USAians?

AmateurScientist · 31st July 2005, 09:01 AM

This is a relatively trivial issue, but one about which I simply wish to express my annoyance.

What's up with employing the awkward, downright goofy term "USAians?"

As convention has clearly labeled residents of the US "Americans," and therefore no confusion results from the use of the term, the only possible reason I can fathom for using "USAians" to describe those whom have nearly always been called "Americans" (except when certain Brits still refer to us as "colonists") is a bow to political correctness.

I remember on these very forums a certain poster who said she was from Mexico engaged in some heated exchange with me about three years ago, basically accusing me of some form of racism and Americentrism, simply because I used the term "Americans." I responded that nearly everyone refers to residents of her country as "Mexicans" and to residents of Canada as "Canadians." Where's the confusion? Where's the slight or insult?

Yes, all three nations comprise North America. Yes, there is a continent called South America. So?

The term "Americans" is employed due to convention and nothing more. "USAians" is an annoying and awkward substitute and does not belong in usage.

No one ever called residents of the former USSR "USSRians." They were "Russians," whether that term was geographically accurate or not. No one calls residents of the UK "UKians." By convention, we say "the British," even though I suppose to unusually sensitive persons that might slight some Scottish persons or some Welsh persons or many of those who live in Northern Ireland.

I suggest that "USAians" is equally awkward and unnecessary. Its usage should stop. It's not going to replace convention, and it seems to be a solution in search of a problem.

This sort of political correctness serves little purpose and undermines honest discourse by chilling speech (in this case, placing certain words like "American" off limits). Further, it seems to instill some sort of misguided guilt in its adherents and proponents. Those employing terms like "USAians" seem to be doing so out of a kind of redress for perceived slights against others, such as Mexicans and Canadians, and I suppose all South Americans. The perceived slights are unintentional, however, just as the conventional usage of British is not meant to slight residents of the UK outside of England or what was until only recently called "Great Britain."

Please stop saying "USAians."

AS

Mercutio · 31st July 2005, 09:11 AM

I had heard it "united statesians", which while longer is more natural to pronounce.

I figure the people who are calling us that are doing so in their own language (usually spanish, in the contexts I have seen), so it does not matter one iota to me what they call me. Their language, their label. It is a lot less stupid than "freedom fries".

AmateurScientist · 31st July 2005, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mercutio
I had heard it "united statesians", which while longer is more natural to pronounce.

I figure the people who are calling us that are doing so in their own language (usually spanish, in the contexts I have seen), so it does not matter one iota to me what they call me. Their language, their label. It is a lot less stupid than "freedom fries".

I disagree about the claim that it's simply "their language, their label." Those are not the ones I'm complaining about.

There are some posters in this politcs forum--I've noticed only British and Canadian posters, who are presumably native Anglophones--who routinely refer to Americans as "USians." I think it's silly, that's all.

AS

aerocontrols · 31st July 2005, 09:25 AM

USAians doesn't bother me.

Where's the confusion? Where's the slight or insult?

Darat · 31st July 2005, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AmateurScientist
...snip...
I suggest that "USAians" is equally awkward and unnecessary. Its usage should stop. It's not going to replace convention, and it seems to be a solution in search of a problem.

...snip...

Please stop saying "USAians."

AS

I only noticed it here a few weeks ago and I quite like it. And given my pet peeve of people using "European" to mean "The EU" I think it is only fair and right I try to avoid doing the same by not using the term "American" when I am only referring to the citizens of the United States of America.

(Edited to add)

You PC fanatics, never satisfied, anyway it's your fault - you shouldnâ€™t have picked such a long but still ambiguous name for your country, I mean "United States of America", what's wrong with a nice short snappy name like "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"? You PC fanatics, never satisfied!

BPSCG · 31st July 2005, 09:48 AM

My issue with it is that it's almost unpronounceable.

yew-ess-AY-ee-enz ?

I suppose we could go with the Mexican preference, gringos.

Whoops, sorry; I meant norteamericanos.

Which I suppose would/should annoy the Canadans (not "Canadians", since there's no such country as "Canadia"); after all, they live in norteamerica, too. So do the Mexicans, come to think of it; why don't they consider themselves to be norteamericanos?

Frankly, I wouldn't consider it offensive if you called us "Wretched Refuse." Badge of honor, in fact.

slingblade · 31st July 2005, 10:37 AM

I don't care what you call me, as long as you don't call me late for supper.

Seriously, I can see some good points on both sides of the debate, and would have to give it some more thought.

As a student of English, I know that new terms enter the language constantly, but only a certain number of them actually remain in the language, long-term. For myself, I'll have a wait and see attitude. If it sticks, I may need to begin using it.

It's likely it will pass out of the language fairly quickly. It does strike me as awkward, I can agree with that. But then, new shoes are also awkward, at first, until one wears them for a while.

We'll see.

TragicMonkey · 31st July 2005, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AmateurScientist
Yes, all three nations comprise North America. Yes, there is a continent called South America. So?

