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#1 |
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Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,824
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Why didn't the FDA say anything about cigarettes being spiked to cause addiction?
On 8 May 1998, the State of Minnesota reached a historic settlement with the tobacco industry. One of the many terms of the settlement which were favourable to public health was the agreement extracted from the tobacco industry to place nearly all the tobacco industry documents produced during the trial discovery proceedings on the public record.
This resulted in some 40 million pages of documents becoming public: 33 million at a document depository in Minnesota and another 7 million at a depository in Guildford, England. The Guildford depository is in the offices of British-American Tobacco (BAT) and is exclusively documents from the operations of BAT and its affiliates. The flow of previously secret tobacco industry documents into the public domain started as a trickle in 1989 and 1990 at a trial in Montreal. http://www.smoke-free.ca/documents/Manipulation1.htm 'Impact Booster': Tobacco Firm Shows How Ammonia Spurs Delivery of Nicotine Brown & Williamson Papers Claim Wide Industry Use Of Additive in Cigarettes Leading U.S. tobacco companies enhance nicotine delivery to smokers by adding ammonia-based compounds to their cigarettes, according to two major internal reports by Brown & Williamson Tobacco Corp. The $45 billion tobacco industry vehemently denies that it seeks to keep smokers hooked by increasing nicotine levels in cigarettes. But the confidential reports obtained by this newspaper indicate that, while cigarette makers may not bolster nicotine content per se, most are adding chemicals that increase the potency of the nicotine a smoker actually inhales. http://www.pulitzer.org/year/1996/na...ks/impact.html "I am a whistle-blower," he says. "I am notorious. It is a kind of infamy doing what I am doing, isn't that what they say?" It was never Jeffrey Wigand's ambition to become a central figure in the great social chronicle of the tobacco wars. In two days Wigand, the former head of research and development (R&D) at the Brown & Williamson Tobacco Corp., will be on the front page of The Wall Street Journal for the second time in a week. Five days from now, he will be on 60 Minutes. http://www.mariebrenner.com/articles/insider/man1.html _____ Why didn't the FDA say anything for decades about the genetic manipulation of tobacco and addition of chemicals to cigarettes? What else does the FDA know about food, beverages and drugs they don't want anyone else to know? |
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#2 |
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NWO Master Conspirator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Albany Park, Chicago
Posts: 49,135
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Re: Why didn't the FDA say anything about cigarettes being spiked to cause addiction?
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Yankee Hotel Foxtrot The carp is in the pond. Understand? |
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#3 |
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god
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,691
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Re: Why didn't the FDA say anything about cigarettes being spiked to cause addiction?
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"The history of science is the record of dead religions" Phrases And Philosophies For The Use Of The Young Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) Our Guarentee: One obscure (or not) Python reference per day. |
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#4 |
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Seeking Honesty and Sanity
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,294
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Re: Re: Why didn't the FDA say anything about cigarettes being spiked to cause addiction?
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It was decided many years ago that cigarettes are not a food, not a drink, and not a drug, therefore they are not subject to FDA regulation. Which is a good thing for the cigarette manufacturers because otherwise they would have been out of a job decades ago. |
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A man's best friend is his dogma. |
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#5 |
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526a0118ae8c43594f3cfdcabb3274ed
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,319
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Those awful, evil cigarette companies! Next thing you know, they'll try something really evil and dastardly. Like selling a legal product...
(In case you are wondering: No, I don't smoke. Never have.) |
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#6 |
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Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Twin Cities, Canada
Posts: 12,184
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The Supreme Court ruled on the extent of the FDA's jurisdiction in FDA v. Brown & Williamson Tobacco Corp. This was a 5-4 decision. It is just coincidence that all of the court's smokers agreed that Congress had not given the FDA jurisdiction to regulate cigarettes.
The FDA tried to assert jurisdiction over tobacco under its statutory authority to regulate "drugs," which include "articles (other than food) intended to affect the structure or any function of the body," and "devices," which include "an instrument, apparatus, implement, machine, contrivance, ... or other similar or related article, including any component, part, or accessory, which is ... intended to affect the structure or any function of the body." The FDA determined that nicotine was a "drug" and that a cigarette was a "device" that was intended to affect the structure or any function of the body. The Supreme Court said the FDA was wrong. The logic by which the Court reached this conclusion was, however, rather strange. The Court observed that the FDA's basic duty was to make products safe and effective for their intended uses. The FDA can regulate any drug or device where the "potential for inflicting death or physical injury is not offset by the possibility of therapeutic benefit," said the Court. But the FDA found that cigarettes have no therapeutic benefit, and cannot be made safe and effective.
