Cancer/Infections and Iron relations?

[Kumar]

Hello all,

Looks like bit dull atmosphere.

Pls look at these quotes:-

Quote:

Iron loading in specific tissues and increased risk for disease
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tissue type-- Disease

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alveolar macrophages-- Pulmonary neoplasia and infection
Anterior pituitary-- Gonadal and growth dysfunction

Aorta; carotid and
coronary arteries-- Atherosclerosis

Colorectal mucosa-- Adenoma, carcinoma, Heart Arrhythmia,
cardiomyopathy

Infant intestine-- Botulism, salmonellosis, sudden death
Joints Arthrop Liver Viral hepatis cirrhosis,
carcinoma

Macrophages-- Intracellular infections

Pancreas--- Acinar and beta cell necrosis, carcinoma

Plasma and lymph-- Extracellular infections

Skeletal system-- Osteoporosis

Skin--- Leprosy, melanoma

Soft tissue-- Sarcoma

Substantia nigra-- Parkinson's disease

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol5no3/weinberg.htm


The role of iron in cancer

Numerous laboratory and clinical investigations over the past few decades have observed that one of the dangers of iron is its ability to favour neoplastic cell growth. The metal is carcinogenic due to its catalytic effect on the formation of hydroxyl radicals, suppression of the activity of host defence cells and promotion of cancer cell multiplication. In both animals and humans, primary neoplasms develop at body sites of excessive iron deposits. The invaded host attempts to withhold iron from the cancer cells via sequestration of the metal in newly formed ferritin. The host also endeavours to withdraw the metal from cancer cells via macrophage synthesis of nitric oxide. Quantitative evaluation of body iron and of iron-withholding proteins has prognostic value in cancer patients. Procedures associated with lowering host iron intake and inducing host cell iron efflux can assist in prevention and management of neoplastic diseases. Pharmaceutical methods for depriving neoplastic cells of iron are being developed in experimental and clinical protocols.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

Do you have any idea about Iron overloed & cancers/Infections occurance & persistance?

Whether excess gastric acid secreations can cause excess iron digestion & so excess absorption resulting into all these problems?

How can you differenciate between excess iron in body and imbalanced iron distribution in body? I mean focal or generalized deposition within the tissues.

What pale/jaundiced skin, reddend skin and somewhat blank/hyperpigmented skin indicate?

Can it be better to have some low level of iron in body or occasionaly reduce it by with-holding iron, lowering gastric acid, fasting or otherwise to discourage cancer & infections esp. latent?

What about; "Iron is not excreted. The iron you absorb stays and accumulates in storage except that you can lose one milligram a day through hair, finger nails, skin cells(via sweat) and other detritus & blood loss?

This link gives some details onSerum iron levels.

Rest as usual.

Best wishes.

[Kumar]

Just look at these snips:-

Quote:

Fact Sheet: Iron overload;

12. A low iron diet is not recommended. Avoid alcohol, vitamin C additives and raw seafood. (Gastric acidity??)

13....Hemoglobin level does not indicate iron status. A disorder of thyroid or any part of the body can be a symptom of iron overload.

14. Excess iron lowers the immune system. Many diseases will show a poor outcome unless any excess iron is removed: AIDs, cancer and hepatitis, for example.

Hemochromatosis and Anemia Diet

1. A low iron diet is not recommended or even possible to design. Iron is in everything and foods
that contain iron also provide other essential elements to help heal and rebuild the body.

6. What about anemia? Anemias are iron-loading, except for anemias resulting from chronic blood loss or tumor. When iron accumulates in storage instead being used by hemoglobin, the patient's hemoglobin will test low. Iron should not be administered. Instead the patient needs a complex of B vitamins, including B6, folate or folic acid and B12. The excess iron must be removed despite the anemia.

7. When low iron is found, it is essential to seek the source of the blood loss or cancer. Cancer cells require iron to proliferate. It is dangerous to medicate with iron without first knowing the iron levels and then discovering the reason for low iron.

10. Alcohol should be avoided until the de-ironing process is completed.

12. Those in protocol treatment will benefit from a B complex of vitamins, including B6, folic acid or folate and B12. Low doses of vitamin E - below 50 International Units daily is also beneficial.

14. Who should take iron? The only candidate for iron supplementation is an individual who has had large portions of gut removed.

more.......pls read.

