Dinosaurs on Noah's Ark

webfusion · 14th August 2005, 09:31 AM

Well, there has certainly been lively discussion here about the injection of teaching magical creationism (I-D) alongside science-based determination of evolutionary processes, but this news item caught my attention as being particularly nuts.
Museum of Earth History offers a display supporting the idea that Noah took dinosaurs onto the Ark

http://www.creationtruth.com/

Eureka Springs, Arkansas.

slingblade · 14th August 2005, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by webfusion
Well, there has certainly been lively discussion here about the injection of teaching magical creationism (I-D) alongside science-based determination of evolutionary processes, but this news item caught my attention as being particularly nuts.
Museum of Earth History offers a display supporting the idea that Noah took dinosaurs onto the Ark

http://www.creationtruth.com/

Eureka Springs, Arkansas.

Just an observation, but the location of this "museum" gives me considerable pause. I know Arkansas, as my father's family hails from there. Maybe not the buckle of the Bible Belt, but darned close.

My paternal grandparents (and most of their friends and relations) believed that dinosaur bones were put in the ground by the devil, to lead good Christians astray.

Just sayin'.

corplinx · 14th August 2005, 02:24 PM

One of the lesser known tasks given to Hercules was to go to Arkansas and find someone who family tree branched more than Hercules own. Hercules failed this task and it was revealed to have just been a joke as it was truly impossible Unfortunately this task isn't often included with anthologies such as Bullfinch.

Unabogie · 14th August 2005, 02:42 PM

I think some of them still contend that dinosaurs are a hoax.

Here, you too can build a 70 foot fossil out of chicken bones!

http://internet.ocii.com/~dpwozney/dinosaur.htm

zenith-nadir · 14th August 2005, 03:12 PM

The dimensions of the Ark given in Genesis chapter 6 verse 15: (cubit=1.5 feet)

Quote:

And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits

The Biblical Ark would have been 45 feet high, 75 feet in width, and 450 feet in length.

Therefore what was the total amount of water carried for the animals? The total weight of provisions? The total weight of vertebrates? Lets accept the premise that Noah took dinosaurs onto the Ark... say a couple 70-ton dinosaurs moved from starboard to port, what then?

Mycroft · 14th August 2005, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by zenith-nadir
Therefore what was the total amount of water carried for the animals?

Why would he need to carry water on the ark when he had such a huge supply falling from the sky?

zenith-nadir · 14th August 2005, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mycroft
Why would he need to carry water on the ark when he had such a huge supply falling from the sky?

Then the collected rainwater for the animals would still have to be factored into the total weight of the ark's payload.

Mycroft · 14th August 2005, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by zenith-nadir
Then the collected rainwater for the animals would still have to be factored into the total weight of the ark's payload.

You just have to factor in a lot less as a continuing supply means you don't need to carry a whole 40 days worth.

Just be sure you keep flushing those bilges.

webfusion · 14th August 2005, 09:01 PM

I was suddenly reminded of one of the classic routines by the comedian Bill Cosby, wherein he describes the entire scenario of Noah and the Ark.

http://www.jr.co.il/humor/noah4.txt

(BTW, jr is jacob richman, who runs a great resource site about Israel.)

slingblade · 14th August 2005, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mycroft
You just have to factor in a lot less as a continuing supply means you don't need to carry a whole 40 days worth.

From what I understand, and this is purely anecdotal, the phrase "40 days and 40 nights" simply means "a very long time."

Still, your point is a good one.
But I thought dinosaurs were extinct long before hominids showed up?

Anyway, yeah, it's all nuts.

Orwell · 14th August 2005, 11:08 PM

Dinosaurs went extinct 65 million years ago.

Underemployed · 15th August 2005, 04:22 AM

That's just what God wants you to think.

webfusion · 15th August 2005, 04:42 AM

"But I thought dinosaurs were extinct long before hominids showed up?"

You thought right. That's why this "Creation Truth" is a lie.

Underemployed says: That's just what God wants you to think.

Actually, as it is explained by the purveyors of this "truth", the bones of dinosaurs were placed in rock strata by the devil to lead mankind down a path of doubting the creation, and thus, doubting the power of god.

And so it goes...

Nonsense substituting for reality.

Manny · 15th August 2005, 05:58 AM

Well, hold on. Let's check the list.

green alligators
long-necked geese
humpty backed camels
chimpanzees
cats
rats
elephants

Nope. No dinosaurs. Unless you want to be pedantic and count the geese.

slingblade · 15th August 2005, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by manny
Well, hold on. Let's check the list.

green alligators
long-necked geese
humpty backed camels
chimpanzees
cats
rats
elephants

Nope. No dinosaurs. Unless you want to be pedantic and count the geese.

Great. Thanks for embedding this song into my brain.

