Karla Homolka

TruthSeeker · 31st May 2005, 06:58 PM

On July 4 (or thereabouts) one of Canada's most notorious killers will be released from prison.

For those who don't know, here is a detailed account of Karla Homolka and Paul Bernardo

In synopsis, she and her husband killed at least three young girls (one of them her sister). Two were held as sexslaves and raped repeatedly for several days before they were killed. They videotaped the sexual assaults and Karla was an active participant. The murders were not videotaped and it is not clear who did the actual killing.

Importantly, Karla made a deal to serve 12 years for her crimes. In Canada, this is referred to as "the deal with the devil".

Regardless, this is the deal she was given and she has served her time.

The question now is whether restrictions can be placed on her once she is released into the community.

According to the Premier of Ontario and others there is a high risk for reoffense. article

Apparently, she has shown no remorse nor accepted any responsibility for her crimes.

And yet, she has served her time. Should she be given a chance to rebuild her life? She is only 35. She has her whole life ahead of her.

I am hoping this thread will trigger a reasoned discussion. I am not capable of that. Her husband was the bogey-man of my young adulthood. He raped women getting off buses in the neighbourhood where my bestfriend, exboyfriend and he all lived. He (and possibly she) are rumoured to be behind the death of a girl I knew in school (not enough evidence). I have a strong visceral reaction to the idea of her living a full happy life when she ended or shattered so many. So, I'd like to know what you think...

Grammatron · 31st May 2005, 08:00 PM

I think it's a shame she wasn't tried in Texas.

corplinx · 31st May 2005, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Grammatron
I think it's a shame she wasn't tried in Texas.

No no, only retards and minorities get the chair in Texas, don't you read moveon.org?

TruthSeeker · 31st May 2005, 08:14 PM

Given that we don't have a death penalty and she has served her time, what should we do with her?

Should she be free? Should she have restrictions like a curfew, checking in with parole officers and restraining orders to stay away from the women she procured for her husband?

She is not on parole. She has served her full sentence.

H3LL · 31st May 2005, 08:24 PM

She was charged with manslaughter.

I don't know your local laws, but will she be "on licence" for the rest of her life?

The mean spirited might suggest sending her some complementary tickets to a big local sporting event.

*cough* Homolka *cough* 24B *cough*.

TragicMonkey · 31st May 2005, 10:02 PM

Perhaps a book deal, with subsequent talk show circuit, and then she'll be a wealthy woman, proving that life is horrendously unfair.

TruthSeeker · 1st June 2005, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by H3LL
She was charged with manslaughter.

I don't know your local laws, but will she be "on licence" for the rest of her life?

The mean spirited might suggest sending her some complementary tickets to a big local sporting event.

*cough* Homolka *cough* 24B *cough*.

I think - and I am far from an authority - that because she has served her full time and was not convicted of murder or a sex crime that she would not ordinarily be subjected to limitations on her freedom. That's why there is a special hearing tomorrow to argue that her circumstances (high risk of reoffending, sexual crimes against teens) require that such limitations be imposed.

The vigilante fantasy is certainly floating around. She reportedly is "nervous" and has dyed/changed her hair and lost weight to change her appearance.

TruthSeeker · 1st June 2005, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TragicMonkey
Perhaps a book deal, with subsequent talk show circuit, and then she'll be a wealthy woman, proving that life is horrendously unfair.

I think that in Canada people convicted of a crime (but it might just be murder? anyone know for sure?) are not allowed to profit from the crime. This came into effect when Clifford Olsen, a serial killer, was making money by selling his story.

Charlie Monoxide · 1st June 2005, 06:34 AM

Don't forget without the "deal with the devil" they probably would not have been able to convict her husband Paul. She was instrumental in revealing the whereabouts of the video tapes.

The big question is did she have share the same responsibility for the murders as Paul? Was she a victim (as her lawyer tried to portray her in court)?

I read a couple of pulpish books that came out. Both authors implied she was not only responsible but probably instigated the murders. They had no hard evidence.

The bottom line is that we sometimes have to make deals that disgust us. Just because she showed no remorse or rehabilitation, there's not much we can do.

Charlie (wait for her to re-offend?) Monoxide

Lisa Simpson · 1st June 2005, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Charlie Monoxide
The bottom line is that we sometimes have to make deals that disgust us. Just because she showed no remorse or rehabilitation, there's not much we can do.

Charlie (wait for her to re-offend?) Monoxide

I agree with Charlie. There's not much that can be done. She served her time, even though it was ridiculously short for the crimes committed.

Do sex offenders have to register in Canada?

TruthSeeker · 1st June 2005, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Charlie Monoxide
Don't forget without the "deal with the devil" they probably would not have been able to convict her husband Paul. She was instrumental in revealing the whereabouts of the video tapes.

The big question is did she have share the same responsibility for the murders as Paul? Was she a victim (as her lawyer tried to portray her in court)?

I read a couple of pulpish books that came out. Both authors implied she was not only responsible but probably instigated the murders. They had no hard evidence.

The bottom line is that we sometimes have to make deals that disgust us. Just because she showed no remorse or rehabilitation, there's not much we can do.

