Suggestions and discussions.

Mycroft · 17th March 2005, 08:49 AM

So far in the slush pile of things to consider we have five entries:

"On Bullsh*t" by Harry Frankfurt, suggested by Webfusion
"Flyboys" by James Bradley, suggested by Kodiac
"Blink"[/i] and [/i]"Tipping point"[/i] by Malcolm Gladwell, suggested by IllegalArgument, and
[i]"Inside the Asylum" by Jed Babbin, suggested by Kodiak.

This is the time and place to add to this list. Nobody should feel pressured as there is plenty of time before another selection is chosen since we already have The Media Monopoly in queue, but I wanted to put the list up so as to get people thinking of influential books they have read or books of interest they come across.

BPSCG · 17th March 2005, 12:02 PM

Might be nice if some of the radical lefties around here (y'all know who you are...) would recommend something.

aerocontrols · 17th March 2005, 12:47 PM

Hardball by Chris Matthews

varwoche · 17th March 2005, 04:34 PM

Imperial Hubris

Mycroft · 17th March 2005, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by varwoche
Imperial Hubris

Alright, both Hardball and Imperial Hubris added to the list.

Matabiri · 18th March 2005, 08:06 AM

Collapse, by Jared Diamond.

CBL4 · 18th March 2005, 12:25 PM

I do not if we should avoid older books but some that might be interesting are:
Guns, Germs and Steel by Diamond
The Tipping Point by Gladwell
Moral Animal by Robert Wright (This might be more technical than we want but it is an interesting book)
Crime and Punishment in America by Elliott Currie
Blank Slate by Steven Pinker (actually this is new)

CBL

Cleopatra · 18th March 2005, 01:24 PM

The only thing I wish to recomend -- IF IT'S POSSIBLE-- to give to us that live in South Europe some time to trace the books. I mean that I can't go tomorrow to the bookstore and find every book that you will decide, maybe I will but I doubt so I need a day to ask a friend to go buy the book and fedex it to me so I need at least 5 days.

All I want to say is that it would be useful to plan in advance.

Thanks!!

punchdrunk · 21st March 2005, 11:03 AM

I would suggest moving "Imperial Hubris" up the list. I think it would make for good discussion to contrast against "The Case for Democracy".

Mycroft · 21st March 2005, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cleopatra
The only thing I wish to recomend -- IF IT'S POSSIBLE-- to give to us that live in South Europe some time to trace the books. I mean that I can't go tomorrow to the bookstore and find every book that you will decide, maybe I will but I doubt so I need a day to ask a friend to go buy the book and fedex it to me so I need at least 5 days.

All I want to say is that it would be useful to plan in advance.

Thanks!!

Cleo, Powell's Bookstore ships internationally and is famous for being able to locate any book quickly new or used. They may be a valuable resource for you in keeping up. As it is Iâ€™m sure we can do this so we have a complete month to acquire our next selection, and I think that will give you time to get the book.

Roadtoad · 28th March 2005, 07:04 PM

How about Stephen Ambrose's To America.

Cain · 30th March 2005, 02:17 PM

Well, I will soon begin _Cyborg Citizen: Why Human Societies Must Respond to the Redesigned Human Future_ by James Hughes. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846

It's a progressive/liberal/democratic take on the doctrine/movement of transhumanism.

I won't mind discussing other books on transhumanism that are on my "to do" list:

_Enough_ by Bill McKibben (liberal environmentalist against transhumanism.)

_Our Posthuman Future_ by Francis Fukuyama (Conservative political scientist inveighing against biotechnology.)

_Cyborg Citizen_ by Chris Gray (Anarcho-socialist in favor of biotech)

_Redesigning Humans_ by Gregory Stock (I've actually already read this one. It's sort of libertarianish but leaves questions of social justice, ethics, and politics aside in order to explain that our Promethean desire to become more than what we are, along with effective markets and technology, will inevitably alter humanity as we know it.)

A nice overview on Transhumanism can be found here.

Some aspects of this stuff, especially when it comes to cryogenics and nanotechnology, sounds a bit kooky. But I would be interested in discussing these matters with the people on this board who are drawn to issues where science challenges our common moral beliefs (bioethics, basically).

RandFan · 31st March 2005, 12:16 AM

If there is no time limit then I would love to discuss Upton Sinclair's the Jungle. A personal favorite of mine, a number of my more conservative friends claim that it is more a work of fiction and propaganda.

Mycroft · 3rd April 2005, 11:01 PM

RandFan, I don't see any reason why older books can't be added to the list. I was even hoping Cleo would suggest something by Straus that would help us understand his input on modern political thought.

Okay, the new list is....

