Saudis Rebut Trafficking Report

Elind · 4th June 2005, 08:31 PM

Given my interest, obviously, in M.E. issues I thought I would like to ask how this type of issue is perceived by others.

As I've mentioned before I'm sure, I have some personal experiences in that part of the world, and I have my opinions on this (not necessarily the same as my other "political" expressions). I'll be happy to post my views if anyone else cares to do the same.

Saudis Rebut Trafficking Report

By REUTERS
Published: June 5, 2005

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia, June 4 (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia said Saturday that it strongly disagreed with a United States report citing it as a top offender in human trafficking.

A State Department report released Friday said forced labor existed in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates and included domestic servants, laborers, prostitutes and even boys as young as 3 who ride in camel races.

"We are surprised by the contents of the report, and we disagree with most of what has been mentioned," said Prince Torki bin Muhammad bin Saud al-Kabeer, under secretary for political affairs at the Saudi Foreign Ministry. "We will study the report and respond to it."

"The rules and regulations of Saudi Arabia prohibit exploitation and trafficking of people," the prince said. "Our religion also does not accept this."

Prince Torki said that violations of Saudi rules might occur but that the government had taken significant steps to help bring offenders to justice and planned to introduce new rules for foreign workers soon.

The States Department's annual report put the four countries, all American allies in the Persian Gulf, in the lowest category for human trafficking, defined as states that "do not fully comply with the minimum standards" and are "not making significant efforts to do so."

They could face sanctions if they do not improve their record within three months. But such penalties have rarely been applied.

crimresearch · 4th June 2005, 08:41 PM

Ahhh, well...if their religion forbids it, it can't possibly exist.

http://www.humantrafficking.org/

http://www.gvnet.com/humantrafficking/

http://www.antislavery.org/homepage/...rafficking.htm

http://www.salvationarmy-usaeast.org...ng.pdf#search='human%20trafficking'

http://www.unfpa.org/gender/trafficking.htm

http://www.freetheslaves.net/

http://www.hrw.org/women/trafficking.html

Elind · 4th June 2005, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crimresearch
Ahhh, well...if their religion forbids it, it can't possibly exist.

http://www.humantrafficking.org/

http://www.gvnet.com/humantrafficking/

http://www.antislavery.org/homepage/...rafficking.htm

http://www.salvationarmy-usaeast.org...ng.pdf#search='human%20trafficking'

http://www.unfpa.org/gender/trafficking.htm

http://www.freetheslaves.net/

http://www.hrw.org/women/trafficking.html

We can all Google, but that is not an opinion. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't know that any religion forbids it. Doesn't the Bible have references just to treating them right? Whatever that means.

crimresearch · 4th June 2005, 09:16 PM

I've been posting here on modern slavery for quite some time, thank you for not noticing.

*You* might need to Google to learn about it, but not all of us are so unconcerned.

Elind · 4th June 2005, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crimresearch
I've been posting here on modern slavery for quite some time, thank you for not noticing.

*You* might need to Google to learn about it, but not all of us are so unconcerned.

Gee I'm sorry. I don't read every post, even by those I admire.

I don't know what you mean by unconcerned, but I understand if you are bored with the post topic and don't want to repeat yourself. Let it die if you wish.

crimresearch · 4th June 2005, 09:40 PM

I don't have that luxury.

Ed · 5th June 2005, 04:19 AM

What else are they going to do? It probably depends on how you define "traffic".

Elind · 5th June 2005, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ed
What else are they going to do? It probably depends on how you define "traffic".

Yes I suppose, as in how you define torture.

Ed · 5th June 2005, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elind
Yes I suppose, as in how you define torture.

Yup. Same thing. Unfortunately it appears to work. As I said in another thread, polititions despise the citizens. And rightly so.

aerocontrols · 5th June 2005, 09:49 AM

Seems more of a denial than a rebuttal.

Ed · 5th June 2005, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by aerocontrols
Seems more of a denial than a rebuttal.

But remember that denile ain't in Saudi Arabia.

Cleon · 5th June 2005, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ed
But remember that denile ain't in Saudi Arabia.

Elind · 5th June 2005, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by aerocontrols
Seems more of a denial than a rebuttal.

Yes it does. Since no one has offered any great insights here, I thought I'd venture that "trafficking" is probably not the right word. I don't think they do that to a great extent in the sense of organized crime syndicates that one will find in some places, but with a country where almost every household has imported domestic servants, and the cultural attitude is very cast based, so to speak (workers and us), coupled with a very serious, IMHO, preoccupation with sex which is available only illegally in any form outside of marriage, the scope for abuse is enormous, and so is the fact of abuse.

The problem is that Saudi culture doesn't allow for interference in "family" afairs in any significant way (as in wife beating is OK; and who cares about imported labor), so the government is very reluctant to do anything about enforcing the laws they claim to have.

I think the Russians, for example, have more businesses "trafficking" than the Saudis do, but I suppose it doesn't matter to the victims what the circumstances were and there are certainly plenty in Saudi.

