Caffeine Cures... - Page 2

Rolfe · 8th June 2005, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Olaf/QII
rolfe does not agree. she thinks that you need to be on your death bed before that should happen.

Stop making things up. I said I'd have to be very ill with properly diagnosed lead poisoning before I'd want anyone near me with anything as toxic as EDTA (or whatever chelating agent is licensed for human use in this situation). This was to emphasise my concern about the toxicity of these compounds.

For the record, once a positive diagnosis of a heavy metal poisoning has been made, of course the indicated treatment needs to be given. However, the emphasis is on getting the confirmed diagnosis before jumping in with dangerous compounds.

Rolfe.

Rolfe · 8th June 2005, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Olaf/QII
How do i know you aren't making that up? I'm not saying that you would make it up, but let's just say that i'm suspicious.

Well, you don't, just the same as we don't know that you're not making up most of what you post here. Not that you've been very forthcoming about yourself.

I could post a picture of my personalised copy - but hey, it's personalised with my actual name, so I don't think I will.

Of course, I could just have made up the posts from a year or so ago when I was complaining about having too many deadlines all at once, including for the Merck Manual, so displaying these wouldn't prove anything either. Like this one, and this one, and this one.

So, believe what you want, I should coco.

Rolfe.

Ralph · 8th June 2005, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Olaf/QII
rolfe does not agree. she thinks that you need to be on your death bed before that should happen.

OK---but I'd still to know what other toxins--besides heavy metals---should be eliminated.

Chris Haynes · 8th June 2005, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Olaf/QII
afraid you are wrong about chelation. that it helps those who have been poisoned by heavy metals is fact.

i believe that DMSA is approved by the FDA for lead toxicity.
....

It is so incredibly stupid that people who "think" their kid got autism (a genetic condition) from the small bit of thimerosal that may have been in the vaccine (especially when their child was born AFTER the thimerosal was removed and the supplies with the stuff were used up) are now happy as punch to pump some of this very nasty stuff into their kids. It borders on child abuse... and oh, look -- there are been a few lawsuits because it did make the kids worse! http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/edelson.html

Of course, that is except for the "transdermal" cream by Rashid Buttar (Buttar Cream?) which does nothing but is very stinky. That is just idiotic.

These folks are just so swarmy: http://www.neurodiversity.com/evidence_of_venom.html

Still, it would nice if SOMEONE would answer the question: Exactly what "toxins" are removed by shooting coffee up a person's bum?

Olaf/QII · 8th June 2005, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ralph
OK---but I'd still to know what other toxins--besides heavy metals---should be eliminated.

i don't know ralph. my main point was to counter eos claiming that toxins absolutely do not need to be addressed. I believe that this is pure foolishness. not to say that it will do anything for everyone but there could be people out there who are suffering from some sort of toxicity.

on the coffee enema thing---- who knows maybe some people might be able to benefit from this therapy in some small way.

personally i don't think it is of much value but then again all possibilities must be kept open.

Olaf/QII · 8th June 2005, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hydrogen Cyanide
It is so incredibly stupid that people who "think" their kid got autism (a genetic condition) from the small bit of thimerosal that may have been in the vaccine (especially when their child was born AFTER the thimerosal was removed and the supplies with the stuff were used up) are now happy as punch to pump some of this very nasty stuff into their kids. It borders on child abuse... and oh, look -- there are been a few lawsuits because it did make the kids worse! http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/edelson.html

Of course, that is except for the "transdermal" cream by Rashid Buttar (Buttar Cream?) which does nothing but is very stinky. That is just idiotic.

These folks are just so swarmy: http://www.neurodiversity.com/evidence_of_venom.html

Still, it would nice if SOMEONE would answer the question: Exactly what "toxins" are removed by shooting coffee up a person's bum?

I do not doubt it for a second that this stuff could make many children and adults worse.

I also do not doubt it one bit that it could make some children aND ADULTS BETter.

