The Great Chicken Experiment.

LostAngeles · 18th April 2005, 02:07 PM

Last week, I had forgotten to take the chicken out of the refridgerator for dinner. Considering that I can't cook dinner on Mondays and Wednesdays due to class (see: post in lamma mathematician about Administration) and that chicken is only good for about a day to two days in the fridge, this was a bit of problem. So I thought to myself, as I took out the trash, "Ah. I'll just take out the newer one. It's less frozen. Wait a minute. What the hell does that mean?"

It doesn't make any sense. Both chickens had been in the freezer for more than three days. Therefore, one would figure that they were both frozen the same amount. However, part of me was insistant that the newer one was "less frozen."

I'm wrong somewhere. Either the chickens are not equally frozen or they are. I must test this and settle this once and for all. Since you're all so good at making protocols for tests, I implore your assistance.

I intend to purchase a package of skinless, boneless chicken breast filets on our next trip to Suck@ss Ralph's. I will wrap them in foil and place them in the freezer, noting the date, time, and weight and labeling it, "A." On the next trip, I will pick up another package of as close weight as possible and place that in the freezer, noting the date, time, and weight, and labeling it "B."

After about three days, I will take one out and place it in the fridge, noting the time and date. I will check it every so often to see when it has thawed. Then I will make a tasty dinner after noting the date and time. The same with the other.

That's the rough version. I'd like to be checking temperatures and all that to do the math with Newton's Law of Cooling (or if there's anything better). However, I don't think my meat thermometer's up to the task.

Can anyone help me revise this please?

fishbob · 18th April 2005, 07:01 PM

Sublimation.

The longer in the freezer, the more moisture vaporizes out - leading to freezer burn. Temps will be the same.

I look at 'less frozen' as 'less damaged by being in the freezer for a long time'. Although 3 days is not really long enough to tell the difference. Try 9 months or so.

richardm · 19th April 2005, 02:58 AM

Could there also be an argument for saying that some of the fats will not completely freeze and might oxidise (or go "off" in some way)?

melba · 19th April 2005, 12:36 PM

I think it would clarify things if you turned it around. Here's a question, which chicken would be "more frozen"

a. a chicken in the freezer for 24 hours
b. a chicken in the freezer for 2 hours

Well, obviously the 24 hour chicken is going to be more frozen, that is colder, than the 2 hour chicken.

Your question is really asking, at what point does a difference in time reflect a difference in the coldness of the chicken? Or when does the second chicken "catch up" to the first one in terms of coldness. Or--how long does it take for the freezer to freeze a chicken maximally.

LostAngeles · 19th April 2005, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by melba
I think it would clarify things if you turned it around. Here's a question, which chicken would be "more frozen"

a. a chicken in the freezer for 24 hours
b. a chicken in the freezer for 2 hours

Well, obviously the 24 hour chicken is going to be more frozen, that is colder, than the 2 hour chicken.

Your question is really asking, at what point does a difference in time reflect a difference in the coldness of the chicken? Or when does the second chicken "catch up" to the first one in terms of coldness. Or--how long does it take for the freezer to freeze a chicken maximally.

Yes, I was wondering if I should turn it around and go that route. That could work.

melba · 20th April 2005, 12:46 PM

You know, I was thinking about this and realized that this sort of research has probably already been done. I know that the USDA has done a ton of research on food for home canning; they've probably also got stuff about freezing as well.

LostAngeles · 20th April 2005, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by melba
You know, I was thinking about this and realized that this sort of research has probably already been done. I know that the USDA has done a ton of research on food for home canning; they've probably also got stuff about freezing as well.

Well the point is to do it myself, since that part of my brain is apparently resistant to being presuaded. That, and it'll amuse me to do so.

melba · 20th April 2005, 05:19 PM

You're right, I didn't mean to take your fun away. But if there's some baseline research, it might help you to narrow down what timespan to test (like by minutes, hours, days, etc.)

Would it make sense to start with water/ice first? That at least might be simpler to measure... its progression through various stages.

