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4th March 2005, 10:49 PM | #1 |
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Bill Maher says vaccines don't prevent disease
Yes, he really did say that. And also that Pasteur recanted on his deathbed. OK, that proves it then.
It ruined the rest of the show for me. Ugh! In the words of Bugs Bunny: "what a maroon". |
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4th March 2005, 10:54 PM | #2 |
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Maybe he's just unaware of why FDR used a wheelchair, and how a few generations since haven't seen many of their own crippled and killed by Polio -- since Polio packed its bags and left town unexpectedly. Sheesh.
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4th March 2005, 11:46 PM | #3 |
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Proof that intelligence is not a prerequisite for having a talk show... or even being a journalist.
You could alway send him this link: http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/pasteur.htm ... and then ask him why there is a mumps epidemic in the UK, and why polio seems to pop up in parts of Nigeria that refused the vaccine. |
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5th March 2005, 01:20 AM | #4 |
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Was Maher maybe being sarcastic? Would one really think he himself rejects the existence of microbes?
Why was he saying that vaccines don't work? Who was he debating with? Why did the topic come up? |
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Motion affecting a measuring device does not affect what is actually being measured, except to inaccurately measure it. the immaterial world doesn't matter, cause it ain't matter-Jeff Corey my karma ran over my dogma-vbloke The Lateral Truth: An Apostate's Bible Stories by Rebecca Bradley, read it! |
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5th March 2005, 01:31 AM | #5 |
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I was watching The Shield the other day. The main character has a son that's autistic. This season they just started a new storyline about it. A lawyer involved in a class action lawsuit claiming a mercury additive in vaccines ( I don't think they mentioned Thymerosal by name) causes autism contacted him and his wife (soon to be ex). They had a chat with him, and the wife (a nurse) seemed to buy into this. Hopefully they'll eventually do the right thing on the show.
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5th March 2005, 01:51 AM | #6 |
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Who is Bill Maher? Could someone give a quick precis for someone who is not a citizen of one of the former colonies
BSM |
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"i'm frankly surprised homeopathy does as well as placebo" Anonymous homeopath. "Alas, to wear the mantle of Galileo it is not enough that you be persecuted by an unkind establishment; you must also be right." (Robert Park) Is the pen is mightier than the sword? Its effectiveness as a weapon is certainly enhanced if it is sharpened properly and poked in the eye of your opponent. |
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5th March 2005, 01:52 AM | #7 |
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5th March 2005, 03:06 AM | #8 |
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"i'm frankly surprised homeopathy does as well as placebo" Anonymous homeopath. "Alas, to wear the mantle of Galileo it is not enough that you be persecuted by an unkind establishment; you must also be right." (Robert Park) Is the pen is mightier than the sword? Its effectiveness as a weapon is certainly enhanced if it is sharpened properly and poked in the eye of your opponent. |
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5th March 2005, 08:14 AM | #9 |
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5th March 2005, 08:18 AM | #10 |
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It came up in the context of why medical costs in the US are so high. We get sick because of all the processed foods we eat (it’s a conspiracy between the pharma companies and the food companies, or something), and disease isn’t caused by germs. I think. |
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5th March 2005, 08:21 AM | #11 |
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5th March 2005, 08:23 AM | #12 |
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I normally like him - he's pretty good at political satire and has a lot of interesting guests. |
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5th March 2005, 10:35 AM | #13 |
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That's it. I am convinced. If Bill Maher says so it must be true. WHO is more qualified than he is? Oh, I see. WHO is Bill Maher.
