comedy shows(placebo),one star trek, one x-files and the last psi factor(i think that is a different category compared to x-files) and then repolling and psychological treatment, especially for the daily soaps group. Carn
Carn Muse Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 966

4th March 2005, 05:58 AM	#17
Ashles Pith Artist Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The '80s Posts: 8,711	Quote: Originally posted by Carn Did anyone ever test, how much influence seeing some fictionous work has upon the opinion, even if the person knows, it is pure fiction? Well one thing that surely must be a result is that it 'formalises' the form of certain delusions. For example if I had a waking dream about an alien, years of TV and media will have given me a clear image for the alien. If I asked 5 skeptics to draw an alien chances are most would draw a 'grey'. It means that people who have hallucinations and waking dreams etc. are far more likely to use the same imagery. This tends to bolster belief because their experience is similar to other people's. As another poster put it - It's like how years ago people who were abducted by UFOs described levers and machines, these days they describe computers and electronics. People don't realise that their experiences are like other people's because they all watch the same TV shows.
	__________________ With extraordinary few exceptions no educated person in the history of Western Civilization from the third century B.C. onward believed that the earth was flat. - Jeffrey Burton Russell No one "proved" that a bumblebee can't fly. What was shown was that a certain simple mathematical model wasn't adequate or appropriate - Ivars Peterson

4th March 2005, 07:08 AM	#18
Sin City Teacher Student Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 25	Re: What about a Challenge television show? Quote: Originally posted by WriterAtLarge What do you think about the idea of a Million Dollar Challenge reality television show? I agree, I think it would be a great show.
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15th March 2005, 12:39 AM	#19
joehjulies New Blood Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1	I would personally like to see a show more in the vein of "CSI" , with a small team investigating paranormal claims and their various techniques and methods used. I love reading about on the spot investigation! But I can't seem to think of any actors who could play as James Randi! Personally, I think it would be a great way to introduce the general public to scams and such, without them even knowing they are being taught. muahaha.
joehjulies New Blood Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1

15th March 2005, 04:51 PM	#20
Nihilanth Thinker Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 131	I think this kind of show would be a little hard to get off the ground, but not because skeptics are a minority. I think this could actually work in the show's favor, if you could get the angle that these people might actually possess these abilities. Then people would tune in, see that it's fake, and hopefully it'll get them thinking. Even if it didn't, people might just tune in to see people disgraced. Sad but true, people love to see stuff like that. No, I think the main problem would be the usual cop-outs. People would apply for it, everything would be set up, and then they'd either get cold feet because they know they've never been that thoroughly tested and are relatively sure it wouldn't work, or the people are scam artists and KNOW it wouldn't work. Then you'd just get a whole season of build-up with no finish. I think the best way to go is work with the American Idol angle (someone comes up, does their bit, and then are mocked mercilessly), and then get some really famous paranormalists to agree with it (the really tricky part). Then play it all up like the people actually have a chance, and there you go. Well, I'D watch it, anyway.
Nihilanth Thinker Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 131	__________________ I think perhaps the most important problem is that we are trying to understand the fundamental workings of the universe via a language devised for telling one another when the best fruit is. -- (Terry Pratchett, alt.fan.pratchett)