[Deetee]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
10. Alcohol should be avoided until the de-ironing process is completed

According to my wife (who does the ironing), in my case there is usually a direct association between alcohol and the de-ironing process.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
more.......pls read.

Why should we?

[Kumar]

Can we think about inverse relationship between iron & body's defence/immune system? Whether defence system uses iron for effecting defence mechnisms/immunity or not? If not does it discourage iron? Why RBCs have iron whereas leucocytes, T cells etc. don't have? What about blood circulatoty system & lymphatic system?

[anonimouse]

Here's a fun idea. Someone with some technical skill should come up with a "Random Kumar Subject Title Generator".

It's easy.

The first part needs to refer to a disease or medical phenemon:

-Cancer
-Infection
-Autoimmunity

Etc, etc.

The second part needs to refer to either a vitamin, mineral, or some woo kind of philosophy.

-Iron
-Water Memory Storage
-Ph Balance

You can randomly generate some fun future Kumar posts:

"Cancer and Ph Balance Relations"
"Infection and Iron Relations"
"Autoimmunity and Water Memory Storage Relations"
"Genetic Disorders and Tissue Salt Relations"

Actually, I wonder if Kumar himself has already built this, and that's how he gets the idea for his posts.

[Deetee]

For some time now I have had the notion that Kumarbot is merely a rather malprogrammed, random word generator that compiles all of his posts, contents included.

Just look at his sig for a typical example.

[Kumar]

Quote:

Originally posted by sodakboy93
Here's a fun idea. Someone with some technical skill should come up with a "Random Kumar Subject Title Generator".

It's easy.

The first part needs to refer to a disease or medical phenemon:

-Cancer
-Infection
-Autoimmunity

Etc, etc.

The second part needs to refer to either a vitamin, mineral, or some woo kind of philosophy.

-Iron
-Water Memory Storage
-Ph Balance

You can randomly generate some fun future Kumar posts:

"Cancer and Ph Balance Relations"
"Infection and Iron Relations"
"Autoimmunity and Water Memory Storage Relations"
"Genetic Disorders and Tissue Salt Relations"

Actually, I wonder if Kumar himself has already built this, and that's how he gets the idea for his posts.

Not bad ideas for future. Sometimes, something itches me; What is/can be the relations between TRs & yet unclear aspects? Getting some ideas from that & just to indicate & clear those irritations, new postings/ideas come to mind.

"Water Memory Storage", one word seems to be wrong to me in this. Just assume.

[Kumar]

Researchers at the Medical University of South Carolina in Charleston, S.C., found people with elevated levels of serum transferrin saturation -- an indicator of iron overload -- and who consume high levels of dietary iron, have an increased risk of cancer and cancer mortality.

Quote:

Transferrin Saturation, Dietary Iron Intake, and Risk of Cancer
CONCLUSIONS: Among persons with increased transferrin saturation, a daily intake of dietary iron more than 18 mg is associated with an increased risk of cancer. Future research might focus on the benefits of dietary changes in those individuals with increased serum transferrin saturation.

http://annalsfm.highwire.org/cgi/con...lcode=annalsfm

Also think of excess gastric acid secretions in this respect.

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
Researchers at the Medical University of South Carolina in Charleston, S.C., found people with elevated levels of serum transferrin saturation -- an indicator of iron overload -- and who consume high levels of dietary iron, have an increased risk of cancer and cancer mortality.

Let's all wave a happy greeting to the Good Grammar Fairy as she flutters by us once more.

[BillC]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
Can we think about inverse relationship between iron & body's defence/immune system? Whether defence system uses iron for effecting defence mechnisms/immunity or not? If not does it discourage iron? Why RBCs have iron whereas leucocytes, T cells etc. don't have? What about blood circulatoty system & lymphatic system?

Why do you ask?

[Kumar]

Quote:

Originally posted by BillC
Why do you ask?

That is a dynamic & important thought for you. Why I ask & reply both myself, if you don't reply, decid not to reply, become irritated temporarily--still feel something in heart & come back. "HE" makes you to feel that & bring you & me together again & again, may be for something good, hidden. So just don't manipulate, waste time in irritations & devoid the humanity/you/me for some dynamic/different knowledge. Just don't think otherwise as we are searching in jungles not in cities/banks.