"Tipping point" by Malcolm Gladwell, IllegalArgument, CBL
"Inside the Asylum" by Jed Babbin, suggested by Kodiak.
The Media Monopoly Ben H. Bagdikian crimresearch
Hardball by Chris Matthews aerocontrols
Imperial Hubris by Michael Scheuer Varwache
Collapse, by Jared Diamond. Matabiri
Guns, Germs and Steel by Diamond CBL
Moral Animal by Robert Wright CBL
Crime and Punishment in America by Elliott Currie CBL
Blank Slate by Steven Pinker CBL
To America. by Stephen Ambrose Roadtoad
The Jungle by Upton Sinclair RandFan

I'm striking "On B*llsh*t" and "Flyboys" for not really being political in nature. Also struck is "Blink", but I'm leaving in "Tipping Point" as it was suggested twice and looks interesting, even if not so political.

Previously I stated that "Media Monopoly" would be next in line, and I think I'll stay with that. After that it's looking like it will probably be "Imperial Hubris", not only because it was suggested twice, but once as a contrast to "The Case For Democracy".

However, that's not finalized yet. I'm looking for input. If someone feels differently, I'd love to hear why. Also, input on the books already on the list is also appreciated. I plan to look up reviews, but I'd appreciate hearing opinions.

CBL4 · 8th April 2005, 03:05 PM

I think the book for May is supposed to be The New Media Monopoly by Ben H. Bagdikian.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books

I assume this is a vastly different book for The Media Monopoly also by Bagdikian which was originally published in 1983. Is this correct? I am asking because my library has the 6th edition of the old one but not the new one.

CBL

Mycroft · 9th April 2005, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CBL4
I think the book for May is supposed to be The New Media Monopoly by Ben H. Bagdikian.

Wow, I didn't notice it until you brought it up.

Checking out Amazon, it looks as though this book has been updated every few years from 1986 until 2000, and then the new edition was printed in 2004.

I'm gonna guess all these books are similar in that they all show how our news media are owned by a small number of corporations, and that the newer editions are pretty much the same except they show how the trend continues.

With that in mind, I'm gonna guess "The New Media Monopoly" would be the preferred edition to get, but if for whatever reason someone finds it hard to get that one, then any of the other editions will expose them to the key ideas so that they may be intellegently discussed.

Quote:

Originally posted by CBL4
I assume this is a vastly different book for The Media Monopoly also by Bagdikian which was originally published in 1983. Is this correct? I am asking because my library has the 6th edition of the old one but not the new one.

My library has an exchange program with other libraries where you can request they borrow materials for you. You might check into that.

Cain · 15th April 2005, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mycroft
RandFan, I don't see any reason why older books can't be added to the list. I was even hoping Cleo would suggest something by Straus that would help us understand his input on modern political thought.

Okay, the new list is....

"Tipping point" by Malcolm Gladwell, IllegalArgument, CBL
"Inside the Asylum" by Jed Babbin, suggested by Kodiak.
The Media Monopoly Ben H. Bagdikian crimresearch
Hardball by Chris Matthews aerocontrols
Imperial Hubris by Michael Scheuer Varwache
Collapse, by Jared Diamond. Matabiri
Guns, Germs and Steel by Diamond CBL
Moral Animal by Robert Wright CBL
Crime and Punishment in America by Elliott Currie CBL
Blank Slate by Steven Pinker CBL
To America. by Stephen Ambrose Roadtoad
The Jungle by Upton Sinclair RandFan

I'm striking "On B*llsh*t" and "Flyboys" for not really being political in nature. Also struck is "Blink", but I'm leaving in "Tipping Point" as it was suggested twice and looks interesting, even if not so political.

Previously I stated that "Media Monopoly" would be next in line, and I think I'll stay with that. After that it's looking like it will probably be "Imperial Hubris", not only because it was suggested twice, but once as a contrast to "The Case For Democracy".

However, that's not finalized yet. I'm looking for input. If someone feels differently, I'd love to hear why. Also, input on the books already on the list is also appreciated. I plan to look up reviews, but I'd appreciate hearing opinions.

Dude, what's up with this? I was pissed off after I saw this post (a week or two ago), but after getting into _Cyborg Citizen_ I realize that it's the perfect book for this bloody board. I mean, it even won a recommendation from the editors of _Scientific American_ (for whatever that's worth). This has science, philosophy, politics, technology, and religion.

Mycroft · 15th April 2005, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cain
Dude, what's up with this? I was pissed off after I saw this post (a week or two ago), but after getting into _Cyborg Citizen_ I realize that it's the perfect book for this bloody board. I mean, it even won a recommendation from the editors of _Scientific American_ (for whatever that's worth). This has science, philosophy, politics, technology, and religion.