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The dissent made some other pretty good points. First, reading the statute actually drafted by Congress, it seemed to the dissent that cigarettes were included:
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#7 |
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god
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,691
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Re: Why didn't the FDA say anything about cigarettes being spiked to cause addiction?
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__________________
"The history of science is the record of dead religions" Phrases And Philosophies For The Use Of The Young Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) Our Guarentee: One obscure (or not) Python reference per day. |
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#8 |
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Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,824
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Were any tobacco companies involved in that legal process? |
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#9 |
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Wag
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 2,761
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Isn't tobacco a plant? I know that in Canada a lot of government money (read - yours and mine if you're Canadian) went into agricultural research on tobacco. IIRC back in the 50's and 60's, the tobacco plant was bred to produce more nicotine. I'm sure something similar was happening here, in the good ole USA.
Charlie (excuse me while I put my tinfoil hat on) Monoxide Full Disclosure: I never smoked (tobacco that is), but I am invested in the Vice Fund. |
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Major General Wag of JREF |
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#10 |
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Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Chicago, Chicago... it's a toddling town.
Posts: 5,463
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__________________
You claimed that a turd is a turd. I clearly demonstrated that some turds are gold. You're wrong, Jocko. KOA proving me "wrong." |
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#11 |
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by Charles M. Schulz
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 15,990
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Re: Why didn't the FDA say anything about cigarettes being spiked to cause addiction?
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When someone takes a drug by inhaling, they have a much greater ability to control the dose than if a drug is swallowed or injected. Nicotine, through smoking, is slowly introduced into the bloodstream and the addict smokes as much as he needs to get his fix...and no more. The extra nicotine came about when cigarette manufacturers were working to make their cigarettes as safe as possible, through low tar, extra filters, etc. If there is a greater amount of nicotine in a cigarette, it does not make the cigarette more addictive (anyone with any knowledge of addiction would laugh at that idea). What it does mean is that someone doesn't have to smoke as many cigarettes to get their fix. So, a smoker might only have to smoke two cigarettes in a smoke break instead of three, for example. They're getting the same amount of nicotine, but they're getting less of the tar and other chemicals in the cigarette which can be very harmful to one's health. The extra nicotine in cigarettes MADE THEM SAFER. This is about stuffing government coffers and scoring political points with bad science. Nothing else. It CERTAINLY isn't about the health and well-being of smokers. |
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"James Randi is awesome!" —Ian Bernard, primary host of Free Talk Live "It really does take people like Penn & Teller or James Randi to be able to see through these deceptions, and so those are perhaps the people we should be paying the most attention to." —Harry Browne, 4/10/2004 I know there is a lesson to be learned here somewhere, but I don't know what it is. |
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#12 |
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 30,112
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Re: Re: Why didn't the FDA say anything about cigarettes being spiked to cause addict
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One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin. |
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#13 |
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by Charles M. Schulz
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 15,990
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Re: Re: Re: Why didn't the FDA say anything about cigarettes being spiked to cause ad
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__________________
"James Randi is awesome!" —Ian Bernard, primary host of Free Talk Live "It really does take people like Penn & Teller or James Randi to be able to see through these deceptions, and so those are perhaps the people we should be paying the most attention to." —Harry Browne, 4/10/2004 I know there is a lesson to be learned here somewhere, but I don't know what it is. |
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#14 |
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Critical Thinker
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: North Pole/Hell
Posts: 355
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Why didn't the FDA say anything about cigarettes being spiked to cause ad
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Am I way off base here? Maybe I am. Someone feel free to put in my place if I am wrong. Looking for naughty and nice people, Santa |
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Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a day; Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life. "You truly are the devil." -Fowlsound |
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#15 |
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by Charles M. Schulz
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 15,990
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why didn't the FDA say anything about cigarettes being spiked to
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"James Randi is awesome!" —Ian Bernard, primary host of Free Talk Live "It really does take people like Penn & Teller or James Randi to be able to see through these deceptions, and so those are perhaps the people we should be paying the most attention to." —Harry Browne, 4/10/2004 I know there is a lesson to be learned here somewhere, but I don't know what it is. |
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#16 |
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Suspended
Join Date: May 2003
Location: South of Heaven
Posts: 343
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I'm by no means an addiction expert here but why would Tobacco companies do something that in theory is suppossed to cause people to buy less of their product? These people are as dirty and underhanded as it gets, so it's not like they give a rats ass about the health of the people taking their product.
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#17 |
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Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Under the Starry, Starry Night
Posts: 1,837
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I've been a smoker for nearly 25 years, so I'll weigh in here.
You're both right. Each smoker has an "optimum" nicotine level, and will stop smoking when that level is reached. But, most smokers will finish a cigarette they've already lit, will smoke if someone else is smoking, will smoke after a meal or a snack...and will smoke at the slightest hint of stress; even if they've already reached their optimum level. And the next day, they're optimum level will be just a tiny bit highter. Every "extra" cigarette causes the bar to raise for the next week or longer. So, they slowly raise the bar. It may take years to escalate from ten cigarettes a day to 20 or more, but it will slowly happen. And if the cigarettes also have an escalating amount of nicotine, then it becomes harder and harder to revert to an earlier level. If a person starts out smoking "light" cigarettes, and finds themselves smoking two packs every day, they'll move up to regular strength cigarettes, and smoke one pack every day...for awhile. Then, it will be a pack and a half, then finally two packs again. So far as the hospital, it seems like they could've found someone to take him outside. Even the most die-hard smoker can handle having to cut back to three or four a day; but even the most casual smoker panics at the prospect of not being able to smoke at all. |
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It's NOT denial. I'm just very selective about the reality I accept. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes) The Gweat and Tewwible Winged One
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#18 |
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by Charles M. Schulz
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 15,990
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"James Randi is awesome!" —Ian Bernard, primary host of Free Talk Live "It really does take people like Penn & Teller or James Randi to be able to see through these deceptions, and so those are perhaps the people we should be paying the most attention to." —Harry Browne, 4/10/2004 I know there is a lesson to be learned here somewhere, but I don't know what it is. |
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526a0118ae8c43594f3cfdcabb3274ed
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,319
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#20 |
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by Charles M. Schulz
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 15,990
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__________________
"James Randi is awesome!" —Ian Bernard, primary host of Free Talk Live "It really does take people like Penn & Teller or James Randi to be able to see through these deceptions, and so those are perhaps the people we should be paying the most attention to." —Harry Browne, 4/10/2004 I know there is a lesson to be learned here somewhere, but I don't know what it is. |
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#21 |
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by Charles M. Schulz
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 15,990
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__________________
"James Randi is awesome!" —Ian Bernard, primary host of Free Talk Live "It really does take people like Penn & Teller or James Randi to be able to see through these deceptions, and so those are perhaps the people we should be paying the most attention to." —Harry Browne, 4/10/2004 I know there is a lesson to be learned here somewhere, but I don't know what it is. |
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#22 |
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Suspended
Join Date: May 2003
Location: South of Heaven
Posts: 343
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I never said they should be illegal or anything. I'm not biased, anybody with a brain knows these companies are sleazy. I'm just saying lets not pretend they are trying to help anyone. No they don't have to help anyone, but again lets not act like they are trying to.
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#23 |
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NWO Master Conspirator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Albany Park, Chicago
Posts: 49,135
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I just don't want an unelected, unaccountable government agency having the power to essentially outlaw (and let's face it, to require a "safe" cigarette means no cigarette) an otherwise legal product. If Congress wants to do it, fine. But don't delegate such authority to the FDA. That the Supreme Court had to decide whether or not Congress intended to have the FDA regulate tobacco is patently ridiculous. Congress isn't dead! If that's what they wanted, they sure as hell can say so. My $.02
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#24 |
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526a0118ae8c43594f3cfdcabb3274ed
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,319
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Only slightly off topic...
Do you know what North Carolina did with some of the money they got from the settlement with the tobacco companies? They are giving it to...TOBACCO FARMERS!!! Now here is the kicker...do you know WHY they are doing this? Because...less people are smoking!!! So the tobacco farmers are getting hit. So NC (and other states) sues the tobacco companies...because they (the states) say tobacco is bad, and they want people to smoke less. They get a huge settlement. And since people are smoking less...they pay tobacco farmers to help make up the difference! WTF??!?!? Make up your minds!!! Do you want people to smoke less, or not? And some of my more pro-government friends can't figure out why I have lost all faith (never had much to begin with) in government... |
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#25 |
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post-pre-born
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 16,367
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Re: Re: Why didn't the FDA say anything about cigarettes being spiked to cause addiction?
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this
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#26 |
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Critical Thinker
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: North Pole/Hell
Posts: 355
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Now if you wish you argue that the FDA should not have such jurisdiction in the first place; that is an entirely different argument. Spreading good tidings and evil, Santa |
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Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a day; Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life. "You truly are the devil." -Fowlsound |
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#27 |
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NWO Master Conspirator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Albany Park, Chicago
Posts: 49,135
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The whole push to get the FDA to "regulate" tobacco is to get them to do something that Congress will not, ban tobacco. |
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#28 |
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Critical Thinker
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: North Pole/Hell
Posts: 355
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If I am wrong here and there are indeed items immune to the authority of the FDA, when normally they should fall under its guidelines, please point to the proper references. I would be very interested in finding out. Almost to 50 posts so I can use my avatar, Santa |
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Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a day; Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life. "You truly are the devil." -Fowlsound |
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#29 |
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by Charles M. Schulz
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 15,990
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__________________
"James Randi is awesome!" —Ian Bernard, primary host of Free Talk Live "It really does take people like Penn & Teller or James Randi to be able to see through these deceptions, and so those are perhaps the people we should be paying the most attention to." —Harry Browne, 4/10/2004 I know there is a lesson to be learned here somewhere, but I don't know what it is. |
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#30 |
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by Charles M. Schulz
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 15,990
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__________________
"James Randi is awesome!" —Ian Bernard, primary host of Free Talk Live "It really does take people like Penn & Teller or James Randi to be able to see through these deceptions, and so those are perhaps the people we should be paying the most attention to." —Harry Browne, 4/10/2004 I know there is a lesson to be learned here somewhere, but I don't know what it is. |
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#31 |
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by Charles M. Schulz
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 15,990
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Re: Re: Re: Why didn't the FDA say anything about cigarettes being spiked to cause ad
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__________________
"James Randi is awesome!" —Ian Bernard, primary host of Free Talk Live "It really does take people like Penn & Teller or James Randi to be able to see through these deceptions, and so those are perhaps the people we should be paying the most attention to." —Harry Browne, 4/10/2004 I know there is a lesson to be learned here somewhere, but I don't know what it is. |
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#32 |
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NWO Master Conspirator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Albany Park, Chicago
Posts: 49,135
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![]() eta: Now as my neurons start to awake, I think that the FDA exemptions have to do w/ labeling, and claims made on the labels, which is why you see some very odd claims made on labels of epsom salts,for example. |
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#33 |
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526a0118ae8c43594f3cfdcabb3274ed
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,319
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![]() Why would I expect anything else of government?
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#34 |
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by Charles M. Schulz
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 15,990
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__________________
"James Randi is awesome!" —Ian Bernard, primary host of Free Talk Live "It really does take people like Penn & Teller or James Randi to be able to see through these deceptions, and so those are perhaps the people we should be paying the most attention to." —Harry Browne, 4/10/2004 I know there is a lesson to be learned here somewhere, but I don't know what it is. |
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#35 |
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Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The White Zone
Posts: 42,278
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If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him. |
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#36 |
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Suspended
Join Date: May 2003
Location: South of Heaven
Posts: 343
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If you're suicidal and I offer to sell a bullet to your head am I helping you by giving you want you want at an agreeable price? They aren't making safer ciggarettes. They are trying to get people more addicted so they buy more. I'm not saying it should be illegal or anything but lets just call a spade a spade here. |
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#37 |
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by Charles M. Schulz
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 15,990
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This is a conspiracy theory, nothing more. |
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"James Randi is awesome!" —Ian Bernard, primary host of Free Talk Live "It really does take people like Penn & Teller or James Randi to be able to see through these deceptions, and so those are perhaps the people we should be paying the most attention to." —Harry Browne, 4/10/2004 I know there is a lesson to be learned here somewhere, but I don't know what it is. |
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#38 |
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Suspended
Join Date: May 2003
Location: South of Heaven
Posts: 343
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What do you mean no evidence? They are putting more of an addictive substance into their product. What kind of retarded logic is they already have enough customers? What company wouldn't want more customers? Or their existing ones to buy more of their product? That makes no sense. |
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#39 |
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by Charles M. Schulz
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 15,990
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What would they have profited if they take measures to try and gain more business if they would lose the extra money gained to bad publicity and lawsuits? |
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"James Randi is awesome!" —Ian Bernard, primary host of Free Talk Live "It really does take people like Penn & Teller or James Randi to be able to see through these deceptions, and so those are perhaps the people we should be paying the most attention to." —Harry Browne, 4/10/2004 I know there is a lesson to be learned here somewhere, but I don't know what it is. |
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#40 |
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Suspended
Join Date: May 2003
Location: South of Heaven
Posts: 343
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Earlier you said they were putting more nicotine in only you claim to make them safer. As for more business, they'll always want more business. Many companies will go ahead and do something knowing full well they will get sued because the extra money will be worth it even factoring in litigation over it.
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