Hawk one · 15th August 2005, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mycroft
You just have to factor in a lot less as a continuing supply means you don't need to carry a whole 40 days worth.

Just be sure you keep flushing those bilges.

It rained for 40 days and 40 nights, but they actually stayed in the ark for over a year.

A bit rusty on your bible knowledge, eh?

RandFan · 15th August 2005, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by slingblade
Great. Thanks for embedding this song into my brain.

Ditto.

Moon-Spinner · 15th August 2005, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by manny
Well, hold on. Let's check the list.

green alligators
long-necked geese
humpty backed camels
chimpanzees
cats
rats
elephants

Nope. No dinosaurs. Unless you want to be pedantic and count the geese.

Well, let's see, the Unicorn could be misconstrued for a Monoclonius, but since we ain't got no more unicorns, I guess we ain't got no more dinosaurs.

richardm · 15th August 2005, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hawk one
It rained for 40 days and 40 nights, but they actually stayed in the ark for over a year.

No, feeding animals for a year raises too many difficult questions that might cause doubt in some Believers' minds. This is the correct way to deal with such free-thinking heretics:

Quote:

Originally posted by slingblade
From what I understand, and this is purely anecdotal, the phrase "40 days and 40 nights" simply means "a very long time."

That's more like it! Anything that is a bit awkward is simply a problem with translation, remember? Well done to Brother Slingblade for keeping us right

Hawk one · 15th August 2005, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by richardm
No, feeding animals for a year raises too many difficult questions that might cause doubt in some Believers' minds. This is the correct way to deal with such free-thinking heretics:

That's more like it! Anything that is a bit awkward is simply a problem with translation, remember? Well done to Brother Slingblade for keeping us right

And let's not forget the trump card "God can do anything he wants!", and if someone points out the apparent lack of evidence, there's always the "Satan is responsible for that! You want Satan to get your soul and end up in eternal [size=3][/b]HELLFIRE?!?!?![size][/b]

Why do we spend time trying to overcome such magnificent and flawless arguments, richardm?

Beerina · 15th August 2005, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by slingblade
My paternal grandparents (and most of their friends and relations) believed that dinosaur bones were put in the ground by the devil, to lead good Christians astray.

Fair enough.

The next question comes, "Why would God throw into Hell people who were lead astray by a scientifically accurate world?" and "Is such a God deserving of worship?"

It is important to emphasize the bizarreness of this point. God allows the Devil to alter the world in such a way that a proper, logical, scientific analysis of it shows the Bible to be false -- yet it is the world that is a lie, and God wants you to believe the Bible.

Uhhhhhh...ok.

Beerina · 15th August 2005, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zenith-nadir
Then the collected rainwater for the animals would still have to be factored into the total weight of the ark's payload.

Actually I doubt the mixing with the ocean water would be enough to cause the salinity to be a problem. In other words, after adding some 5 miles of water to the surface of the Earth, a few months or whatever wouldn't be enough for mixture to occur. And even if you did, you're diluting all that salt by roughly 22x, which may be drinkable, at least for a few months. (Rough calculation as to mixing 2 miles of ocean over 72% of the surface of the earth with a 5 miles deep freshwater ocean over the entire earth.) Maybe a little less since the new average won't be 5 miles, but perhaps 4.5, depending on average land surface area and you only need to cover the tip of Everest. Let's say 18x dilution

slingblade · 15th August 2005, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Beerina
Fair enough.

The next question comes, "Why would God throw into Hell people who were lead astray by a scientifically accurate world?" and "Is such a God deserving of worship?"

It is important to emphasize the bizarreness of this point. God allows the Devil to alter the world in such a way that a proper, logical, scientific analysis of it shows the Bible to be false -- yet it is the world that is a lie, and God wants you to believe the Bible.

Uhhhhhh...ok.

Are you trying to take on, through me, what my (now dead) grandparents believed as if I, too believe it?

Because I don't.

I'm atheist.

seayakin · 15th August 2005, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by zenith-nadir
Lets accept the premise that Noah took dinosaurs onto the Ark... say a couple 70-ton dinosaurs moved from starboard to port, what then?

You are forgetting that Noah and his sons perfected the eskimo roll. I give them credit. When I want to get a you want a bomb proof roll you go to Noah.

Either that or the ark had one helluva set of outriggers.

fishbob · 15th August 2005, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mycroft
You just have to factor in a lot less as a continuing supply means you don't need to carry a whole 40 days worth.

Just be sure you keep flushing those bilges.

The bilge pump was not invented until approximately 2000 years later. A scared man with a bucket is supposed to be pretty efficient at keeping water out of a sinking boat. A disgusted man with a bucket might not be so effective at getting other fluids out of a stinking boat.

slingblade · 15th August 2005, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by richardm
No, feeding animals for a year raises too many difficult questions that might cause doubt in some Believers' minds.
That's more like it! Anything that is a bit awkward is simply a problem with translation, remember? Well done to Brother Slingblade for keeping us right

SISTER Slingblade, thanks.