Charlie (wait for her to re-offend?) Monoxide

Hi Charlie,
It was his lawyer that revealed the tapes, not her. Bernardo did this to show the extent of Karla's involvement - it was part of his defence.

In the Star yesterday, www.thestar.com (but you have to register), they wrote about her distress at the tapes being discovered. This was because the tapes included her sister and another Jane Doe being raped by Karla and Paul.

She is the height of all psychopaths. The whole "victim" thing is a ruse. She lured the girls, she participated with "pleasure", she did not save the girls' lives when she had ample opportunity (not even her sister). She only became a "victim" when she felt personally threatened. I'm getting too angry writing this, so I'll stop.

But, let's not forget (circumstantial though it might be), without her Paul Bernardo never went beyond rape. With her..well...

Charlie Monoxide · 1st June 2005, 07:00 AM

Hi Truthseeker,

You are correct. I got that "ass-backward" on who exactly revealed the location of the video tapes. I forgot is was indeed Paul.

I personally believe that Paul was the scapegoat, but he certainly deserved what he got. The fact that "poor" Karla will be out on the streets shortly is sad, especially for the family of the victims.

Off topic: Toronto Star is a great newspaper.

Charlie (getting my daily dose of Canada) Monoxide

Badger · 1st June 2005, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
Hi Charlie,
It was his lawyer that revealed the tapes, not her. Bernardo did this to show the extent of Karla's involvement - it was part of his defence.

In the Star yesterday, www.thestar.com (but you have to register), they wrote about her distress at the tapes being discovered. This was because the tapes included her sister and another Jane Doe being raped by Karla and Paul.

She is the height of all psychopaths. The whole "victim" thing is a ruse. She lured the girls, she participated with "pleasure", she did not save the girls' lives when she had ample opportunity (not even her sister). She only became a "victim" when she felt personally threatened. I'm getting too angry writing this, so I'll stop.

But, let's not forget (circumstantial though it might be), without her Paul Bernardo never went beyond rape. With her..well...

I read (canoe, Globe and Mail) that this other Jane Doe may be the key to getting her tossed back in the slammer. Apparently, no charges for the crimes portrayed against Jane Doe, on the discovered video tapes, were ever pursued.

This would be a stroke of luck.

Evidence that Homolka was the killer consists of 2 small bruises on the backs of the 2 dismembered girls bodies....about the size and spacing of Homolka's knees, consistent with her strangling them from behind while kneeling on them. Perhaps tenuous evidence, but that is what I read.

I think she should be "inadvertently" left in general prison population for about 10 minutes.

Tanja · 1st June 2005, 09:29 AM

I never heard of the case until you mentioned it. That is really, really sick. Human beings can sometimes be really evil.

Tanja · 1st June 2005, 09:45 AM

There are some really strange sites about her.

Somehow, I guess that part of the public fascination with her could be because she was rather pretty - I've never seen a Maxine Carr fan site (UK readers would know who she is)

RandFan · 1st June 2005, 09:52 AM

I followed this case as it was happening. It has become part of the popular culture to a degree even being a contributing source for an episode of the TV Show Law and Order

I was really disturbed by the entire incident. I personally find nothing redeeming in Karla or Paul. It is just to beyond the pale for me to grasp. How does one sexually assault murder or take part in the murder of ones sister?

I find it impossible to put myself in the shoes of the parents. How do you deal with that?

I'm sorry but I'm at a loss as to suggest anything.

Jas · 1st June 2005, 10:25 AM

I can only imagine what her parents must feel like. Apparently they're helping her find an apartment in the Notre Dame district in Montreal. Imagine having one of your daughters participate in the rape/murder of your other daughter.

Her behaviour in prison hasn't exactly been consistent with someone who is remorseful for her actions.

IMO, she's a sick f*ck, who should be tossed in an oubliette.

On second thought, that's a bit too good for her....

TragicMonkey · 1st June 2005, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jas
IMO, she's a sick f*ck, who should be tossed in an oubliette.

For a wild moment, I thought I read "omelet" there, and thought it was a terribly exotic punishment for Canada.

Charlie Monoxide · 1st June 2005, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jas
IMO, she's a sick f*ck, who should be tossed in an oubliette.

On second thought, that's a bit too good for her....

Ha ha ha ...

C'est une bonne motte "oubliette". French for dungeon and taken from "forgetting". Unfortunately Karla (and Pauls') noteriety will be with us for a while yet ....

Charlie (toss em in a oubliette) Monoxide

TruthSeeker · 1st June 2005, 10:55 AM

More from here

Quote:

Homolka testified Bernardo beat her into submission and blackmailed her over her role in the death of her sister, who was drugged and raped by the couple. Two psychologists called by the Crown suggested Homolka suffered from battered women's syndrome. Rendered helpless and hopeless by repeated beatings, someone in her shoes could feel obliged to take part in the most heinous crimes, they said. Hare is skeptical.

"We look for very simple explanations for complex behavior," he said. "To me, battered women's syndrome does not explain what she did."

Even a psychiatrist retained by the prosecution - but not called as a witness at Bernardo's trial - said Homolka's role in the horrific crimes can't be fully explained by the abuse she suffered.

