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Old 26th May 2005, 05:43 AM   #161
LAL
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That really blows. If your honestly pursuing a scientific objective, keeping your nose clean and staying objective. Doing this kind of research should enhance your career.

But, we are dealing with emotional, irrational humans here. That’s why I maintain that only a specimen will convince most people.



Krantz was disliked by many in the "Bigfoot community" for advocating killing one in order to convince science.
He spent much of his free time trying to do that.



I thought it was 6,ooo years ago.



+/- 4000 years. 6000 was Bishop Ussher's dating. Some YECers don't accept it.




Hey hey HEY! No cracks about Batboy! Batboy's da bomb!



I apologize to Batboy and his little dog too.


Well, you can always tell when a debunker has gone too far, it’s when their probable explanation is far more complex than the fantastic explanation.



Applying Occam's Razor:


http://www.hancockhouse.com/products/pdfs/LocalsSC.pdf



I would guess that if the tracks were the work of a hoaxer than it was the same hoaxer twenty years apart. Unusual to say the least but not impossible. Otherwise I’d have to admit that I don’t know how the various tracks seem to be made by the same individual over many years—It could be a real animal.



Jimmy Chilcutt found this compelling. It wasn't the same animal but they were the same type of ridges. Chilcutt was sceptical to begin with, BTW. He called Meldrum to see if he could be of assistance.
Chilcutt is the only expert on primate prints.
In the case of Bluff Creek, three or four individuals were identifiable by their prints.



I’m actually quite astounded that plaster casts of footprints could produce dermal ridges at all, even in mud.



Not to mention sweat pores. (They're irregular in shape, not to be confused with air bubbles.) Krantz showed some of them to DR. Tim White. Plaster isn't the most sensitive material and not all casts show them, nor were they noticed right away.
The Skookum Cast shows hair imprints and friction ridges on the heel. They had a good supply of casting compound on hand, but came close to running out before the impression was filled.
That cast and the opinion of the top primate anatomist in the country should have settled the matter, but it didn't. [/b][/quote]
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Old 26th May 2005, 05:48 AM   #162
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Chilcutt's report on Elkins Creek:


http://www.rfthomas.clara.net/papers/elkins.html
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Old 26th May 2005, 07:37 AM   #163
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Quote:
Originally posted by LAL
Do you honestly think professors of anatomy are so stupid they can't spot a fake?
It would seem that any number of people don't consider the opinion of an anatomy professor the final word.


Quote:
Originally posted by LAL
That cast and the opinion of the top primate anatomist in the country should have settled the matter, but it didn't.

Surely you aren't suggesting that experts have never been fooled by hoaxes?
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Old 26th May 2005, 08:28 AM   #164
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Originally posted by LAL


Krantz was disliked by many in the "Bigfoot community" for advocating killing one in order to convince science.
He spent much of his free time trying to do that.



I dislike the idea. Personally some really good “duck blind” photographs would convince me, so long as the people and the photos can be vetted properly. The fact that such a thing seems impossible is suggestive to me that this is mostly a sociological phenomena, much like UFOs. In fact, to my way of thinking; Bigfoot testimony sounds so similar to UFO accounts that I often wonder if same mechanism might not be at work (whatever that may be.)

Of course a body would settle the matter, better yet; a live specimen.

BTW, just as a personal aside. I have some friends who take boy scouts camping in a Florida forest. Last year they reported hearing strange howling, not unlike monkey sounds. This year I’m either going to tag along or send a digital recorder and ask them to run the thing all night to see what shows up. But, it’s probably escaped chimps or something like that.

The skunk-ape stories com up occasionally. They always seem fishy as all get-out or delusional, never falsifiable or verifiable so not scientific.
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Old 26th May 2005, 08:39 AM   #165
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Originally posted by The Odd Emperor
BTW, just as a personal aside. I have some friends who take boy scouts camping in a Florida forest. Last year they reported hearing strange howling, not unlike monkey sounds. This year I’m either going to tag along or send a digital recorder and ask them to run the thing all night to see what shows up. But, it’s probably escaped chimps or something like that. [/b]
Not sure where you're located, Sr. Emperor, but I know in my area there are plenty of odd noises normal critters make in the night that could be confused with a monkey by Boy Scouts. Coyotes howls, owl hoots, bird calls... even 'coons could be confused for a monkey.