You've forgotten Central America, which is part of North America. Geographically, residents of both North and South America are Americans. But nobody uses the geographic sense of the word, any more than an American would call an Iranian "Asian" (although the British do) despite its geographical accuracy. People are generally named ethnically or politically, not geographically.

Quote:

No one ever called residents of the former USSR "USSRians." They were "Russians," whether that term was geographically accurate or not.

You can hardly complain about disliking an accurate term for yourself while announcing yourself willing to deliberately mislabel others. I triple dog dare you to visit Chechnya and call them Russians. The USSR occupied a vast area and dozens if not hundreds of non-Russian peoples were part of it. A Uighur, an Armenian, and a Kazakh are not Russians. Calling them such is just plain lazy, as well as rude. People ought to be called what they are, not what is convenient for foreigners to remember.

Although I agree with you about USAian. It's linguistically ugly and awkward. Over time, "American" has come to mean "United States" simply because "United States" doesn't lend itself to an easy term for people, in English anyway. If anything, it's Americans who should feel slighted by the term American, because our country name is so awkward that we had to default to the continent's name for a term for ourselves rather than having our own unique country name.

eta: to correct a plural, that made it unintentionally hilarious.

Tricky · 31st July 2005, 10:50 AM

I've always thought that "Yanks" worked perfectly well. True, it is primarily British, but it is widely known and even the minor confusion with "Yankees" is hardly an issue. I know it has been occasionally used as a term of minor derision, but it is also used as a term of endearment (as in the song "Over There").

I agree that USAians is unweildy and unnecessary. Plus, when I first saw it I read it as USAsians, which would indicate Asian/Americans to me.

TragicMonkey · 31st July 2005, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tricky
I've always thought that "Yanks" worked perfectly well. True, it is primarily British, but it is widely known and even the minor confusion with "Yankees" is hardly an issue.

Argh! The problem is that American Southerners, like myself, get murderously resentful when mislabelled as Yankees. The word "Yank", however innocently intended by ignorant foreigners, is "fightin' words" because it implies "Yankee", and that is indeed an issue. And has been since the War of Northern Aggression.

The Don · 31st July 2005, 11:22 AM

I find that "Septics" works pretty well

Underemployed · 31st July 2005, 01:07 PM

Simple economy: shorter than 'North American' and geographically correct. How about some alternatives based on the same principles:

USAns (YEW-sans)

Namans (North Americans) (NAY-mans)
(Also Namericans)

Unians (YEW-ni-ans)

We can combine these into:

Unamericans (Yew-nuh-MER-ih-kans)

or

Unimans which contracts into:

Unims, which may over time turn into the phonetic root Yoons (or perhaps Yoonies).

Then there are the 'States' derivatives:

Staters, Statesians, Statters, Stats, Statists (taken already), Statizens, Statniks, Stanians, Staners, Statesmen/women/people (taken) Stazers, Stazi (taken).

If you insist on sticking with 'America' somewhere, we can all do better:

Amen (taken), Amercs, Amerians, Merricks, Mercs (taken), Americs, Amers, Ames, Amish (taken).

We can easily combine a few of these and still come up with something short, yet descriptive that will satisfy even the PC brigade:

Ustaziamen (Yoo-stah-zi-A-men)

Unstamers (Un-STAY-mers)

Unistamicks (Yoo-ni-STAY-miks)

It can only be a matter of time before one of these is adopted.

CapelDodger · 31st July 2005, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TragicMonkey
Argh! The problem is that American Southerners, like myself, get murderously resentful when mislabelled as Yankees. The word "Yank", however innocently intended by ignorant foreigners, is "fightin' words" because it implies "Yankee", and that is indeed an issue. And has been since the War of Northern Aggression.

A question that's never occurred to me before : had Southern folk successfully resisted the forces of progress, what would they have called themselves? Rebs? (Over here, of course, we still refer to US "citizens" as Rebels, between ourselves.)

Capel "Try poking it with a stick" Dodger

slingblade · 31st July 2005, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CapelDodger
A question that's never occurred to me before : had Southern folk successfully resisted the forces of progress, what would they have called themselves?

Slave owners.

The idea · 31st July 2005, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Underemployed
It can only be a matter of time before one of these is adopted.

How about a word based on "Sam" as in "Uncle Sam."
For example,

Sammers

Samicans

Sammishers

Samafarians

CapelDodger · 31st July 2005, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by slingblade
Slave owners.

I didn't want to stir things up that much.

TragicMonkey · 31st July 2005, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CapelDodger
A question that's never occurred to me before : had Southern folk successfully resisted the forces of progress, what would they have called themselves? Rebs? (Over here, of course, we still refer to US "citizens" as Rebels, between ourselves.)

"Confederates", perhaps, after the name of the nation they tried to create. Although they would also have claim to "American", but I imagine they'd want to distinguish themselves from their neighbors.

Someone's only a rebel until they succeed, in which case anyone still fighting is then the rebel.