"Karla Homolka remains something of a diagnostic mystery." Dr. Angus McDonald wrote in his report, which the Bernardo jury never saw.

"Despite her ability to present herself very well, there is a moral vacuity in her which is difficult, if not impossible, to explain."

Jas · 1st June 2005, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TragicMonkey
For a wild moment, I thought I read "omelet" there, and thought it was a terribly exotic punishment for Canada.

You can thank the frogs for that one...

Jas · 1st June 2005, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Charlie Monoxide
Unfortunately Karla (and Pauls') noteriety will be with us for a while yet ....

Especially with that movie coming out, with the chick from That Seventies Show starring in it as Karla.

Skeptic · 1st June 2005, 08:09 PM

REALLY bad pun for hebrew speakers:

(singing)

Karla, Homolka
Karla, Homolka
Karla, Homolka ve'nishmecha...

Badger · 2nd June 2005, 10:16 AM

Here's another tidbit.

It amazes me how this can go on.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Law/2005...68058-sun.html

Jas · 2nd June 2005, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Badger
Here's another tidbit.

It amazes me how this can go on.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Law/2005...68058-sun.html

And they're still trying to claim that she's at no risk to re-offend? How secure can a max security prison be if she was able to develop a relationship with an offender of the opposite sex?

Although I think that those eyebrows and hair.... thing, are a crime in and of themselves.

TruthSeeker · 2nd June 2005, 03:25 PM

I can't respond. I am absolutely outraged. I just don't understand.

crimresearch · 2nd June 2005, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jas
And they're still trying to claim that she's at no risk to re-offend? How secure can a max security prison be if she was able to develop a relationship with an offender of the opposite sex?

Is that a crime up here?

easycruise · 3rd June 2005, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
I can't respond. I am absolutely outraged. I just don't understand.

And I am just as outraged when liberals fight hard against the death penalty for ANYONE! Even Charles Manson got his death sentence commuted to life in prison by the California Supreme Court. And the taxpayers have been feeding and housing him ever since. Same thing happened last year in Illinois when a Republican (sadly) governor commuted a whole bunch of death sentences.

As far as Holmolka goes, if she kills again, will you people in Canada and Europe finally wake up to the fact that there are evil people in the world that should be executed? Will your compassion actually kill someone?

Cleon · 3rd June 2005, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by easycruise
And I am just as outraged when liberals fight hard against the death penalty for ANYONE!

Um...You may want to rephrase that particular bit of your rant. Just a thought.

Charlie Monoxide · 3rd June 2005, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by easycruise
As far as Holmolka goes, if she kills again, will you people in Canada and Europe finally wake up to the fact that there are evil people in the world that should be executed? Will your compassion actually kill someone?

I'm in favor of the death penalty in extreme cases with absolute proof that the person getting the death penalty is the guilty party.

With the number of people freed from death row over the last 4 or 5 years, due mainly to efforts of groups like Barry Sheck's, it has become somewhat of a slippery slope punishment here in the states.

Charlie (kill em all and let jebus decide) Monoxide

Ipecac · 3rd June 2005, 06:58 AM

When I'm bored at work, I occasionally check out Crime Library. It's quite fascinating to read about the horrific crimes of which most people are unaware. For example, most Americans would say that Columbine was the worst school killing in American history. Sadly, it was not. Here's the horrific story of Bath, Michigan.

Of course, it's also incredibly depressing. You can't read too much in one day without becoming sad and depressed.

headscratcher4 · 3rd June 2005, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ipecac
When I'm bored at work, I occasionally check out Crime Library. It's quite fascinating to read about the horrific crimes of which most people are unaware. For example, most Americans would say that Columbine was the worst school killing in American history. Sadly, it was not. Here's the horrific story of Bath, Michigan.

Of course, it's also incredibly depressing. You can't read too much in one day without becoming sad and depressed.

Wow...I once lived in Clinton Twp. and have driven through Bath on many occasions...never knew anything about this...very chilling.

TruthSeeker · 3rd June 2005, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by easycruise
And I am just as outraged when liberals fight hard against the death penalty for ANYONE! Even Charles Manson got his death sentence commuted to life in prison by the California Supreme Court. And the taxpayers have been feeding and housing him ever since. Same thing happened last year in Illinois when a Republican (sadly) governor commuted a whole bunch of death sentences.

As far as Holmolka goes, if she kills again, will you people in Canada and Europe finally wake up to the fact that there are evil people in the world that should be executed? Will your compassion actually kill someone?

I will ignore the emotion here and just point out, as Charlie did earlier, that Karla was found guilty of manslaughter, not murder. I don't think she'd be eligible for the death sentence.

And, also, it is not my compassion which will kill her next victim, but her. She is responsible for her own choices. I would rather my compassion remain and work towards preventing the execution of those wrongly convicted.

Number Six · 3rd June 2005, 08:35 AM

I knew that watching all those City Confidential-type shows where they go over real life murder cases would someday come in handy. Because I watch those I know who Paul and Karla are.

The show I saw made them out to be sick, evil people. But IIRC the killing of her sister was an accident. They drugged her and raped her but they didn't expect her to die unless I'm misremembering.