18th April 2005, 02:07 PM	#1
LostAngeles Anti-WM Jihadist Join Date: May 2004 Location: Having a cup of tea. Posts: 10,159	The Great Chicken Experiment. Last week, I had forgotten to take the chicken out of the refridgerator for dinner. Considering that I can't cook dinner on Mondays and Wednesdays due to class (see: post in lamma mathematician about Administration) and that chicken is only good for about a day to two days in the fridge, this was a bit of problem. So I thought to myself, as I took out the trash, "Ah. I'll just take out the newer one. It's less frozen. Wait a minute. What the hell does that mean?" It doesn't make any sense. Both chickens had been in the freezer for more than three days. Therefore, one would figure that they were both frozen the same amount. However, part of me was insistant that the newer one was "less frozen." I'm wrong somewhere. Either the chickens are not equally frozen or they are. I must test this and settle this once and for all. Since you're all so good at making protocols for tests, I implore your assistance. I intend to purchase a package of skinless, boneless chicken breast filets on our next trip to Suck@ss Ralph's. I will wrap them in foil and place them in the freezer, noting the date, time, and weight and labeling it, "A." On the next trip, I will pick up another package of as close weight as possible and place that in the freezer, noting the date, time, and weight, and labeling it "B." After about three days, I will take one out and place it in the fridge, noting the time and date. I will check it every so often to see when it has thawed. Then I will make a tasty dinner after noting the date and time. The same with the other. That's the rough version. I'd like to be checking temperatures and all that to do the math with Newton's Law of Cooling (or if there's anything better). However, I don't think my meat thermometer's up to the task. Can anyone help me revise this please?
	__________________ "There is also a likelihood that the settlement will fall between two biomes, potentially hazardous if the player expects a peaceful oceanside meadow, without realizing the ocean is full of amphibious zombie whales." - Dwarf Fortress Wik

18th April 2005, 07:01 PM	#2
fishbob Seasonally Disaffected Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chilly Undieville Posts: 5,667	Sublimation. The longer in the freezer, the more moisture vaporizes out - leading to freezer burn. Temps will be the same. I look at 'less frozen' as 'less damaged by being in the freezer for a long time'. Although 3 days is not really long enough to tell the difference. Try 9 months or so.
	__________________ When you believe in things you don't understand, then you suffer . . . " - Stevie Wonder "Stupidity - a callow indifference to facts or data" - Stuart Firestein -neuroscientist. I hate bigots.

19th April 2005, 02:58 AM	#3
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,270	Could there also be an argument for saying that some of the fats will not completely freeze and might oxidise (or go "off" in some way)?
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,270	__________________ Rimmer: Look at her! Magnificent woman! Very prim, very proper, almost austere. Some people took her for cold, thought she was aloof. Not a bit of it. She just despised fools. Quite tragic, really, because otherwise I think we'd have got on famously.

19th April 2005, 12:36 PM	#4
melba New Blood Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 19	I think it would clarify things if you turned it around. Here's a question, which chicken would be "more frozen" a. a chicken in the freezer for 24 hours b. a chicken in the freezer for 2 hours Well, obviously the 24 hour chicken is going to be more frozen, that is colder, than the 2 hour chicken. Your question is really asking, at what point does a difference in time reflect a difference in the coldness of the chicken? Or when does the second chicken "catch up" to the first one in terms of coldness. Or--how long does it take for the freezer to freeze a chicken maximally.
melba New Blood Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 19

19th April 2005, 01:32 PM	#5
LostAngeles Anti-WM Jihadist Join Date: May 2004 Location: Having a cup of tea. Posts: 10,159	Quote: Originally posted by melba I think it would clarify things if you turned it around. Here's a question, which chicken would be "more frozen" a. a chicken in the freezer for 24 hours b. a chicken in the freezer for 2 hours Well, obviously the 24 hour chicken is going to be more frozen, that is colder, than the 2 hour chicken. Your question is really asking, at what point does a difference in time reflect a difference in the coldness of the chicken? Or when does the second chicken "catch up" to the first one in terms of coldness. Or--how long does it take for the freezer to freeze a chicken maximally. Yes, I was wondering if I should turn it around and go that route. That could work.
	__________________ "There is also a likelihood that the settlement will fall between two biomes, potentially hazardous if the player expects a peaceful oceanside meadow, without realizing the ocean is full of amphibious zombie whales." - Dwarf Fortress Wik

20th April 2005, 12:46 PM	#6
melba New Blood Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 19	You know, I was thinking about this and realized that this sort of research has probably already been done. I know that the USDA has done a ton of research on food for home canning; they've probably also got stuff about freezing as well.
melba New Blood Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 19

20th April 2005, 01:48 PM	#7
LostAngeles Anti-WM Jihadist Join Date: May 2004 Location: Having a cup of tea. Posts: 10,159	Quote: Originally posted by melba You know, I was thinking about this and realized that this sort of research has probably already been done. I know that the USDA has done a ton of research on food for home canning; they've probably also got stuff about freezing as well. Well the point is to do it myself, since that part of my brain is apparently resistant to being presuaded. That, and it'll amuse me to do so.
	__________________ "There is also a likelihood that the settlement will fall between two biomes, potentially hazardous if the player expects a peaceful oceanside meadow, without realizing the ocean is full of amphibious zombie whales." - Dwarf Fortress Wik

20th April 2005, 05:19 PM	#8
melba New Blood Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 19	You're right, I didn't mean to take your fun away. But if there's some baseline research, it might help you to narrow down what timespan to test (like by minutes, hours, days, etc.) Would it make sense to start with water/ice first? That at least might be simpler to measure... its progression through various stages.
melba New Blood Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 19