I did the scout thing for a while, and a group of boys at night in the woods can imagine almost anything. Listen to a new scout recently back from a "snipe hunt" if ye doubt.
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Old 26th May 2005, 09:22 AM   #166
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Do you honestly think professors of anatomy are so stupid they can't spot a fake?
Yes.

There are plenty of examples of scientists failing to spot hoaxes and frauds.

Plenty of learned folk endorse all kinds of woo-woo nonsense.

It's hardly unusual.

We even have woo-woo being taught & studied at universities.

Aren't there professors who disagree with Krantz?

Drawing the bones on the cast is just wrong.

It's like drawing the ghost on the ghost photo.
Without help, no one can find the ghost in the picture.
As soon as you draw the ghost in for them, everybody can see it.
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Old 26th May 2005, 09:37 AM   #167
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Originally posted by delphi_ote
Not sure where you're located, Sr. Emperor, but I know in my area there are plenty of odd noises normal critters make in the night that could be confused with a monkey by Boy Scouts. Coyotes howls, owl hoots, bird calls... even 'coons could be confused for a monkey.

I did the scout thing for a while, and a group of boys at night in the woods can imagine almost anything. Listen to a new scout recently back from a "snipe hunt" if ye doubt.
Haruph! I could hardly be mistaken for one of the eques!

I’m located a few inches from my left ear. Obviously the people in question were camping in a Florida forest, the Ocala National Forest I think.

I myself have done lots of backpacking and heard normal critter sounds, raccoons, pigs etc. Coons make a very distinctive sound. But the scouts didn’t tell me about this, it was the *scout councilors.* And they don’t believe in snipes or Bigfoot for that matter. But there are monkeys and probably even apes running around the Florida woods, and many other exotics.
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Old 26th May 2005, 09:39 AM   #168
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http://www.n2.net/prey/bigfoot/articles/skeptical.htm

Lots of interesting info here.

Quote:
After an eight-month effort, I was able to talk with Parker, then living on the East Coast. He told me the footprint was a fake. He knew this because he had made the imprint and the cast! Originally he had intended only to see if Krantz could, as he bragged, "differentiate between [a track] made artificially or naturally." Parker said he now feels the thing has gone too far and regrets he made the [Bloomington] track. I asked how it had been made. "It took about twenty minutes to form the print in the mud," he said. The dermal ridges came from his foot and hands, placed in areas where the "least amount of wear or abrasion would occur." What about the "two traits"? "Oh," Parker replied, "I wasn't sure about that. I thought they might be toenails and scars, so I added both." Parker also told me he made "the ball of the foot appear deeper near the inside of the foot to simulate the weight-bearing area during a light push-off." At the last minute, he embedded the shell of an American black walnut where the fifth toe would have been to make the print look more realistic.(12)
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Old 26th May 2005, 10:12 AM   #169
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Quote:
Originally posted by LTC8K6
http://www.n2.net/prey/bigfoot/articles/skeptical.htm

Lots of interesting info here.
What's interesting (IMO), is that your link is found at the 3rd hit when googling with keyword ' bigfoot '..


I wonder how this escaped the scrutiny of someone who is really interested in objective information rather than confirming their foregone conclusion/s and filtering out contrary findings?
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Old 26th May 2005, 10:23 AM   #170
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Originally posted by The Odd Emperor



I dislike the idea. Personally some really good “duck blind” photographs would convince me, so long as the people and the photos can be vetted properly. The fact that such a thing seems impossible is suggestive to me that this is mostly a sociological phenomena, much like UFOs. In fact, to my way of thinking; Bigfoot testimony sounds so similar to UFO accounts that I often wonder if same mechanism might not be at work (whatever that may be.)



UFO's don't, to my knowlege, leave tracks, hair and scat or feed on hibernating Golden Mantled Ground Squirrels or Willow leaves.

Quote:


Of course a body would settle the matter, better yet; a live specimen.

BTW, just as a personal aside. I have some friends who take boy scouts camping in a Florida forest. Last year they reported hearing strange howling, not unlike monkey sounds. This year I’m either going to tag along or send a digital recorder and ask them to run the thing all night to see what shows up. But, it’s probably escaped chimps or something like that.