How do you bring that up with someone you're dating? I mean, if you have an odd hobby or something you might hesitate but if you enjoy raping and killing? "Gee, I'd like her to share in my hobby of raping and killing but I'm kinda afraid to bring it up because she might not approve." I don't know which one broached it first but from the show I saw they were both enthusiastically going along with it.

Cleon · 3rd June 2005, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Number Six
I knew that watching all those City Confidential-type shows where they go over real life murder cases would someday come in handy. Because I watch those I know who Paul and Karla are.

The show I saw made them out to be sick, evil people. But IIRC the killing of her sister was an accident. They drugged her and raped her but they didn't expect her to die unless I'm misremembering.

And somehow the drugging and raping her little sister part doesn't make them sick and evil enough?

Quote:

How do you bring that up with someone you're dating? I mean, if you have an odd hobby or something you might hesitate but if you enjoy raping and killing? "Gee, I'd like her to share in my hobby of raping and killing but I'm kinda afraid to bring it up because she might not approve." I don't know which one broached it first but from the show I saw they were both enthusiastically going along with it.

And finally, we have an answer to the age-old question: "Is there anything more awkward than bringing up the idea of anal sex with your girlfriend?"

Bearguin · 3rd June 2005, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jas
Especially with that movie coming out, with the chick from That Seventies Show starring in it as Karla.

This is just sick. This whole episode (and the press free-for-all happening right now) should not be used for entertainment. These are sick, sick people and should be treated as such.

As far as Karla, I hope restrictions are placed on her but I don't know if they can be. She struck a deal that the prosecutors should be hung for agreeing to and got away with murder. But she has done her agreed upon time and I don't think it anything can be done about it.

But I sure don't want her in my neighborhood and I think the Police should be allowed to inform people where she does live.

If someone has a simple answer to this, I'd sure like to hear it.

Next we'll find out that Pickton gets a suspended sentence.

Charlie Monoxide · 3rd June 2005, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bearguin
Next we'll find out that Pickton gets a suspended sentence.

IIRC It is his first offense.

Charlie (making light of a serial killer's grisly murders) Monoxide

Ipecac · 3rd June 2005, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by headscratcher4
Wow...I once lived in Clinton Twp. and have driven through Bath on many occasions...never knew anything about this...very chilling.

Whenever someone goes on about how "things are worse than ever" and how these types of killers are somehow a result of our modern age, I just shake my head. This kind of horrible crime has been going on for a long time.

Bearguin · 3rd June 2005, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Charlie Monoxide
IIRC It is his first offense.

Charlie (making light of a serial killer's grisly murders) Monoxide

Well. First through fiftieth.

Badger · 3rd June 2005, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bearguin

If someone has a simple answer to this, I'd sure like to hear it.

The simple answer involves leather-clad, Harley riders, and cash.

I'm not advocating anything here, by the way. It springs to my mind as an obvious solution that someone desparate would come up with, and so I'd assume it'd occur to others as well.

31st May 2005, 06:58 PM	#1
TruthSeeker Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,602	Karla Homolka On July 4 (or thereabouts) one of Canada's most notorious killers will be released from prison. For those who don't know, here is a detailed account of Karla Homolka and Paul Bernardo In synopsis, she and her husband killed at least three young girls (one of them her sister). Two were held as sexslaves and raped repeatedly for several days before they were killed. They videotaped the sexual assaults and Karla was an active participant. The murders were not videotaped and it is not clear who did the actual killing. Importantly, Karla made a deal to serve 12 years for her crimes. In Canada, this is referred to as "the deal with the devil". Regardless, this is the deal she was given and she has served her time. The question now is whether restrictions can be placed on her once she is released into the community. According to the Premier of Ontario and others there is a high risk for reoffense. article Apparently, she has shown no remorse nor accepted any responsibility for her crimes. And yet, she has served her time. Should she be given a chance to rebuild her life? She is only 35. She has her whole life ahead of her. I am hoping this thread will trigger a reasoned discussion. I am not capable of that. Her husband was the bogey-man of my young adulthood. He raped women getting off buses in the neighbourhood where my bestfriend, exboyfriend and he all lived. He (and possibly she) are rumoured to be behind the death of a girl I knew in school (not enough evidence). I have a strong visceral reaction to the idea of her living a full happy life when she ended or shattered so many. So, I'd like to know what you think...
TruthSeeker Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,602	__________________ Believe those who seek the truth; doubt those who find it. -Andre Gide I am naive enough to believe that society will be changed by examination of ideas through books and the press, and that information can prove to be greater than the dissemination of stupidity - Dr. Seuss

31st May 2005, 08:00 PM	#2
Grammatron Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,446	I think it's a shame she wasn't tried in Texas.
Grammatron Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,446	__________________ Private Information, Do not read this!