************************************************** ******

it is interesting how almost all the pseudo-skeptics on this site continually see the cup being half empty.

I certainly admire the caution that many of you have but it seems like you don't know when enough is enough.

one other thing, i am glad that there are people who are bringing attention to obvious fraud.

Penta water is one that comes to mind. I don't know what it is about that product but it disturbs me that those guys are getting rich selling that stuff.

LostAngeles · 8th June 2005, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Olaf/QII
Why should i?

I don't care about this very much.

You don't care about babies?! What kind of a heartless monster are you!?

Good Ed's Gravy!

END MOCKING.

Rolfe · 8th June 2005, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Olaf/QII
i don't know ralph.

Oh, some self-knowledge at last!

Quote:

Originally posted by Olaf/QII
my main point was to counter eos claiming that toxins absolutely do not need to be addressed. I believe that this is pure foolishness. not to say that it will do anything for everyone but there could be people out there who are suffering from some sort of toxicity.

You know what? The people promoting coffee enemas as a cure for cancer aren't referring to lead poisoning, or any other known and documented form of actual poisoning either. And I sort of think Eos knows this, and so she didn't bother qualifying her post with, "of course I'm not denying that actual poisoning with actual known poisons ought to be treated."

This woo-woo "toxins" stuff is all about supposed toxins produced by the body and allegedly physically clinging to the wall of the colon. Well, for a start, the body is well able to get rid of its own waste products in its own way, so long as the kidneys and liver are healthy, and if they aren't, you're going to need a lot more than coffee enemas to keep you going (dialysis rather springs to mind). And second, this alleged pile of crud clinging to the intestinal wall simply doesn't exist. Anyone who has ever done surgery, or a post-mortem, or even looked down an endoscope will be able to tell you that.

So I don't think we need disclaimers about "note that there are real poisons which need real treatment" when debunking this sort of exploitative scam.

Quote:

Originally posted by Olaf/QII
on the coffee enema thing---- who knows maybe some people might be able to benefit from this therapy in some small way.

personally i don't think it is of much value but then again all possibilities must be kept open.

You're beginning to sound awfully like Kumar, you know. The more senseless and discredited something is, the more it is a possibility we ought to research, doncha know. "Some small benefit"??? Prince Charles is touting this as a cure for cancer, for God's sake!

It's rubbish, and only a fool would see it as a "possibility". Part of science is knowing when to stop chasing wild geese, and if anything comes in that category, the coffee enema sure does.

Rolfe.

Lisa Simpson · 8th June 2005, 01:45 PM

No one I've ever spoken to about these "toxins" has been able to tell me exactly what they are and why gastroenterologists never find the crud encrusted bowels. Conspiracy, I guess. Big pharma and the AMA or some such.

Aww Rolfe. Why did you fix the psst-mortem. I liked it. Instead of a horse whisperer, one could be a corpse whisperer.

Olaf/QII · 8th June 2005, 01:58 PM

Yes, it is good to know that there are people out there informing people that the idea of a 2" buildup around their colon is false.

it does disturb me when i read websites that try to peddle their colon cleansing products by stating this rubbish.

i never said you people are totally worthless

Chris Haynes · 8th June 2005, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Olaf/QII
I do not doubt it for a second that this stuff could make many children and adults worse.

I also do not doubt it one bit that it could make some children aND ADULTS BETter.
....

Not like you have an informed opinion either way, is it?

Okay, now tell us exactly what the toxins are.

And how do you know that the caffeine, EDTA or DMSA (or even the Buttar Cream) could make them better?

Eos of the Eons · 8th June 2005, 06:50 PM

Oh Great, I get laid out by a cold and Oaf spouts idiocy for days.

I still would like to know what toxins a coffee enema is supposed to address.

Quote:

You know what? The people promoting coffee enemas as a cure for cancer aren't referring to lead poisoning, or any other known and documented form of actual poisoning either. And I sort of think Eos knows this, and so she didn't bother qualifying her post with, "of course I'm not denying that actual poisoning with actual known poisons ought to be treated."