Check all the zoos for reports of escaped Chimps, did you?
Alleged Sasquatch calls don't match with Chimps, or any other known mammal. They've been analyzed at Texas A&M.

http://www.texasbigfoot.com/cc_caller1.html


I heard a similar story first hand from South Carolina.
Quote:

The skunk-ape stories com up occasionally. They always seem fishy as all get-out or delusional, never falsifiable or verifiable so not scientific.
There seems to be an active faker on some of it, but that's not to say he couldn't have been inspired by real events, as Wallace was.
It's possible there are subspecies.
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Old 26th May 2005, 10:43 AM   #171
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Originally posted by The Odd Emperor
I myself have done lots of backpacking and heard normal critter sounds, raccoons, pigs etc. Coons make a very distinctive sound. But the scouts didn’t tell me about this, it was the *scout councilors.* And they don’t believe in snipes or Bigfoot for that matter. But there are monkeys and probably even apes running around the Florida woods, and many other exotics.
Don't forget humans. Sometimes humans just out of sight of scout troops make very exotic noises in the night. At least they did years and years ago when I was 13. Be sure to take roll call when strange noises appear.
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Old 26th May 2005, 10:46 AM   #172
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Originally posted by Diogenes
It would seem that any number of people don't consider the opinion of an anatomy professor the final word.
Dr. Daris Swindler, professor emeritus, U of W, is a giant in the field of primate anatomy. He was a sceptic for thirty years, until he examined the Skookum Cast.

In health care, for instance, would you rather have the opinion of an acknowleged expert in oncology or that of some guy who drove by the hospital and didn't notice anything wrong?


Quote:
Surely you aren't suggesting that experts have never been fooled by hoaxes?

Dr. Grover Krantz was somewhat fooled by one, as has been already explained. According to Noll, this was no amateur job; he was fooled by an expert. This in no way invalidates his work overall.
There are other casts from east of the Rockies that are deemed authentic.


"Exposing hoaxes is as much a part of this effort as establishing the credibility of other evidence." - Dr. Jeffery Meldrum

Meldrum exposed Snow walker, as I've already mentioned.
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Old 26th May 2005, 10:49 AM   #173
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Originally posted by LAL
[b]Dr. Daris Swindler, professor emeritus, University of Washington, is a giant in the field of primate anatomy. He was a sceptic for thirty years, until he examined the Skookum Cast.

In health care, for instance, would you rather have the opinion of an acknowleged expert in oncology or that of some guy who drove by the hospital and didn't notice anything wrong?





Dr. Grover Krantz was somewhat fooled by one, as has been already explained. According to Noll, this was no amateur job; he was fooled by an expert. This in no way invalidates his work overall. Einstein made mistakes too.
There are other casts from east of the Rockies that are deemed authentic.


"Exposing hoaxes is as much a part of this effort as establishing the credibility of other evidence." - Dr. Jeffery Meldrum

Meldrum exposed Snow walker, as I've already mentioned.
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Old 26th May 2005, 10:51 AM   #174
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Originally posted by LAL
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Old 26th May 2005, 10:53 AM   #175
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Got glitch trouble again. I don't know what's going on.
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Old 26th May 2005, 10:54 AM   #176
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Originally posted by LAL


Alleged Sasquatch calls don't match with Chimps, or any other known mammal. They've been analyzed at Texas A&M.

http://www.texasbigfoot.com/cc_caller1.html


Do you even bother to read your own sources?

There is nothing there that rules out chimps or any other known mammal...

Quote:
"This is a mammal, at least we suspect," he said. "We're still analyzing that."

"There is a whole range of things that it might possibly be," he said. "In all possibilities, there is the possibility that this could be human."


"We have recordings but what the source might be, we don't know," he said. "It is evidence but it might be negative evidence."


Do you have anything that actually supports your position?
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Old 26th May 2005, 10:59 AM   #177
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Originally posted by LAL
Dr. Daris Swindler, professor emeritus, U of W, is a giant in the field of primate anatomy. He was a sceptic for thirty years, until he examined the Skookum Cast.

And never makes mistakes.. I'm convinced..


In health care, for instance, would you rather have the opinion of an acknowleged expert in oncology or that of some guy who drove by the hospital and didn't notice anything wrong?


And this has what, exactly, to do with the veracity of Bigfoot tales?