And once again, I don't believe Thumper dictum.
I'm only saying I've heard that "40 days and 40 nights" isn't literal.

It hardly makes me a Jesus Freak, and I don't even know I'm correct. Anecdotal, 'member?

Ashles · 15th August 2005, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hawk one
And let's not forget the trump card "God can do anything he wants!"

Well that's one of my questions about the whole flood story - why did God have to drown everyone?

He could have just made them all instantly dead or disappear, rather than forcing them to spend their last few minutes terrified and suffocating/drowning. That's just sadistic.

And what of all the new born babies? Why did they all have to die?

Come to think of it, surely Noah wasn't the only good man on earth?

And why kill all the innocent animals?

And... and...

Calm down dear, it's only a story.

delphi_ote · 15th August 2005, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by slingblade
My paternal grandparents (and most of their friends and relations) believed that dinosaur bones were put in the ground by the devil, to lead good Christians astray.

As the great Bill Hicks once said:

Quote:

Fundamentalist Christians believe the world is 12 thousand years old... I asked this guy, I said: "Come on, man, dinosaur fossils. What's the deal?" He goes, "God put those here to test our faith."

"I think God put you here to test my faith, dude."

slingblade · 15th August 2005, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by delphi_ote
As the great Bill Hicks once said:

Fundamentalist Christians believe the world is 12 thousand years old... I asked this guy, I said: "Come on, man, dinosaur fossils. What's the deal?" He goes, "God put those here to test our faith."

"I think God put you here to test my faith, dude."

I began asking questions about my religion when I was a mere slip of a girl. One thing no one could ever explain, at least in a way that made sense to me:

If God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, why does he need to test me, when he obviously already knows I'll either fail or succeed?

I don't call such things "tests." I'd call them "torture," if I still believed.

SezMe · 15th August 2005, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Beerina
Actually I doubt the mixing with the ocean water would be enough to cause the salinity to be a problem. In other words, after adding some 5 miles of water to the surface of the Earth, a few months or whatever wouldn't be enough for mixture to occur. And even if you did, you're diluting all that salt by roughly 22x, which may be drinkable, at least for a few months. (Rough calculation as to mixing 2 miles of ocean over 72% of the surface of the earth with a 5 miles deep freshwater ocean over the entire earth.) Maybe a little less since the new average won't be 5 miles, but perhaps 4.5, depending on average land surface area and you only need to cover the tip of Everest. Let's say 18x dilution

Jeeeebus, Beerina, you're trying to think logically about this. Get with the program...believe. I mean BELIEVE. Just BELIEVE. If 1"Christ was still around, he'd condemn you to hellfire.

richardm · 16th August 2005, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by slingblade
SISTER Slingblade, thanks.

Oops, sorry!

Quote:

And once again, I don't believe Thumper dictum.
I'm only saying I've heard that "40 days and 40 nights" isn't literal.

Funnily enough, I had gathered that

But nevertheless it is a tactic that is used. If you are sufficiently gullible, then X days is all it took, mallum? If you say "But that hardly sounds credible", then it becomes "Oh, well, when they say 'Day' they mean 'Period', or 'That is just shorthand for "Long Time'." Quite pathetic really.

Quote:

Anecdotal, 'member?

Is this some sort of veiled sexual insult?

Jaggy Bunnet · 16th August 2005, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Beerina
Actually I doubt the mixing with the ocean water would be enough to cause the salinity to be a problem. In other words, after adding some 5 miles of water to the surface of the Earth, a few months or whatever wouldn't be enough for mixture to occur. And even if you did, you're diluting all that salt by roughly 22x, which may be drinkable, at least for a few months. (Rough calculation as to mixing 2 miles of ocean over 72% of the surface of the earth with a 5 miles deep freshwater ocean over the entire earth.) Maybe a little less since the new average won't be 5 miles, but perhaps 4.5, depending on average land surface area and you only need to cover the tip of Everest. Let's say 18x dilution

Your workings above are missing a very important point.

What about the homeopathic impact of such a dilution? As the existing ocean contained a small quantity of fish (by volume) and was then diluted by the flood water, drinking the flood water would result in homeopathic eating of fish, thereby solving the problem of the Ark needing to carry food supplies for all the animals.

karl · 16th August 2005, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Beerina
Actually I doubt the mixing with the ocean water would be enough to cause the salinity to be a problem. In other words, after adding some 5 miles of water to the surface of the Earth [...]

5 miles in 40 days and 40 nights? That's over 27 feet per hour, which unless I'm mistaken is a few hundred times more intense than any rainfall that occurs naturally on the planet. Has anyone tested what this would do to a boat or any other alleged wooden structure of the time?