Thank you Rolfe!

And I point the list of toxins that was posted earlier, the toxins in coffee that you are actually introducing with a stupid useless enema. Coffee enemas are just gross.

I'm still fighting off this cold, so will bow out for now.

Lisa Simpson · 8th June 2005, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eos of the Eons

I'm still fighting off this cold, so will bow out for now.

Maybe a coffee enema will help...

Eos of the Eons · 8th June 2005, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson
Maybe a coffee enema will help...

Not Funny. Not.

ROFLMAO!!!!

8th June 2005, 10:14 AM	#41
Rolfe Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 34,328	Quote: Originally posted by Olaf/QII rolfe does not agree. she thinks that you need to be on your death bed before that should happen. Stop making things up. I said I'd have to be very ill with properly diagnosed lead poisoning before I'd want anyone near me with anything as toxic as EDTA (or whatever chelating agent is licensed for human use in this situation). This was to emphasise my concern about the toxicity of these compounds. For the record, once a positive diagnosis of a heavy metal poisoning has been made, of course the indicated treatment needs to be given. However, the emphasis is on getting the confirmed diagnosis before jumping in with dangerous compounds. Rolfe.
	__________________ "The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.

8th June 2005, 10:18 AM	#42
Rolfe Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 34,328	Quote: Originally posted by Olaf/QII How do i know you aren't making that up? I'm not saying that you would make it up, but let's just say that i'm suspicious. Well, you don't, just the same as we don't know that you're not making up most of what you post here. Not that you've been very forthcoming about yourself. I could post a picture of my personalised copy - but hey, it's personalised with my actual name, so I don't think I will. Of course, I could just have made up the posts from a year or so ago when I was complaining about having too many deadlines all at once, including for the Merck Manual, so displaying these wouldn't prove anything either. Like this one, and this one, and this one. So, believe what you want, I should coco. Rolfe.
	__________________ "The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.

8th June 2005, 12:33 PM	#44
Chris Haynes Perfectly Poisonous Person Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Wacky Washington Way Out West Posts: 4,205	Quote: Originally posted by Olaf/QII afraid you are wrong about chelation. that it helps those who have been poisoned by heavy metals is fact. i believe that DMSA is approved by the FDA for lead toxicity. .... It is so incredibly stupid that people who "think" their kid got autism (a genetic condition) from the small bit of thimerosal that may have been in the vaccine (especially when their child was born AFTER the thimerosal was removed and the supplies with the stuff were used up) are now happy as punch to pump some of this very nasty stuff into their kids. It borders on child abuse... and oh, look -- there are been a few lawsuits because it did make the kids worse! http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/edelson.html Of course, that is except for the "transdermal" cream by Rashid Buttar (Buttar Cream?) which does nothing but is very stinky. That is just idiotic. These folks are just so swarmy: http://www.neurodiversity.com/evidence_of_venom.html Still, it would nice if SOMEONE would answer the question: Exactly what "toxins" are removed by shooting coffee up a person's bum?
	__________________ I used to be intelligent... but then I had kids "HCN, I hate you!" ( so sayeth Deetee at http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=1077344 )... What I get for linking to http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/

8th June 2005, 01:08 PM	#45
Olaf/QII Guest Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 440	Quote: Originally posted by Ralph OK---but I'd still to know what other toxins--besides heavy metals---should be eliminated. i don't know ralph. my main point was to counter eos claiming that toxins absolutely do not need to be addressed. I believe that this is pure foolishness. not to say that it will do anything for everyone but there could be people out there who are suffering from some sort of toxicity. on the coffee enema thing---- who knows maybe some people might be able to benefit from this therapy in some small way. personally i don't think it is of much value but then again all possibilities must be kept open.
Olaf/QII Guest Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 440

8th June 2005, 01:13 PM	#46
Olaf/QII Guest Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 440	Quote: Originally posted by Hydrogen Cyanide It is so incredibly stupid that people who "think" their kid got autism (a genetic condition) from the small bit of thimerosal that may have been in the vaccine (especially when their child was born AFTER the thimerosal was removed and the supplies with the stuff were used up) are now happy as punch to pump some of this very nasty stuff into their kids. It borders on child abuse... and oh, look -- there are been a few lawsuits because it did make the kids worse! http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/edelson.html Of course, that is except for the "transdermal" cream by Rashid Buttar (Buttar Cream?) which does nothing but is very stinky. That is just idiotic. These folks are just so swarmy: http://www.neurodiversity.com/evidence_of_venom.html Still, it would nice if SOMEONE would answer the question: Exactly what "toxins" are removed by shooting coffee up a person's bum? I do not doubt it for a second that this stuff could make many children and adults worse. I also do not doubt it one bit that it could make some children aND ADULTS BETter. ************************************************ **** it is interesting how almost all the pseudo-skeptics on this site continually see the cup being half empty. I certainly admire the caution that many of you have but it seems like you don't know when enough is enough. one other thing, i am glad that there are people who are bringing attention to obvious fraud. Penta water is one that comes to mind. I don't know what it is about that product but it disturbs me that those guys are getting rich selling that stuff.
Olaf/QII Guest Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 440

8th June 2005, 12:07 PM	#43
Ralph Muse Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: S.E. Mass....... Posts: 997	Quote: Originally posted by Olaf/QII rolfe does not agree. she thinks that you need to be on your death bed before that should happen. OK---but I'd still to know what other toxins--besides heavy metals---should be eliminated.

8th June 2005, 01:23 PM	#47
LostAngeles Anti-WM Jihadist Join Date: May 2004 Location: Having a cup of tea. Posts: 10,159	Quote: Originally posted by Olaf/QII Why should i? I don't care about this very much. You don't care about babies?! What kind of a heartless monster are you!? Good Ed's Gravy! END MOCKING.
	__________________ "There is also a likelihood that the settlement will fall between two biomes, potentially hazardous if the player expects a peaceful oceanside meadow, without realizing the ocean is full of amphibious zombie whales." - Dwarf Fortress Wik

8th June 2005, 01:36 PM	#48
Rolfe Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 34,328	Quote: Originally posted by Olaf/QII i don't know ralph. Oh, some self-knowledge at last! Quote: Originally posted by Olaf/QII my main point was to counter eos claiming that toxins absolutely do not need to be addressed. I believe that this is pure foolishness. not to say that it will do anything for everyone but there could be people out there who are suffering from some sort of toxicity. You know what? The people promoting coffee enemas as a cure for cancer aren't referring to lead poisoning, or any other known and documented form of actual poisoning either. And I sort of think Eos knows this, and so she didn't bother qualifying her post with, "of course I'm not denying that actual poisoning with actual known poisons ought to be treated." This woo-woo "toxins" stuff is all about supposed toxins produced by the body and allegedly physically clinging to the wall of the colon. Well, for a start, the body is well able to get rid of its own waste products in its own way, so long as the kidneys and liver are healthy, and if they aren't, you're going to need a lot more than coffee enemas to keep you going (dialysis rather springs to mind). And second, this alleged pile of crud clinging to the intestinal wall simply doesn't exist. Anyone who has ever done surgery, or a post-mortem, or even looked down an endoscope will be able to tell you that. So I don't think we need disclaimers about "note that there are real poisons which need real treatment" when debunking this sort of exploitative scam. Quote: Originally posted by Olaf/QII on the coffee enema thing---- who knows maybe some people might be able to benefit from this therapy in some small way. personally i don't think it is of much value but then again all possibilities must be kept open. You're beginning to sound awfully like Kumar, you know. The more senseless and discredited something is, the more it is a possibility we ought to research, doncha know. "Some small benefit"??? Prince Charles is touting this as a cure for cancer, for God's sake! It's rubbish, and only a fool would see it as a "possibility". Part of science is knowing when to stop chasing wild geese, and if anything comes in that category, the coffee enema sure does. Rolfe.
	__________________ "The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.

