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HarryKeogh · 4th April 2005, 07:11 AM

let me qualify my post by saying this is from the gossip column of tne NY tabloid The Daily News. But it is interesting to note that the son of the leader of the religion that is supposed to help you get in total charge of your life killed himself.

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/sto...p-253621c.html

Quote:

John Travolta and Tom Cruise have forcefully denied allegations that they turned to Scientology to "cure" them of their supposedly gay urges. But critics continue to claim the religion is rife with homophobia.

Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard wrote in his 1950 best seller, "Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health," that gays were "sexual perverts" and "very ill physically."

That apparently went for Hubbard's son, Quentin, who was said to have been confused about his own sexual orientation. "[Ron] thought Quentin was an embarrassment," Laurel Sullivan, Hubbard's former PR officer, told the Los Angeles Times. Quentin killed himself in 1976.

sophia8 · 4th April 2005, 09:58 AM

From Chapter 20 of Barefaced Messiah:

Quote:

'I knew he had homosexual problems,' said Ed Walters, 'but he was a good kid. He was just a young, soft boy, not the ruthless, hard-nosed type. He had wanted to get out of Scientology for some time, but you don't just leave something like Scientology. You quit and then instantly become an enemy. He knew his father violently attacked anyone who betrayed him and he knew that the Guardian's Office would be after him as a traitor. He had grown up in Scientology and would have been tremendously afraid of the world out there, full of wogs and evil people. I guess he just couldn't handle it.'

The Operation Clambake site has a ton of info on all aspects of Hubbard and Scientology ; try searching the forums for posts about Quentin.

Warren · 13th July 2005, 06:27 PM

I have read many anti-scientology sites with claims that LRH said this or that and you can choose to take it at face value, in the same way that you could take at face value what a scientologist tells you. There is a lot of crap out there. I am not a scientologist and pretty skeptical about most things not scientifically proven. However I try to make a point of finding out for myself. Haven struggled reading through Dianetics, I can confirm that LRH does say that homosexuals are sexual perverts and very ill physically. When I tackled a scientologist about this I was told to ensure that I understood the word 'pervert'. Unfortunately I do not go around with a dictionary in my pocket, but even at my low intellectual level (for surely I am inferior to a scientologist!) I would hope my grasp of the english language would be able to tell me that this is not a good thing!
I will continue my studies and see if what is so often reported on both sides of the fence can be verified.

I have a feeling the truth will be somewhere in the middle.

Questioninggeller · 13th July 2005, 07:04 PM

A little off topic, but:

I have a co-worker who used to be a roommate with Hubbard's daughter (Diane?), and he tells of some very strange stuff in the few years after Hubbard died.

TobiasTheViking · 13th July 2005, 07:30 PM

Quote:

# corrupt: corrupt morally or by intemperance or sensuality; "debauch the young people with wine and women"; "Socrates was accused of corrupting young men"; "Do school counselors subvert young children?"; "corrupt the morals"
# twist: practice sophistry; change the meaning of or be vague about in order to mislead or deceive
# a person whose behavior deviates from what is acceptable especially in sexual behavior
# change the inherent purpose or function of something; "Don't abuse the system"; "The director of the factory misused the funds intended for the health care of his workers"

http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Apervert

Warren · 13th July 2005, 07:43 PM

Does this mean that if general society (and by that I mean the ones most effected by LRH's teachings) considers homosexual behaviour to be *acceptable* and not a perversion, that LRH's statement could be considered unacceptable. and vice versa.

I guess thats the argument a scientologist would use to validate the statement.

TobiasTheViking · 13th July 2005, 08:07 PM

If homosexuality(and the sex involved) becomes normal and accepted.. then it is (per definition) no longer perverted.

phildonnia · 14th July 2005, 10:03 AM

IIRC, homosexuality is (or at least was) associated with "Covert Hostility" on the "Emotional Tone Scale". This particular rating was probably the most detested level on said scale, earning such descriptions as "evil".

(Can't find a web reference for this. But just so I don't get sued

, see Minshull, Ruth, "How to Choose your People" (1980) )

HarryKeogh · 14th July 2005, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by phildonnia
IIRC, homosexuality is (or at least was) associated with "Covert Hostility" on the "Emotional Tone Scale". This particular rating was probably the most detested level on said scale, earning such descriptions as "evil". (1980) )

hey, I even remember the cartoon that accompanied "Covert Hostility" on a poster in my old org. It was a grinning smiley face with one hand out to shake your hand and the other hand holding a club behind its back.

roger · 14th July 2005, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Questioninggeller
A little off topic, but:

I have a co-worker who used to be a roommate with Hubbard's daughter (Diane?), and he tells of some very strange stuff in the few years after Hubbard died.

Do tell. Please.

4th April 2005, 07:11 AM	#1
HarryKeogh Catholic School Survivor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 11,342	Scientology and homophobia let me qualify my post by saying this is from the gossip column of tne NY tabloid The Daily News. But it is interesting to note that the son of the leader of the religion that is supposed to help you get in total charge of your life killed himself. http://www.nydailynews.com/front/sto...p-253621c.html Quote: John Travolta and Tom Cruise have forcefully denied allegations that they turned to Scientology to "cure" them of their supposedly gay urges. But critics continue to claim the religion is rife with homophobia. Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard wrote in his 1950 best seller, "Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health," that gays were "sexual perverts" and "very ill physically." That apparently went for Hubbard's son, Quentin, who was said to have been confused about his own sexual orientation. "[Ron] thought Quentin was an embarrassment," Laurel Sullivan, Hubbard's former PR officer, told the Los Angeles Times. Quentin killed himself in 1976.