Ditto with revolutions; it always irritated me that the Soviets accused reformers of being "counter-revolutionaries" when the revolution had been over for decades.

Tricky · 31st July 2005, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TragicMonkey
Argh! The problem is that American Southerners, like myself, get murderously resentful when mislabelled as Yankees. The word "Yank", however innocently intended by ignorant foreigners, is "fightin' words" because it implies "Yankee", and that is indeed an issue. And has been since the War of Northern Aggression.

Well, maybe you can bear it if you recall that Yanks are different from Yankees. Do you have any confusion differentiating between Turks and Turkeys? If so, I think I'll skip Thanksgiving at your house.

(And as for the War of Southern Stupidity, get over it. Though I'm "born an bred" in Alabama, as far as I am concerned, there are no words worth fighting over. Actions, yes, words, no.)

CapelDodger · 31st July 2005, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TragicMonkey
"Confederates", perhaps, after the name of the nation they tried to create. Although they would also have claim to "American", but I imagine they'd want to distinguish themselves from their neighbors.

In that light, I suppose they'd have called themselves Georgians, Virginians, Carolinans (Carolinians?) and so on.

eta: Or Alabamans.

TragicMonkey · 31st July 2005, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tricky
Well, maybe you can bear it if you recall that Yanks are different from Yankees. Do you have any confusion differentiating between Turks and Turkeys? If so, I think I'll skip Thanksgiving at your house.

I have an excellent recipe for Mustafa Kemal with stuffing. Served in a fez for irony.

Quote:

(And as for the War of Southern Stupidity, get over it. Though I'm "born an bred" in Alabama, as far as I am concerned, there are no words worth fighting over. Actions, yes, words, no.)

Not even to defend ya honah, sah, as a gennelman? Shocking!

TragicMonkey · 31st July 2005, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CapelDodger
In that light, I suppose they'd have called themselves Georgians, Virginians, Carolinans (Carolinians?) and so on.

You're probably right. Back then, everyone, North and South, seemed to place more emphasis on their states than we do today. I wonder if, over time, we'll switch back the other way, and it will suddenly be more significant to be a Wisconsonianiteian than an American? I doubt it. The world has gotten bigger.

Ryokan · 31st July 2005, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AmateurScientist
By convention, we say "the British," even though I suppose to unusually sensitive persons that might slight some Scottish persons or some Welsh persons or many of those who live in Northern Ireland.

The perceived slights are unintentional, however, just as the conventional usage of British is not meant to slight residents of the UK outside of England or what was until only recently called "Great Britain."

I'm surprised anyone hasn't mentioned this yet, but the Scots and the Welsh are British. Britain is an island that consists of England, Wales and Scotland.

And the full name of the UK is United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, so I'm not sure what you mean by 'only recently called Great Britain'.

Edit : Typo

TragicMonkey · 31st July 2005, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ryokan
I'm surprised anyone hasn't mentioned this yet, but the Scots and the Welsh are British. Britain is an island that consists of England, Wales and Scotland.

And the full name of the UK is United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, so I'm not sure what you mean by 'only recently called Great Britain'.

I'd be willing to be called "Usaian" by the British if I can call them "Uks" in return.

Ryokan · 31st July 2005, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TragicMonkey
I'd be willing to be called "Usaian" by the British if I can call them "Uks" in return.

The completely correct would be to call them UKoGBaNRians.

By the way, doesn't the Spanish word for 'person from USA' translate back into English as something like 'Unitedstatesian'?

mummymonkey · 31st July 2005, 02:34 PM

USAians is a new one to me. Never heard it spoken. I've seen Leftpondians but I'm not sure if that includes Canadians.

Mostly you get called Yanks or Merkins.

Underemployed · 31st July 2005, 02:37 PM

Merkins????

Now there's an insult!

Ryokan · 31st July 2005, 02:45 PM

Why use USAian, when there are so many terms that could easily substitute 'American'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensi...tes_of_America

TragicMonkey · 31st July 2005, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ryokan
Why use USAian, when there are so many terms that could easily substitute 'American'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensi...tes_of_America

From that site:

Quote:

Shatner-stealing Mexico touchers â€“ coined in the "Catch 'Em If You Can" episode of The Simpsons. Includes a reference to the fact that popular Star Trek actor William Shatner was born in Canada, the fact that the USA shares a border with Mexico, and further lobs offense at Mexico by the implication that "touching" it is somehow unpleasant.

I'd love to be called a Shatner-Stealing Mexico Toucher! It's both classy, and true!

AmateurScientist · 31st July 2005, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ryokan
Why use USAian, when there are so many terms that could easily substitute 'American'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensi...tes_of_America

Shouldn't you be insulted that there aren't any derogatory names listed for Norwegians?

They do list some for Swedes. Oh well. Same thing I guess.

AS

TragicMonkey · 31st July 2005, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AmateurScientist
They do list some for Swedes. Oh well. Same thing I guess.

The 1919 edition of "The Hardy Boys" books I inherited, and read as a child, the term "Swede" was an insult in itself.