I'm open to being sold. The book looks interesting, I just have doubts. How much politics can there really be to medical prosthetics? Is this something we would really prefer to discuss over understanding the Middle East or how the media shapes our views?

I'll keep an open mind.

At the same time, have you read "The Case for Democracy" or "The Media Monopoly" yet?

Cain · 18th April 2005, 08:16 AM

A couple of days ago I composed a long reply, but canned it.

I read _Media Monopoly_ more than several years ago. The thesis is so well-known that the book didn't have the same impact on me as it probably did others in the early 80s.

Mycroft · 18th April 2005, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cain
A couple of days ago I composed a long reply, but canned it.

I read _Media Monopoly_ more than several years ago. The thesis is so well-known that the book didn't have the same impact on me as it probably did others in the early 80s.

I assume you remember enough of it to contribute to a discussion. How about "The Case for Democracy," were you able to read that?

Baker · 25th April 2005, 10:17 AM

Well no has mentioned Bernard Goldberg's book Bias yet.

CBL4 · 2nd May 2005, 10:48 AM

When are we going to start discussing The New Media Monopoly?

I have started reading it and it makes an interesting observation. But unfortunately, through the first 4 chapters, it just dabbles in boring tangents without informing me of anything except that the author is a leftist who cannot write well.

Does it get any better?

CBL

Mycroft · 2nd May 2005, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CBL4
When are we going to start discussing The New Media Monopoly?

I have started reading it and it makes an interesting observation. But unfortunately, through the first 4 chapters, it just dabbles in boring tangents without informing me of anything except that the author is a leftist who cannot write well.

Does it get any better?

CBL

You and I are about the same distance into it, and out observations are similar. I've asked Darat to create a new sub-forum, we can bwegin discussing anytime.

punchdrunk · 2nd May 2005, 01:59 PM

I'm having trouble getting a copy of The New Media Monopoly from the library but hope to join the discussion soon thereafter.

shanek · 2nd May 2005, 04:27 PM

As I'm a big fan of, whenever possible, recommending books people can get online for free, I'm going to start off by recommending Henry Hazlitt's Economics in One Lesson:

http://www.fee.org/~web/Economics%20...e%20Lesson.pdf

Yes, it's an older tome, but I swear when you read it he could easily be talking about today. There are some specific examples that date it, but the concepts still apply. Some of it was downright prophetic.

varwoche · 2nd May 2005, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mycroft
After that it's looking like it will probably be "Imperial Hubris", not only because it was suggested twice, but once as a contrast to "The Case For Democracy".

I look forward to this. No matter one's outlook, I can't imagine a more important and informative book on the topic. (And it doesn't hurt that it's a fascinating read.)

Mycroft · 24th May 2005, 09:22 AM

Okay, June's book will be Imperial Hubris by Michael Scheuer, and Baker's and Shanek's suggestions will both be added to the list.

Luke T. · 6th June 2005, 07:59 AM

There is only one political science book I would foist on everyone, and some of you probably know what it is, since I mention it often here.

Democracy in America by Alexis de Tocqueville

Quote:

America is the only country in which it has been possible to witness the natural and tranquil growth of society, and where the influence exercised on the future condition of states by their origin is clearly distinguishable.

Quote:

The settlers who established themselves on the shores of New England all belonged to the more independent classes of their native country. Their union on the soil of America at once presented the singular phenomenon of a society containing neither lords nor common people, and we may almost say neither rich nor poor. These men possessed, in proportion to their number, a greater mass of intelligence than is to be found in any European nation of our own time. All, perhaps without a single exception, had received a good education, and many of them were known in Europe for their talents and their acquirements. The other colonies had been founded by adventurers without families; the immigrants of New England brought with them the best elements of order and morality; they landed on the desert coast accompanied by their wives and children. But what especially distinguished them from all others was the aim of their undertaking. They had not been obliged by necessity to leave their country; the social position they abandoned was one to be regretted, and their means of subsistence were certain. Nor did they cross the Atlantic to improve their situation or to increase their wealth; it was a purely intellectual craving that called them from the comforts of their former homes; and in facing the inevitable sufferings of exile their object was the triumph of an idea.

And you can read it, free, online here.

CBL4 · 22nd June 2005, 04:13 PM

Do we have our next book chosen?

I personally would prefer "Courtroom 302" because it is next on my personal reading list but I am probably alone in that.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846

My two other suggestions are
"Tipping Point" by Gladwell.
"On Bullsh*t" by Harry Frankfurt

I am almost done with Guns, Germs and Steel" and I unnominate it even though it is an extraorinarily good book. I do not think it is appropriate for a book club because there is not that much to discuss. Diamond does such a great job that I do not think anyone without specific knowledge can dispute it.

