Modern Medical Quackery & The Culture of Death

[Rouser2]

The Execution of Terri Schiavo

"During the time of the Holocaust the Nazi SS sadistically punished rebellious prisoners by simply putting them in a cell without food or water. The hapless victim would be driven insane with hunger and thirst and would die a horrific, excruciating death. This would serve as an example to the other victims of the utter hopelessness of their condition. The man-made laws of Nazi Germany enabled the legal murder of millions. Likewise, the distorted logic of the American legal system has allowed a patient to be condemned to death in the cruelest fashion imaginable."

Excerpted from "The Terri Schiavo Tragedy"

by Mitchell S. Felder, M.D.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/felder1.html


Comment: Urged on by the Doctors of Modern Medicine (some of them), just like the Chief Priests at the Trial of Jesus. Whatever happened to the Principle based on the Hypocratic Oath: "Primum non nocere (First, Do No Harm)"????

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Any updates on who killed JFK?

Moron.

[gmanontario]

Is it ok to invoke Godwin's law on a quote?

[Rat]

Quote:

Originally posted by gmanontario
Is it ok to invoke Godwin's law on a quote?

I believe that it would be, but that would surely set a record for the quickest such invocation (i.e. on the opening post) in history.

Cheers,
Rat.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Quote:

Originally posted by gmanontario
Is it ok to invoke Godwin's law on a quote?

Hmmm....good point. I think we should throw it open for discussion.

[thatguywhojuggles]

Hey, I've got excellent news! I just got hired for a job in Sullivan IL! I'm out of this lame ol' town of Portand, OR. I've been spending the last 8 months of my life struggling here. Nothing worse than being reduced to deliving pizzas when you have a Master's Degree. Portland is flooded with artists, so many of the theatre companies get away with staffing themselfs with "volunteer positions." I didn't spend close to $40k, and six years of my life to be a volunteer!

Anyway, I'm leaving for Sullivan IL in mid May. I'll be working there over the summer as their audio technician!


Any skeptic groups in IL??

[Dr. Imago]

Quote:

Originally posted by Rouser2
Comment: Urged on by the Doctors of Modern Medicine (some of them), just like the Chief Priests at the Trial of Jesus. Whatever happened to the Principle based on the Hypocratic Oath: "Primum non nocere (First, Do No Harm)"????

How do you know that they were doing "no harm" by forceably and unnaturally keeping her alive? Do you know that she wanted to exist in that condition? What if, as testimony showed, that she did not want to be kept alive in a vegetative state? Does that matter to you? Or, is your perception of what is right or wrong paramount?

-TT

[neutrino_cannon]

Quote:

Originally posted by Rouser2
"Primum non nocere (First, Do No Harm)"????

I simply don't understand how that means what people say it means.

For starters, there's simply no way that "nocere" can be an active imperative. It could be a passive infinitive, but that totally changes the meaning to "don't be hurt". I suppose it could be third person plural indicative perfect, syncopated, but then this isn't supposed to be poetry.

It looks to me much more like a present active infinitive, meaning "to hurt", which would mean that the entire phrase translates "first not to do harm", which is fine as a mission statement, but it still isn't a command.

Unless there's some subtle point of Latin grammar I'm missing here.

So sorry about the derail.

Anyhow, I certainly object to the invocation of Nazis. Aside from warping the emotions of those involved in the discussion of the topic, which may or may not be a major ethical question, it suggests that there is some systemized killing of Americans in sadistic ways going on, which is simply not the case.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Quote:

Originally posted by thatguywhojuggles
Hey, I've got excellent news! I just got hired for a job in Sullivan IL! I'm out of this lame ol' town of Portand, OR. I've been spending the last 8 months of my life struggling here. Nothing worse than being reduced to deliving pizzas when you have a Master's Degree. Portland is flooded with artists, so many of the theatre companies get away with staffing themselfs with "volunteer positions." I didn't spend close to $40k, and six years of my life to be a volunteer!

Anyway, I'm leaving for Sullivan IL in mid May. I'll be working there over the summer as their audio technician!


Any skeptic groups in IL??

Man, we should have gotten together when I was in Portland. I left at the end of Feb.

Where is Sullivan? By Chicago?

[Rouser2]

Originally posted by ThirdTwin [/i]

>>How do you know that they were doing "no harm" by forceably and unnaturally keeping her alive?