The older editions of those books are hilariously racist against everybody. Especially the Irish, which is funny since they were written by an Irishman.

Ryokan · 31st July 2005, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AmateurScientist
Shouldn't you be insulted that there aren't any derogatory names listed for Norwegians?

They do list some for Swedes. Oh well. Same thing I guess.

AS

Haha, thank you! That made me smile

Of course there aren't any derogatory terms for Norwegians, we're all so nice and pleasant

CapelDodger · 31st July 2005, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TragicMonkey
You're probably right. Back then, everyone, North and South, seemed to place more emphasis on their states than we do today. I wonder if, over time, we'll switch back the other way, and it will suddenly be more significant to be a Wisconsonianiteian than an American? I doubt it. The world has gotten bigger.

And scarier. I'm of the opinion that people will come to identify more with their locales than with nations, but since that accords with the way I prefer to see things I don't give the opinion much credence.

Ryokan · 31st July 2005, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CapelDodger
And scarier. I'm of the opinion that people will come to identify more with their locales than with nations, but since that accords with the way I prefer to see things I don't give the opinion much credence.

Quite the opposite from me, then. I hope we all one day identify ourselves as Human

epepke · 31st July 2005, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AmateurScientist
What's up with employing the awkward, downright goofy term "USAians?"

A few years ago, it was USians.

The argument, when stated, was that since there are either 3 or 2 1/2 continents called "America," "Americans" was inspecific.

However, there is only one country in the Americas with "America" in its name, and there are two with "United States" in their names.

"USAians" is kind of awkward because there's no one obvious way to pronounce "aia."

TragicMonkey · 31st July 2005, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by epepke
"USAians" is kind of awkward because there's no one obvious way to pronounce "aia."

I think "Oo-SAY-ans" sounds kind of cool.

I'd drop my objections if they'd only capitalize the first letter and make it Usaians, rather than the mishmash of USAians.

Plus it makes us sound like some kind of cool aliens or demons or something! "Buffy! The Usaians have the Key of Tardacktylos! You must slay the Usaian Queen before she opens the Gates of Korash!" or "Captain! We're picking up an Usaian vessel approaching at warp speed! Should I change into something skimpy and meet you in your quarters?"

slingblade · 31st July 2005, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ryokan
Quite the opposite from me, then. I hope we all one day identify ourselves as Human

Overheard on campus:

"I'm so confused about what to call you; do you prefer Native American, Indian, American Indian, Indigenous Person, or what?"

"Actually, I prefer Michael."

TragicMonkey · 31st July 2005, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by slingblade
Overheard on campus:

"I'm so confused about what to call you; do you prefer Native American, Indian, American Indian, Indigenous Person, or what?"

"Actually, I prefer Michael."

They'll call him Mike, whether he wants them to or not.

CapelDodger · 31st July 2005, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ryokan
Quite the opposite from me, then. I hope we all one day identify ourselves as Human

I'm for that. It does leave us rather rootless on its own, though, and I think that's a problem. What I find disastrous is identification with "nation", which is usually artifical and beyond the human scale. Ditto such ideas as "the Islamic World" or "the Christian World". It's much easier to mislead people as to the interests of such transcendent units than to mislead them about the place they live in.

Ladewig · 31st July 2005, 04:22 PM

I generally use the term to refer to those who people who have never travelled beyond the borders of the U.S. yet consider the United States as being the greatest country in the history of the world. I picked up the usage from the USENET. It's kind of like cow-orker; only different.

TragicMonkey · 31st July 2005, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ladewig
I generally use the term to refer to those who people who have never travelled beyond the borders of the U.S. yet consider the United States as being the greatest country in the history of the world.

The US is pretty great, but it'll always be second to the Kingdom of Trebizond. And possibly Mitanni, before it got all trashy when they let the tourists in.

31st July 2005, 09:01 AM	#1
AmateurScientist JREF Kid Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 5,319	USAians? This is a relatively trivial issue, but one about which I simply wish to express my annoyance. What's up with employing the awkward, downright goofy term "USAians?" As convention has clearly labeled residents of the US "Americans," and therefore no confusion results from the use of the term, the only possible reason I can fathom for using "USAians" to describe those whom have nearly always been called "Americans" (except when certain Brits still refer to us as "colonists") is a bow to political correctness. I remember on these very forums a certain poster who said she was from Mexico engaged in some heated exchange with me about three years ago, basically accusing me of some form of racism and Americentrism, simply because I used the term "Americans." I responded that nearly everyone refers to residents of her country as "Mexicans" and to residents of Canada as "Canadians." Where's the confusion? Where's the slight or insult? Yes, all three nations comprise North America. Yes, there is a continent called South America. So? The term "Americans" is employed due to convention and nothing more. "USAians" is an annoying and awkward substitute and does not belong in usage. No one ever called residents of the former USSR "USSRians." They were "Russians," whether that term was geographically accurate or not. No one calls residents of the UK "UKians." By convention, we say "the British," even though I suppose to unusually sensitive persons that might slight some Scottish persons or some Welsh persons or many of those who live in Northern Ireland. I suggest that "USAians" is equally awkward and unnecessary. Its usage should stop. It's not going to replace convention, and it seems to be a solution in search of a problem. This sort of political correctness serves little purpose and undermines honest discourse by chilling speech (in this case, placing certain words like "American" off limits). Further, it seems to instill some sort of misguided guilt in its adherents and proponents. Those employing terms like "USAians" seem to be doing so out of a kind of redress for perceived slights against others, such as Mexicans and Canadians, and I suppose all South Americans. The perceived slights are unintentional, however, just as the conventional usage of British is not meant to slight residents of the UK outside of England or what was until only recently called "Great Britain." Please stop saying "USAians." AS