Jaggy Bunnet · 16th August 2005, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by karl
5 miles in 40 days and 40 nights? That's over 27 feet per hour, which unless I'm mistaken is a few hundred times more intense than any rainfall that occurs naturally on the planet. Has anyone tested what this would do to a boat or any other alleged wooden structure of the time?

If the flood lasted 40 days and 40 nights, surely you need to allow some time for the water to evaporate? Therefore the rate of fall would need to be considerably higher than you calculate.

Manny · 16th August 2005, 06:21 AM

Well, remember, you've got the "all the springs of the great deep burst(ing) forth." So not all that water was coming from above.

Beerina · 16th August 2005, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by slingblade
Are you trying to take on, through me, what my (now dead) grandparents believed as if I, too believe it?

Because I don't.

I'm atheist.

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound attacking. I just enjoy constructing the logical consequences from positions.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jaggy Bunnet
If the flood lasted 40 days and 40 nights, surely you need to allow some time for the water to evaporate? Therefore the rate of fall would need to be considerably higher than you calculate.

It rained for that time. Evidently it took over a year for the water to evaporate. Actually, that's impossible, too. The atmosphere couldn't hold 5 miles of liquid water in vapor form. Therefore some must have drained down into The Underworld.

27 feet per hour would be quite a problem for uncovered boats -- you'd have to bail awfully fast.

And presumably God deliberately capsized what were no doubt thousands of covered boats, lest they survive the flood, too. Heck, probably tens of thousands. Even if every single person on land were too stupid to go get on a boat when it started flooding, there were still many out at sea, and thus well-provisioned. And many were fishing, which could continue to catch fish to survive indefinitely, although most saltwater fish would have died due to the massive change in salinity (I presume. IANAB.) And the vast disturbances in ocean patterns, combined with lack of landmarks would make knowing where to fish very difficult indeed.

Beerina · 16th August 2005, 07:36 AM

Wait, I forgot about the Eskimos hanging out on the ice in the Arctic. That would have just floated higher and higher. They wouldn't have even noticed as the air would have been pushed up, too, and thus atmospheric pressure would have stayed roughly the same.

Maybe God slew them, too, by sending the polar bears around. He's been known to kill people with bears before.

Hey, shouldn't there be Antarctic ice core layers that indicate a flood (or layer of mildly salt water) being deposited well to the interior of the continent? Or if all the ice there floated off the land, underneath on the bottom of it?

Presumably God erased that evidence, lest it prove His existence. Or maybe the Devil erased it, lest it prove God's existence. What man can judge the mind of God?

richardm · 16th August 2005, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Beerina
Wait, I forgot about the Eskimos hanging out on the ice in the Arctic. That would have just floated higher and higher. They wouldn't have even noticed as the air would have been pushed up, too, and thus atmospheric pressure would have stayed roughly the same.

Maybe God slew them, too

Yes, all the Eskimos died, because by your own calculations they were suddenly five miles higher and everyone knows that it is very cold when you are high up, and it's cold to start with in the Arctic so they would have died.

All the polar bears and penguins died as well. The polar bears walked back there from Mt. Ararat, but the penguins found it too far to walk with their short legs and so are only found at the South Pole today, which is nearer to Mt. Ararat, especially if you use maps and measurements contemporary to the flood, which were notoriously inaccurate.

If this is not strong evidence, I don't know what is.

Skeptical Greg · 16th August 2005, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Beerina
Actually I doubt the mixing with the ocean water would be enough to cause the salinity to be a problem. In other words, after adding some 5 miles of water to the surface of the Earth, a few months or whatever wouldn't be enough for mixture to occur. And even if you did, you're diluting all that salt by roughly 22x, which may be drinkable, at least for a few months. (Rough calculation as to mixing 2 miles of ocean over 72% of the surface of the earth with a 5 miles deep freshwater ocean over the entire earth.) Maybe a little less since the new average won't be 5 miles, but perhaps 4.5, depending on average land surface area and you only need to cover the tip of Everest. Let's say 18x dilution

O.K., You have dealt with the fresh drinking water problem.. Now deal with what happened to the salt-water fish...

seayakin · 16th August 2005, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by richardm
but the penguins found it too far to walk with their short legs and so are only found at the South Pole today

Um, penguins do swim long distances and eat fish so maybe they just swam for 40 days and 40 nights.

14th August 2005, 09:31 AM	#1
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Near I-95 Posts: 6,216	Dinosaurs on Noah's Ark Well, there has certainly been lively discussion here about the injection of teaching magical creationism (I-D) alongside science-based determination of evolutionary processes, but this news item caught my attention as being particularly nuts. Museum of Earth History offers a display supporting the idea that Noah took dinosaurs onto the Ark http://www.creationtruth.com/ Eureka Springs, Arkansas.