31st May 2005, 08:11 PM	#3
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	Quote: Originally posted by Grammatron I think it's a shame she wasn't tried in Texas. No no, only retards and minorities get the chair in Texas, don't you read moveon.org?
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	__________________ In the tradition of "Stop Silvia!" Stop Hal Bidlack: http://skepticalcommunity.com/forums...hp?f=1&t=28671

31st May 2005, 08:14 PM	#4
TruthSeeker Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,602	Given that we don't have a death penalty and she has served her time, what should we do with her? Should she be free? Should she have restrictions like a curfew, checking in with parole officers and restraining orders to stay away from the women she procured for her husband? She is not on parole. She has served her full sentence.
TruthSeeker Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,602	__________________ Believe those who seek the truth; doubt those who find it. -Andre Gide I am naive enough to believe that society will be changed by examination of ideas through books and the press, and that information can prove to be greater than the dissemination of stupidity - Dr. Seuss

31st May 2005, 08:24 PM	#5
H3LL Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: (ləʊˈkeɪʃən) - n. 1. a site or position; situation. Posts: 4,976	She was charged with manslaughter. I don't know your local laws, but will she be "on licence" for the rest of her life? The mean spirited might suggest sending her some complementary tickets to a big local sporting event. cough Homolka cough 24B cough.
	__________________ "I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it". - PTerry Top 10 Reasons Why I Procrastinate: 1.

31st May 2005, 10:02 PM	#6
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 30,280	Perhaps a book deal, with subsequent talk show circuit, and then she'll be a wealthy woman, proving that life is horrendously unfair.
	__________________ One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.

1st June 2005, 06:27 AM	#7
TruthSeeker Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,602	Quote: Originally posted by H3LL She was charged with manslaughter. I don't know your local laws, but will she be "on licence" for the rest of her life? The mean spirited might suggest sending her some complementary tickets to a big local sporting event. cough Homolka cough 24B cough. I think - and I am far from an authority - that because she has served her full time and was not convicted of murder or a sex crime that she would not ordinarily be subjected to limitations on her freedom. That's why there is a special hearing tomorrow to argue that her circumstances (high risk of reoffending, sexual crimes against teens) require that such limitations be imposed. The vigilante fantasy is certainly floating around. She reportedly is "nervous" and has dyed/changed her hair and lost weight to change her appearance.
TruthSeeker Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,602	__________________ Believe those who seek the truth; doubt those who find it. -Andre Gide I am naive enough to believe that society will be changed by examination of ideas through books and the press, and that information can prove to be greater than the dissemination of stupidity - Dr. Seuss

1st June 2005, 06:29 AM	#8
TruthSeeker Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,602	Quote: Originally posted by TragicMonkey Perhaps a book deal, with subsequent talk show circuit, and then she'll be a wealthy woman, proving that life is horrendously unfair. I think that in Canada people convicted of a crime (but it might just be murder? anyone know for sure?) are not allowed to profit from the crime. This came into effect when Clifford Olsen, a serial killer, was making money by selling his story.
TruthSeeker Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,602	__________________ Believe those who seek the truth; doubt those who find it. -Andre Gide I am naive enough to believe that society will be changed by examination of ideas through books and the press, and that information can prove to be greater than the dissemination of stupidity - Dr. Seuss

1st June 2005, 06:34 AM	#9
Charlie Monoxide Wag Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: London, Ontario Posts: 2,761	Don't forget without the "deal with the devil" they probably would not have been able to convict her husband Paul. She was instrumental in revealing the whereabouts of the video tapes. The big question is did she have share the same responsibility for the murders as Paul? Was she a victim (as her lawyer tried to portray her in court)? I read a couple of pulpish books that came out. Both authors implied she was not only responsible but probably instigated the murders. They had no hard evidence. The bottom line is that we sometimes have to make deals that disgust us. Just because she showed no remorse or rehabilitation, there's not much we can do. Charlie (wait for her to re-offend?) Monoxide
	__________________ Major General Wag of JREF

1st June 2005, 06:39 AM	#10
Lisa Simpson THE Lisa Simpson Administrator Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: 123 Fake Street Posts: 20,107	Quote: Originally posted by Charlie Monoxide The bottom line is that we sometimes have to make deals that disgust us. Just because she showed no remorse or rehabilitation, there's not much we can do. Charlie (wait for her to re-offend?) Monoxide I agree with Charlie. There's not much that can be done. She served her time, even though it was ridiculously short for the crimes committed. Do sex offenders have to register in Canada?
	__________________ That's what the Internet does -- you get a free bonus prize of Stupid Lies with every box of Delicious Facts. - cracked.com Facts are satanic litter on the heavenly highway to blind faith! - Betty Bowers