4th April 2005, 09:58 AM	#2
sophia8 Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In the dark, dark forest.... Posts: 2,289	From Chapter 20 of Barefaced Messiah: Quote: 'I knew he had homosexual problems,' said Ed Walters, 'but he was a good kid. He was just a young, soft boy, not the ruthless, hard-nosed type. He had wanted to get out of Scientology for some time, but you don't just leave something like Scientology. You quit and then instantly become an enemy. He knew his father violently attacked anyone who betrayed him and he knew that the Guardian's Office would be after him as a traitor. He had grown up in Scientology and would have been tremendously afraid of the world out there, full of wogs and evil people. I guess he just couldn't handle it.' The Operation Clambake site has a ton of info on all aspects of Hubbard and Scientology ; try searching the forums for posts about Quentin.
	__________________ "Nature is floods and famines and earthquakes and viruses and little blue-footed booby babies getting their brains pecked out by their stronger siblings! ....Nature doesn't care about me, or about anybody in particular - nature can be terrifying! Why do they even put words like 'natural' on products like shampoo, like it's automatically a good thing? I mean, sulfuric acid is natural!" -Julia Sweeney

13th July 2005, 06:27 PM	#3
Warren New Blood Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 6	Dianetics and homosexuals I have read many anti-scientology sites with claims that LRH said this or that and you can choose to take it at face value, in the same way that you could take at face value what a scientologist tells you. There is a lot of crap out there. I am not a scientologist and pretty skeptical about most things not scientifically proven. However I try to make a point of finding out for myself. Haven struggled reading through Dianetics, I can confirm that LRH does say that homosexuals are sexual perverts and very ill physically. When I tackled a scientologist about this I was told to ensure that I understood the word 'pervert'. Unfortunately I do not go around with a dictionary in my pocket, but even at my low intellectual level (for surely I am inferior to a scientologist!) I would hope my grasp of the english language would be able to tell me that this is not a good thing! I will continue my studies and see if what is so often reported on both sides of the fence can be verified. I have a feeling the truth will be somewhere in the middle.
Warren New Blood Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 6

13th July 2005, 07:30 PM	#5
TobiasTheViking Resident Viking Autist Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: With your mother Posts: 6,923	Quote: # corrupt: corrupt morally or by intemperance or sensuality; "debauch the young people with wine and women"; "Socrates was accused of corrupting young men"; "Do school counselors subvert young children?"; "corrupt the morals" # twist: practice sophistry; change the meaning of or be vague about in order to mislead or deceive # a person whose behavior deviates from what is acceptable especially in sexual behavior # change the inherent purpose or function of something; "Don't abuse the system"; "The director of the factory misused the funds intended for the health care of his workers" http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Apervert
	__________________ He pricked me with his prick that prick - NobbyNobbs Endearingly Obnoxious - Rebecca Watson

13th July 2005, 07:43 PM	#6
Warren New Blood Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 6	Does this mean that if general society (and by that I mean the ones most effected by LRH's teachings) considers homosexual behaviour to be acceptable and not a perversion, that LRH's statement could be considered unacceptable. and vice versa. I guess thats the argument a scientologist would use to validate the statement.
Warren New Blood Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 6

13th July 2005, 07:04 PM	#4
Questioninggeller Illuminator Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 3,037	A little off topic, but: I have a co-worker who used to be a roommate with Hubbard's daughter (Diane?), and he tells of some very strange stuff in the few years after Hubbard died.

13th July 2005, 08:07 PM	#7
TobiasTheViking Resident Viking Autist Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: With your mother Posts: 6,923	If homosexuality(and the sex involved) becomes normal and accepted.. then it is (per definition) no longer perverted.
	__________________ He pricked me with his prick that prick - NobbyNobbs Endearingly Obnoxious - Rebecca Watson

14th July 2005, 10:03 AM	#8
phildonnia Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Sac'to CA Posts: 2,339	IIRC, homosexuality is (or at least was) associated with "Covert Hostility" on the "Emotional Tone Scale". This particular rating was probably the most detested level on said scale, earning such descriptions as "evil". (Can't find a web reference for this. But just so I don't get sued , see Minshull, Ruth, "How to Choose your People" (1980) )

14th July 2005, 10:15 AM	#9
HarryKeogh Catholic School Survivor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 11,342	Quote: Originally posted by phildonnia IIRC, homosexuality is (or at least was) associated with "Covert Hostility" on the "Emotional Tone Scale". This particular rating was probably the most detested level on said scale, earning such descriptions as "evil". (1980) ) hey, I even remember the cartoon that accompanied "Covert Hostility" on a poster in my old org. It was a grinning smiley face with one hand out to shake your hand and the other hand holding a club behind its back.

14th July 2005, 10:20 AM	#10
roger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA Posts: 11,064	Quote: Originally posted by Questioninggeller A little off topic, but: I have a co-worker who used to be a roommate with Hubbard's daughter (Diane?), and he tells of some very strange stuff in the few years after Hubbard died. Do tell. Please.