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Old 26th May 2005, 11:03 AM   #178
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Originally posted by Diogenes
What's interesting (IMO), is that your link is found at the 3rd hit when googling with keyword ' bigfoot '..


I wonder how this escaped the scrutiny of someone who is really interested in objective information

It didn't. I read it when it was first published. I saved it in Favorites over a year ago.

Quote:

rather than confirming their foregone conclusion/s and filtering out contrary findings?
Interesting how the rebuttals seem to get missed.
This review has been removed from the site I found it on, hopefully for inclusion in a book.

Jeffery Meldrum:

"Daegling’s entire assessment of the incidents involving Paul Freeman appears to be largely
filtered through the smoked lens of Michael Dennett. The numerous problems alluded to by Daegling lie not
with the tracks but with the decidedly skewed interpretations of the tracks. With all due respect to the reputed
tracking prowess of Joel Hardin, his mind was made up prior to the event; he interpreted the tracks as if they
were man tracks. In most points of his objection the apparent contradictions are precisely what should have
been expected based on the distinctive style of walking surmised for the sasquatch, based on other tracks and
eyewitness accounts. Krantz deals with Hardin’s points head-on in his book and I discussed them at length
indirectly with Hardin. Dennett is again cited as a source for Dahinden’s claim that tracks were left a
nonsequential series, with two left feet in succession – an apparently damning situation, if true. Dahinden
corrected this bit of misrepresentation when I questioned him on it. His sarcastic comment, indiscriminately
reported by Dennett, that one couldn’t tell a right foot from a left, and there appeared to be “two left feet” was
baseless. Further distortions by Dennett include the often repeated claim that Freeman admitted to faking
footprints. In reality Freeman stated that he had experimented in his backyard to determine what would be
required, if it was even possible, to fake a convincing Bigfoot track. In that case, I guess I am guilty of hoaxing
Bigfoot tracks, as well as any other serious-minded researcher who has done his homework. As for the rumor
that Freeman worked at an orthopedic shoe company -- as best I can determine there is no substance to it; let
Dennett reveal his “anonymous sources.”
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Old 26th May 2005, 11:06 AM   #179
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Originally posted by Diogenes
It has to do with taking the word of experts who have actually examined the evidence over that of people who don't actually know what they're talking about.
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Old 26th May 2005, 11:10 AM   #180
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Originally posted by Diogenes
Quote function isn't working for me. Exasperating!

Dr. Esteban Sarmiento, functional anatomist with the Museum of Natural History in New York reached the same conclusion. Neither of these guys found their Phd's in a Cracker Jack box.
What evidence do you have that they are mistaken?
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Old 26th May 2005, 11:19 AM   #181
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It has to do with taking the word of experts who have actually examined the evidence over that of people who don't actually know what they're talking about.
Like Dr. Robert Benson at Texas A&M University ?
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Old 26th May 2005, 11:22 AM   #182
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Originally posted by Diogenes
Do you even bother to read your own sources?






Of course. The story is about the making of the documentary, which I own on tape and DVD.

Quote:


There is nothing there that rules out chimps or any other known mammal...




The conclusions on the show are as stated. They compared the calls even to African animals. By comparison to human sounds they were able to determine they're primate.


Do you have anything that actually supports your position? [/b][/quote]

Do you have thirty bucks to spend on the DVD?

https://secure19.activehost.com/lege...px?productID=2
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Old 26th May 2005, 11:24 AM   #183
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Originally posted by LAL


Of course. The story is about the making of the documentary, which I own on tape and DVD.


[/b]


The conclusions on the show are as stated. They compared the calls even to African animals. By comparison to human sounds they were able to determine they're primate.

Quote:
Do you have anything that actually supports your position?
Do you have thirty bucks to spend on the DVD?

https://secure19.activehost.com/lege...px?productID=2 [/b]
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Old 26th May 2005, 11:26 AM   #184
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Originally posted by Diogenes
Like Dr. Robert Benson at Texas A&M University ?
He's not who I had in mind.
And what, if I may ask, is your area of expertise?
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Old 26th May 2005, 11:27 AM   #185
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UFO's don't, to my knowlege, leave tracks, hair and scat or feed on hibernating Golden Mantled Ground Squirrels or Willow leaves.
No but they do have a similar emotional impact with many witnesses. They are fleeting, they leave very little physical evidence. Most of the photographs of UFOs are of very low quality and questionable pedigree. People sometimes report a feeling of oppression or of being watched. Animals seem to react very strongly around UFOs. They appear mostly benign. There are a number of parallels including a few “sexual abduction tales.”