(extremely bad pun intended) |
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A neighbor once found Nasrudin searching for something on the street outside his house. "What have you lost, Mulla?" he asked. "My key," said Nasrudin. So they both went down on their hands and knees and looked for it. After a time the other man asked: "Where exactly did you drop it?" "In my house." "Then why, for Heaven's sake, are you looking out here?" "There is more light here." from Lucidity Institute Search Page |
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5th March 2005, 10:41 AM | #14 |
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Well Billy Boy goes on my list next to the South African health minister who feels that HIV doesn't cause aids and we should eat garlic instead of requesting anti-retrovirals
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5th March 2005, 01:06 PM | #15 |
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I just can't wrap my head around it. What? Say What?? What????? He's gone mad. He's nuts. He's lost it! I just don't get it. Did he say what his source of information was or anything? Is he a scientologist now? |
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Motion affecting a measuring device does not affect what is actually being measured, except to inaccurately measure it. the immaterial world doesn't matter, cause it ain't matter-Jeff Corey my karma ran over my dogma-vbloke The Lateral Truth: An Apostate's Bible Stories by Rebecca Bradley, read it! |
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5th March 2005, 01:09 PM | #16 |
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Motion affecting a measuring device does not affect what is actually being measured, except to inaccurately measure it. the immaterial world doesn't matter, cause it ain't matter-Jeff Corey my karma ran over my dogma-vbloke The Lateral Truth: An Apostate's Bible Stories by Rebecca Bradley, read it! |
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5th March 2005, 02:31 PM | #17 |
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Well this us upsetting. I thought the only thing I didn't like about Maher's opinions was his apparent attitude all women are gold diggers. My first thought was as above, it must be some comment taken out of context. So I went to his website.
I haven't found Bill's official opinion so I'll wait for the transcripts but I did find this 12/04 forum thread re vaccines. Eeek!! It's really bad. I will be posting my comments on there later tonight. The board is so slow to load pages right now, I'm going to wait and see if that is a traffic issue and try later. There are a few level headed posts but some twisted thinkers predominated and their last posts weren't addressed. If the descriptions of Maher's positions are correct then ol' Bill is poorly educated as to how the immune system works. Sounds like he may be buying into the incorrect premise that fighting disease naturally strengthens your immune system more than fighting disease with vaccines, and, that antibiotics make you weaker rather than making the bacteria more resistant. What a shame folks with such misconceptions haven't been enlightened by those more knowledgeable considering how much bad influence such public speakers have on susceptible minds. |
5th March 2005, 02:39 PM | #18 |
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5th March 2005, 02:50 PM | #19 |
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You want to prevent the spread of the virus to the baby. The use of AZT was rejected. |
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Motion affecting a measuring device does not affect what is actually being measured, except to inaccurately measure it. the immaterial world doesn't matter, cause it ain't matter-Jeff Corey my karma ran over my dogma-vbloke The Lateral Truth: An Apostate's Bible Stories by Rebecca Bradley, read it! |
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5th March 2005, 03:01 PM | #20 |
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JCVN Boag I must be the only person in the world with a Mum who can float and a neighbour who can fly. |
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5th March 2005, 03:19 PM | #21 |
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5th March 2005, 03:38 PM | #22 |
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Motion affecting a measuring device does not affect what is actually being measured, except to inaccurately measure it. the immaterial world doesn't matter, cause it ain't matter-Jeff Corey my karma ran over my dogma-vbloke The Lateral Truth: An Apostate's Bible Stories by Rebecca Bradley, read it! |
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5th March 2005, 05:09 PM | #23 |
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I was bored, so I transcribed the section on healthcare. The panel is Janet Reno, Dave Foley (from News Radio and nowadays poker), and Dr. Bernadine Healy, ex head of the Red Cross or something similar.
ETA: All spelling errors, and some grammatical errors are obviously mine.
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6th March 2005, 01:30 PM | #24 |
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The difference is not everyone with HIV has access to or for other reasons is on antiretroviral therapies. In populations with no access to antiretrovirals just using AZT for a specific but limited time prevented a large % of HIV in the newborn. |
6th March 2005, 01:38 PM | #25 |
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What an idiot. The transcript also shows the responders' ignorance in countering Maher's remarks. I would have asked some very different questions. |
6th March 2005, 05:06 PM | #26 |
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6th March 2005, 06:12 PM | #27 |
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6th March 2005, 06:45 PM | #28 |
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It's not the mosquitos? It's the swamp that makes them suck blood and spread malaria around?