Because it won a Pulitzer Prize I looked at the last 3 prize winners in General Non-Fiction.
2005 - Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001â€ by Steve Coll
2004 - "Gulag: A History" by Anne Applebaum
2003 - "A Problem from Hell" : America and the Age of Genocide
by Samantha Power

All sound interesting to me.

CBL

Mycroft · 22nd June 2005, 04:28 PM

I'm glad you brought it up, I was thinking of "Tipping Point", but I'm willing to consider other suggestions.

I was also thinking of letting a month slide to give people (myself included) a chance to catch up. Imperial Hubris hasn't generated any conversation to speak of, and I think that's probably because not everyone has read it yet. Myself included.

epepke · 29th June 2005, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CBL4
I do not if we should avoid older books but some that might be interesting are:
Guns, Germs and Steel by Diamond

I second this, mostly because I actually have a copy.

Kiless · 23rd July 2005, 07:53 AM

Freakonomics, A Rogue Economist Explores the Hidden Side to Everything ?

Orwell · 5th November 2005, 12:53 PM

A Short History of Financial Euphoria, by John Kenneth Galbraith

CBL4 · 7th November 2005, 11:41 AM

Orwell,

I do hope you join the discussions. Most of the people who participate share the same political views. I (and I think the others people) would welcome people to debate.

CBL

Vagabond · 19th January 2006, 12:20 AM

Does America Need a Foreign Policy by Henry Kissinger

This book was written just before 911 and is almost psychic in it's perceptions of things. Even he couldn't predict how things would change however tho.

CapelDodger · 25th January 2006, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by Orwell

A Short History of Financial Euphoria, by John Kenneth Galbraith

Money : Whence it came, where it went by same author. (No moment spent reading Galbraith is wasted.)

Salonika : City of Ghosts by Mark Mazower. Not a book about politics, a book about a place, which is is where politics happens.

Mycroft · 31st January 2006, 10:41 AM

New book added, [i]"The Persian Puzzle" by Kenneth Pollack

Almo · 19th June 2006, 02:30 PM

Guns Germs and Steel was very interesting. I'm part way through Collapse right now, and it is most excellent. Having just read Beyond Oil, I'm now reading The Bottomless Well.

I'd like to see Collapse as the one.

17th March 2005, 08:49 AM	#1
Mycroft High Priest of Ed Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 12,619	Suggestions and discussions. So far in the slush pile of things to consider we have five entries: "On Bullsht"* by Harry Frankfurt, suggested by Webfusion "Flyboys" by James Bradley, suggested by Kodiac "Blink"[/i] and [/i]"Tipping point"[/i] by Malcolm Gladwell, suggested by IllegalArgument, and [i]"Inside the Asylum" by Jed Babbin, suggested by Kodiak. This is the time and place to add to this list. Nobody should feel pressured as there is plenty of time before another selection is chosen since we already have The Media Monopoly in queue, but I wanted to put the list up so as to get people thinking of influential books they have read or books of interest they come across.
	__________________ Surely Israel is the party to blame? -a_unique_person Palestinian Refugees

17th March 2005, 12:02 PM	#2
BPSCG Cannibal Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Looting Fafner's Cave Posts: 17,567	Might be nice if some of the radical lefties around here (y'all know who you are...) would recommend something.
	__________________ Philanthropist (n.) - Someone who spends his own money to advance his version of Utopia. Socialist (n.) - Someone who spends your money to advance his version of Utopia.

17th March 2005, 12:47 PM	#3
aerocontrols Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,445	Hardball by Chris Matthews
	__________________ Misunderestimated in 2000. Unredefeated in 2004. My dog does his tricks. My roomate's dog tries to escape the kitchen. We call you to be a people of manners, principles, honour, and purity; to reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling's, and trading with interest. Source

17th March 2005, 04:34 PM	#4
varwoche Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 5,063	Imperial Hubris
	__________________ GW Evidence

17th March 2005, 07:16 PM	#5
Mycroft High Priest of Ed Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 12,619	Quote: Originally posted by varwoche Imperial Hubris Alright, both Hardball and Imperial Hubris added to the list.
	__________________ Surely Israel is the party to blame? -a_unique_person Palestinian Refugees

18th March 2005, 08:06 AM	#6
Matabiri Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,734	Collapse, by Jared Diamond.
	__________________ "That's the kind of thing you can't look up on the internet, because it's the kind of thing you get taught at school." - Ashley Pomeroy