Also, I believe there have been one or two Bigfoot/UFO combo events. (No citation, I remember reading about them years ago.)

Quote:
Originally posted by LAL

Check all the zoos for reports of escaped Chimps, did you?
Alleged Sasquatch calls don't match with Chimps, or any other known mammal. They've been analyzed at Texas A&M.
Ah no, do I need to?

I was thinking more of pets escaping. I’ve seen chimps in homes on at least one occasion around the West Florida region. There are at least three major primate collections in the Tampa Bay Area alone, I don’t know how many might be in the university research facilities of Gainesville or Tampa. But that’s all supposition and has little to do with my friend's story or Bigfoot.

re http://www.api4animals.org/381.htm

Of course there is this…
http://cryptozoo.monstrous.com/the_skunk_ape.htm

Quote:
Originally posted by LAL


There seems to be an active faker on some of it, but that's not to say he couldn't have been inspired by real events, as Wallace was. It's possible there are subspecies.

Possible; I remember back in the 1970s there was this fellow running around the woods south of Tampa, he was a post graduate student or some such. Claimed to have spent the night up in a tree with a skunk ape. There was a write-up in the Saint Petersburg Times about him. I’ll have to find it someday.
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Old 26th May 2005, 11:32 AM   #186
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Quote:
Originally posted by LAL
Quote function isn't working for me. Exasperating!

Dr. Esteban Sarmiento, functional anatomist with the Museum of Natural History in New York reached the same conclusion. Neither of these guys found their Phd's in a Cracker Jack box.
What evidence do you have that they are mistaken?
http://www.bfro.net/LMS/LMS.asp


" The nation's top primate anatomist, Dr. Daris Swindler of Washington State Univeristy examines the Skookum Cast, along with prominent primatologist Dr. Esteban Sarmiento of the American Museum of Natural History in New York City, and anthropologist Dr. Jeff Meldrum of Idaho State University, give their conclusions about the Skookum cast, and what it points to.
"

Where can I find their conclusions without buying the DVD ?

I notice they also source the conclusions of Dr. Benson...


Are their conclusions about the foot prints, as staggering as those of Dr. Benson, regarding the recordings?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"This is a mammal, at least we suspect," he said. "We're still analyzing that."

"There is a whole range of things that it might possibly be," he said. "In all possibilities, there is the possibility that this could be human."


"We have recordings but what the source might be, we don't know," he said. "It is evidence but it might be negative evidence."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Old 26th May 2005, 11:36 AM   #187
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Quote:
Originally posted by LAL
He's not who I had in mind.
And what, if I may ask, is your area of expertise?
I'm not claiming any, or pointing to that of others..


What is yours, besides name dropping?
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Old 26th May 2005, 11:44 AM   #188
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From the site wanting $30 of my money...


http://www.bfro.net/LMS/LMS.asp

Quote:
There is now scientific proof for the existence of a giant primate species in North America -- a species fitting the descriptions of sasquatches (bigfoots).

Methinks someone has no idea what ' Scientific proof ' really is...


Hint: It has nothing to do with conjecture by any number of sources, with copius capital letters after their names.

One of my favorites..

Quote:
DNA expert Dr. Craig Newton from BC Research in Canada attempts to extract DNA from hair samples and saliva taken from the Skookum Cast site. He explains the potential and problems with DNA analysis.
Translation: " I didn't find anything conclusive. "
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Old 26th May 2005, 11:52 AM   #189
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Odd Emperor
No but they do have a similar emotional impact with many witnesses. They are fleeting, they leave very little physical evidence. Most of the photographs of UFOs are of very low quality and questionable pedigree. People sometimes report a feeling of oppression or of being watched. Animals seem to react very strongly around UFOs. They appear mostly benign. There are a number of parallels including a few “sexual abduction tales.”


I recently talked with a woman who's seen things she can't explain in the sky around an AFB near her. She thinks the aliens know she's there. I think she's seeing things she can't explain.

Quote:

Also, I believe there have been one or two Bigfoot/UFO combo events. (No citation, I remember reading about them years ago.)