1st June 2005, 06:50 AM	#11
TruthSeeker Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,602	Quote: Originally posted by Charlie Monoxide Don't forget without the "deal with the devil" they probably would not have been able to convict her husband Paul. She was instrumental in revealing the whereabouts of the video tapes. The big question is did she have share the same responsibility for the murders as Paul? Was she a victim (as her lawyer tried to portray her in court)? I read a couple of pulpish books that came out. Both authors implied she was not only responsible but probably instigated the murders. They had no hard evidence. The bottom line is that we sometimes have to make deals that disgust us. Just because she showed no remorse or rehabilitation, there's not much we can do. Charlie (wait for her to re-offend?) Monoxide Hi Charlie, It was his lawyer that revealed the tapes, not her. Bernardo did this to show the extent of Karla's involvement - it was part of his defence. In the Star yesterday, www.thestar.com (but you have to register), they wrote about her distress at the tapes being discovered. This was because the tapes included her sister and another Jane Doe being raped by Karla and Paul. She is the height of all psychopaths. The whole "victim" thing is a ruse. She lured the girls, she participated with "pleasure", she did not save the girls' lives when she had ample opportunity (not even her sister). She only became a "victim" when she felt personally threatened. I'm getting too angry writing this, so I'll stop. But, let's not forget (circumstantial though it might be), without her Paul Bernardo never went beyond rape. With her..well...
TruthSeeker Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,602	__________________ Believe those who seek the truth; doubt those who find it. -Andre Gide I am naive enough to believe that society will be changed by examination of ideas through books and the press, and that information can prove to be greater than the dissemination of stupidity - Dr. Seuss

1st June 2005, 07:00 AM	#12
Charlie Monoxide Wag Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: London, Ontario Posts: 2,761	Hi Truthseeker, You are correct. I got that "ass-backward" on who exactly revealed the location of the video tapes. I forgot is was indeed Paul. I personally believe that Paul was the scapegoat, but he certainly deserved what he got. The fact that "poor" Karla will be out on the streets shortly is sad, especially for the family of the victims. Off topic: Toronto Star is a great newspaper. Charlie (getting my daily dose of Canada) Monoxide
	__________________ Major General Wag of JREF

1st June 2005, 08:17 AM	#13
Badger Member of the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: In the country Posts: 3,441	Quote: Originally posted by TruthSeeker Hi Charlie, It was his lawyer that revealed the tapes, not her. Bernardo did this to show the extent of Karla's involvement - it was part of his defence. In the Star yesterday, www.thestar.com (but you have to register), they wrote about her distress at the tapes being discovered. This was because the tapes included her sister and another Jane Doe being raped by Karla and Paul. She is the height of all psychopaths. The whole "victim" thing is a ruse. She lured the girls, she participated with "pleasure", she did not save the girls' lives when she had ample opportunity (not even her sister). She only became a "victim" when she felt personally threatened. I'm getting too angry writing this, so I'll stop. But, let's not forget (circumstantial though it might be), without her Paul Bernardo never went beyond rape. With her..well... I read (canoe, Globe and Mail) that this other Jane Doe may be the key to getting her tossed back in the slammer. Apparently, no charges for the crimes portrayed against Jane Doe, on the discovered video tapes, were ever pursued. This would be a stroke of luck. Evidence that Homolka was the killer consists of 2 small bruises on the backs of the 2 dismembered girls bodies....about the size and spacing of Homolka's knees, consistent with her strangling them from behind while kneeling on them. Perhaps tenuous evidence, but that is what I read. I think she should be "inadvertently" left in general prison population for about 10 minutes.
	__________________ www.skepticalcommunity.com "You're a soundbite waiting to happen." (Steve Antle) "You are O.D'ing on drama flakes. Please stop." (kookbreaker) "You had me at bamboo worms." - (GeekGoddess) "I power-barfed for so long that I'm pretty sure I lost a few inches in height and maybe even went back in time a little. " (negativ)

1st June 2005, 09:29 AM	#14
Tanja Comfortably Numb Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 3,008	I never heard of the case until you mentioned it. That is really, really sick. Human beings can sometimes be really evil.
Tanja Comfortably Numb Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 3,008

1st June 2005, 09:45 AM	#15
Tanja Comfortably Numb Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 3,008	There are some really strange sites about her. Somehow, I guess that part of the public fascination with her could be because she was rather pretty - I've never seen a Maxine Carr fan site (UK readers would know who she is)
Tanja Comfortably Numb Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 3,008

1st June 2005, 09:52 AM	#16
RandFan Mormon Atheist Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern California Posts: 53,912	I followed this case as it was happening. It has become part of the popular culture to a degree even being a contributing source for an episode of the TV Show Law and Order I was really disturbed by the entire incident. I personally find nothing redeeming in Karla or Paul. It is just to beyond the pale for me to grasp. How does one sexually assault murder or take part in the murder of ones sister? I find it impossible to put myself in the shoes of the parents. How do you deal with that? I'm sorry but I'm at a loss as to suggest anything.
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1st June 2005, 10:25 AM	#17
Jas Queen Skankarella of Ho Nation Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 3,845	I can only imagine what her parents must feel like. Apparently they're helping her find an apartment in the Notre Dame district in Montreal. Imagine having one of your daughters participate in the rape/murder of your other daughter. Her behaviour in prison hasn't exactly been consistent with someone who is remorseful for her actions. IMO, she's a sick f*ck, who should be tossed in an oubliette. On second thought, that's a bit too good for her....
	__________________ "Ah, there's nothing more exciting than science! You get all the fun of sitting still, being quiet, writing down numbers, paying attention... Science has it all!" Lest We Forget

1st June 2005, 10:27 AM	#18
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 30,280	Quote: Originally posted by Jas *IMO, she's a sick fck, who should be tossed in an oubliette.** For a wild moment, I thought I read "omelet" there, and thought it was a terribly exotic punishment for Canada.
	__________________ One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.