[Eos of the Eons]

My blood iron is low, but not too low. I still got to give blood. I think I'm at "13". While I was pregnant I had to take iron supplements to make sure I didn't suffer any iron deficiency problems.

I hope kumar isn't suggesting people try to purge iron, or keep their intake low for the yet unproven increased risk of cancer due to iron overload. Who has too much iron? What kind of diet would lead to iron overload? Who is at risk?

And who are these "Iron Overload Diseases Association, INC. " weirdos? What are their qualifications?

RBCs have iron because they need to carry oxygen. No other cells need to perform that job.

Here, anybody can understand this:

Quote:

Red blood cells contain an iron-rich protein called hemoglobin (pronounced: hee-muh-glow-bun). Blood gets its bright red color when hemoglobin in red blood cells picks up oxygen in the lungs.

http://kidshealth.org/parent/general...ics/blood.html

Not enough iron, not enough oxygen in the blood. The body needs oxygen. The lymphatic system needs oxygen.

Now, another organ with a lot of iron because of its relationship to blood in body is the liver.

Thing is, like I said before, what percentage of the population is at risk of having too much iron and how do they get that way? In the abstract it looks like body has its own way of dealing with cancer cells and keeping iron away from them. What are neoplastic diseases and how common are they?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

The answer is no.

[BillC]

Kumar, I am afraid I didn't understand your reply to me at all, despite reading it several times. You seem however, a little irritated that I asked it.

To restate the question: 'why do you ask about red blood cells, iron and the immune system?'. If you have an underlying goal behind asking these questions, perhaps you can tell us, and we can direct our responses along those lines.

[Kumar]

BillC,

Recently, My one relative got tested as suffering from TB Lymphatic adentitis. I was reading about it on internet. I happen to note all these iron problems. Previously, I also discussed about digestive pH imbalances, excess gastric acid secretions, antacids effects related to Iron, B12, calcium, folic acid digestion/absorptions. Thus, I am trying to understand this concept more deeply. This concept is also related to some basic/prime systems & somewhat systematic & constitutional effect.

Eos of the Eons,

I also want to understand this "Iron Overload/Imbalances" more deeply, since many links create couristies & confusions in this respect. Do google search "Iron overload" or "IronTB/ Cancer".

Higher than normal leavel indicate:-

Quote:

Higher-than-normal levels may indicate:
hemochromatosis
hemolysis
hemolytic anemias
hemosiderosis
hepatic (liver) necrosis (tissue death)
hepatitis
vitamin B-12 deficiency, vitamin B-6 deficiency
iron poisoning
multiple blood transfusions
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/003488.htm

"Hemochromatosis is a disorder that interferes with iron metabolism and results in excess iron deposits throughout the body.
Primary hemochromatosis is the most common genetic disorder in the US, affecting an estimated 1 of every 200-300 Americans. Similar symptoms may occur from the secondary form of hemochromatosis....First, excess iron accumulates in the liver and causes liver enlargement. Then, other organs are affected. The disease may lead to the development of diabetes, skin pigment changes, cardiac problems, arthritis, testicular atrophy, cirrhosis of the liver, liver cancer, hypopituitarism, chronic abdominal pain, severe fatigue, and increased risk of certain bacterial infections."


It is considered as genetic & was bit rare disorder. I think Diabetes & hypertension were also bit rare at much lower level in older times . But our genetic predispostion added with modern lifestyle & environment, can show some differerances or epidemic type increase. Diabetes, hypertention, may be TB/other latencies etc. are some example of this increase. You know mental stresses aided by modern lifestyle & environments can cause excess gastric acid secretions, so.......

[steenkh]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
Recently, My one relative got tested as suffering from TB Lymphatic adentitis. I was reading about it on internet. I happen to note all these iron problems. Previously, I also discussed about digestive pH imbalances, excess gastric acid secretions, antacids effects related to Iron, B12, calcium, folic acid digestion/absorptions. Thus, I am trying to understand this concept more deeply.

Actually, Kumar, I am impressed! I thought that you of all people would ensure that your relative would digest sugar pills sprayed with magic water!

When you try to look at other causes and remedies, it seems that you are not completely lost to reason.

[Donks]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
It is considered as genetic & was bit rare disorder. I think Diabetes & hypertension were also bit rare at much lower level in older times . But our genetic predispostion added with modern lifestyle & environment, can show some differerances or epidemic type increase. Diabetes, hypertention, may be TB/other latencies etc. are some example of this increase. You know mental stresses aided by modern lifestyle & environments can cause excess gastric acid secretions, so.......