31st July 2005, 09:11 AM	#2
Mercutio Shakespeare's Sock Puppet Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Live Free Or Die Posts: 16,140	I had heard it "united statesians", which while longer is more natural to pronounce. I figure the people who are calling us that are doing so in their own language (usually spanish, in the contexts I have seen), so it does not matter one iota to me what they call me. Their language, their label. It is a lot less stupid than "freedom fries".
	__________________ "But to see her was to love her Love but her, and love forever."

31st July 2005, 09:25 AM	#4
aerocontrols Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,445	USAians doesn't bother me. Where's the confusion? Where's the slight or insult?
	__________________ Misunderestimated in 2000. Unredefeated in 2004. My dog does his tricks. My roomate's dog tries to escape the kitchen. We call you to be a people of manners, principles, honour, and purity; to reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling's, and trading with interest. Source

31st July 2005, 09:27 AM	#5
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 45,885	Re: USAians? Quote: Originally posted by AmateurScientist ...snip... I suggest that "USAians" is equally awkward and unnecessary. Its usage should stop. It's not going to replace convention, and it seems to be a solution in search of a problem. ...snip... Please stop saying "USAians." AS I only noticed it here a few weeks ago and I quite like it. And given my pet peeve of people using "European" to mean "The EU" I think it is only fair and right I try to avoid doing the same by not using the term "American" when I am only referring to the citizens of the United States of America. (Edited to add) You PC fanatics, never satisfied, anyway it's your fault - you shouldnâ€™t have picked such a long but still ambiguous name for your country, I mean "United States of America", what's wrong with a nice short snappy name like "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"? You PC fanatics, never satisfied!
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

31st July 2005, 09:48 AM	#6
BPSCG Cannibal Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Looting Fafner's Cave Posts: 17,567	My issue with it is that it's almost unpronounceable. yew-ess-AY-ee-enz ? I suppose we could go with the Mexican preference, gringos. Whoops, sorry; I meant norteamericanos. Which I suppose would/should annoy the Canadans (not "Canadians", since there's no such country as "Canadia"); after all, they live in norteamerica, too. So do the Mexicans, come to think of it; why don't they consider themselves to be norteamericanos? Frankly, I wouldn't consider it offensive if you called us "Wretched Refuse." Badge of honor, in fact.
	__________________ Philanthropist (n.) - Someone who spends his own money to advance his version of Utopia. Socialist (n.) - Someone who spends your money to advance his version of Utopia.

31st July 2005, 09:17 AM	#3
AmateurScientist JREF Kid Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 5,319	Quote: Originally posted by Mercutio I had heard it "united statesians", which while longer is more natural to pronounce. I figure the people who are calling us that are doing so in their own language (usually spanish, in the contexts I have seen), so it does not matter one iota to me what they call me. Their language, their label. It is a lot less stupid than "freedom fries". I disagree about the claim that it's simply "their language, their label." Those are not the ones I'm complaining about. There are some posters in this politcs forum--I've noticed only British and Canadian posters, who are presumably native Anglophones--who routinely refer to Americans as "USians." I think it's silly, that's all. AS

31st July 2005, 10:37 AM	#7
slingblade 63% similar to you Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: In This Fog, Who Knows? Posts: 13,122	I don't care what you call me, as long as you don't call me late for supper. Seriously, I can see some good points on both sides of the debate, and would have to give it some more thought. As a student of English, I know that new terms enter the language constantly, but only a certain number of them actually remain in the language, long-term. For myself, I'll have a wait and see attitude. If it sticks, I may need to begin using it. It's likely it will pass out of the language fairly quickly. It does strike me as awkward, I can agree with that. But then, new shoes are also awkward, at first, until one wears them for a while. We'll see.
	__________________ It's the holiday season, and you know what that means...Time to buy crap you don't need for people you don't like! Shop me! http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f1..._jewelrycraft/