Allowing a person to eat and drink, whether by mouth or by tube is hardly "unnatural" except in the minds of those who think disabled people are better off dead. On the contrary, armed police officers preventing the parents to give nutrition to a daughter being starved to death -- that is not just "unnatural," but criminal.

>>Do you know that she wanted to exist in that condition?

Do you know that she wanted to be starved and dehydrated to death???

>> What if, as testimony showed, that she did not want to be kept alive in a vegetative state?

There was testimony on both sides -- from the family and friends who loved her, they say one thing, and from the Schiavo family -- the estranged husband's family, another testimony. Michael Schiavo's girl friends claim he told them he made the whole thing up -- that he and Terri never even discussed it.

>>Or, is your perception of what is right or wrong paramount?

Somehow, the idea of a partially disabled person being starved and dehydrated to death under color of law is not a "perception" but a reality of the most heinous crime imaginable. What is paramount is challenging an ideasphere which only sees such a clear cut moral outrage as somebody's mere "perception".

[Rouser2]

Originally posted by neutrino_cannon [/i]

>>Anyhow, I certainly object to the invocation of Nazis. Aside from warping the emotions of those involved in the discussion of the topic, which may or may not be a major ethical question, it suggests that there is some systemized killing of Americans in sadistic ways going on, which is simply not the case.

No? Then you don't really care to know about the millions of the aborted unborn, nor the Doctors of Death crusaders who plan to pull the tubes on milliions of the elderly and disabled. Dr. Robert Cranford, head neorolgist/cheeleader of the Death To Terri Schiavo gang wants to do just that. But one under-color-of-law execution is one too many. Pardon me if your emotions are "warping".

[Mercutio]

Just curious, Rouser... I had a student with anorexia, who could have eloquently expressed her desire not to be fed. Would you have forced a tube down her throat, against her will?

I don't know my own position on that one, so it really is just a curious question.

[Dr. Imago]

Quote:

Originally posted by Rouser2
What is paramount is challenging an ideasphere which only sees such a clear cut moral outrage as somebody's mere "perception". [/b]

What is paramount is you actually understanding the nature of a series of "rhetorical" questions, which apparently you don't.

-TT

[thatguywhojuggles]

Quote:

Originally posted by The Central Scrutinizer
Man, we should have gotten together when I was in Portland. I left at the end of Feb.

Where is Sullivan? By Chicago?

I think it is about 4 hours south of Chicago.

Did you leave Portland for the same reason I am?

[SezMe]

Rouser, same question as posed in the last thread you started: How many threads are you going to start espousing the same old garbage, ignoring all feedback and making an utter @ss out of yourself before you get a life and move on?

[athon]

Rouser, you love to skirt the issue, don't you? Let's make assumptions, then rewrite the rules and insinuate a moral judgement on that fantasy...

Is starving a cell line, or leaving forzen human ova out on a bench to defrost and stave...are they immoral and inhumane? If you think so, then I leave you to your opinion and thank the gods that you are not in charge.

Terry Schiavo had cerebral liquification that, in spite of the limitations of CT scans, was said to be clearly visible. Yes, CT scans can be unreliable due to limited detail, but in this case it was like taking a fuzzy photograph of a house and seeing no house there. Typically MRI and PET scans would be implemented there was ambiguity , however there was none. Not until Mrs. Schiavo's parents misinterpreted signs of consciousness. A number of specialists who had no investment in the case either way had denied the need for them. Hence the husband never authorised them.

Should PET scans have been done? Perhaps, as I am happy to admit I never saw the original CT scans and won't comment as to whether they were plain or not. But I see no reason not to trust the authority of the doctors in this case.

So rather than assuming that Terry Schiavo was a self-aware human fifteen years after her brain died, let's look at the real facts first.

Athon

[Deetee]

Just interested Rouser -
why did you title your thread "Modern Medical Quackery " when you are (as you indicate yourself) discussing the issue of "the distorted logic of the American legal system"?

[Rouser2]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mercutio
Just curious, Rouser... I had a student with anorexia, who could have eloquently expressed her desire not to be fed. Would you have forced a tube down her throat, against her will?

I don't know my own position on that one, so it really is just a curious question.

It's an off-point question. The starvation of Terri Schiavo was not a question of an assisted suicide, but a forced execution.

[Rouser2]

Originally posted by athon [/i]


>>...Is starving a cell line, or leaving forzen human ova out on a bench to defrost and stave...are they immoral and inhumane?

Another off-point diversion. Terri Schiavo was neither a cell line, nor a human ova, but a living, breathing, reacting human being.

>>Terry Schiavo had cerebral liquification that, in spite of the limitations of CT scans, was said to be clearly visible.

Was said??

>>Yes, CT scans can be unreliable due to limited detail, but in this case it was like taking a fuzzy photograph of a house and seeing no house there. Typically MRI and PET scans would be implemented there was ambiguity , however there was none.

Yeah, well there's a radiologist on the Court TV board who is offering $100,000 to anyone who ID Terri's Schiavo's alleged CAT scan wtih a whole bunch of others which are definitely not PVS.

>> Not until Mrs. Schiavo's parents misinterpreted signs of consciousness. A number of specialists who had no investment in the case either way had denied the need for them. Hence the husband never authorised them.
Should PET scans have been done? Perhaps, as I am happy to admit I never saw the original CT scans and won't comment as to whether they were plain or not. But I see no reason not to trust the authority of the doctors in this case.

You mean only the Doctors of Death appointed by Michael Schiavo and the Court, Presumably you do not refer to the doctors of Life appointed by the Schindler family. When it comes to court proceedings, you can get any so-called Doctor to testify any way you want. And everone in the Legal community know this very well. Medical experts at a legal hearing are paid whores for a particular point of view. There is no such a thing as an "objective" medical expert.

>>So rather than assuming that Terry Schiavo was a self-aware human fifteen years after her brain died, let's look at the real facts first.


That her brain died 15 years ago is a conclusion unsupported by the facts. I don't need a Doctor of Death to assert that person is a living vegetable since those who loved Terri and cared for her know that vegetables do not laugh, nor cry, nor react, nor speak.

From the sworn affidavite of Nurse Carla Iyer:

"Terri's medical condition was systematically distorted and
misrepresented by Michael. When I worked with her, she was alert and oriented. Terri spoke on a regular basis while in my presence, saying such things as "mommy," and "help me." "Help me" was, in fact, one of her most frequent utterances. I heard her say it hundreds of times. Terri would try to say the word "pain" when she was in discomfort, but it came out more like "pay." She didn't say the "n" sound very well. During her menses she would indicate her discomfort by saying "pay" and moving her arms toward her lower abdominal area. Other ways that she would indicate that she was in pain included pursing her lips, grimacing, thrashing in bed, curling her toes or moving her legs around. She would let you know when she had a bowel movement by flipping up the covers and pulling on her diaper
and scooted in bed on her bottom.

When I came into her room and said "Hi, Terri", she would always recognize my voice and her name, and would turn her head all the way toward me, saying "Haaaiiiii" sort of, as she did. I recognized this as a "hi", which is very close to what it sounded like, the whole sound being only a second or two long. When I told her humrous stories about my life or something I read in the paper, Terri would chuckle, sometimes more a giggle or laugh. She would move her whole body, upper and lower. Her legs would sometimes be off the bed, and need to be repositioned. I made numerous entries into the nursing notes in her chart, stating verbatim what she said and her various behaviors, but by my next on-duty shift, the notes would be deleted from her chart.

Every time I made a positive entry about any responsiveness of Terri's, someone would remove it after my shift ended. Michael always demanded to see her chart as soon as he arrived, and would take it in her room with him. I documented Terri's rehab potential well, writing whole pages about Terri's responsiveness, but they would
always be deleted by the next time I saw her chart. The reason I wrote so much was that everybody else seemed to be afraid to make positive entries for fear of their jobs, but I felt very strongly that a nurses job was to accurately record everything we see and hear that bears on a patients condition and their family. I upheld the Nurses Practice Act,
and if it cost me my job, I was willing to accept that."

[Rouser2]

Quote:

Originally posted by Deetee
Just interested Rouser -
why did you title your thread "Modern Medical Quackery " when you are (as you indicate yourself) discussing the issue of "the distorted logic of the American legal system"?

Because without the assistance of Modern Medical Quacks, the legal system could not have proceded to use thier tortured logic to torture and then execute an innocent human being.

[athon]

Quote:

Originally posted by Rouser2
Another off-point diversion. Terri Schiavo was neither a cell line, nor a human ova, but a living, breathing, reacting human being.

Not off point at all. This is a question of defining the line between being a body-shaped collection of respiring cells and being a self-aware, conscious being. I'm saying the weight of evidence as far as we, the public, have available - based on evaluating what we are told - suggests that she was the former.

Quote:

Was said??

Can you not see the irony here? Unless you have some privileged position here that we are not aware of, we are both in identical positions of having access to the same information. I can accuse you of the same thing. It is an evaluation of that information we are entitled to perform, and nothing more.

We are reduced to arguing the validity of each party. Since yours is an emotional choice, as expressed by the deplorably connotative choice of words you use to describe each party, then it is even less of an evaluation based on weight of credibility. For you, it is simply an emotional decision. And as we know, no reason will ever compete with an emotional choice.

Quote:

Yeah, well there's a radiologist on the Court TV board who is offering $100,000 to anyone who ID Terri's Schiavo's alleged CAT scan wtih a whole bunch of others which are definitely not PVS.

Can I have a link to this? Matter of curiosity more than mistrust.

Quote:

You mean only the Doctors of Death appointed by Michael Schiavo and the Court, Presumably you do not refer to the doctors of Life appointed by the Schindler family. When it comes to court proceedings, you can get any so-called Doctor to testify any way you want. And everone in the Legal community know this very well. Medical experts at a legal hearing are paid whores for a particular point of view. There is no such a thing as an "objective" medical expert.

Hell, my irony meter just broke. In the same breath you label the parties in a truly horrendous manner and then claim you can bias a side by selecting the expertise. I agree, and am willing to admit that it could have happened to either side.

I can't say that Terry Schiavo would never have recovered, and for that the real lesson is that we need better laws covering evaluation of medical practices surrounding the euthanasia issue. Unfortunately right-to-life advocates cloud the waters too much to improve definitions. From the evidence I have seen, there is a very high chance that Terry Schiavo would never have recovered.

Quote:

From the sworn affidavite of Nurse Carla Iyer:

You know, I have grave reservations about any truth to this. There's a number of reasons why, which I don't have time to address now.

Athon

[AWPrime]

Quote:

R2
Not off point at all. This is a question of defining the line between being a body-shaped collection of respiring cells and being a self-aware, conscious being. I'm saying the weight of evidence as far as we, the public, have available - based on evaluating what we are told - suggests that she was the former.

Well the CAT scan, the random responces and the doctors say otherwise.

Guess, who we believe.



ps. Are you ever going to enter a hospital after this paranoia?

[Darat]

Quote:

Originally posted by Rouser2
It's an off-point question. The starvation of Terri Schiavo was not a question of an assisted suicide, but a forced execution.

Out of curiosity what would you suggest happen if Teri's husband had no money to pay for the life support? Would you expect the state to pay for that?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Quote:

Originally posted by thatguywhojuggles
I think it is about 4 hours south of Chicago.

Did you leave Portland for the same reason I am?

4 hours south would be in Southern Illinois. I never heard of it. Is it a small town? How does one end up there?

I left because the contract I was working on came to an end.

[Deetee]

Quote:

Originally posted by Rouser2
Because without the assistance of Modern Medical Quacks, the legal system could not have proceded to use thier tortured logic to torture and then execute an innocent human being.

Would you call the doctors who were making the case for Terry Schiavo to be kept alive "modern medical quacks", or do you just try and throw dirt at those whose opinions you don't agree with?

What is a modern medical quack, anyway - care to give a comprehensive definition?

[CurtC]

Rouser, are you aware that patients are allowed to die in this manner (withdrawal of food and water) many times every single day in the US?

[athon]

Quote:

Originally posted by CurtC
Rouser, are you aware that patients are allowed to die in this manner (withdrawal of food and water) many times every single day in the US?

Rouser would not only be aware of it, he would also feel this is a further travesty of modern medicine.

Yep, the same modern medicine whose opinion he believes on the misdiagnosis theory of TS. Easy to pick and choose when one has no clue to begin with.

Athon

[kookbreaker]

Quote:

Originally posted by athon
Rouser would not only be aware of it, he would also feel this is a further travesty of modern medicine.

Is Rouser going to advocate ignoring living wills? Sure sound like he is going that way.

[Rolfe]

Quote:

Originally posted by Rat
I believe that it would be, but that would surely set a record for the quickest such invocation (i.e. on the opening post) in history.

Nah, that one's already been achieved, by a certain troll called Xanta, who was calling herself Olaf at the time in question.

Rolfe.

[Mercutio]

Quote:

Originally posted by Rouser2
It's an off-point question. The starvation of Terri Schiavo was not a question of an assisted suicide, but a forced execution.

Um, no, it is not off-point. Your assertion that it was a forced execution is balanced by claims on the other side that it was her wish, as conveyed to her husband, that she be allowed to die. My question to you simply took away the ambiguity and asked about your willingness to intervene even if her intentions were quite clear. Admittedly, it is a different question; I was mostly exploring whether you were committed to preserving life in all circumstances, or whether this situation requires your assumption that she was unwilling to die.






(If I were more cynical, it would also explore the possibility that you are taking advantage of her inability to express herself, in order to put your own words in her mouth to further your argument. But I am not that cynical. Nope. Not me.)

[thatguywhojuggles]

Quote:

Originally posted by The Central Scrutinizer
4 hours south would be in Southern Illinois. I never heard of it. Is it a small town? How does one end up there?

I left because the contract I was working on came to an end.

Sullivan is a very small town. I'm happy about that. I'm most comfortable in smaller towns.

As to how I ended up there, well... after 8 months of struggling in Portland, I decided that perhaps this whole idea of "it's not how good you are, but who you know that matters" might have something to it. This idea, by the way, is something that frustrates me to no end. Anyway, I did a search of a guy's name who I worked with at a childrens theatre in the past. He was the technical director at this theatre. I emailed him, just to say hello. Two hours after I emailed, he was calling me on the phone offering me a job.

So tell me, what kind of work do you do?

[toddjh]

Quote:

Originally posted by thatguywhojuggles
Sullivan is a very small town. I'm happy about that. I'm most comfortable in smaller towns.

I live just a few miles away from Sullivan. Despite being in the middle of Amish country (with hitching posts at the stores), it's pretty progressive for a small Illinois town. Are you going to work at the Little Theater on the Square? That's a great place.

Jeremy

[anonimouse]

Quote:

Originally posted by Rouser2 That her brain died 15 years ago is a conclusion unsupported by the facts. I don't need a Doctor of Death to assert that person is a living vegetable since those who loved Terri and cared for her know that vegetables do not laugh, nor cry, nor react, nor speak.

And this is supported by who? People who have a vested political interest? Her parents, who were likely either deluded by false hope or, more cynically, used as pawns by said interests?

Look, I want to preserve life as much as anyone, and would much rather err on the side of keeping a person alive if there was a reasonable doubt about their wishes or a reasonable possibility the person might recover. I'm not sure that was the case here, however.

Quote:

From the sworn affidavite of Nurse Carla Iyer:

"Terri's medical condition was systematically distorted and
misrepresented by Michael. When I worked with her, she was alert and oriented. Terri spoke on a regular basis while in my presence, saying such things as "mommy," and "help me." "Help me" was, in fact, one of her most frequent utterances. I heard her say it hundreds of times.

Then why not once in the presence of numerous doctors who evaluated her condition? Look, I've seen the videos that purport to show Terri Schiavo in a cognitive state, but any rational view of those tapes only illustrate the wishful thinking her parents employed in believing that Terri was communicating with her.

Quote:

Every time I made a positive entry about any responsiveness of Terri's, someone would remove it after my shift ended. Michael always demanded to see her chart as soon as he arrived, and would take it in her room with him. I documented Terri's rehab potential well, writing whole pages about Terri's responsiveness, but they would always be deleted by the next time I saw her chart. The reason I wrote so much was that everybody else seemed to be afraid to make positive entries for fear of their jobs, but I felt very strongly that a nurses job was to accurately record everything we see and hear that bears on a patients condition and their family. I upheld the Nurses Practice Act, and if it cost me my job, I was willing to accept that."

This clearly was not the opinion of other nurses who treated Terri nor most of the doctors involved. Again, like the parents, if you want to believe someone is still communicating and cognizant, you will look for any possible sign of that. It doesn't mean that it's objectively there. That's why scientific evaluation, not emotional appeal, is the right approach in cases like these. There's no way to make rational decisions otherwise.