4th June 2005, 08:31 PM	#1
Elind Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Florida Posts: 6,622	Saudis Rebut Trafficking Report Given my interest, obviously, in M.E. issues I thought I would like to ask how this type of issue is perceived by others. As I've mentioned before I'm sure, I have some personal experiences in that part of the world, and I have my opinions on this (not necessarily the same as my other "political" expressions). I'll be happy to post my views if anyone else cares to do the same. Saudis Rebut Trafficking Report By REUTERS Published: June 5, 2005 RIYADH, Saudi Arabia, June 4 (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia said Saturday that it strongly disagreed with a United States report citing it as a top offender in human trafficking. A State Department report released Friday said forced labor existed in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates and included domestic servants, laborers, prostitutes and even boys as young as 3 who ride in camel races. "We are surprised by the contents of the report, and we disagree with most of what has been mentioned," said Prince Torki bin Muhammad bin Saud al-Kabeer, under secretary for political affairs at the Saudi Foreign Ministry. "We will study the report and respond to it." "The rules and regulations of Saudi Arabia prohibit exploitation and trafficking of people," the prince said. "Our religion also does not accept this." Prince Torki said that violations of Saudi rules might occur but that the government had taken significant steps to help bring offenders to justice and planned to introduce new rules for foreign workers soon. The States Department's annual report put the four countries, all American allies in the Persian Gulf, in the lowest category for human trafficking, defined as states that "do not fully comply with the minimum standards" and are "not making significant efforts to do so." They could face sanctions if they do not improve their record within three months. But such penalties have rarely been applied.

4th June 2005, 08:41 PM	#2
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618	Ahhh, well...if their religion forbids it, it can't possibly exist. http://www.humantrafficking.org/ http://www.gvnet.com/humantrafficking/ http://www.antislavery.org/homepage/...rafficking.htm http://www.salvationarmy-usaeast.org...ng.pdf#search='human%20trafficking' http://www.unfpa.org/gender/trafficking.htm http://www.freetheslaves.net/ http://www.hrw.org/women/trafficking.html
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618

4th June 2005, 09:16 PM	#4
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618	I've been posting here on modern slavery for quite some time, thank you for not noticing. You might need to Google to learn about it, but not all of us are so unconcerned.
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618

4th June 2005, 09:40 PM	#6
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618	I don't have that luxury.
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618

5th June 2005, 04:19 AM	#7
Ed god Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,691	What else are they going to do? It probably depends on how you define "traffic".
Ed god Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,691	__________________ "The history of science is the record of dead religions" Phrases And Philosophies For The Use Of The Young Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) Our Guarentee: One obscure (or not) Python reference per day.

4th June 2005, 09:11 PM	#3
Elind Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Florida Posts: 6,622	Quote: Originally posted by crimresearch Ahhh, well...if their religion forbids it, it can't possibly exist. http://www.humantrafficking.org/ http://www.gvnet.com/humantrafficking/ http://www.antislavery.org/homepage/...rafficking.htm http://www.salvationarmy-usaeast.org...ng.pdf#search='human%20trafficking' http://www.unfpa.org/gender/trafficking.htm http://www.freetheslaves.net/ http://www.hrw.org/women/trafficking.html We can all Google, but that is not an opinion. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't know that any religion forbids it. Doesn't the Bible have references just to treating them right? Whatever that means.

4th June 2005, 09:21 PM	#5
Elind Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Florida Posts: 6,622	Quote: Originally posted by crimresearch I've been posting here on modern slavery for quite some time, thank you for not noticing. You might need to Google to learn about it, but not all of us are so unconcerned. Gee I'm sorry. I don't read every post, even by those I admire. I don't know what you mean by unconcerned, but I understand if you are bored with the post topic and don't want to repeat yourself. Let it die if you wish.

5th June 2005, 06:45 AM	#8
Elind Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Florida Posts: 6,622	Quote: Originally posted by Ed What else are they going to do? It probably depends on how you define "traffic". Yes I suppose, as in how you define torture.

5th June 2005, 06:52 AM	#9
Ed god Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,691	Quote: Originally posted by Elind Yes I suppose, as in how you define torture. Yup. Same thing. Unfortunately it appears to work. As I said in another thread, polititions despise the citizens. And rightly so.
Ed god Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,691	__________________ "The history of science is the record of dead religions" Phrases And Philosophies For The Use Of The Young Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) Our Guarentee: One obscure (or not) Python reference per day.

5th June 2005, 09:49 AM	#10
aerocontrols Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,445	Seems more of a denial than a rebuttal.
	__________________ Misunderestimated in 2000. Unredefeated in 2004. My dog does his tricks. My roomate's dog tries to escape the kitchen. We call you to be a people of manners, principles, honour, and purity; to reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling's, and trading with interest. Source

5th June 2005, 10:15 AM	#11
Ed god Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,691	Quote: Originally posted by aerocontrols Seems more of a denial than a rebuttal. But remember that denile ain't in Saudi Arabia.
Ed god Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,691	__________________ "The history of science is the record of dead religions" Phrases And Philosophies For The Use Of The Young Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) Our Guarentee: One obscure (or not) Python reference per day.

5th June 2005, 10:22 AM	#12
Cleon King of the Pod People Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 20,533	Quote: Originally posted by Ed But remember that denile ain't in Saudi Arabia.
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

5th June 2005, 03:23 PM	#13
Elind Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Florida Posts: 6,622	Quote: Originally posted by aerocontrols Seems more of a denial than a rebuttal. Yes it does. Since no one has offered any great insights here, I thought I'd venture that "trafficking" is probably not the right word. I don't think they do that to a great extent in the sense of organized crime syndicates that one will find in some places, but with a country where almost every household has imported domestic servants, and the cultural attitude is very cast based, so to speak (workers and us), coupled with a very serious, IMHO, preoccupation with sex which is available only illegally in any form outside of marriage, the scope for abuse is enormous, and so is the fact of abuse. The problem is that Saudi culture doesn't allow for interference in "family" afairs in any significant way (as in wife beating is OK; and who cares about imported labor), so the government is very reluctant to do anything about enforcing the laws they claim to have. I think the Russians, for example, have more businesses "trafficking" than the Saudis do, but I suppose it doesn't matter to the victims what the circumstances were and there are certainly plenty in Saudi.