18th March 2005, 12:25 PM	#7
CBL4 Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,350	I do not if we should avoid older books but some that might be interesting are: Guns, Germs and Steel by Diamond The Tipping Point by Gladwell Moral Animal by Robert Wright (This might be more technical than we want but it is an interesting book) Crime and Punishment in America by Elliott Currie Blank Slate by Steven Pinker (actually this is new) CBL
CBL4 Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,350

18th March 2005, 01:24 PM	#8
Cleopatra Diva Caissa Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Athens-Greece Posts: 9,275	The only thing I wish to recomend -- IF IT'S POSSIBLE-- to give to us that live in South Europe some time to trace the books. I mean that I can't go tomorrow to the bookstore and find every book that you will decide, maybe I will but I doubt so I need a day to ask a friend to go buy the book and fedex it to me so I need at least 5 days. All I want to say is that it would be useful to plan in advance. Thanks!!
	__________________ Whiskey is for drinking. Water is for fighting.~ Mark Twain.

21st March 2005, 11:03 AM	#9
punchdrunk Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,003	I would suggest moving "Imperial Hubris" up the list. I think it would make for good discussion to contrast against "The Case for Democracy".
	__________________ Freedom is self-responsibility; nothing less, nothing more. Finally, proof!: "Republicans = evil fundie criminal warmonger vampires" - (BPSCG, 5/11/06)

21st March 2005, 12:05 PM	#10
Mycroft High Priest of Ed Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 12,619	Quote: Originally posted by Cleopatra The only thing I wish to recomend -- IF IT'S POSSIBLE-- to give to us that live in South Europe some time to trace the books. I mean that I can't go tomorrow to the bookstore and find every book that you will decide, maybe I will but I doubt so I need a day to ask a friend to go buy the book and fedex it to me so I need at least 5 days. All I want to say is that it would be useful to plan in advance. Thanks!! Cleo, Powell's Bookstore ships internationally and is famous for being able to locate any book quickly new or used. They may be a valuable resource for you in keeping up. As it is Iâ€™m sure we can do this so we have a complete month to acquire our next selection, and I think that will give you time to get the book.
	__________________ Surely Israel is the party to blame? -a_unique_person Palestinian Refugees

28th March 2005, 07:04 PM	#11
Roadtoad Bufo Caminus Inedibilis Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Looking for a decent Taco... Posts: 11,857	How about Stephen Ambrose's To America.
	__________________ "I freed thousands of slaves. I could have freed thousands more, if they had known they were slaves." Harriet Tubman "I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong." Frederick Douglass "Power corrupts. Absolute power... is pretty cool, actually." BPSCG My blog.

30th March 2005, 02:17 PM	#12
Cain Contrarian Join Date: May 2002 Location: S. California Posts: 3,824	Well, I will soon begin _Cyborg Citizen: Why Human Societies Must Respond to the Redesigned Human Future_ by James Hughes. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846 It's a progressive/liberal/democratic take on the doctrine/movement of transhumanism. I won't mind discussing other books on transhumanism that are on my "to do" list: _Enough_ by Bill McKibben (liberal environmentalist against transhumanism.) _Our Posthuman Future_ by Francis Fukuyama (Conservative political scientist inveighing against biotechnology.) _Cyborg Citizen_ by Chris Gray (Anarcho-socialist in favor of biotech) _Redesigning Humans_ by Gregory Stock (I've actually already read this one. It's sort of libertarianish but leaves questions of social justice, ethics, and politics aside in order to explain that our Promethean desire to become more than what we are, along with effective markets and technology, will inevitably alter humanity as we know it.) A nice overview on Transhumanism can be found here. Some aspects of this stuff, especially when it comes to cryogenics and nanotechnology, sounds a bit kooky. But I would be interested in discussing these matters with the people on this board who are drawn to issues where science challenges our common moral beliefs (bioethics, basically).
	__________________ Well, well, well. If it ain't the serious, elusive Leroy Green. I've been waitin' a long time for this, Leroy. I am sick of hearin' these buuuuullshit Superman stories about the "wassah" legendary Bruce Leroy catchin' bullets with his teeth. Catches bullets with his teeth?! Niggah pleeze.

31st March 2005, 12:16 AM	#13
RandFan Mormon Atheist Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern California Posts: 31,120	If there is no time limit then I would love to discuss Upton Sinclair's the Jungle. A personal favorite of mine, a number of my more conservative friends claim that it is more a work of fiction and propaganda.
	__________________ www.StopSylvia.com. Nothing wrong with God removing people from this world and bringing them to the next. --hamelekim

3rd April 2005, 11:01 PM	#14
Mycroft High Priest of Ed Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 12,619	RandFan, I don't see any reason why older books can't be added to the list. I was even hoping Cleo would suggest something by Straus that would help us understand his input on modern political thought. Okay, the new list is.... "Tipping point" by Malcolm Gladwell, IllegalArgument, CBL "Inside the Asylum" by Jed Babbin, suggested by Kodiak. The Media Monopoly Ben H. Bagdikian crimresearch Hardball by Chris Matthews aerocontrols Imperial Hubris by Michael Scheuer Varwache Collapse, by Jared Diamond. Matabiri Guns, Germs and Steel by Diamond CBL Moral Animal by Robert Wright CBL Crime and Punishment in America by Elliott Currie CBL Blank Slate by Steven Pinker CBL To America. by Stephen Ambrose Roadtoad The Jungle by Upton Sinclair RandFan I'm striking "On Bllsht" and "Flyboys" for not really being political in nature. Also struck is "Blink", but I'm leaving in "Tipping Point" as it was suggested twice and looks interesting, even if not so political. Previously I stated that "Media Monopoly" would be next in line, and I think I'll stay with that. After that it's looking like it will probably be "Imperial Hubris", not only because it was suggested twice, but once as a contrast to "The Case For Democracy". However, that's not finalized yet. I'm looking for input. If someone feels differently, I'd love to hear why. Also, input on the books already on the list is also appreciated. I plan to look up reviews, but I'd appreciate hearing opinions.
	__________________ Surely Israel is the party to blame? -a_unique_person Palestinian Refugees

8th April 2005, 03:05 PM	#15
CBL4 Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,350	I think the book for May is supposed to be The New Media Monopoly by Ben H. Bagdikian. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books I assume this is a vastly different book for The Media Monopoly also by Bagdikian which was originally published in 1983. Is this correct? I am asking because my library has the 6th edition of the old one but not the new one. CBL
CBL4 Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,350

9th April 2005, 06:57 PM	#16
Mycroft High Priest of Ed Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 12,619	Quote: Originally posted by CBL4 I think the book for May is supposed to be The New Media Monopoly by Ben H. Bagdikian. Wow, I didn't notice it until you brought it up. Checking out Amazon, it looks as though this book has been updated every few years from 1986 until 2000, and then the new edition was printed in 2004. I'm gonna guess all these books are similar in that they all show how our news media are owned by a small number of corporations, and that the newer editions are pretty much the same except they show how the trend continues. With that in mind, I'm gonna guess "The New Media Monopoly" would be the preferred edition to get, but if for whatever reason someone finds it hard to get that one, then any of the other editions will expose them to the key ideas so that they may be intellegently discussed. Quote: Originally posted by CBL4 I assume this is a vastly different book for The Media Monopoly also by Bagdikian which was originally published in 1983. Is this correct? I am asking because my library has the 6th edition of the old one but not the new one. My library has an exchange program with other libraries where you can request they borrow materials for you. You might check into that.
	__________________ Surely Israel is the party to blame? -a_unique_person Palestinian Refugees

15th April 2005, 12:23 AM	#17
Cain Contrarian Join Date: May 2002 Location: S. California Posts: 3,824	Quote: Originally posted by Mycroft RandFan, I don't see any reason why older books can't be added to the list. I was even hoping Cleo would suggest something by Straus that would help us understand his input on modern political thought. Okay, the new list is.... "Tipping point" by Malcolm Gladwell, IllegalArgument, CBL "Inside the Asylum" by Jed Babbin, suggested by Kodiak. The Media Monopoly Ben H. Bagdikian crimresearch Hardball by Chris Matthews aerocontrols Imperial Hubris by Michael Scheuer Varwache Collapse, by Jared Diamond. Matabiri Guns, Germs and Steel by Diamond CBL Moral Animal by Robert Wright CBL Crime and Punishment in America by Elliott Currie CBL Blank Slate by Steven Pinker CBL To America. by Stephen Ambrose Roadtoad The Jungle by Upton Sinclair RandFan I'm striking "On Bllsht" and "Flyboys" for not really being political in nature. Also struck is "Blink", but I'm leaving in "Tipping Point" as it was suggested twice and looks interesting, even if not so political. Previously I stated that "Media Monopoly" would be next in line, and I think I'll stay with that. After that it's looking like it will probably be "Imperial Hubris", not only because it was suggested twice, but once as a contrast to "The Case For Democracy". However, that's not finalized yet. I'm looking for input. If someone feels differently, I'd love to hear why. Also, input on the books already on the list is also appreciated. I plan to look up reviews, but I'd appreciate hearing opinions. Dude, what's up with this? I was pissed off after I saw this post (a week or two ago), but after getting into _Cyborg Citizen_ I realize that it's the perfect book for this bloody board. I mean, it even won a recommendation from the editors of _Scientific American_ (for whatever that's worth). This has science, philosophy, politics, technology, and religion.
	__________________ Well, well, well. If it ain't the serious, elusive Leroy Green. I've been waitin' a long time for this, Leroy. I am sick of hearin' these buuuuullshit Superman stories about the "wassah" legendary Bruce Leroy catchin' bullets with his teeth. Catches bullets with his teeth?! Niggah pleeze.