What do you think happened to diabetics before insulin was available?

[El Greco]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
if you don't reply, decid not to reply, become irritated temporarily--still feel something in heart & come back. "HE" makes you to feel that & bring you & me together again & again, may be for something good, hidden.

"HE" ? Who's "HE" ? Godzilla ?

[Kumar]

Quote:

Originally posted by Donks
What do you think happened to diabetics before insulin was available?

I have heard about three cases of my near realtive. They died at about 70. One diabetic patient with 30/40 year history is still healthy at about 77 with out insulin. Another with much care & on insulin is very sick at about 62. Few suffered heavily even on best medication/insulin, whereas other remained much well without same. Confusing/contradictory results are there. I know many diabetics lived 60+ with out taking insulin. I can't tell all details. Do you have any data of diabetic patients medicated with & without insulin.

[MRC_Hans]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
I have heard about three cases of my near realtive. They died at about 70. One diabetic patient with 30/40 year history is still healthy at about 77 with out insulin. Another with much care & on insulin is very sick at about 62. Few suffered heavily even on best medication/insulin, whereas other remained much well without same. Confusing/contradictory results are there. I know many diabetics lived 60+ with out taking insulin. I can't tell all details. Do you have any data of diabetic patients medicated with & without insulin.

A nice piece of Kumar logic [tm].

Patient A is not very sick; patient A does not get much medicine.

Patient B is very sick; patient B gets much medicine.

Kumar conclusion: Medicine makes you sick.


Kumar, not all patients are alike. You could learn something from homeopaths there . Some diabetics need only a little extra exercise and more healthy food. Others need some oral medicine. And some are entirely insulin dependent.

If you deprive an insulin dependent patient of insulin, he will eventually die. He can be kept alive for some time with a very strict diet, but will suffer severe effects of the disease, and his life will be significantly shortened.

Before insulin was invented, type 1 diabetics had a very poor outlook.

Type 2 is different, in that far from all type 2 diabetics progress to insulin dependency.

Hans

[Dr. Imago]

This thread responses (thus far) totals:

Kumar (including OP): 8
Deetee: 2
sodakboy93: 1
Badly Shaved Monkey: 1
BillC: 2
Eos of the Eons: 1
The Central Scrutinizer: 1 (and the "best" response so far)
steenkh: 1
Donks: 1
El Greco: 1
MRC_Hans: 1
ThirdTwin: 1

From this, I conclude that Kumarbot is mostly feeding himself. But, it seems that we have a regular cast of characters (presented company, of course, included) that seem to be routinely taking the bait (but, please note that my contribution here is truly and mostly academic ).

No other point but that.

-TT

[Donks]

Quote:

Originally posted by ThirdTwin
From this, I conclude that Kumarbot is mostly feeding himself. But, it seems that we have a regular cast of characters (presented company, of course, included) that seem to be routinely taking the bait (but, please note that my contribution here is truly and mostly academic ).

No other point but that.

-TT

Well, I only joined the Anti-Kumar Brigade because I was told there were lots of hot chicks involved, and that the cast member parties were quasi-orgies.

[Iamme]

Kumar---According to Kevin Trudeau the cure for cancer...and even the not getting it in the first place has to do with your bodies ph. If you are acidic you will get cancer. If you are alkaline you can*NOT* get cancer!Youcan change your ph by various means. Your bodies ph can be the way it is even because of your attitude!!!

Coincidence: As I just began to post this, the infomercial with Kevin Trudeau, on this very subject came on!!! What in the world?!?! It's on right now, over my left shoulder!

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Quote:

Originally posted by Donks
Well, I only joined the Anti-Kumar Brigade because I was told there were lots of hot chicks involved, and that the cast member parties were quasi-orgies.

Hey, guess what! For no good reason, I'd led myself to think you possessed 2 X-chromosomes. Funny how your picture of someone on a forum can prove to be so wrong (which would still be true even if you do have XX but like the ladies anyway).

[Donks]

Quote:

Originally posted by Badly Shaved Monkey
Hey, guess what! For no good reason, I'd led myself to think you possessed 2 X-chromosomes. Funny how your picture of someone on a forum can prove to be so wrong (which would still be true even if you do have XX but like the ladies anyway).