14th August 2005, 11:28 AM	#2
slingblade Guest Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,642	Re: Dinosaurs on Noah's Ark Quote: Originally posted by webfusion Well, there has certainly been lively discussion here about the injection of teaching magical creationism (I-D) alongside science-based determination of evolutionary processes, but this news item caught my attention as being particularly nuts. Museum of Earth History offers a display supporting the idea that Noah took dinosaurs onto the Ark http://www.creationtruth.com/ Eureka Springs, Arkansas. Just an observation, but the location of this "museum" gives me considerable pause. I know Arkansas, as my father's family hails from there. Maybe not the buckle of the Bible Belt, but darned close. My paternal grandparents (and most of their friends and relations) believed that dinosaur bones were put in the ground by the devil, to lead good Christians astray. Just sayin'.
slingblade Guest Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,642

14th August 2005, 02:24 PM	#3
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	One of the lesser known tasks given to Hercules was to go to Arkansas and find someone who family tree branched more than Hercules own. Hercules failed this task and it was revealed to have just been a joke as it was truly impossible Unfortunately this task isn't often included with anthologies such as Bullfinch.
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	__________________ In the tradition of "Stop Silvia!" Stop Hal Bidlack: http://skepticalcommunity.com/forums...hp?f=1&t=28671

14th August 2005, 03:12 PM	#5
zenith-nadir Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,500	The dimensions of the Ark given in Genesis chapter 6 verse 15: (cubit=1.5 feet) Quote: And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits The Biblical Ark would have been 45 feet high, 75 feet in width, and 450 feet in length. Therefore what was the total amount of water carried for the animals? The total weight of provisions? The total weight of vertebrates? Lets accept the premise that Noah took dinosaurs onto the Ark... say a couple 70-ton dinosaurs moved from starboard to port, what then?
	__________________ The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled. -- Plutarch

14th August 2005, 03:41 PM	#6
Mycroft High Priest of Ed Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 16,103	Quote: Originally posted by zenith-nadir Therefore what was the total amount of water carried for the animals? Why would he need to carry water on the ark when he had such a huge supply falling from the sky?
	__________________ Surely Israel is the party to blame? -a_unique_person I do have Mycroft on ignore, he is pretty much the Matt Giwer of your side. -a_unique_person Palestinian Refugees

14th August 2005, 02:42 PM	#4
Unabogie Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 5,840	I think some of them still contend that dinosaurs are a hoax. Here, you too can build a 70 foot fossil out of chicken bones! http://internet.ocii.com/~dpwozney/dinosaur.htm

14th August 2005, 04:29 PM	#7
zenith-nadir Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,500	Quote: Originally posted by Mycroft Why would he need to carry water on the ark when he had such a huge supply falling from the sky? Then the collected rainwater for the animals would still have to be factored into the total weight of the ark's payload.
	__________________ The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled. -- Plutarch

14th August 2005, 04:35 PM	#8
Mycroft High Priest of Ed Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 16,103	Quote: Originally posted by zenith-nadir Then the collected rainwater for the animals would still have to be factored into the total weight of the ark's payload. You just have to factor in a lot less as a continuing supply means you don't need to carry a whole 40 days worth. Just be sure you keep flushing those bilges.
	__________________ Surely Israel is the party to blame? -a_unique_person I do have Mycroft on ignore, he is pretty much the Matt Giwer of your side. -a_unique_person Palestinian Refugees

14th August 2005, 09:01 PM	#9
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Near I-95 Posts: 6,216	Bill Cosby I was suddenly reminded of one of the classic routines by the comedian Bill Cosby, wherein he describes the entire scenario of Noah and the Ark. http://www.jr.co.il/humor/noah4.txt (BTW, jr is jacob richman, who runs a great resource site about Israel.)

14th August 2005, 10:35 PM	#10
slingblade Guest Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,642	Quote: Originally posted by Mycroft You just have to factor in a lot less as a continuing supply means you don't need to carry a whole 40 days worth. From what I understand, and this is purely anecdotal, the phrase "40 days and 40 nights" simply means "a very long time." Still, your point is a good one. But I thought dinosaurs were extinct long before hominids showed up? Anyway, yeah, it's all nuts.
slingblade Guest Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,642

14th August 2005, 11:08 PM	#11
Orwell Nattering Nabob of Negativism Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,364	Dinosaurs went extinct 65 million years ago.
	__________________ Charles de Gaulle fut arrêté par des journalistes devant un graffiti disant "mort aux cons". Il commenta: "Vaste programme..."

15th August 2005, 04:22 AM	#12
Underemployed Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 764	That's just what God wants you to think.
Underemployed Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 764	__________________ There is no punchy, conclusive final sentence for this post.