15th April 2005, 05:28 PM	#18
Mycroft High Priest of Ed Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 12,619	Quote: Originally posted by Cain Dude, what's up with this? I was pissed off after I saw this post (a week or two ago), but after getting into _Cyborg Citizen_ I realize that it's the perfect book for this bloody board. I mean, it even won a recommendation from the editors of _Scientific American_ (for whatever that's worth). This has science, philosophy, politics, technology, and religion. I'm open to being sold. The book looks interesting, I just have doubts. How much politics can there really be to medical prosthetics? Is this something we would really prefer to discuss over understanding the Middle East or how the media shapes our views? I'll keep an open mind. At the same time, have you read "The Case for Democracy" or "The Media Monopoly" yet?
	__________________ Surely Israel is the party to blame? -a_unique_person Palestinian Refugees

18th April 2005, 08:16 AM	#19
Cain Contrarian Join Date: May 2002 Location: S. California Posts: 3,824	A couple of days ago I composed a long reply, but canned it. I read _Media Monopoly_ more than several years ago. The thesis is so well-known that the book didn't have the same impact on me as it probably did others in the early 80s.
	__________________ Well, well, well. If it ain't the serious, elusive Leroy Green. I've been waitin' a long time for this, Leroy. I am sick of hearin' these buuuuullshit Superman stories about the "wassah" legendary Bruce Leroy catchin' bullets with his teeth. Catches bullets with his teeth?! Niggah pleeze.

18th April 2005, 08:22 AM	#20
Mycroft High Priest of Ed Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 12,619	Quote: Originally posted by Cain A couple of days ago I composed a long reply, but canned it. I read _Media Monopoly_ more than several years ago. The thesis is so well-known that the book didn't have the same impact on me as it probably did others in the early 80s. I assume you remember enough of it to contribute to a discussion. How about "The Case for Democracy," were you able to read that?
	__________________ Surely Israel is the party to blame? -a_unique_person Palestinian Refugees

25th April 2005, 10:17 AM	#21
Baker Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,121	Well no has mentioned Bernard Goldberg's book Bias yet.
Baker Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,121

2nd May 2005, 10:48 AM	#22
CBL4 Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,350	When are we going to start discussing The New Media Monopoly? I have started reading it and it makes an interesting observation. But unfortunately, through the first 4 chapters, it just dabbles in boring tangents without informing me of anything except that the author is a leftist who cannot write well. Does it get any better? CBL
CBL4 Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,350

2nd May 2005, 10:59 AM	#23
Mycroft High Priest of Ed Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 12,619	Quote: Originally posted by CBL4 When are we going to start discussing The New Media Monopoly? I have started reading it and it makes an interesting observation. But unfortunately, through the first 4 chapters, it just dabbles in boring tangents without informing me of anything except that the author is a leftist who cannot write well. Does it get any better? CBL You and I are about the same distance into it, and out observations are similar. I've asked Darat to create a new sub-forum, we can bwegin discussing anytime.
	__________________ Surely Israel is the party to blame? -a_unique_person Palestinian Refugees

2nd May 2005, 01:59 PM	#24
punchdrunk Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,003	I'm having trouble getting a copy of The New Media Monopoly from the library but hope to join the discussion soon thereafter.
	__________________ Freedom is self-responsibility; nothing less, nothing more. Finally, proof!: "Republicans = evil fundie criminal warmonger vampires" - (BPSCG, 5/11/06)

2nd May 2005, 04:27 PM	#25
shanek by Charles M. Schulz Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 15,990	As I'm a big fan of, whenever possible, recommending books people can get online for free, I'm going to start off by recommending Henry Hazlitt's Economics in One Lesson: http://www.fee.org/~web/Economics%20...e%20Lesson.pdf Yes, it's an older tome, but I swear when you read it he could easily be talking about today. There are some specific examples that date it, but the concepts still apply. Some of it was downright prophetic.
	__________________ "James Randi is awesome!" —Ian Bernard, primary host of Free Talk Live "It really does take people like Penn & Teller or James Randi to be able to see through these deceptions, and so those are perhaps the people we should be paying the most attention to." —Harry Browne, 4/10/2004 I know there is a lesson to be learned here somewhere, but I don't know what it is.