Eh?? These people are warped and delusional. You can be the most healthy person on the planet and you will still get cancer, you will still get the flu, and you can still die if you contract HIV. You can see microbes under a microscope for gosh sakes. There are opportunistic microbes that are harmless under some conditions, but harmful under others. Meh, don't matter, not like the idiots can see my post. |
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Motion affecting a measuring device does not affect what is actually being measured, except to inaccurately measure it. the immaterial world doesn't matter, cause it ain't matter-Jeff Corey my karma ran over my dogma-vbloke The Lateral Truth: An Apostate's Bible Stories by Rebecca Bradley, read it! |
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6th March 2005, 08:13 PM | #29 |
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6th March 2005, 08:16 PM | #30 |
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6th March 2005, 09:47 PM | #31 |
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Bill Maher has a point, but he supported it badly.
In past shows, he has ranted about the hazards to health that are caused by vested corporate interests. Try to find a can of good-tasting soda pop that doesn't have high fructose corn syrup in it. Try to find a restaurant where the unhealthy entrees don't vastly outnumber the healthy ones. Try to find a grocery store where you can buy unprocessed, healthy foods at reasonable prices. The same sort of problem exists with the pharmaceutical companies: vested interests cause those in the health care field to advance profit over patient welfare. The drug companies always push the patent medicines. They don't test medicines that can't turn a profit. They urge a pill for every problem. To some degree, there is truth in this. Economic forces on their own can tend to perpetuate unhealthy behavior and use of unhealthy products, with inadequate fixes to the health problems. But to say that the theory of vaccination is flawed seems to border upon idiocy. Vaccination has been repeatedly tested for over 200 years, and the evidence for efficacy is very good. It is quite another thing, of course, to criticize vaccination programs or policies, some of which have been poorly thought out and poorly implemented. One can have some legitimate complaints about particular vaccination programs or policies. But it is foolish to say that vaccination as a whole is not a scientifically proven tool for protection against disease. |
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6th March 2005, 10:14 PM | #32 |
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If you look in the produce aisle you can find lots of healthy unprocessed food. Just with a couple pounds of ham (sorry, there is no way to have that without it being "processed") I have or will make three meals... first ham with mashed potatoes (boil peeled potatoes, mash them, add butter and milk... butter being "processed" from the cream that came when the cow was milked), then ham fried rice -- which included soy sauce made from "processed" fermented soy beans, and finally the rest will be made into scalloped potatoes with ham... using flour -- which is "processed" wheat berries. Though I wonder what he means by "unprocessed"... I do not often see wheat, oat or rice in their unprocessed state. But I also do not think that Mr. Maher would be willing to remove the husks, or mill the grains to make bread... or make chocolate (see http://www.internationalskeptics.com...threadid=53232 ) I sincerely doubt that Mr. Mahar spends much time hanging out in the grocery store, much less the kitchen... And... I know that he gets his "health" information from Libertarian type of sources (look up "Schlafly" and "vaccine" on www.ratbags.com/rsoles ). They are big on this kind of information... but some have been known to be educated ( http://www.internationalskeptics.com...threadid=45092 Anyway, I am comforted that he has not reproduced. |
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6th March 2005, 10:24 PM | #33 |
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Seriously, my neighborhood grocery has aisle after aisle of processed food, and apart from a pretty decent produce section, very little healthy food. It is hard to find nuts without salt or cereal (like raisin bran) without added sugar. There is a very limited selection of low-calorie snacks, but an ample selection of high-calorie snacks. There is actually an establishment close to the grocery store that tells people where to find the healthy food in the grocery store (and often advises them to go to other grocery stores to find things). |
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6th March 2005, 10:43 PM | #34 |
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6th March 2005, 10:58 PM | #35 |
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What is wrong with processed food per se? For that matter, what _is_ processed food? I have a general idea but is there a specific definition? I'm hesitant to mark something down as being unhealthy simply because it's "processed." Whether a food is healthy depends on the content of the food.