Green reported some in one of his books with a wish there were no such reports.

Quote:

Ah no, do I need to?



In the interests of verification, why not?

Quote:

I was thinking more of pets escaping. I’ve seen chimps in homes on at least one occasion around the West Florida region. There are at least three major primate collections in the Tampa Bay Area alone, I don’t know how many might be in the university research facilities of Gainesville or Tampa. But that’s all supposition and has little to do with my friend's story or Bigfoot.

re http://www.api4animals.org/381.htm


Do bad he didn't record it. I heard a hair-raising call I couldn't identify once, but I can't rule out elk.


Quote:

Of course there is this…
http://cryptozoo.monstrous.com/the_skunk_ape.htm


Possible; I remember back in the 1970s there was this fellow running around the woods south of Tampa, he was a post graduate student or some such. Claimed to have spent the night up in a tree with a skunk ape. There was a write-up in the Saint Petersburg Times about him. I’ll have to find it someday.
There are quite a few reports from Florida, some Class A.

http://www.bfro.net/GDB/state_listing.asp?state=fl


If the moderator's here, please remove the superfluous posts of mine that keep showing up. I've tried e-mailing twice about it and have only received a reply from MAILER DAEMON.
Thanks.
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Old 26th May 2005, 12:01 PM   #190
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diogenes
http://www.bfro.net/LMS/LMS.asp


" The nation's top primate anatomist, Dr. Daris Swindler of Washington State Univeristy examines the Skookum Cast, along with prominent primatologist Dr. Esteban Sarmiento of the American Museum of Natural History in New York City, and anthropologist Dr. Jeff Meldrum of Idaho State University, give their conclusions about the Skookum cast, and what it points to.
"

Where can I find their conclusions without buying the DVD ?

I notice they also source the conclusions of Dr. Benson...


Are their conclusions about the foot prints, as staggering as those of Dr. Benson, regarding the recordings?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"This is a mammal, at least we suspect," he said. "We're still analyzing that."

"There is a whole range of things that it might possibly be," he said. "In all possibilities, there is the possibility that this could be human."


"We have recordings but what the source might be, we don't know," he said. "It is evidence but it might be negative evidence."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Well, if you consider Jimmy Chilcutt staking his reputation on it staggering, yes.


This is the best I can do right now. As Green noted, the story never got beyond Denver. I have the link to the Post, but the story is no longer coming up. This is an accurate reprint, however.

http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_article.asp?id=328


Dr. Benson is a sceptic, BTW, so the fact that he finally did an analysis is pretty staggering. They looked at the possibility of something such as a siren, as well.
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Old 26th May 2005, 12:23 PM   #191
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Quote:
Let me know when you have some actual evidence.
I didn't claim to have evidence. I'm trying to think up alternative explanations. Do you think it is impossible that a person made those tracks, or just highly unlikely. Are there any pictures of the area from a broader perspective?
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Old 26th May 2005, 12:26 PM   #192
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Do you realize dropping names, with quotes such as this:

Quote:
Nevertheless, Goodall is intrigued.
Is nothing short of laughable..

You sourced achoustic expert Dr. Benson, and now suggest that because he agreed to analyze a recording, it is 'proof' of something other than the fact that he makes a living analyzing recordings...

Hello! He didn't find anything !


Why can't I find out what the conclusions of Dr.'s Swindler & Sarmiento are/ were without buying your DVD?

Surely they didn't fail to publish their earth shattering findings?
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Old 26th May 2005, 12:32 PM   #193
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Staking your reputation has no bearing on whether or not you are correct.

I really find the Skookum Cast hilarious and I can't believe anybody takes it seriously. People who reference it lose credibility with me. It is absolutely ridiculous imo.

As usual with these woo-woo claims, when you really start to look at the evidence, it's nowhere near as convincing as we are led to believe.
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Old 26th May 2005, 12:38 PM   #194
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diogenes
From the site wanting $30 of my money...


http://www.bfro.net/LMS/LMS.asp



Plus shipping & handling, but only if you want the DVD. It aired on the Discovery Channel originally.
The BFRO would like to be able to fund a couple of full time investigators in the field, but since there are no grants forthcoming they must certainly be faulted for selling things on the website with intent to raise money for further investigation.
So far, it's been people going out on their own time and their own dime.