31st July 2005, 10:48 AM	#8
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 16,656	Re: USAians? Quote: Originally posted by AmateurScientist Yes, all three nations comprise North America. Yes, there is a continent called South America. So? You've forgotten Central America, which is part of North America. Geographically, residents of both North and South America are Americans. But nobody uses the geographic sense of the word, any more than an American would call an Iranian "Asian" (although the British do) despite its geographical accuracy. People are generally named ethnically or politically, not geographically. Quote: No one ever called residents of the former USSR "USSRians." They were "Russians," whether that term was geographically accurate or not. You can hardly complain about disliking an accurate term for yourself while announcing yourself willing to deliberately mislabel others. I triple dog dare you to visit Chechnya and call them Russians. The USSR occupied a vast area and dozens if not hundreds of non-Russian peoples were part of it. A Uighur, an Armenian, and a Kazakh are not Russians. Calling them such is just plain lazy, as well as rude. People ought to be called what they are, not what is convenient for foreigners to remember. Although I agree with you about USAian. It's linguistically ugly and awkward. Over time, "American" has come to mean "United States" simply because "United States" doesn't lend itself to an easy term for people, in English anyway. If anything, it's Americans who should feel slighted by the term American, because our country name is so awkward that we had to default to the continent's name for a term for ourselves rather than having our own unique country name. eta: to correct a plural, that made it unintentionally hilarious.
	__________________ That is a surprisingly grumpy pig considering all the colorful flowers painted on him.

31st July 2005, 10:50 AM	#9
Tricky Radical centrist Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W bench Posts: 25,978	I've always thought that "Yanks" worked perfectly well. True, it is primarily British, but it is widely known and even the minor confusion with "Yankees" is hardly an issue. I know it has been occasionally used as a term of minor derision, but it is also used as a term of endearment (as in the song "Over There"). I agree that USAians is unweildy and unnecessary. Plus, when I first saw it I read it as USAsians, which would indicate Asian/Americans to me.

31st July 2005, 11:03 AM	#10
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 16,656	Quote: Originally posted by Tricky I've always thought that "Yanks" worked perfectly well. True, it is primarily British, but it is widely known and even the minor confusion with "Yankees" is hardly an issue. Argh! The problem is that American Southerners, like myself, get murderously resentful when mislabelled as Yankees. The word "Yank", however innocently intended by ignorant foreigners, is "fightin' words" because it implies "Yankee", and that is indeed an issue. And has been since the War of Northern Aggression.
	__________________ That is a surprisingly grumpy pig considering all the colorful flowers painted on him.

31st July 2005, 11:22 AM	#11
The Don Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Brizzle Posts: 3,527	I find that "Septics" works pretty well

31st July 2005, 01:07 PM	#12
Underemployed Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 764	Simple economy: shorter than 'North American' and geographically correct. How about some alternatives based on the same principles: USAns (YEW-sans) Namans (North Americans) (NAY-mans) (Also Namericans) Unians (YEW-ni-ans) We can combine these into: Unamericans (Yew-nuh-MER-ih-kans) or Unimans which contracts into: Unims, which may over time turn into the phonetic root Yoons (or perhaps Yoonies). Then there are the 'States' derivatives: Staters, Statesians, Statters, Stats, Statists (taken already), Statizens, Statniks, Stanians, Staners, Statesmen/women/people (taken) Stazers, Stazi (taken). If you insist on sticking with 'America' somewhere, we can all do better: Amen (taken), Amercs, Amerians, Merricks, Mercs (taken), Americs, Amers, Ames, Amish (taken). We can easily combine a few of these and still come up with something short, yet descriptive that will satisfy even the PC brigade: Ustaziamen (Yoo-stah-zi-A-men) Unstamers (Un-STAY-mers) Unistamicks (Yoo-ni-STAY-miks) It can only be a matter of time before one of these is adopted.
Underemployed Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 764	__________________ There is no punchy, conclusive final sentence for this post.

31st July 2005, 01:13 PM	#13
CapelDodger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cardiff, South Wales Posts: 14,000	Quote: Originally posted by TragicMonkey Argh! The problem is that American Southerners, like myself, get murderously resentful when mislabelled as Yankees. The word "Yank", however innocently intended by ignorant foreigners, is "fightin' words" because it implies "Yankee", and that is indeed an issue. And has been since the War of Northern Aggression. A question that's never occurred to me before : had Southern folk successfully resisted the forces of progress, what would they have called themselves? Rebs? (Over here, of course, we still refer to US "citizens" as Rebels, between ourselves.) Capel "Try poking it with a stick" Dodger
	__________________ It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150

31st July 2005, 01:26 PM	#14
slingblade 63% similar to you Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: In This Fog, Who Knows? Posts: 13,122	Quote: Originally posted by CapelDodger A question that's never occurred to me before : had Southern folk successfully resisted the forces of progress, what would they have called themselves? Slave owners.
	__________________ It's the holiday season, and you know what that means...Time to buy crap you don't need for people you don't like! Shop me! http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f1..._jewelrycraft/

31st July 2005, 01:34 PM	#15
The idea Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,547	Quote: Originally posted by Underemployed It can only be a matter of time before one of these is adopted. How about a word based on "Sam" as in "Uncle Sam." For example, Sammers Samicans Sammishers Samafarians
	__________________ I resolve to neither provoke nor appease evil.

