Suggestion for TAM4 paper/discussion

Chaos · 8th June 2005, 02:17 AM

At previous TAMs, and not only there, there has been a dispute about the relation between religion and skepticism (and, incidentally, mental health).
If my memory serves me, at TAM2 Penn called religious people "(rule 8)ing retards", and at TAM3 Christopher Hitchens stated that "if you believe in god, you flew those planes into the WTC".

IsnÂ´t it ironic that, while religious fundies consider atheists to be evil and/or mentally handicapped, some fundamentalist skeptics consider religious people to be evil and/or mentally handicapped? To be even more confrontational: what the hell is the difference, in this regard, between Penn Jilette and Jerry Falwell?

I think that we, as a skeptical movement, should have a more in-depth discussion of this issue. I know that some TAM2/TAM3 attendees from this forum are religious (in the sense that they believe in god). IÂ´d absolutely love to see one of them presenting a paper at TAM4 titled "How it is possible to both be skeptical and believe in god" or "Why religious people are actually okay" or something like that. DonÂ´t ask me to do it, though; IÂ´m an atheist, and I would drop dead from stagefright anyway.
Alternatively, there could be a panel discussion on that topic - but please, donÂ´t let it be dominated by the above-mentioned loudmouths.

Hal Bidlack · 8th June 2005, 06:06 AM

well, this may be a case of ask and you shall receive...

My topic for my talk on Saturday is "can a skeptic believe in God" which is directly followed by a panel of the same topic.

(to give it away, my answer is "yes," though with a few qualifications)

Chaos · 8th June 2005, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hal Bidlack
well, this may be a case of ask and you shall receive...

My topic for my talk on Saturday is "can a skeptic believe in God" which is directly followed by a panel of the same topic.

(to give it away, my answer is "yes," though with a few qualifications)

Ha! IÂ´m a psychic! I have foretold the future!

Seriously: I actually had you in mind when I wrote the opening post; I remember that you spoke against Penn and Christopher Hitchens at TAM2/3. I really look forward to hearing you speak on that.

IllegalArgument · 8th June 2005, 06:44 AM

I understand Penn like to be over the top, but I wonder what he thinks Martin Gardner is a "(rule 8)ing retard".

Hal, I look forward to hearing you at TAM4

8th June 2005, 02:17 AM	#1
Chaos TAM Chocolate Dispenser Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Heart of Old Europe Posts: 9,775	Suggestion for TAM4 paper/discussion At previous TAMs, and not only there, there has been a dispute about the relation between religion and skepticism (and, incidentally, mental health). If my memory serves me, at TAM2 Penn called religious people "(rule 8)ing retards", and at TAM3 Christopher Hitchens stated that "if you believe in god, you flew those planes into the WTC". IsnÂ´t it ironic that, while religious fundies consider atheists to be evil and/or mentally handicapped, some fundamentalist skeptics consider religious people to be evil and/or mentally handicapped? To be even more confrontational: what the hell is the difference, in this regard, between Penn Jilette and Jerry Falwell? I think that we, as a skeptical movement, should have a more in-depth discussion of this issue. I know that some TAM2/TAM3 attendees from this forum are religious (in the sense that they believe in god). IÂ´d absolutely love to see one of them presenting a paper at TAM4 titled "How it is possible to both be skeptical and believe in god" or "Why religious people are actually okay" or something like that. DonÂ´t ask me to do it, though; IÂ´m an atheist, and I would drop dead from stagefright anyway. Alternatively, there could be a panel discussion on that topic - but please, donÂ´t let it be dominated by the above-mentioned loudmouths.
	__________________ Grand Master, Knights of the Question Mark Illusion: too good to be true - Reality: too true to be good Authors build castles in the sky, readers live in them and publishers collect the rent. - Maxim Gorki Folks enjoy a witch-hunt as long as they are on the blunt end of the pitchfork. - Suezoled You can't use logic to talk a man out of a position that he didn't use logic to get himself into - passed down by Nyarlathotep Kids these days are better than their parents since they constitute the newest edition, the beta version of our societies - Cleopatra YouÂ´ll have to accept the fact that some people are just plain nuts. - Paul C. Anagnostopolous

8th June 2005, 06:39 AM	#3
Chaos TAM Chocolate Dispenser Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Heart of Old Europe Posts: 9,775	Quote: Originally posted by Hal Bidlack well, this may be a case of ask and you shall receive... My topic for my talk on Saturday is "can a skeptic believe in God" which is directly followed by a panel of the same topic. (to give it away, my answer is "yes," though with a few qualifications) Ha! IÂ´m a psychic! I have foretold the future! Seriously: I actually had you in mind when I wrote the opening post; I remember that you spoke against Penn and Christopher Hitchens at TAM2/3. I really look forward to hearing you speak on that.
	__________________ Grand Master, Knights of the Question Mark Illusion: too good to be true - Reality: too true to be good Authors build castles in the sky, readers live in them and publishers collect the rent. - Maxim Gorki Folks enjoy a witch-hunt as long as they are on the blunt end of the pitchfork. - Suezoled You can't use logic to talk a man out of a position that he didn't use logic to get himself into - passed down by Nyarlathotep Kids these days are better than their parents since they constitute the newest edition, the beta version of our societies - Cleopatra YouÂ´ll have to accept the fact that some people are just plain nuts. - Paul C. Anagnostopolous

8th June 2005, 06:06 AM	#2
Hal Bidlack TAM MC Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: colorado Posts: 210	well, this may be a case of ask and you shall receive... My topic for my talk on Saturday is "can a skeptic believe in God" which is directly followed by a panel of the same topic. (to give it away, my answer is "yes," though with a few qualifications)

8th June 2005, 06:44 AM	#4
IllegalArgument Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Reston, VA Posts: 1,757	I understand Penn like to be over the top, but I wonder what he thinks Martin Gardner is a "(rule 8)ing retard". Hal, I look forward to hearing you at TAM4