Quote:


Methinks someone has no idea what ' Scientific proof ' really is...


Hint: It has nothing to do with conjecture by any number of sources, with copius capital letters after their names.



It has to do with empirical evidence. As yet there is no corpus.
Conclusions drawn by qualified people after examination of the evidence is quite acceptable in most fields.
Oh, wait! Maybe I should stop believing in atoms! And gravity! And the Big Bang!

Quote:



Translation: " I didn't find anything conclusive. "
Translation: Contamination can't be ruled out.
(That can occur at the manufacturering end.)
Actual tissue is needed.
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Old 26th May 2005, 12:45 PM   #195
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Quote:
Originally posted by LTC8K6
Staking your reputation has no bearing on whether or not you are correct.

I really find the Skookum Cast hilarious and I can't believe anybody takes it seriously. People who reference it lose credibility with me. It is absolutely ridiculous imo.

As usual with these woo-woo claims, when you really start to look at the evidence, it's nowhere near as convincing as we are led to believe.
Chilcutt is a top forensic fingerprint expert. Can you find an opinion that refutes him?
Having never seen the cast and having no credentials in any field related to primatology, as far as I can tell, you think armchair scoffing contributes to the debate?
I can't say you've lost any credibility with me; I didn't see any to begin with.
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Old 26th May 2005, 12:50 PM   #196
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I actually started reading this sight and it is hillarious..


http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_article.asp?id=328

I mentioned the ' dropping ' of Scientist's names.. Along with Goodall..

GEORGE SCHALLER
"I think a hard-eyed look is absolutely essential," he concludes. ( but doesn't volunteer.. )

ESTEBAN SARMIENTO

"I think a serious scientific inquiry is definitely warranted." ( ... just not by me.. )


RUSSELL MITTERMEIER

"I guess you could say I'm mildly skeptical but guardedly optimistic. Whoever does find it will have the discovery of the century." ( I wish them luck, but I've been heavily funded in other areas ... )
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Old 26th May 2005, 01:00 PM   #197
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diogenes
Do you realize dropping names, with quotes such as this:

Nevertheless, Goodall is intrigued.

Is nothing short of laughable..



Do you want the link to the interview where she makes her position clear?

Quote:

You sourced achoustic expert Dr. Benson, and now suggest that because he agreed to analyze a recording, it is 'proof' of something other than the fact that he makes a living analyzing recordings...

Hello! He didn't find anything




He found out what it isn't.
Did you note the analysis was still in progress when the story was written?

Quote:

Why can't I find out what the conclusions of Dr.'s Swindler & Sarmiento are/ were without buying your DVD?



Maybe you could borrow one. Or request one at your local library.

Quote:

Surely they didn't fail to publish their earth shattering findings?
I certainly wish they had. SWindler was in poor health at the time of the Willow Creek 2003 Symposium.
Sarmiento may devote some time to it when he's finished with the Bili Ape project.

Do you think you could manage to hold the sarcasm until you learn to spell"acoustic"?
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Old 26th May 2005, 01:00 PM   #198
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Quote:
Originally posted by LAL
Chilcutt is a top forensic fingerprint expert. Can you find an opinion that refutes him?
Refutes what? " That he believes a cast he examined was not made by a human ? "



Or were you thinking of something else?
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Old 26th May 2005, 01:01 PM   #199
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Quote:
Originally posted by LAL


Do you want the link to the interview where she makes her position clear?


[/b]


He found out what it isn't.
Did you note the analysis was still in progress when the story was written?


[/b]

Maybe you could borrow one. Or request one at your local library.



I certainly wish they had. Swindler was in poor health at the time of the Willow Creek 2003 Symposium.
Sarmiento may devote some time to it when he's finished with the Bili Ape project.

Do you think you could manage to hold the sarcasm until you learn to spell"acoustic"? [/b]
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Old 26th May 2005, 01:07 PM   #200
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diogenes
Refutes what? " That he believes a cast he examined was not made by a human ? "



Or were you thinking of something else?

Meldrum's collection is open for examination by serious investigators. Do you have an opinion by another forensic fingerprint expert refuting Chilcutt's findings? Flawss in his methodology? Anything? His opinion made the National Geographic. It's not some well-kept trade secret. Has anyone come forward with an examination that proves his conclusions are in error?
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