Not sure how to respond, it's the first time I'm mistaken for a female I better start doing more manly things to avoid confusion.
Online my bias is to assume everyone is male until proven otherwise.

[ReFLeX]

Quote:

Originally posted by El Greco
"HE" ? Who's "HE" ? Godzilla ?

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
Every knowledgable person tells that supreme power creates, operates & destroys this universe.

Duh.

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Quote:

Originally posted by Donks
Not sure how to respond, it's the first time I'm mistaken for a female I better start doing more manly things to avoid confusion.
Online my bias is to assume everyone is male until proven otherwise.

I have no real idea why I made the assumption. Weird, huh?

[Rolfe]

I just leave that quote from Snoopy in my sig to confuse people even more. Fun, what?

Rolfe.

XX

[ReFLeX]

And here I thought Rolfe was a male name...

[Kumar]

I think this topic belongs to bit new knowledge so not known to you. I can feel it in consideration of posting qualities. Anyway thanks.

[Donks]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
I think this topic belongs to bit new knowledge so not known to you. I can feel it in consideration of posting qualities. Anyway thanks.

Or perhaps you have finally exhausted everyone here and noone is currently willing to reply to you with anything of value.

[Kumar]

Quote:

Originally posted by Donks
Or perhaps you have finally exhausted everyone here and noone is currently willing to reply to you with anything of value.

No, I don't think so. Inspite of everything, I know that if anyone knows, he do post.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
No, I don't think so. Inspite of everything, I know that if anyone knows, he do post.

I already have. Again, the answer is no.

[Rolfe]

Quote:

Originally posted by ReFLeX
And here I thought Rolfe was a male name...

The cat was called Rolfe. It was actually the surname of the people who used to own him, before I adopted him. I never knew his original name.

I copied the idea from The Princess Diaries, where the girl's email handle is "ftlouie" because her cat is called Fat Louie.

Rolfe.

PS. A veterinary email group I belong to has just wound up a very long and detailed discussion with an off-the-wall researcher who is riding the hypothesis that diabetes in the horse is related to iron overload. She's perfectly serious, but her evidence doesn't stand up.

We've been through the literature with the proverbial fine-tooth comb, and everyone on the list has contributed relevant case studies, and frankly I doubt if Kumar could understand more than one word in ten.

Maybe one day it will occur to him that some of us are fed up throwing pearls before this particular swine, and that trying to explain complex concepts to someone who neither can nor wants to understand becomes tedious after a while.

OK, Kumar, I know nothing about this subject, and you are the expert. Now go away.

[Kumar]

Quote:

Originally posted by Rolfe
.

OK, Kumar, I know nothing about this subject, and you are the expert. Now go away.

Can't say, I just count & account my earnings.

"The body does not have a way to get rid of iron except when there is bleeding"

How we can relate iron overload with natural bleeding as excess menses, bleeding from tooth etc.?

[Donks]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
"The body does not have a way to get rid of iron except when there is bleeding"

So, there is no iron in urine, faeces, sweat or shed cells? Did you bother researching? No? Thought so.

[Kumar]

Quote:

Originally posted by Donks
So, there is no iron in urine, faeces, sweat or shed cells? Did you bother researching? No? Thought so.

Just appx. 1 mg per day is not getting rid of excess iron? Other outlets are indicated in previous links.

[Kumar]

Can bleeding, getting injuries etc. be a natural body reaction not just an accident--to get rid of excess/imbalanced iron from body?

[Donks]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
Can bleeding, getting injuries etc. be a natural body reaction not just an accident--to get rid of excess/imbalanced iron from body?

This has to be your oddest theory to date. Forget "partial excitations", this one takes the cake.

ETA: Oh, I forgot to tell you. It was 100 years last month that Einstein showed that part excitations are wrong. So you're 100 years behind, and counting.

[MRC_Hans]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
"The body does not have a way to get rid of iron except when there is bleeding"

And where did you cut and paste that little piece of "wisdom"?

Nevermind, I can tell you it is wrong. Make an experiment, Kumar:

1) Go to your friendly local pharmacy and purchase some iron supplementary pills (don't worry, they are cheap and harmless).

3) Take three pills a day for a week.

4) During that time, note the color of your feces.

You will observe that your feces turns black, because your body is ridding itself of the surplus iron you took.

-- Next theory .

Hans