15th August 2005, 04:42 AM	#13
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Near I-95 Posts: 6,216	timeline "But I thought dinosaurs were extinct long before hominids showed up?" You thought right. That's why this "Creation Truth" is a lie. Underemployed says: That's just what God wants you to think. Actually, as it is explained by the purveyors of this "truth", the bones of dinosaurs were placed in rock strata by the devil to lead mankind down a path of doubting the creation, and thus, doubting the power of god. And so it goes... Nonsense substituting for reality.

15th August 2005, 05:58 AM	#14
Manny Illuminator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3,295	Well, hold on. Let's check the list. green alligators long-necked geese humpty backed camels chimpanzees cats rats elephants Nope. No dinosaurs. Unless you want to be pedantic and count the geese.
Manny Illuminator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3,295

15th August 2005, 07:29 AM	#15
slingblade Guest Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,642	Quote: Originally posted by manny Well, hold on. Let's check the list. green alligators long-necked geese humpty backed camels chimpanzees cats rats elephants Nope. No dinosaurs. Unless you want to be pedantic and count the geese. Great. Thanks for embedding this song into my brain.
slingblade Guest Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,642

15th August 2005, 07:33 AM	#16
Hawk one Emperor of the Internet Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Right below The Hat. Posts: 12,844	Quote: Originally posted by Mycroft You just have to factor in a lot less as a continuing supply means you don't need to carry a whole 40 days worth. Just be sure you keep flushing those bilges. It rained for 40 days and 40 nights, but they actually stayed in the ark for over a year. A bit rusty on your bible knowledge, eh?
	__________________ Boynott everything! Roxane - My evil feeds on your hatred. I am like a big evil thing that feasts on hatred and probably also fear. Nom nom. Roxane is a ninja star without me.

15th August 2005, 07:42 AM	#17
RandFan Mormon Atheist Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern California Posts: 53,086	Quote: Originally posted by slingblade Great. Thanks for embedding this song into my brain. Ditto.
	__________________ Ego, ain't it a bitch? It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion. --Adam Smith

15th August 2005, 07:42 AM	#18
Moon-Spinner Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Within a star too far to dream of Posts: 1,481	Quote: Originally posted by manny Well, hold on. Let's check the list. green alligators long-necked geese humpty backed camels chimpanzees cats rats elephants Nope. No dinosaurs. Unless you want to be pedantic and count the geese. Well, let's see, the Unicorn could be misconstrued for a Monoclonius, but since we ain't got no more unicorns, I guess we ain't got no more dinosaurs.

15th August 2005, 09:11 AM	#19
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,270	Quote: Originally posted by Hawk one It rained for 40 days and 40 nights, but they actually stayed in the ark for over a year. No, feeding animals for a year raises too many difficult questions that might cause doubt in some Believers' minds. This is the correct way to deal with such free-thinking heretics: Quote: Originally posted by slingblade From what I understand, and this is purely anecdotal, the phrase "40 days and 40 nights" simply means "a very long time." That's more like it! Anything that is a bit awkward is simply a problem with translation, remember? Well done to Brother Slingblade for keeping us right
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,270	__________________ Rimmer: Look at her! Magnificent woman! Very prim, very proper, almost austere. Some people took her for cold, thought she was aloof. Not a bit of it. She just despised fools. Quite tragic, really, because otherwise I think we'd have got on famously.

15th August 2005, 09:18 AM	#20
Hawk one Emperor of the Internet Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Right below The Hat. Posts: 12,844	Quote: Originally posted by richardm No, feeding animals for a year raises too many difficult questions that might cause doubt in some Believers' minds. This is the correct way to deal with such free-thinking heretics: That's more like it! Anything that is a bit awkward is simply a problem with translation, remember? Well done to Brother Slingblade for keeping us right And let's not forget the trump card "God can do anything he wants!", and if someone points out the apparent lack of evidence, there's always the "Satan is responsible for that! You want Satan to get your soul and end up in eternal [size=3][/b]HELLFIRE?!?!?![size][/b] Why do we spend time trying to overcome such magnificent and flawless arguments, richardm?
	__________________ Boynott everything! Roxane - My evil feeds on your hatred. I am like a big evil thing that feasts on hatred and probably also fear. Nom nom. Roxane is a ninja star without me.

15th August 2005, 09:30 AM	#21
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	Re: Re: Dinosaurs on Noah's Ark Quote: Originally posted by slingblade My paternal grandparents (and most of their friends and relations) believed that dinosaur bones were put in the ground by the devil, to lead good Christians astray. Fair enough. The next question comes, "Why would God throw into Hell people who were lead astray by a scientifically accurate world?" and "Is such a God deserving of worship?" It is important to emphasize the bizarreness of this point. God allows the Devil to alter the world in such a way that a proper, logical, scientific analysis of it shows the Bible to be false -- yet it is the world that is a lie, and God wants you to believe the Bible. Uhhhhhh...ok.
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