8th June 2005, 01:45 PM	#49
Lisa Simpson THE Lisa Simpson Administrator Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: 123 Fake Street Posts: 20,061	No one I've ever spoken to about these "toxins" has been able to tell me exactly what they are and why gastroenterologists never find the crud encrusted bowels. Conspiracy, I guess. Big pharma and the AMA or some such. Aww Rolfe. Why did you fix the psst-mortem. I liked it. Instead of a horse whisperer, one could be a corpse whisperer.
	__________________ That's what the Internet does -- you get a free bonus prize of Stupid Lies with every box of Delicious Facts. - cracked.com Facts are satanic litter on the heavenly highway to blind faith! - Betty Bowers

8th June 2005, 01:58 PM	#50
Olaf/QII Guest Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 440	Yes, it is good to know that there are people out there informing people that the idea of a 2" buildup around their colon is false. it does disturb me when i read websites that try to peddle their colon cleansing products by stating this rubbish. i never said you people are totally worthless
Olaf/QII Guest Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 440

8th June 2005, 05:27 PM	#51
Chris Haynes Perfectly Poisonous Person Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Wacky Washington Way Out West Posts: 4,205	Quote: Originally posted by Olaf/QII I do not doubt it for a second that this stuff could make many children and adults worse. I also do not doubt it one bit that it could make some children aND ADULTS BETter. .... Not like you have an informed opinion either way, is it? Okay, now tell us exactly what the toxins are. And how do you know that the caffeine, EDTA or DMSA (or even the Buttar Cream) could make them better?
	__________________ I used to be intelligent... but then I had kids "HCN, I hate you!" ( so sayeth Deetee at http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=1077344 )... What I get for linking to http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/

8th June 2005, 06:50 PM	#52
Eos of the Eons Mad Scientist Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Alberta Posts: 13,894	Oh Great, I get laid out by a cold and Oaf spouts idiocy for days. I still would like to know what toxins a coffee enema is supposed to address. Quote: You know what? The people promoting coffee enemas as a cure for cancer aren't referring to lead poisoning, or any other known and documented form of actual poisoning either. And I sort of think Eos knows this, and so she didn't bother qualifying her post with, "of course I'm not denying that actual poisoning with actual known poisons ought to be treated." Thank you Rolfe! And I point the list of toxins that was posted earlier, the toxins in coffee that you are actually introducing with a stupid useless enema. Coffee enemas are just gross. I'm still fighting off this cold, so will bow out for now.
	__________________ Motion affecting a measuring device does not affect what is actually being measured, except to inaccurately measure it. the immaterial world doesn't matter, cause it ain't matter-Jeff Corey my karma ran over my dogma-vbloke The Lateral Truth: An Apostate's Bible Stories by Rebecca Bradley, read it!

8th June 2005, 06:52 PM	#53
Lisa Simpson THE Lisa Simpson Administrator Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: 123 Fake Street Posts: 20,061	Quote: Originally posted by Eos of the Eons I'm still fighting off this cold, so will bow out for now. Maybe a coffee enema will help...
	__________________ That's what the Internet does -- you get a free bonus prize of Stupid Lies with every box of Delicious Facts. - cracked.com Facts are satanic litter on the heavenly highway to blind faith! - Betty Bowers

8th June 2005, 08:17 PM	#54
Eos of the Eons Mad Scientist Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Alberta Posts: 13,894	Quote: Originally posted by Lisa Simpson Maybe a coffee enema will help... Not Funny. Not. ROFLMAO!!!!
	__________________ Motion affecting a measuring device does not affect what is actually being measured, except to inaccurately measure it. the immaterial world doesn't matter, cause it ain't matter-Jeff Corey my karma ran over my dogma-vbloke The Lateral Truth: An Apostate's Bible Stories by Rebecca Bradley, read it!