2nd May 2005, 11:56 PM	#26
varwoche Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 5,063	Quote: Originally posted by Mycroft After that it's looking like it will probably be "Imperial Hubris", not only because it was suggested twice, but once as a contrast to "The Case For Democracy". I look forward to this. No matter one's outlook, I can't imagine a more important and informative book on the topic. (And it doesn't hurt that it's a fascinating read.)
	__________________ GW Evidence

24th May 2005, 09:22 AM	#27
Mycroft High Priest of Ed Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 12,619	Okay, June's book will be Imperial Hubris by Michael Scheuer, and Baker's and Shanek's suggestions will both be added to the list.
	__________________ Surely Israel is the party to blame? -a_unique_person Palestinian Refugees

6th June 2005, 07:59 AM	#28
Luke T. Guest Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 14,759	There is only one political science book I would foist on everyone, and some of you probably know what it is, since I mention it often here. Democracy in America by Alexis de Tocqueville Quote: America is the only country in which it has been possible to witness the natural and tranquil growth of society, and where the influence exercised on the future condition of states by their origin is clearly distinguishable. Quote: The settlers who established themselves on the shores of New England all belonged to the more independent classes of their native country. Their union on the soil of America at once presented the singular phenomenon of a society containing neither lords nor common people, and we may almost say neither rich nor poor. These men possessed, in proportion to their number, a greater mass of intelligence than is to be found in any European nation of our own time. All, perhaps without a single exception, had received a good education, and many of them were known in Europe for their talents and their acquirements. The other colonies had been founded by adventurers without families; the immigrants of New England brought with them the best elements of order and morality; they landed on the desert coast accompanied by their wives and children. But what especially distinguished them from all others was the aim of their undertaking. They had not been obliged by necessity to leave their country; the social position they abandoned was one to be regretted, and their means of subsistence were certain. Nor did they cross the Atlantic to improve their situation or to increase their wealth; it was a purely intellectual craving that called them from the comforts of their former homes; and in facing the inevitable sufferings of exile their object was the triumph of an idea. And you can read it, free, online here.
Luke T. Guest Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 14,759

22nd June 2005, 04:13 PM	#29
CBL4 Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,350	Do we have our next book chosen? I personally would prefer "Courtroom 302" because it is next on my personal reading list but I am probably alone in that. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846 My two other suggestions are "Tipping Point" by Gladwell. "On Bullsh*t" by Harry Frankfurt I am almost done with Guns, Germs and Steel" and I unnominate it even though it is an extraorinarily good book. I do not think it is appropriate for a book club because there is not that much to discuss. Diamond does such a great job that I do not think anyone without specific knowledge can dispute it. Because it won a Pulitzer Prize I looked at the last 3 prize winners in General Non-Fiction. 2005 - Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001â€ by Steve Coll 2004 - "Gulag: A History" by Anne Applebaum 2003 - "A Problem from Hell" : America and the Age of Genocide by Samantha Power All sound interesting to me. CBL
CBL4 Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,350

22nd June 2005, 04:28 PM	#30
Mycroft High Priest of Ed Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 12,619	I'm glad you brought it up, I was thinking of "Tipping Point", but I'm willing to consider other suggestions. I was also thinking of letting a month slide to give people (myself included) a chance to catch up. Imperial Hubris hasn't generated any conversation to speak of, and I think that's probably because not everyone has read it yet. Myself included.
	__________________ Surely Israel is the party to blame? -a_unique_person Palestinian Refugees

29th June 2005, 06:17 PM	#31
epepke Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 6,136	Quote: Originally posted by CBL4 I do not if we should avoid older books but some that might be interesting are: Guns, Germs and Steel by Diamond I second this, mostly because I actually have a copy.
epepke Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 6,136	__________________ "It probably came from a sticky dark planet far, far away." - Godzilla versus Hedora

23rd July 2005, 07:53 AM	#32
Kiless Guest Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: DO NOT BOTHER ME Posts: 6,105	Freakonomics, A Rogue Economist Explores the Hidden Side to Everything ?

5th November 2005, 12:53 PM	#33
Orwell Nattering Nabob of Negativism Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,364	A Short History of Financial Euphoria, by John Kenneth Galbraith
	__________________ Charles de Gaulle fut arrêté par des journalistes devant un graffiti disant "mort aux cons". Il commenta: "Vaste programme..."

7th November 2005, 11:41 AM	#34
CBL4 Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,350	Orwell, I do hope you join the discussions. Most of the people who participate share the same political views. I (and I think the others people) would welcome people to debate. CBL
CBL4 Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,350

19th January 2006, 12:20 AM	#35
Vagabond Professor of Human Nature Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: St. Louis Posts: 818	Does America Need a Foreign Policy by Henry Kissinger This book was written just before 911 and is almost psychic in it's perceptions of things. Even he couldn't predict how things would change however tho.