15th August 2005, 09:46 AM	#22
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	Quote: Originally posted by zenith-nadir Then the collected rainwater for the animals would still have to be factored into the total weight of the ark's payload. Actually I doubt the mixing with the ocean water would be enough to cause the salinity to be a problem. In other words, after adding some 5 miles of water to the surface of the Earth, a few months or whatever wouldn't be enough for mixture to occur. And even if you did, you're diluting all that salt by roughly 22x, which may be drinkable, at least for a few months. (Rough calculation as to mixing 2 miles of ocean over 72% of the surface of the earth with a 5 miles deep freshwater ocean over the entire earth.) Maybe a little less since the new average won't be 5 miles, but perhaps 4.5, depending on average land surface area and you only need to cover the tip of Everest. Let's say 18x dilution
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

15th August 2005, 11:22 AM	#23
slingblade Guest Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,642	Re: Re: Re: Dinosaurs on Noah's Ark Quote: Originally posted by Beerina Fair enough. The next question comes, "Why would God throw into Hell people who were lead astray by a scientifically accurate world?" and "Is such a God deserving of worship?" It is important to emphasize the bizarreness of this point. God allows the Devil to alter the world in such a way that a proper, logical, scientific analysis of it shows the Bible to be false -- yet it is the world that is a lie, and God wants you to believe the Bible. Uhhhhhh...ok. Are you trying to take on, through me, what my (now dead) grandparents believed as if I, too believe it? Because I don't. I'm atheist.
slingblade Guest Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,642

15th August 2005, 12:30 PM	#24
seayakin Muse Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Somewhere on a wave in the North Atlantic Posts: 857	Quote: Originally posted by zenith-nadir Lets accept the premise that Noah took dinosaurs onto the Ark... say a couple 70-ton dinosaurs moved from starboard to port, what then? You are forgetting that Noah and his sons perfected the eskimo roll. I give them credit. When I want to get a you want a bomb proof roll you go to Noah. Either that or the ark had one helluva set of outriggers.
	__________________ "I kayak, therefore I am"

15th August 2005, 12:56 PM	#25
fishbob Seasonally Disaffected Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chilly Undieville Posts: 5,666	Quote: Originally posted by Mycroft You just have to factor in a lot less as a continuing supply means you don't need to carry a whole 40 days worth. Just be sure you keep flushing those bilges. The bilge pump was not invented until approximately 2000 years later. A scared man with a bucket is supposed to be pretty efficient at keeping water out of a sinking boat. A disgusted man with a bucket might not be so effective at getting other fluids out of a stinking boat.
	__________________ When you believe in things you don't understand, then you suffer . . . " - Stevie Wonder "Stupidity - a callow indifference to facts or data" - Stuart Firestein -neuroscientist. I hate bigots.

15th August 2005, 01:22 PM	#26
slingblade Guest Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,642	Quote: Originally posted by richardm No, feeding animals for a year raises too many difficult questions that might cause doubt in some Believers' minds. That's more like it! Anything that is a bit awkward is simply a problem with translation, remember? Well done to Brother Slingblade for keeping us right SISTER Slingblade, thanks. And once again, I don't believe Thumper dictum. I'm only saying I've heard that "40 days and 40 nights" isn't literal. It hardly makes me a Jesus Freak, and I don't even know I'm correct. Anecdotal, 'member?
slingblade Guest Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,642

15th August 2005, 01:34 PM	#27
Ashles Pith Artist Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The '80s Posts: 8,711	Quote: Originally posted by Hawk one And let's not forget the trump card "God can do anything he wants!" Well that's one of my questions about the whole flood story - why did God have to drown everyone? He could have just made them all instantly dead or disappear, rather than forcing them to spend their last few minutes terrified and suffocating/drowning. That's just sadistic. And what of all the new born babies? Why did they all have to die? Come to think of it, surely Noah wasn't the only good man on earth? And why kill all the innocent animals? And... and... Calm down dear, it's only a story.
	__________________ With extraordinary few exceptions no educated person in the history of Western Civilization from the third century B.C. onward believed that the earth was flat. - Jeffrey Burton Russell No one "proved" that a bumblebee can't fly. What was shown was that a certain simple mathematical model wasn't adequate or appropriate - Ivars Peterson

15th August 2005, 09:54 PM	#28
delphi_ote Debunking Ninja Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 6,006	Re: Re: Dinosaurs on Noah's Ark Quote: Originally posted by slingblade My paternal grandparents (and most of their friends and relations) believed that dinosaur bones were put in the ground by the devil, to lead good Christians astray. As the great Bill Hicks once said: Quote: Fundamentalist Christians believe the world is 12 thousand years old... I asked this guy, I said: "Come on, man, dinosaur fossils. What's the deal?" He goes, "God put those here to test our faith." "I think God put you here to test my faith, dude."
	__________________ And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

15th August 2005, 10:19 PM	#29
slingblade Guest Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,642	Re: Re: Re: Dinosaurs on Noah's Ark Quote: Originally posted by delphi_ote As the great Bill Hicks once said: Fundamentalist Christians believe the world is 12 thousand years old... I asked this guy, I said: "Come on, man, dinosaur fossils. What's the deal?" He goes, "God put those here to test our faith." "I think God put you here to test my faith, dude." I began asking questions about my religion when I was a mere slip of a girl. One thing no one could ever explain, at least in a way that made sense to me: If God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, why does he need to test me, when he obviously already knows I'll either fail or succeed? I don't call such things "tests." I'd call them "torture," if I still believed.
slingblade Guest Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,642

15th August 2005, 11:47 PM	#30
SezMe post-pre-born Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 16,370	Quote: Originally posted by Beerina Actually I doubt the mixing with the ocean water would be enough to cause the salinity to be a problem. In other words, after adding some 5 miles of water to the surface of the Earth, a few months or whatever wouldn't be enough for mixture to occur. And even if you did, you're diluting all that salt by roughly 22x, which may be drinkable, at least for a few months. (Rough calculation as to mixing 2 miles of ocean over 72% of the surface of the earth with a 5 miles deep freshwater ocean over the entire earth.) Maybe a little less since the new average won't be 5 miles, but perhaps 4.5, depending on average land surface area and you only need to cover the tip of Everest. Let's say 18x dilution Jeeeebus, Beerina, you're trying to think logically about this. Get with the program...believe. I mean BELIEVE. Just BELIEVE. If 1"Christ was still around, he'd condemn you to hellfire.

16th August 2005, 03:53 AM	#31
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,270	Quote: Originally posted by slingblade SISTER Slingblade, thanks. Oops, sorry! Quote: And once again, I don't believe Thumper dictum. I'm only saying I've heard that "40 days and 40 nights" isn't literal. Funnily enough, I had gathered that But nevertheless it is a tactic that is used. If you are sufficiently gullible, then X days is all it took, mallum? If you say "But that hardly sounds credible", then it becomes "Oh, well, when they say 'Day' they mean 'Period', or 'That is just shorthand for "Long Time'." Quite pathetic really. Quote: Anecdotal, 'member? Is this some sort of veiled sexual insult?
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,270	__________________ Rimmer: Look at her! Magnificent woman! Very prim, very proper, almost austere. Some people took her for cold, thought she was aloof. Not a bit of it. She just despised fools. Quite tragic, really, because otherwise I think we'd have got on famously.

16th August 2005, 04:16 AM	#32
Jaggy Bunnet Philosopher Join Date: May 2003 Location: Sunny Leith Posts: 6,146	Quote: Originally posted by Beerina Actually I doubt the mixing with the ocean water would be enough to cause the salinity to be a problem. In other words, after adding some 5 miles of water to the surface of the Earth, a few months or whatever wouldn't be enough for mixture to occur. And even if you did, you're diluting all that salt by roughly 22x, which may be drinkable, at least for a few months. (Rough calculation as to mixing 2 miles of ocean over 72% of the surface of the earth with a 5 miles deep freshwater ocean over the entire earth.) Maybe a little less since the new average won't be 5 miles, but perhaps 4.5, depending on average land surface area and you only need to cover the tip of Everest. Let's say 18x dilution Your workings above are missing a very important point. What about the homeopathic impact of such a dilution? As the existing ocean contained a small quantity of fish (by volume) and was then diluted by the flood water, drinking the flood water would result in homeopathic eating of fish, thereby solving the problem of the Ark needing to carry food supplies for all the animals.

16th August 2005, 06:00 AM	#33
karl Thinker Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Uppsala Posts: 231	Quote: Originally posted by Beerina Actually I doubt the mixing with the ocean water would be enough to cause the salinity to be a problem. In other words, after adding some 5 miles of water to the surface of the Earth [...] 5 miles in 40 days and 40 nights? That's over 27 feet per hour, which unless I'm mistaken is a few hundred times more intense than any rainfall that occurs naturally on the planet. Has anyone tested what this would do to a boat or any other alleged wooden structure of the time?

16th August 2005, 06:06 AM	#34
Jaggy Bunnet Philosopher Join Date: May 2003 Location: Sunny Leith Posts: 6,146	Quote: Originally posted by karl 5 miles in 40 days and 40 nights? That's over 27 feet per hour, which unless I'm mistaken is a few hundred times more intense than any rainfall that occurs naturally on the planet. Has anyone tested what this would do to a boat or any other alleged wooden structure of the time? If the flood lasted 40 days and 40 nights, surely you need to allow some time for the water to evaporate? Therefore the rate of fall would need to be considerably higher than you calculate.

16th August 2005, 06:21 AM	#35
Manny Illuminator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3,295	Well, remember, you've got the "all the springs of the great deep burst(ing) forth." So not all that water was coming from above.
Manny Illuminator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3,295