I don't think you need to be a great cook to buy fairly healthy, not too expensive food that isn't hard to make. Plenty of food (fruits, vegetables, bread, etc) can either be eaten as is or after a few minutes in the microwave or on the stove. |
6th March 2005, 10:59 PM | #36 |
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Please tell where you get unprocessesed: Flour Rice Soy Sauce Oats Butter Milk Oh, here is a good one: tapioca ... and if you find a place that still sells meat that is breathing, let me know!!! (and yes! I have had to deal with a recently deceased chicken, and NO, I do not want to talk about it!) In the mean time: Learn to cook! Here is a good place to start (note it is not the most recent edition): Joy of Cooking |
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6th March 2005, 11:16 PM | #37 |
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6th March 2005, 11:33 PM | #38 |
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As for the items on your shopping list, I don't buy any of them. This is sometimes a source of amusement when my parents come to visit and decide to make a meal in my kitchen. They find I have in my home no flour, no sugar, no butter...! Also, no alcoholic beverages, no coffee, no eggs, no mayonaise, no spices, no ice cream, no bread, no soda pop, no mixes, no salad dressings.... As for learning to cook, that is a great idea, but ... I don't have the time, I don't have the equipment, I don't have the teacher. I know how to make some dishes rather well, but I ordinarily wouldn't ask anyone else to try to eat the things I make. Nor do I have the palate to appreciate the kinds of dishes shown on cooking shows. In the end, the effort required doesn't seem to be worth it. |
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Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it. Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I am very sorry. I wish it were otherwise. -- The Day The Earth Stood Still, screenplay by Edmund H. North "Don't you get me wrong. I only want to know." -- Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar, lyrics by Tim Rice |
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7th March 2005, 12:34 AM | #39 |
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If I may, allow me to bring some perspective here.
Maher does not have a point, at least the way he is interpreting the BS that has come his way. First let me address the Pasteur recanted on his deathbed nonsense. Look closely at the link Dr Adequate kindly hunted up for us. While you ponder how stupid the concept even is, that we should ignore someone's entire scientific contribution because he supposedly made some statement at the end of his life dismissing the contribution, take a look at this quote from the link.
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Try also the link from the link about The Lost History of Medicine which supposedly supports this bizarre fantasy someone cooked up and others have dined on. The second part of Maher's point is something to the effect that all corporations are evil, all drug companies are evil and so on. The truth is in there but Maher's version is too distorted to have much merit. I am about as anti-corporation as one can be without leaving the material world. And, that's actually my point. We all enjoy the benefits along with the costs of the stuff those 'evil' corporations do. There is a balance. Yes, corporations have disincentives to do the right thing because they are set up to be beholden to the bottom line. But corporations do not function in a vacuum. People as consumers and as influencers of government regulations act as modifiers to those corporate actions. We need to be diligent and I do think people are way too complacent, but we aren't exactly sheep here. So there is crappy food out there, and there are pollutants in the water, and so on. But, we are also living longer than ever, we can cure many cancers, vaccines have eliminated many common causes of early childhood deaths and so on. So Maher doesn't have a point and neither do other folks who seem to see everything in black and white. Separate issue: As to the eating healthy, if you are in the US might I recommend a trip south of the border to re-assess how good we actually have it here. If there is Alar on my apple I can deal with that. After all, it is a wonderful big red juicy apple and I can have one any time of the year. I don't eat at McDs, ever. And if I do eat at Jack in the Box, I only get something with an obvious chicken slice in it, nothing ground. I don't eat there often since I prefer to pay more for the meat they claim was raised without hormones and antibiotics. So in other words, it's a trade off. I am not going to add harmful stress to my body by fearing all contact with every toxin known to man. Eat the best you can, then quit worrying about it. There will be extra cancers and I do not advocate never speaking up to keep our food and environment healthy, in fact, I hope everyone notices and speaks up. At the same time we need perspective. There is a lot of good in all that bad. |
7th March 2005, 12:36 AM | #40 |
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