[LostAngeles]

If Nurse Iyer told the truth and Terri could speak, then why didn't she once the tube was taken out and she was suffering from starvation?

Anyone? Anyone? Rouser?

[Rouser2]

Originally posted by athon [/i]

riginally posted by Rouser2
Another off-point diversion. Terri Schiavo was neither a cell line, nor a human ova, but a living, breathing, reacting human being.

>>Not off point at all. This is a question of defining the line between being a body-shaped collection of respiring cells and being a self-aware, conscious being. I'm saying the weight of evidence as far as we, the public, have available - based on evaluating what we are told - suggests that she was the former.


Oh, I would quite agree -- the "weight of evidence" that you and the rest of the Great Unwashed (and unread) have. And that is perhaps the most incidious aspect of this entire atrocity -- the evidence you have as carried by the mainstream media, measured against the evidence that is actually available, weighed in the balance against the actual truth, and found wanting.


>>Can you not see the irony here? Unless you have some privileged position here that we are not aware of, we are both in identical positions of having access to the same information.

eah, well there's a radiologist on the Court TV board who is offering $100,000 to anyone who ID Terri's Schiavo's alleged CAT scan wtih a whole bunch of others which are definitely not PVS.

>>Can I have a link to this? Matter of curiosity more than mistrust.

courtv.com. Then Message boards, then, Terry Schiavo, then, oh, you can find it soon enough.

>>I can't say that Terry Schiavo would never have recovered, and for that the real lesson is that we need better laws covering evaluation of medical practices surrounding the euthanasia issue. Unfortunately right-to-life advocates cloud the waters too much to improve definitions. From the evidence I have seen, there is a very high chance that Terry Schiavo would never have recovered.

Never recovered? There are thousands not much better off, born that way and main-streamed into the government schools who will "never recover." Should they all be executed as well???

quote:From the sworn affidavite of Nurse Carla Iyer:

>>You know, I have grave reservations about any truth to this. There's a number of reasons why, which I don't have time to address now.

And truth to what? The words of Carly Iyer? Or the accuracy of her observations? No, if true, it might be just a trifle discomforting.




_______________

[Rouser2]

Quote:

Originally posted by AWPrime

Well the CAT scan, the random responces and the doctors say otherwise.

Guess, who we believe.

"The doctors say otherwise??? Only the doctors of death. Other doctors question the verdict. As to the CAT scan, which one? Several of Terri's CAT scans were evaluated as appearing "Normal".

[Rouser2]

Quote:

Originally posted by Darat
Out of curiosity what would you suggest happen if Teri's husband had no money to pay for the life support? Would you expect the state to pay for that?

I would "expect" the government to pay for it, but no, I do not think the govenment should pay for it, as a response to your "curiosity." The Schindler's have millions from their foundation, and could have cared for Terri indefinitely.

[Rouser2]

Originally posted by Deetee [/i]

>>Would you call the doctors who were making the case for Terry Schiavo to be kept alive "modern medical quacks", or do you just try and throw dirt at those whose opinions you don't agree with?

Insofar as their views of life and death of an aware, but partially disabled human being, they are not quacks, other possible issues aside.

>>What is a modern medical quack, anyway - care to give a comprehensive definition?

A Modern Medical Quack is a fully credentialed medical doctor who practices and espouses established mainstream medical nostrums that either don't work, or that harm (or in this case) kill thier patients.

[Rouser2]

Quote:

Originally posted by CurtC
Rouser, are you aware that patients are allowed to die in this manner (withdrawal of food and water) many times every single day in the US?

No, I am not. Not aware of that at all. Not in patients who are not terminal. And not death via dehydration and starvations with 3 police officers there to prevent parents or loved ones intruding on the execution. Not aware of that at all.

[anonimouse]

Quote:

Originally posted by Rouser2
I would "expect" the government to pay for it, but no, I do not think the govenment should pay for it, as a response to your "curiosity." The Schindler's have millions from their foundation, and could have cared for Terri indefinitely.

Millions in their foundation? They could've cared for her indefinitely?

If that's true (and I don't know whether it is or isn't) wouldn't that be a financial motive on the Schindler's part to keep Terri alive? It's certainly more plausible than Michael Schiavo wanting to keep her alive for the pittance that's left in the malpractice settlement.

Just saying.