1st June 2005, 10:45 AM	#19
Charlie Monoxide Wag Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: London, Ontario Posts: 2,761	Quote: Originally posted by Jas IMO, she's a sick f*ck, who should be tossed in an oubliette. On second thought, that's a bit too good for her.... Ha ha ha ... C'est une bonne motte "oubliette". French for dungeon and taken from "forgetting". Unfortunately Karla (and Pauls') noteriety will be with us for a while yet .... Charlie (toss em in a oubliette) Monoxide
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1st June 2005, 10:55 AM	#20
TruthSeeker Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,602	More from here Quote: Homolka testified Bernardo beat her into submission and blackmailed her over her role in the death of her sister, who was drugged and raped by the couple. Two psychologists called by the Crown suggested Homolka suffered from battered women's syndrome. Rendered helpless and hopeless by repeated beatings, someone in her shoes could feel obliged to take part in the most heinous crimes, they said. Hare is skeptical. "We look for very simple explanations for complex behavior," he said. "To me, battered women's syndrome does not explain what she did." Even a psychiatrist retained by the prosecution - but not called as a witness at Bernardo's trial - said Homolka's role in the horrific crimes can't be fully explained by the abuse she suffered. "Karla Homolka remains something of a diagnostic mystery." Dr. Angus McDonald wrote in his report, which the Bernardo jury never saw. "Despite her ability to present herself very well, there is a moral vacuity in her which is difficult, if not impossible, to explain."
TruthSeeker Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,602	__________________ Believe those who seek the truth; doubt those who find it. -Andre Gide I am naive enough to believe that society will be changed by examination of ideas through books and the press, and that information can prove to be greater than the dissemination of stupidity - Dr. Seuss

1st June 2005, 01:47 PM	#21
Jas Queen Skankarella of Ho Nation Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 3,845	Quote: Originally posted by TragicMonkey For a wild moment, I thought I read "omelet" there, and thought it was a terribly exotic punishment for Canada. You can thank the frogs for that one...
	__________________ "Ah, there's nothing more exciting than science! You get all the fun of sitting still, being quiet, writing down numbers, paying attention... Science has it all!" Lest We Forget

1st June 2005, 01:48 PM	#22
Jas Queen Skankarella of Ho Nation Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 3,845	Quote: Originally posted by Charlie Monoxide Unfortunately Karla (and Pauls') noteriety will be with us for a while yet .... Especially with that movie coming out, with the chick from That Seventies Show starring in it as Karla.
	__________________ "Ah, there's nothing more exciting than science! You get all the fun of sitting still, being quiet, writing down numbers, paying attention... Science has it all!" Lest We Forget

1st June 2005, 08:09 PM	#23
Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Behind the chessboard Posts: 18,361	REALLY bad pun for hebrew speakers: (singing) Karla, Homolka Karla, Homolka Karla, Homolka ve'nishmecha...

2nd June 2005, 10:16 AM	#24
Badger Member of the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: In the country Posts: 3,441	Here's another tidbit. It amazes me how this can go on. http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Law/2005...68058-sun.html
	__________________ www.skepticalcommunity.com "You're a soundbite waiting to happen." (Steve Antle) "You are O.D'ing on drama flakes. Please stop." (kookbreaker) "You had me at bamboo worms." - (GeekGoddess) "I power-barfed for so long that I'm pretty sure I lost a few inches in height and maybe even went back in time a little. " (negativ)

2nd June 2005, 11:39 AM	#25
Jas Queen Skankarella of Ho Nation Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 3,845	Quote: Originally posted by Badger Here's another tidbit. It amazes me how this can go on. http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Law/2005...68058-sun.html And they're still trying to claim that she's at no risk to re-offend? How secure can a max security prison be if she was able to develop a relationship with an offender of the opposite sex? Although I think that those eyebrows and hair.... thing, are a crime in and of themselves.
	__________________ "Ah, there's nothing more exciting than science! You get all the fun of sitting still, being quiet, writing down numbers, paying attention... Science has it all!" Lest We Forget

2nd June 2005, 03:25 PM	#26
TruthSeeker Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,602	I can't respond. I am absolutely outraged. I just don't understand.
TruthSeeker Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,602	__________________ Believe those who seek the truth; doubt those who find it. -Andre Gide I am naive enough to believe that society will be changed by examination of ideas through books and the press, and that information can prove to be greater than the dissemination of stupidity - Dr. Seuss

2nd June 2005, 03:46 PM	#27
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618	Quote: Originally posted by Jas And they're still trying to claim that she's at no risk to re-offend? How secure can a max security prison be if she was able to develop a relationship with an offender of the opposite sex? Is that a crime up here?
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618

3rd June 2005, 05:29 AM	#28
easycruise Muse Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: In chains I can bereave in Posts: 720	Quote: Originally posted by TruthSeeker I can't respond. I am absolutely outraged. I just don't understand. And I am just as outraged when liberals fight hard against the death penalty for ANYONE! Even Charles Manson got his death sentence commuted to life in prison by the California Supreme Court. And the taxpayers have been feeding and housing him ever since. Same thing happened last year in Illinois when a Republican (sadly) governor commuted a whole bunch of death sentences. As far as Holmolka goes, if she kills again, will you people in Canada and Europe finally wake up to the fact that there are evil people in the world that should be executed? Will your compassion actually kill someone?
	__________________ ""Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They always run out of other people's money."" - Margaret Thatcher