31st July 2005, 01:37 PM	#16
CapelDodger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cardiff, South Wales Posts: 14,000	Quote: Originally posted by slingblade Slave owners. I didn't want to stir things up that much.
	__________________ It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150

31st July 2005, 01:42 PM	#17
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 16,656	Quote: Originally posted by CapelDodger A question that's never occurred to me before : had Southern folk successfully resisted the forces of progress, what would they have called themselves? Rebs? (Over here, of course, we still refer to US "citizens" as Rebels, between ourselves.) "Confederates", perhaps, after the name of the nation they tried to create. Although they would also have claim to "American", but I imagine they'd want to distinguish themselves from their neighbors. Someone's only a rebel until they succeed, in which case anyone still fighting is then the rebel. Ditto with revolutions; it always irritated me that the Soviets accused reformers of being "counter-revolutionaries" when the revolution had been over for decades.
	__________________ That is a surprisingly grumpy pig considering all the colorful flowers painted on him.

31st July 2005, 01:49 PM	#18
Tricky Radical centrist Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W bench Posts: 25,978	Quote: Originally posted by TragicMonkey Argh! The problem is that American Southerners, like myself, get murderously resentful when mislabelled as Yankees. The word "Yank", however innocently intended by ignorant foreigners, is "fightin' words" because it implies "Yankee", and that is indeed an issue. And has been since the War of Northern Aggression. Well, maybe you can bear it if you recall that Yanks are different from Yankees. Do you have any confusion differentiating between Turks and Turkeys? If so, I think I'll skip Thanksgiving at your house. (And as for the War of Southern Stupidity, get over it. Though I'm "born an bred" in Alabama, as far as I am concerned, there are no words worth fighting over. Actions, yes, words, no.)

31st July 2005, 01:53 PM	#19
CapelDodger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cardiff, South Wales Posts: 14,000	Quote: Originally posted by TragicMonkey "Confederates", perhaps, after the name of the nation they tried to create. Although they would also have claim to "American", but I imagine they'd want to distinguish themselves from their neighbors. In that light, I suppose they'd have called themselves Georgians, Virginians, Carolinans (Carolinians?) and so on. eta: Or Alabamans.
	__________________ It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150

31st July 2005, 01:54 PM	#20
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 16,656	Quote: Originally posted by Tricky Well, maybe you can bear it if you recall that Yanks are different from Yankees. Do you have any confusion differentiating between Turks and Turkeys? If so, I think I'll skip Thanksgiving at your house. I have an excellent recipe for Mustafa Kemal with stuffing. Served in a fez for irony. Quote: (And as for the War of Southern Stupidity, get over it. Though I'm "born an bred" in Alabama, as far as I am concerned, there are no words worth fighting over. Actions, yes, words, no.) Not even to defend ya honah, sah, as a gennelman? Shocking!
	__________________ That is a surprisingly grumpy pig considering all the colorful flowers painted on him.

31st July 2005, 01:57 PM	#21
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 16,656	Quote: Originally posted by CapelDodger In that light, I suppose they'd have called themselves Georgians, Virginians, Carolinans (Carolinians?) and so on. You're probably right. Back then, everyone, North and South, seemed to place more emphasis on their states than we do today. I wonder if, over time, we'll switch back the other way, and it will suddenly be more significant to be a Wisconsonianiteian than an American? I doubt it. The world has gotten bigger.
	__________________ That is a surprisingly grumpy pig considering all the colorful flowers painted on him.

31st July 2005, 02:10 PM	#22
Ryokan Insert something funny here Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 3,873	Re: USAians? Quote: Originally posted by AmateurScientist By convention, we say "the British," even though I suppose to unusually sensitive persons that might slight some Scottish persons or some Welsh persons or many of those who live in Northern Ireland. The perceived slights are unintentional, however, just as the conventional usage of British is not meant to slight residents of the UK outside of England or what was until only recently called "Great Britain." I'm surprised anyone hasn't mentioned this yet, but the Scots and the Welsh are British. Britain is an island that consists of England, Wales and Scotland. And the full name of the UK is United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, so I'm not sure what you mean by 'only recently called Great Britain'. Edit : Typo

31st July 2005, 02:15 PM	#23
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 16,656	Re: Re: USAians? Quote: Originally posted by Ryokan I'm surprised anyone hasn't mentioned this yet, but the Scots and the Welsh are British. Britain is an island that consists of England, Wales and Scotland. And the full name of the UK is United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, so I'm not sure what you mean by 'only recently called Great Britain'. I'd be willing to be called "Usaian" by the British if I can call them "Uks" in return.
	__________________ That is a surprisingly grumpy pig considering all the colorful flowers painted on him.

31st July 2005, 02:23 PM	#24
Ryokan Insert something funny here Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 3,873	Re: Re: Re: USAians? Quote: Originally posted by TragicMonkey I'd be willing to be called "Usaian" by the British if I can call them "Uks" in return. The completely correct would be to call them UKoGBaNRians. By the way, doesn't the Spanish word for 'person from USA' translate back into English as something like 'Unitedstatesian'?

31st July 2005, 02:34 PM	#25
mummymonkey Did you spill my pint? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,653	USAians is a new one to me. Never heard it spoken. I've seen Leftpondians but I'm not sure if that includes Canadians. Mostly you get called Yanks or Merkins.
	__________________ Knees bent, arms stretched, Ra! Ra! Ra!

31st July 2005, 02:37 PM	#26
Underemployed Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 764	Merkins???? Now there's an insult!
Underemployed Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 764	__________________ There is no punchy, conclusive final sentence for this post.

31st July 2005, 02:45 PM	#27
Ryokan Insert something funny here Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 3,873	Why use USAian, when there are so many terms that could easily substitute 'American'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensi...tes_of_America

31st July 2005, 02:57 PM	#28
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 16,656	Quote: Originally posted by Ryokan Why use USAian, when there are so many terms that could easily substitute 'American'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensi...tes_of_America From that site: Quote: Shatner-stealing Mexico touchers â€“ coined in the "Catch 'Em If You Can" episode of The Simpsons. Includes a reference to the fact that popular Star Trek actor William Shatner was born in Canada, the fact that the USA shares a border with Mexico, and further lobs offense at Mexico by the implication that "touching" it is somehow unpleasant. I'd love to be called a Shatner-Stealing Mexico Toucher! It's both classy, and true!
	__________________ That is a surprisingly grumpy pig considering all the colorful flowers painted on him.

31st July 2005, 03:17 PM	#29
AmateurScientist JREF Kid Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 5,319	Quote: Originally posted by Ryokan Why use USAian, when there are so many terms that could easily substitute 'American'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensi...tes_of_America Shouldn't you be insulted that there aren't any derogatory names listed for Norwegians? They do list some for Swedes. Oh well. Same thing I guess. AS

31st July 2005, 03:20 PM	#30
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 16,656	Quote: Originally posted by AmateurScientist They do list some for Swedes. Oh well. Same thing I guess. The 1919 edition of "The Hardy Boys" books I inherited, and read as a child, the term "Swede" was an insult in itself. The older editions of those books are hilariously racist against everybody. Especially the Irish, which is funny since they were written by an Irishman.
	__________________ That is a surprisingly grumpy pig considering all the colorful flowers painted on him.

31st July 2005, 03:23 PM	#31
Ryokan Insert something funny here Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 3,873	Quote: Originally posted by AmateurScientist Shouldn't you be insulted that there aren't any derogatory names listed for Norwegians? They do list some for Swedes. Oh well. Same thing I guess. AS Haha, thank you! That made me smile Of course there aren't any derogatory terms for Norwegians, we're all so nice and pleasant

31st July 2005, 03:33 PM	#32
CapelDodger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cardiff, South Wales Posts: 14,000	Quote: Originally posted by TragicMonkey You're probably right. Back then, everyone, North and South, seemed to place more emphasis on their states than we do today. I wonder if, over time, we'll switch back the other way, and it will suddenly be more significant to be a Wisconsonianiteian than an American? I doubt it. The world has gotten bigger. And scarier. I'm of the opinion that people will come to identify more with their locales than with nations, but since that accords with the way I prefer to see things I don't give the opinion much credence.
	__________________ It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150

31st July 2005, 03:39 PM	#33
Ryokan Insert something funny here Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 3,873	Quote: Originally posted by CapelDodger And scarier. I'm of the opinion that people will come to identify more with their locales than with nations, but since that accords with the way I prefer to see things I don't give the opinion much credence. Quite the opposite from me, then. I hope we all one day identify ourselves as Human

31st July 2005, 03:43 PM	#34
epepke Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 6,136	Re: USAians? Quote: Originally posted by AmateurScientist What's up with employing the awkward, downright goofy term "USAians?" A few years ago, it was USians. The argument, when stated, was that since there are either 3 or 2 1/2 continents called "America," "Americans" was inspecific. However, there is only one country in the Americas with "America" in its name, and there are two with "United States" in their names. "USAians" is kind of awkward because there's no one obvious way to pronounce "aia."
epepke Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 6,136	__________________ "It probably came from a sticky dark planet far, far away." - Godzilla versus Hedora

31st July 2005, 03:47 PM	#35
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 16,656	Re: Re: USAians? Quote: Originally posted by epepke "USAians" is kind of awkward because there's no one obvious way to pronounce "aia." I think "Oo-SAY-ans" sounds kind of cool. I'd drop my objections if they'd only capitalize the first letter and make it Usaians, rather than the mishmash of USAians. Plus it makes us sound like some kind of cool aliens or demons or something! "Buffy! The Usaians have the Key of Tardacktylos! You must slay the Usaian Queen before she opens the Gates of Korash!" or "Captain! We're picking up an Usaian vessel approaching at warp speed! Should I change into something skimpy and meet you in your quarters?"
	__________________ That is a surprisingly grumpy pig considering all the colorful flowers painted on him.