3rd June 2005, 05:36 AM	#29
Cleon King of the Pod People Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 20,608	Quote: Originally posted by easycruise And I am just as outraged when liberals fight hard against the death penalty for ANYONE! Um...You may want to rephrase that particular bit of your rant. Just a thought.
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

3rd June 2005, 05:46 AM	#30
Charlie Monoxide Wag Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: London, Ontario Posts: 2,761	Quote: Originally posted by easycruise As far as Holmolka goes, if she kills again, will you people in Canada and Europe finally wake up to the fact that there are evil people in the world that should be executed? Will your compassion actually kill someone? I'm in favor of the death penalty in extreme cases with absolute proof that the person getting the death penalty is the guilty party. With the number of people freed from death row over the last 4 or 5 years, due mainly to efforts of groups like Barry Sheck's, it has become somewhat of a slippery slope punishment here in the states. Charlie (kill em all and let jebus decide) Monoxide
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3rd June 2005, 06:58 AM	#31
Ipecac Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,852	When I'm bored at work, I occasionally check out Crime Library. It's quite fascinating to read about the horrific crimes of which most people are unaware. For example, most Americans would say that Columbine was the worst school killing in American history. Sadly, it was not. Here's the horrific story of Bath, Michigan. Of course, it's also incredibly depressing. You can't read too much in one day without becoming sad and depressed.
Ipecac Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,852

3rd June 2005, 07:29 AM	#32
headscratcher4 Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: USA Posts: 7,759	Quote: Originally posted by Ipecac When I'm bored at work, I occasionally check out Crime Library. It's quite fascinating to read about the horrific crimes of which most people are unaware. For example, most Americans would say that Columbine was the worst school killing in American history. Sadly, it was not. Here's the horrific story of Bath, Michigan. Of course, it's also incredibly depressing. You can't read too much in one day without becoming sad and depressed. Wow...I once lived in Clinton Twp. and have driven through Bath on many occasions...never knew anything about this...very chilling.
	__________________ Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel. -- Homer Simpson

3rd June 2005, 08:01 AM	#33
TruthSeeker Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,602	Quote: Originally posted by easycruise And I am just as outraged when liberals fight hard against the death penalty for ANYONE! Even Charles Manson got his death sentence commuted to life in prison by the California Supreme Court. And the taxpayers have been feeding and housing him ever since. Same thing happened last year in Illinois when a Republican (sadly) governor commuted a whole bunch of death sentences. As far as Holmolka goes, if she kills again, will you people in Canada and Europe finally wake up to the fact that there are evil people in the world that should be executed? Will your compassion actually kill someone? I will ignore the emotion here and just point out, as Charlie did earlier, that Karla was found guilty of manslaughter, not murder. I don't think she'd be eligible for the death sentence. And, also, it is not my compassion which will kill her next victim, but her. She is responsible for her own choices. I would rather my compassion remain and work towards preventing the execution of those wrongly convicted.
TruthSeeker Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,602	__________________ Believe those who seek the truth; doubt those who find it. -Andre Gide I am naive enough to believe that society will be changed by examination of ideas through books and the press, and that information can prove to be greater than the dissemination of stupidity - Dr. Seuss

3rd June 2005, 08:35 AM	#34
Number Six JREF Kid Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,017	I knew that watching all those City Confidential-type shows where they go over real life murder cases would someday come in handy. Because I watch those I know who Paul and Karla are. The show I saw made them out to be sick, evil people. But IIRC the killing of her sister was an accident. They drugged her and raped her but they didn't expect her to die unless I'm misremembering. How do you bring that up with someone you're dating? I mean, if you have an odd hobby or something you might hesitate but if you enjoy raping and killing? "Gee, I'd like her to share in my hobby of raping and killing but I'm kinda afraid to bring it up because she might not approve." I don't know which one broached it first but from the show I saw they were both enthusiastically going along with it.
Number Six JREF Kid Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,017

3rd June 2005, 08:54 AM	#35
Cleon King of the Pod People Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 20,608	Quote: Originally posted by Number Six I knew that watching all those City Confidential-type shows where they go over real life murder cases would someday come in handy. Because I watch those I know who Paul and Karla are. The show I saw made them out to be sick, evil people. But IIRC the killing of her sister was an accident. They drugged her and raped her but they didn't expect her to die unless I'm misremembering. And somehow the drugging and raping her little sister part doesn't make them sick and evil enough? Quote: How do you bring that up with someone you're dating? I mean, if you have an odd hobby or something you might hesitate but if you enjoy raping and killing? "Gee, I'd like her to share in my hobby of raping and killing but I'm kinda afraid to bring it up because she might not approve." I don't know which one broached it first but from the show I saw they were both enthusiastically going along with it. And finally, we have an answer to the age-old question: "Is there anything more awkward than bringing up the idea of anal sex with your girlfriend?"
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich